Review [Issue 34] Recent Update: Has game balance improved?

[C8o 2]

Isida just needs to be used differently, and with a bit more skill. I'm an isida user myself, and it's still very strong, especially with the increased shooting time. If anything it's stronger. Just keep your distance a bit more, it doesn't lose damage with range like the other shot range weapons.

 

 

kirby, have you ever come across the term "a question of taste" ?

This means: different people have different opinions. What one person likes, the other one might not like.

I have already acknowleged that you're fine with using Isida - so please acknowledge that some others are not.

And implying that I just don't have enough skills or I might just be too stupid to use Isida differently, is not very nice.

 

Let me guess, you're still very young. Is that correct, kirby?

Hopefully one day you may understand, that you can argue about a lot of things - but taste is not one of them.

[Pathfinder 1,690]

kirby, have you ever come across the term "a question of taste" ?

This means: different people have different opinions. What one person likes, the other one might not like.

I have already acknowleged that you're fine with using Isida - so please acknowledge that some others are not.

And implying that I just don't have enough skills or I might just be too stupid to use Isida differently, is not very nice.

I never commented on your opinion at all, and as you say, that's mine :) Disagreeing with your opinion is not the same as not acknowledging you might have a different taste.

 

I'm not implying you are not skilled - it does require more skill to use, no? If you wish to take it as a personal dig from me, that's your problem.

 

Let me guess, you're still very young. Is that correct, kirby?

Hopefully one day you may understand, that you can argue about a lot of things - but taste is not one of them.

Thank you for your life lesson, obviously you are older and wiser, and are in a position to talk down on me and lecture me on how I deliver my opinions. As I say, I never commented on others opinions, that right there is simply my take. Edited May 5, 2015 by Pathfinder

[MentallyDeranged 740]

 

 

Railgun

The main change worth mentioning is the reduced reload for this turret

I know i shared these informations in another topic,but worth to mention again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Left: Reload speed  Right: Rotate speed

 

[Pathfinder 1,690]

I know i shared these informations in another topic,but worth to mention again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Left: Reload speed  Right: Rotate speed

 

Wait, what do you mean exactly? Railguns rotation has barely changed :p

[Truthteller 4,204]

As an isida user myself, I agree, and isida has become a much more difficult turret to use at short range. But personally, overall, with the increased range and shooting time, isida has definitely not become weaker. It just needs to be used slightly differently, at a slightly longer range than before, and can take on firebird and freeze easily if you keep range :)

Isida is still strong and has not become weaker by stats, But personally  I think it has become harder to use, So Strongness does not matter.

I saw no reason to make the cone smaller it was okay, not like isida was so OP no one could stop it..

[bajoobajoo1 7]

 

And implying that I just don't have enough skills or I might just be too stupid to use Isida differently, is not very nice.

 

 

Not directed at kirby but it's funny when this happens.

 

 

I saw no reason to make the cone smaller it was okay, not like isida was so OP no one could stop it..

Due to the cone reduction a player several ranks below can kill an isida (especially one with a light hull) without using any great skill. Why should the onus of skill be on the isida player? If the change remains I feel my dear old isida will going into a looong hibernation :(

[r_qw1212qw1 14]

Totally agree with Truthteller.

Now, any enemy, which goes around the obstacle, hides behind some corner or whatever, or just simply moves on slightly layered surface is extremely hard to be killed by isida.

Before, isida was aiming to be as close as possible to enemy, so moving around obstacle or hiding behind the corner does not helped a lot (as well as moving on layered surface), because you were right near an opponent. Now you stay in frustration... You come close - it is extremely hard to focus on enemy, you keep distance - they hide. What about Fire of Freeze as enemy in this case? - just be ready to death.

And I am back to the point, that IMHO it is totally wrong from the side of TO game designers to say to TO players “Isida now “just needs to be used slightly differently”! It is WRONG. People choose turret because they like to use it in specific way.

From the VERY beginning of TO Isida was THE closest range turret of TO. It was melee fighter of TO - have a look on your screenshots. And isida way was: come as close to the enemy as possible and kill them very fast. That's why people were taking isida! They like to fight this way.

And now EVERYTHING is wrong here! EVERYTHING! “Isida now “just needs to be used slightly differently”... I really hate new way of using isida. It is totally other feeling.

