Drugs - relativize their power

[Rohrmeister 1,536]

I made the proposals below at some other point in the forum and was asked to place them here for discussion.

 

There are issues with drug abuse in this game. The usual drugger tactic is simple "drugs on, cap flag, drive home, heal, continue drive home and deliver flag". This makes the game boring.

 

 

Inspired by some post Hazel gave some time ago, I thought about ways to

• keep drugs as a powerfull, temporary tactical measure
• while giving some advantage back to the oponents as well.

 

See the ideas below straight away.. or read some explainations and background info in the spoiler.

The ideas are open for discussion here.

 

cya, Rohr'

 

 

 

 

 

Hazels post lead me to a video about "counter play" (link). Idea: if your enemy receives some great amount of power by something... you as the victim should be offered some advantage too (like a tactical advantage, a new possibility to act, a goodie, ..- watch the video for more)
 
( + ) Tanki follows that idea at:

• Balancing damage / reload time / range / special abilities / hull parameters,
  like for each and every turret/hull there exist at least one counter tactic or disadvantage.
  (Ricos & Thunders self damage, Snipers laser and limited view, firebird range, ..)

( - ) Tanki follows that idea not at all when it comes to

• [drug abusing people] -vs- [non buyers]

Examples how this could effect drugs can be found below

 

 

Examples, working by power and devastation:

• a double-damage user receives 5..10% of dealt damage as self damage by each shot he makes (turret overheat)
• a tank using DA offers to each and every weapon shooting at it the chance of a critical damamge hit (bypassing DA erffect and so dealing 100% damage and not 50% damage). Visible by smokey critical damage effect.
• Or if both - DD and Nitro - would lead to burning damage from an overheated turret or engine

Examples, working by tactical advantages:

• when you are on double Armour, a health pack restores only 50% of your health
• using DD or Nitro for some time makes your tank overheat and glow.. revealing your position on the battlefield
• hitting a tank infront of you by using DD makes the explosion so powerfull, that it inflicts self damage to you
• double armour makes your tank heavier and therefor a little slower (80% if inital speed, use nitro to compensate)
• double armour stores heat energy and therefor the freeze and afterburn effect last more longer
• Tanks on Nitro drive at 130% of their initial speed. After the Nitro is over they should run at 80% of their initial speed due to a required engine cooldown. Timing should ensure that this is not instantly recompensatable by another nitro.

 
I think some of the proposals above could lead drugs to be used more as tactical spice instead of continousl tank-power-multiplyer.
 
And still it has to be handled with care, if drugs are the main source of income for the game.
 
ps: all figures and ideas are ment as inspiration to the community as well as to the devs, and shall not be considered as finall thought through ;)

[Remaine 4,687]

relativate - what a word!

[Rohrmeister 1,536]

I just checked the dictionary... it should read "relativize"

*kindly asking a moderator to change it :p *

[Maf 32,337]

Title edited.

 

 

Examples, working by tactical advantages:

• when you are on double Armour, a health pack restores only 50% of your health
• using DD or Nitro for some time makes your tank overheat and glow.. revealing your position on the battlefield
• hitting a tank infront of you by using DD makes the explosion so powerfull, that it inflicts self damage to you
• double armour makes your tank heavier and therefor a little slower (80% if inital speed, use nitro to compensate)
• double armour stores heat energy and therefor the freeze and afterburn effect last more longer
• Tanks on Nitro drive at 130% of their initial speed. After the Nitro is over they should run at 80% of their initial speed due to a required engine cooldown. Timing should ensure that this is not instantly recompensatable by another nitro.

Druggers will have all of these things and many reliable buyers may even leave the game because of it. In my opinion any kind of change to supplies should not have negative effect on the players using supplies. Instead, I think I have a better idea to help non-druggers fight against players with supplies.

 

Well, it would be interesting to have a chance of supplies appearing in place of a destroyed tank. Let's say for every supply the tank has activated in it's current lifetime there is a 10% of it appearing when the tank is destroyed.

For example a player used 2 repair kits, 1 DA, 1 DD, 2 Nitro and 3 mines and then got killed. In the spot where he died there will be a:

• 20% chance of a nitro appearing
• 10% chance of DA or DD
• 20% chance of Repair kit
• Total chance of 40% that at least one supply will appear
• 0.04% chance that all four will appear
• Mines are ignored.
• Each supply from a destroyed tank will be activated immediately and will last 25-30 seconds

That way there will be more incentive and more reward for killing a tank with supplies activated, which also means that (hopefully) there will be less people complaining about druggers. This addition would also bring a whole new set of tactics to "micro-duels" (short 1 on 1 fights between players in battle), where if your opponent activated Double Damage, it would be wise for you to activate Doble Armour to hopefully win and possibly get Double Damage added to the already active Double Armour.

 

From the topic Supplies Drop Idea

[creeperskelly 1,281]

If the combination of some disadvantage coupled with losing those drugs upon death were added I think it would change things tremendously.

