Why Are Large Maps Unpopular?

[GODOFWAR15 95]

i don't play big maps cause

 

 

I Lag a lot there :ph34r:

 

 

[ThouShallNot 963]

Big maps have low fps and lag.

[GODOFWAR15 95]

Big maps have low fps and lag.

exactly for slow internet connection it lags a ton if my internet speed was good i would play them

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

Big maps have low fps and lag.

I agree, we need to take this huge fact into consideration when discussing the topic of map popularity. I personally would love to play on even bigger maps then we currently have but lag becomes too great. I have also noticed that the number of players has a large impact on lag. Just because the map is bigger, it doesn't mean we need 20 players per team. So maybe larger maps but the same number of players. Sounds like fun to me.

[FaaiqBilal1 795]

This would truly be awesome if the developers implement it. You are correct about the current system encouraging smaller maps instead of larger maps. I played a full Brest battle today, it was really fun but not nearly as rewarding as another Noise battle was. 

[eminem9870 605]

I love maps like barda and kunger, but no on ever plays on em :(

[ariking777 940]

Great idea, and it's a shame that Tanki Developers didn't implement this idea the moment you wrote it - and afterwards they should have come especially to your house (wherever you live :D) and bowed you ;) Though I don't think I can easily wean from the popular maps (e.g. Serpuhov, Polygon, Silence).

[ariking777 940]

Great idea, and it's a shame that Tanki Developers didn't implement this idea the moment you wrote it - and afterwards they should have come especially to your house (wherever you live  :D) and bowed you  ;) Though I don't think I can easily wean from the popular maps (e.g. Serpuhov, Polygon, Silence).

 

I love maps like barda and kunger, but no on ever plays on em :(

Kungur is actually not so unpopular, but Barda battles are extremely rare on those ranks - and I can understand why. It's just an annoying map to play when above 3rd Lieutenant rank at the very least :)

[Hex 11,520]

Disagreed.

First of all, big (huge) maps such as Magistral, Berlin, lag, have low FPS and high PING. Which is an extremely bad situation for a game like Tanki.

Secondly,

Your reasoning that large maps get less fund because of the size is wrong. There are more players, so more deaths are happening all the time, which means bigger funds. The reason that large maps get lower funds is usually because they aren't full. 

Third, last but not least, bigger maps will never become popular, and smaller-medium maps will always be popular. Because just see, everytime I log into my lobby, Polygon, Silence, Superhov, Island and Sandbox dominate the battle choices.

[Vikingsrallentando 3,058]

I really don't understand any of you.

In my mind Tanki should worry about how much, players like to play Tanki, not how many maps do they enjoy or worry why certain maps are not played much... If people don't like maps, they will complain and ask for more maps. If people don't complain about maps why Tanki bothers?

SO here is a poorly described annalogy for this; Say that Tanki is a ski resort and the maps are a cross country trails. This is a pretty big resort and has a dozen trails. 6 of which are the most popular, 4 are used occasionally, and 2 are not at all. Sizable amounts of land are given a monetary value. Those two runs are in a desirable location. That land that is not being used for its purpose is a waste and the resort loses out on potential revenue.

 

Basically suggesting that if the maps had a specific $ value placed upon them, whether you base it on quality, size, or popularity (or even all three), there is potential loss having there be little to no influence from the marketing.

If you base it on popularity, Silence wouldn't be worth much wheras Dusseldorf's value would be high. This is more directed towards the devs, as the potential is their loss.

 

I also think someone would be more likely to develop disatisfaction, or reduced utility in the game from playing the same 20 maps month to month compared to someone who varies the size and complexity of map they play on... So it can trickle down to players like of the game. Players that have given up simply cannot bother with complain about this aspect of the game. Everyone else just doesn't recognize it as a problem.

[1stsuperwhitedragon 408]

Because we lag a lot when there's too many players... -_-

[creeperskelly 1,281]

Large maps suck because:

 

1. Too many fatal errors - the developers won't fix this, so, who wants to play a map that constantly requires you to press F5 all the time due to it crashing?

2. When they took the "shake" away from shaft it makes it far too easy for a few shafts to park in a few places, drug, and pick people off trying to get across. So why bother? It's not fun.

3. Railgun reloads faster now so, again, a few people parked with rail and shaft make crossing the maps impossible.

 

Combine all three and that is why large maps are rarely in use now.