BUT it is not the end of story. Let's have a look on Hammer - Hammer is the most effective close range weapon now! Imagine Isida frustration in the face of Hammer...

So, IMHO, everything that was done in the last half year in TO for Isida is wrong. Everything was done in order to make ppl that took isida for close range combat to fall in frustration now.

Dear TO game desingers - THANKS A LOT!

[Pathfinder 1,690]

Totally agree with Truthteller.

Now, any enemy, which goes around the obstacle, hides behind some corner or whatever, or just simply moves on slightly layered surface is extremely hard to be killed by isida.

Before, isida was aiming to be as close as possible to enemy, so moving around obstacle or hiding behind the corner does not helped a lot (as well as moving on layered surface), because you were right near an opponent. Now you stay in frustration... You come close - it is extremely hard to focus on enemy, you keep distance - they hide. What about Fire of Freeze as enemy in this case? - just be ready to death.

And I am back to the point, that IMHO it is totally wrong from the side of TO game designers to say to TO players “Isida now “just needs to be used slightly differently”! It is WRONG. People choose turret because they like to use it in specific way.

From the VERY beginning of TO Isida was THE closest range turret of TO. It was melee fighter of TO - have a look on your screenshots. And isida way was: come as close to the enemy as possible and kill them very fast. That's why people were taking isida! They like to fight this way.

And now EVERYTHING is wrong here! EVERYTHING! “Isida now “just needs to be used slightly differently”... I really hate new way of using isida. It is totally other feeling.

BUT it is not the end of story. Let's have a look on Hammer - Hammer is the most effective close range weapon now! Imagine Isida frustration in the face of Hammer...

So, IMHO, everything that was done in the last half year in TO for Isida is wrong. Everything was done in order to make ppl that took isida for close range combat to fall in frustration now.

Dear TO game desingers - THANKS A LOT!

Can empathise completely, as an isida user. It's a very different turret now than it was before.

 

There are two groups that I can see. Some want things the way they were, the way they thought it was when they decided to purchase it, and I can see why you would be frustrated.

 

However, there are the rest who just adapt to the change. Don't take it offensively when I say it, but it IS a different weapon now and it does require MORE skill to use.

 

Honestly, as a player (im not a developer) i support the changes - Tanki wouldn't be fun without them, and the game wouldn't be dynamic. There's no bias here, I have spent lots of crystals, getting my Isida to M4 in fact, so there is no reason for me to support changes I feel would weaken the weapon. Weapons change their dynamics all the time, and if they were just the same forever... Tanki would get boring.

 

I don't think Isida has got any weaker. At short range its a harder to use, but it has got its extra reload, extra range, and keeps the advantage of not losing damage with range and of course being an extremely versatile weapon. It's changed but I think it's in line with the other turrets in the game.

 

Again, I can empathise that players may be frustrated because they now feel like they paid for something which they didn't want, but maybe we can just adapt and support the developers who keep the game exciting?

Edited May 12, 2015 by Pathfinder

[sudeeprauta 150]

Nice piece of Work

Thumps up  :lol:

[r_qw1212qw1 14]

Well finally you, kirby2008, have said this "It's a very different turret now than it was before.” Look on your initial post in this thread – definitely, you were hiding the truth from the users. It is significantly different from “Isida now “just needs to be used slightly differently”.

 

"Honestly, as a player (im not a developer) i support the changes - Tanki wouldn't be fun without them, and the game wouldn't be dynamic. There's no bias here, I have spent lots of crystals, getting my Isida to M4 in fact, so there is no reason for me to support changes I feel would weaken the weapon. Weapons change their dynamics all the time, and if they were just the same forever... Tanki would get boring." - It is totally biased - you just totally ignored the first group.

 

No, we don't want to adapt - we want to do what we like to do. We will just go and find what we like in other place if TO game designers think that the only point that we should do is to adapt to new changes.

 

FYI: That's what many of my friends has already done (and that’s why the first group do not post a lot here).

Edited May 12, 2015 by r_qw1212qw1

[davidcashler.2016 2]

You should put crystal boxes back in the game.

[davidcashler.2016 2]

I would say that the game balance is improved a bit but the crystals are important to players that need to upgrade hulls and guns. I think crystals should start drooping again.