[dilsharox 2,395]

supplies are meant to enhance the performance of a tank not to make to slow or vunerable to self damage

[RustyNail 1,538]

I don't know dude... IMHO I think that every increase of game complexity has more chances to bring issues than restore a problematic condition.

I mean, it seems ok for killing the "bad drugger" more easily (or with less difficulty LOL) but it is a rather unpredictable change for the variety of situations created in different formats of Tanki.

Who knows what will happen in moments of generalised fight where many people use one drug...

It would be interesting to try it though, but I mean really try it, for a couple of days....

 

As for what MAFIOZA said...

MAFIOZA121, on 09 Mar 2015 - 07:57, said:

Well, it would be interesting to have a chance of supplies appearing in place of a destroyed tank. Let's say for every supply the tank has activated in it's current lifetime there is a 10% of it appearing when the tank is destroyed.

For example a player used 2 repair kits, 1 DA, 1 DD, 2 Nitro and 3 mines and then got killed. In the spot where he died there will be a:

• 20% chance of a nitro appearing
• 10% chance of DA or DD
• 20% chance of Repair kit
• Total chance of 40% that at least one supply will appear
• 0.04% chance that all four will appear
• Mines are ignored.
• Each supply from a destroyed tank will be activated immediately and will last 25-30 seconds

That way there will be more incentive and more reward for killing a tank with supplies activated, which also means that (hopefully) there will be less people complaining about druggers. This addition would also bring a whole new set of tactics to "micro-duels" (short 1 on 1 fights between players in battle), where if your opponent activated Double Damage, it would be wise for you to activate Doble Armour to hopefully win and possibly get Double Damage added to the already active Double Armour.

 

I think that's not a good idea.

The problem with druggers is not that the other players lack MOTIVE to kill them, they lack CAPACITY due to druggers' overall power and constant flow of repair kits. So, what I see happening if this idea gets implemented is druggers keep killing everybody AND get rewarded with extra supplies for their killing frenzy. Well, ... no, thanks.

[Destroyer8-k 9]

Great,innovative.I have never thought about this! Great!

[beaku 2,656]

@RustyNail,as for Mafioza's idea, don't you think that people do lack the motive to kill druggers. I have seen many people just giving up on seeing a drugger.

[stanzhang 3,291]

We already have smart cooldowns dont make the game even worse

[r_priyangshu0 270]

@RustyNail,as for Mafioza's idea, don't you think that people do lack the motive to kill druggers. I have seen many people just giving up on seeing a drugger.

They lack the motive because they do not have the power to do so.

So they just give up, which is what Tanki actually wants. 

They want us to give up so the buyers will buy more drugs because of the worthless satisfaction of destroying us.

[Rohrmeister 1,536]

Druggers will have all of these things and many reliable buyers may even leave the game because of it. In my opinion any kind of change to supplies should not have negative effect on the players using supplies. Instead, I think I have a better idea to help non-druggers fight against players with supplies.

 

[edit: other quote with supply drops on a druggers death] 

From the topic Supplies Drop Idea

If this supples drop idea comes true, I bet druggers attack at groups of two, one running ahead, the second following short behind.

As the first gets shot, the second picks up the drops.. and it does not help that much -.-

As this strategy is easy to discover, easy to undertake, and countering it works only effective if you attack druggers close range (to be first at their drop losses).. I fear it is not enough.

I have some dieas on the supply drop topic.. maybe I will write them there later this weekend.

[RustyNail 1,538]

@RustyNail,as for Mafioza's idea, don't you think that people do lack the motive to kill druggers. I have seen many people just giving up on seeing a drugger.

The reason for their givving up is that they simply can't kill the drugger.

 So...

 

I play CTF. In CTF when a loaded drugger comes towards the flag, players have no alternative, they have to stand against him. So, no lack of motive, no lack of COLLEVTIVE try. And no result, as well.

Players (in CTF) get away from druggers ONLY when score is like 10-0 and few minutes are left for the end, so they scatter and try to get killed as few times as possible, until the end of battle. Again, nothing can change that, out of a nerfing of supplies or base enhancing measures (as I proposed in a similar topic).

[kayitsiz 621]

They lack the motive because they do not have the power to do so.

So they just give up, which is what Tanki actually wants. 

They want us to give up so the buyers will buy more drugs because of the worthless satisfaction of destroying us.

LOL if we give who will be destroyed by drugggers?

[r_priyangshu0 270]

LOL if we give who will be destroyed by drugggers?

We give up trying to kill them. Not that we give up on this game. There are some very rare battles with no one drugging which are amazing as it doesn't require you to counter drug and waste drugs.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

The battles without drugs are indeed rare but amazing - you really get a good sense of victory when you win without drugging, or, if you lose you don't really feel bad about it. Instead of one team essentially cheating it was won or lost based solely on skills and tactics.