 

(The stupid thing is that in a typical 15 minute round about 10MB of data is passed from the Tanki servers to your computer - so if you can play small maps then the large maps don't require any more data to be passed back and forth - so really it comes down to poor programming as to why the fatal errors become a bigger problem as more people join the large maps).

 

Shaft is too precise now. Large maps will never be fun unless shaft is reverted back to having some shake while in zoom.

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

There are a lot of factors that can be considered in this discussion. I am going to summarize the ones I'm thinking about. Many points have been mentioned, by other players already, but bare repeating.

 

LAG: 

The larger the map, the more players that are allowed. It isn't the size of the map or the number of players alone that cause the problem. It's a combination of the two. I can play a small map with 20 total players without any issues but I start to have issues with 16 and up on the large maps.  Keeping track of 20 players in a 3D world requires a lot of processing power and data transfer. The map itself requires processing and data transfer so the larger the map the more power and data are required. When you add the map plus players you quickly start to reach a limit. So depending on internet connections between player and server, one individuals limit may be reached before someone else's. The game's programming must wait for all information to be updated before it can continue, many many times per second, so while the program has to wait for information to travel, we end up with a lag.

 

 

Preferred playing style:

Death Match is it's own style and I will only be discussing team based play.

Smaller maps tend to be faster paced and don't all ways require one to do a lot of thinking. Larger maps require more thought before you just run off towards the enemy base and many players don't want to do that. Smaller maps are more of a "run and gun" style of play. Where as larger maps require a more strategic based style of play. 

 

Teams:

Larger maps attract the long range weapons which also have a lot of power. The problem is that because the maps are larger you need to have lighter, faster hulls to get from one spot to another, in a timely fashion. Unfortunately, these also get taken out very quickly by the more powerful long range weapons. Because of this, larger maps are better played with teams. A well organized team will do really good on larger maps, especially against a bunch of random players. Getting a large enough team together to play larger maps is a lot harder then for smaller maps. When you add all this together, many players just don't want to play larger maps especially without trusted team mates. A "lone wolf" player will find him/herself very overwhelmed in larger maps.

 

Battle Funds: 

As @PuncherTank has explained, the reward for playing larger maps tends to be much lower for the amount of time spent. One reason is that the over all kill rate, and flag capture rate is much lower. Therefore the battle fund will be much lower. Many players don't care about a good match, they only want crystals and the most profitable maps are small maps with a higher concentration of players. So increasing battle funds on larger maps is a great idea.

 

Map Design:

When you look at the items above, larger maps could be designed a little differently. The problem of long range weapon domination could be decreased by removing large open areas and increasing the amount of trenches and cover. You still need some good long range shot locations but they need to be limited. With more areas for cover, lighter hulls will stand a better chance of survival. You could include isolated areas where players that prefer "run and gun", close combat would encounter each other but out of site of long range guns. Another idea could be to include 2 flag posts per team. 

 

 

Lets just hope that the change to Unity will see some of these thing being considered and some of the popularity of larger maps increased.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

The way to solve long range domination of shaft and rail is to have items that block their range. Tall buildings in the middle of the map, a forest, etc. Or do away with the cliffs that exist on maps such as Lost Temple. There is too much space near the flag base and it only takes 3-4 shafts parked there drugging to keep the area below protected. Block these areas and the dynamics would change and allow people to get further across the map.

 

When shaft was unstable while zoomed the problem was much less severe. Now it's just too stupidly accurate.

[PuncherTank 37]

There are a lot of factors that can be considered in this discussion.

 

Indeed, there are a lot of "core" problems in this game that should've been dealt with a long time ago. Unfortunately, the developers are either putting off tackling these issues or completely ignoring them hoping things will just work out somehow. I don't really know what or how they're thinking!

 

As for some of the other reasons that make large maps unfavorable;

 

Lag/Fatal Error: These are serious issues, especially the Fatal Error thing. Sometimes, I get too many errors on a full large map like Dusseldorf that make it impossible to play. I also struggle sometimes with low FPS/high ping but generally this is not an issue for me.

Not everyone may be technically able to play on large maps, and for those I say: don't play on large maps! I'm not suggesting that small maps be removed!

Another thing, I've noticed that the Fatal Error becomes too frequent when there are more than 15 players on each side. I suggest that the current limits on player count for large maps be revised, so that each side in team battles would not have more than 15 players on any map. I wonder if this will make certain large maps like Dusseldorf and Berlin more playable?