[Pathfinder 1,690]

Well finally you, kirby2008, have said this "It's a very different turret now than it was before.” Look on your initial post in this thread – definitely, you were hiding the truth from the users. It is significantly different from “Isida now “just needs to be used slightly differently”.[/size]

 

"Honestly, as a player (im not a developer) i support the changes - Tanki wouldn't be fun without them, and the game wouldn't be dynamic. There's no bias here, I have spent lots of crystals, getting my Isida to M4 in fact, so there is no reason for me to support changes I feel would weaken the weapon. Weapons change their dynamics all the time, and if they were just the same forever... Tanki would get boring." - It is totally biased - you just totally ignored the first group.[/size]

 

No, we don't want to adapt - we want to do what we like to do. We will just go and find what we like in other place if TO game designers think that the only point that we should do is to adapt to new changes.[/size]

 

FYI: That's what many of my friends has already done (and that’s why the first group do not post a lot here).[/size]

You're scratching the bottom of the barrel here if you're gonna say that "it's a very different turret now" is significantly different from "it just needs to be used slightly differently". One implies the other, they are perfectly consistent.

 

As regards to your bias question, as I say, there is no reason for me to pretend this is a good update if I don't think it is. I'm under no obligation to support Tanki if I don't believe in the choices the developers make. You cannot say I'm biased because I disagree with the first group, that's opinion not not the fact that I'm biased!

 

Tanki has been changing, the balance has been shifting for a long time now, and im sure you know that as a Commander. For me, as aforementioned, is refreshing and keeps the game exciting. If you don't think so, I can fully understand, I get that isida has become something different than what you paid for it :) Having said that, I can unfortunately only sympathise. Not everyone is going to be happy with any update they make.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Pathfinder

[Pathfinder 1,690]

You should put crystal boxes back in the game.

Tanki have already announced that crystal boxes won't return.

 

The crystals that would have dropped have been added to the battle fund instead, so the same amount of crystals is up for grabs. In fact, since the gold box drop mechanics relies on an increasing fund, you'll find more Gold boxes fall as well.

 

They decided to do this because crystal drops distracted from the nature of the game. Too many players sat just to collect boxes, and did not play for the team.

[Pathfinder 1,690]

Well, it has gotten pretty much weaker. Its cone width has been decreased ridiculously, and most of your charge goes on a waste just by trying to lock your beam on a tank than actually getting to really take anything from your enemies health. Extra range is the only good part of it, but even that is not quite useful because the beam just keeps on jumping from tank to tank. It is definitely not in line with the other turrets in the game ever since this new re-balance. Try to face a Ricochet/Twins without a supply supporting you, and go figure if it really is in line with other turrets. 

 

The game surely gets exciting for the ones whose fav turrets got a buff, but not for the ones who got their favourite weapons nerfed, atleast not this much.

 

Personally, I don't think it's got weaker, but I can see where you're coming from :p it's definitely harder to use, but it's got its increased range, shooting time and still remains a versatile and key team turret :)

 

The problem people have here, is the weapon has changed - I guess players feel cheated that they paid for something for what it was, only for it to be changed.

[r_qw1212qw1 14]

As for me, I've got (almost) no advantage in increased range - come close to opponent was always my strong skill as Isida melee fighter, but definitely players that luck this skill got something. But it is not clear why they took Isida in this case - there are (and were) plenty of middle range weapons in TO. And there are no need to describe us how to use them - we know this! But it is just another story.
Isida become less effective in many typical use cases that it was strong before: layered surfaces, close range battle, near the obstacles. And I want to get Isida melee fighter back!
There are no sense, kirby2008,to point that it becomes harder to use – it just should be used in totally other way.
 
Longer I use Isida, I find it more and more far from what it was before. And now, I fully understand my friends that say: "No, I don't want to come back to TO - it is totally other game that it was before.". And looking back, on my life experience, I found that wrong decisions done by game designers, that just got away something that I like to do, was my primary reason to drop the other games. And looking on TO I am close to this point too. Maybe it is enough, or maybe just one more rebalance this way. Fortunately, it is not a problem - there are many other games that I could look on.

 

With regards to team turret – yes it is the only point that left -  have a look on Dream Team Atra article
http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=254765
… just nothing to add.

 

[r_qw1212qw1 14]

Actually now, I see no sense to take Isida for fight at all - just take Smoky. You will just have no problems with Isida beam lock - so no so sensitive to layered surfaces, obstacles and could shoot on longer range and from other surface level.

So now, kirby2008, after adaptation to new Isida, I think it should be fine for you to fight Smoky. And we will just go and find game that suggest to us something that we like to do, and you could continue to adapt to what is given to you.

 

 

[donut70 97]

"Has game balance improved" .....NOPE

 

(Short form of my reply)

 

The most nerfed gun in the game ,(only counting after the rebalance) smoky , just got nerfed again.

 

Meanwhile, the most buffed gun in the game, Ricochet, just got buffed again.

 

And they claim to be "balancing" the stats? How can anyone in their right mind say that the ricochet is not OP? When the user can hit  more than half the time, it can literally beat anything* you throw against it. If you want proof just ask my friend about his alt rico account called ricosuks , (his intent with making the account was to show how OPed it was when a skilled player ,{who turns their turret and almost never misses [just like most smokies] } was the one using it).

 

* except for another ricochet of equal or greater skill

Edited May 13, 2015 by donut70

[UnKnOwN_O.o 3]

now i love thunder!

[r_qw1212qw1 14]

Yeap, I have feeling, that I should say this: Isida fighter is dead – it is result of half year “rebalancing” of TO.

There are more effective weapons on close range: Hammer, Firebird, Freeze, ...

And there are more effective weapons on middle range: Ricochet, Smoky, ...

As result of all these rebalancing Isida become less effective in many typical use cases that it was strong before: layered surfaces, close range battle, near the obstacles. It is not just become “harder to use” – there are just more effective weapons that could be used instead (and that will kill Isida).

That’s it.

 

But what makes me sad, is that all these people marked as “press”, “experts” etc., where carefully hiding this info from all ppl, just in order to force users through all these “rebalancing”.

[altitude96 70]

Getting sick of being one shot by OP M3 Thunders:/

[RustyNail 1,538]

 

 

 

 

Ok, unfortunately, I think my post will be just vanished, but I do want to write what happens with this rebalance.

.

I have feeling that TO game designers really do not care about players and just want to get to some World that they like (with bright great balance according to the design rules). I know A LOT good players that do not want come back to TO after this rebalance. Nothing can force them to come back.

So what was driving our TO game designers:

There are many people that play light hulls – it looks like light hulls are too good – let’s make rebalance! Let’s make them much worth! – Let’s increase HP of big hulls (yes people like increase in HP, so it should go fine). But it is not the end of story! Let’s make all weapons stronger (yes people like increase in DPS, so it should go fine)! So, as result light hulls now become dead muuuch faster!!! Great rebalance! Try to play wasp now! All wasp players become really sad! Really!

Dear TO game designers, it is not rebalance at all. A lot of people play light hulls just because they LIKE to run! Not because it is super power, but because they like to do this! They just can’t stand on one place! You can’t force people to stop like to run, but you definitely could make people to hate TO! Well done dear designers! Well done!

.

So, it is sad story on light hulls, when some people think that statistics could say something about balance….

.

Weapons. I really like the last post… Let’s have a look on isida for example. In order to shoot by isida you should lock on a target. How you could lock something NOW? When everybody run and ALL maps are layered! Now players just can’t heal or shoot opponent that are on other layer! At ALL!!! You just can’t lock isida on him. There are maps where isida is just totally useless now. It is not like any other shoot weapon that you could force to shoot up or down… it does not shoot – you need to lock! And you just can’t! So quote from prev post “I want to get back my old cone angle”. Terrible change.

But it is not the end of story. In all these changes, there were carefully hidden the main change! Isida ALWAYS was THE most close range weapon! Right? So people choose this weapon because they LIKE close range combat! But it is not the case now! I just cry here… Now isida is middle range weapon! Because firebird and freeze are now close range weapon! Firebird and freeze just kill isida in close range combat sooo easily now…. Again, you can’t change what people like to do, but you definitely could make people to hate TO. I am sure all isida players are in frustration now.