 

Team Work: I'm a single player myself and I don't want to join any clan. I like playing alone, and I believe most players here are also lone players. Team battles can very often be frustrating unless you get lucky joining the right team. For this, I suggested a fairer way to distribute funds so you'll always get adequately rewarded for your efforts whether your team wins or you end up with a team of losers.

 

Sniper Domination: Well, if shafts dominate on large maps why don't you get a shaft and "dominate" yourself? Some players just want to play with one combo and with the same strategy on ALL maps. Well, it doesn't work this way! You need to find the right combo depending on what the enemy team are using. For example, on a map like Highways where shafts usually "dominate" I can use my mammoth+shaft+jade and take on 3 enemy shafts at the same time, and if I'm drugging and have an isida nearby I'll park in the open and take it all! It may take them forever to kill me. You see, this way all/most the enemy shafts will be busy trying to kill me, thus distracting their attention from my other teammates who can sneak into the enemy base. If the enemy has several shafts and you are a sucker isida with hornet don't dash into the open and cry about shafts! I've seen many such losers! Also, on large maps you don't need to capture 40 flags in 30 minutes - maybe only 1 or 2 flags would be enough to win a 30 minute match.

 

Now, anyone else wants to say that large maps are unpopular because of lags/low FPS/high ping? I don't think we get this yet!

[hansn12 371]

I lage alot there so thats why i dont play in big maps

[Strawwitz 86]

The way to solve long range domination of shaft and rail is to have items that block their range. 

 

The way to solve long range shaft and rail domination is to restore Vulcan's long range damage, and listen to those spoiled babies cry again.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

I started up some of the rare maps tonight and nobody stayed beyond 2-3 rounds. :angry:

[genak138 950]

I don't get why people are complaining about long-range weapons dominating in large maps. Short-range weapons dominate in small maps after all.

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

The way to solve long range shaft and rail domination is to restore Vulcan's long range damage, and listen to those spoiled babies cry again.

That doesn't solve anything it only adds to the problem. Besides vulcan is long range.

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

I don't get why people are complaining about long-range weapons dominating in large maps. Short-range weapons dominate in small maps after all.

True, but the difference is that distance you need to travel to cap flags is longer so it becomes more annoying to get all the way there only to get killed and respawn all the way back at the start.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

The Vulcan is just plain annoying. The fact that it locks in on you regardless of speed is even more annoying. Thankfully it is rather rare.

[RustyNail 1,538]

SO here is a poorly described annalogy for this; Say that Tanki is a ski resort and the maps are a cross country trails. This is a pretty big resort and has a dozen trails. 6 of which are the most popular, 4 are used occasionally, and 2 are not at all. Sizable amounts of land are given a monetary value. Those two runs are in a desirable location. That land that is not being used for its purpose is a waste and the resort loses out on potential revenue.

 

Basically suggesting that if the maps had a specific $ value placed upon them, whether you base it on quality, size, or popularity (or even all three), there is potential loss having there be little to no influence from the marketing.

If you base it on popularity, Silence wouldn't be worth much wheras Dusseldorf's value would be high. This is more directed towards the devs, as the potential is their loss.

 

I also think someone would be more likely to develop disatisfaction, or reduced utility in the game from playing the same 20 maps month to month compared to someone who varies the size and complexity of map they play on... So it can trickle down to players like of the game. Players that have given up simply cannot bother with complain about this aspect of the game. Everyone else just doesn't recognize it as a problem.

 

That, is a non relevant analogy. :mellow:

Maps cost nothing but time to developers. They don't cost money, they don't exist if not chosen. They don't acquire space (limiting thus the space available to players). Therefore, they can't be potential loss.

 

The only potential worry from Devs is that maybe, players playing only a small portion of maps will get bored and leave without trying anything new. But there's an easy solution for this case. Every day servers create 6 battles, 2 small, 2 medium and 2 large, unpopular maps, random TDM or DM or CTF or CP. These battles won't go away if nobody plays, but remain open all day. Furthermore, increased funds or gold boxes will apply to these battles. Piece of cake. B)

 

As for getting bored after playing all the time the same map, well, after more of 8 months of non stop Serpuhov, it's still my 80% played map ;)  Other are the real issues that can cause a player to walk away from Tanki, but it's more than clear that Administration couldn't care less. <_< 

[creeperskelly 1,281]

Large maps are also the bane of druggers since it takes so long to cross from one base to another.

[Indra_Otsutsuki 329]

This idea is ingenious I love big maps there so spacious and this is a great way to lure people to these maps  :D