And a few words aside: do you think that Hummer, Vulcan and Rick are more balanced now – try to kill them with isida on some light hulls. Just try… Actually, the same problem is present for twinse, but it was true forever. But now we have 4 weapons where isida is useless.

Well, IMHO, it is terrible rebalance that just goes against what people LIKE in the world that TO game designers want to see. End of story.

 

 

 

 

Wow, I am impressed my post is still here and even somebody read it! Great news!
I want to add a few points:
My main point was: IMHO it is totally wrong from the side of TO game designers to say to TO players “Isida now “just needs to be used slightly differently”! It is WRONG. People choose turret because they like to use it in specific way. If I want something else, I choose other turret of OTHER game. You can’t force people to like something else. And you could clearly see this in post of C8o. It is hard to relearn how to use your turret in new way. It is harder than to learn how to use it from the beginning! That’s why a lot of old players now hate TO. They do not LIKE “slightly differently” style.
I have took isida just as example. I could write similar story about other weapons… But I strongly disagree with statement “isida has definitely not become weaker”. It does! For sure! And in order to understand this, I recommend to try it on some layered map – try this – and come back.
And I see no comments on changing isida from the closest range weapon to middle range. Or, no, there is – “Isida now “just needs to be used slightly differently”  .
But there are no comments on how to fight with isida vs Hummer, Vulcan, Rick and Twinse…… And why TO game designers try to kill light hulls.

 

You are both right and wrong.

You are right in that Devs want to "kill" light tanks and that's why they made them weaker and less effective in standard battles. Maybe because they wanted to sell more medium / heavy hulls, or maybe because they wanted to lessen the bandwidth consumed by rapid movement (made most by light hulls), who knows and who cares... it was low and shortsighted policy but we can't do anything about it (other than complain or leave the game).

 

They (Devs) also twist the game balance often (give a little more power here, nerf another item there, etc) so that players have to every now and then buy more items (hulls, turrets, paints).

That too is a little bit low, but what can one do other than complain or leave the game....

 

However, you are wrong (from one aspect only though) in that isida had been nerfed. It has changed. Pretty much the way Thunder has changed also. Or the shaft before that.

In all three cases, the turrets became more difficult to use, but once one can adjust to the change, they became stronger.

For me personally, as a more or less railgunner, isida now is more dangerous. And two isidas working together are deadly combination in urban combat (I was going to say in close combat, but the truth is that even in medium distance combat if buildings or rocks make the use of long range turrets ineffective, then isida is pretty strong)

[Jboymark53 508]

Good article!

But thunder and ricochet are way OP, the developers should decrease a little of their stats.  

[RustyNail 1,538]

Can empathise completely, as an isida user. It's a very different turret now than it was before.

 

There are two groups that I can see. Some want things the way they were, the way they thought it was when they decided to purchase it, and I can see why you would be frustrated.

 

However, there are the rest who just adapt to the change. Don't take it offensively when I say it, but it IS a different weapon now and it does require MORE skill to use.

 

Honestly, as a player (im not a developer) i support the changes - Tanki wouldn't be fun without them, and the game wouldn't be dynamic. There's no bias here, I have spent lots of crystals, getting my Isida to M4 in fact, so there is no reason for me to support changes I feel would weaken the weapon. Weapons change their dynamics all the time, and if they were just the same forever... Tanki would get boring.

 

I don't think Isida has got any weaker. At short range its a harder to use, but it has got its extra reload, extra range, and keeps the advantage of not losing damage with range and of course being an extremely versatile weapon. It's changed but I think it's in line with the other turrets in the game.

 

Again, I can empathise that players may be frustrated because they now feel like they paid for something which they didn't want, but maybe we can just adapt and support the developers who keep the game exciting?

May I say, that both of you are right but each one is more right in one's own rank?

As I have to deal with top ranks now and thus isidas I battle belong to top ranks like you, I can say that is harder to use, however, since most generalissimos are good players, isida in your rank is a serius opponent.

I guess in lower ranks, where the percentage of good players (skilled I mean) is lower, isida's users are somehow in a disadvantage in relation to other turrets users. Which is what Truthteller and qw1212qw are saying, more or less. Something kinda like isida users are punished in lower ranks.

 

Probably Devs had mostly high ranks in mind when they were deciding those updates. Or hammer, to be completely frank.