[Poll] Multing problem in the game

[NedFighter 408]

Dear tankers!

 

This is a poll where you can give your opinion about multing in the game.

You can discuss it with other players, and give suggestions for fixing it.

 

Information about multing:

 

 

A mult is a player in a battle who does not help their team up to his full capabilities. Multing is against the rules of Tanki Online, and is often used by a team which throw in a player on the enemy team to play under their capabilities, or even explicitly sabotage the opponent team. Multing goes up to the extremes of stopping your team-mate capture a flag, or using friendly fire to kill all your team-mates; to the trivial matters of camping for crystal boxes and even playing in drug wars without using supplies

 

 

Write your opinion, and share the topic!

Edited July 25, 2015 by NedFighter

[munjamix 124]

I hate mults

[dilsharox 2,395]

mults are worse than hackers

[ThouShallNot 963]

I was a mult when crystal boxes were here, thats why im rich now B) if not, then i would be stuck with m2s at gen.

[Maf 32,300]

A mult is a player in a battle who does not help their team up to his full capabilities.

Wrong. That's simply sabotage and the person doing it is called a "saboteur". A "mult" is an an alternate account of a player in the battle (hence mult comes from "multiple accounts"), which is placed into the other team and not used, basically making the other team have one player less and making the battle unfair. Some teams of raiders even use multiple mults in a battle to completely destroy the other team and force-win the battle.

[Amon166 90]

Wrong. That's simply sabotage and the person doing it is called a "saboteur". A "mult" is an an alternate account of a player in the battle (hence mult comes from "multiple accounts") obviously, which is placed into the other team and not used, basically making the other team have one player less and making the battle unfair. Some teams of raiders even use multiple mults in a battle to completely destroy the other team and force-win the battle.

He mentioned both mult and sabotage.

[stanzhang 3,291]

Play in a Dm battle where you can mult :p

[NedFighter 408]

It would be good if you give some suggestions for fixing this problem.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

I was a mult when crystal boxes were here, thats why im rich now B) if not, then i would be stuck with m2s at gen.

There are more mults now than there ever where when crystal boxes were here.

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

There are more mults now than there ever where when crystal boxes were here.

This is because there is such a demand for crystals and very few ways to earn them. People have had to resort to joining these organized groups of mult users, just to earn the crystals needed to stay competitive. The problem of mults is creating the problem of mults. It's self perpetuating.  

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

Do I think "multing" is the main problem?

My short answer is yes, but it is bigger then that.

 

Multing is a result of a poorly set up in game economic system. Tanki is not a cheap game to play. It takes very large amounts of crystals to purchase the equipment and supplies to stay competitive. Tanki may be free to play but is most definitely pay to win.

 

So what options are there for getting crystals?

1. We all know that you can buy them for real money, but this is not possible for all players. This option has also created a real imbalance at all levels.
2. You can get them as a gift. This has never been a real source of crystals. I think I have only gotten free crystals a dozen times in 2 years.
3. You can earn them, which unless you are real good or have real good equipment is very slow.

We all know that you can't do much in this game without crystals. We can also see it is very hard to get them. So if the first 3 options are not working you will need to resort to something a little more dishonest or unethical.This is where multing, sabotage, and raiding come in.

 

I think that the economic system needs to be re-worked. It needs to set up in such a way to allow players more ways to earn the crystals in an honest way. As I already mentioned, earning crystals in battle is not easy or fast. It requires you to be in the top few places on the winning team.I have seen mults on the winning team earn more crystals them hard fighting players on the losing team. That is not right or fair and needs to be fixed.

So how do you insure that you will be the in top few spots on the winning team? If you're a "buyer" with the best equipment money can buy, you stand a good chance, but it is far from a guaranty. You still need to part of something bigger. For non buyers it is even harder. Both buyers and non buyers have now resorted to using mults and saboteurs and/or joining a group who's whole propose is to insure it's members always win. These groups have become very creative at raiding honest players of crystals. 

 

Raiders come in 2 forms.

1. This 1st group shouldn't really be called raiders.They are groups of players that move from battle to battle as a group, looking for battles with enough free space so all members can join the same team. Sometimes they take over a battle and effectively "raid" it, but they do not resort to dishonest and unethical tactics to win. They do not use mults or sabotage. Many, in fact, will play with honor and except a lose when it comes, with dignity. I don't really have a problem with this group. Many of these are Clans and this is what clans do. It may seem like raiding but it is just team play.
2. The dishonest group. These guys and gals travel in packs, like scavengers, looking for any battles that they can load up the teams in order to gain the advantage. They resort to using mults, sabotage and even cheats. They almost always are using some form of external communication. I have seen groups that will have members on both sides of a battle and take turns being on the winning team. They are "raiding" the random players that join both sides. Members will usually not kill each other, only the random players. They work together to make sure their members are in the top spots on both teams. There are even groups that share accounts. They have a large pool of accounts and members know the passwords to any of these accounts. They can use them as mults, sabotage or use them for free kills in order to increase the battle fund. They try to build all the accounts up with good equipment so the "members" don't really care what account they are using or whether they are winners this battle or next. They also don't need to worry about bans either because members will just switch to another account.

So in summary, the problem is that it is nearly impossible to police a problem like this. So to me the solutions is to remove the need to steel the crystals and give players a better chance of earning them honestly. Reworking the economic system is the best solution.

 

Here is a link to a topic I started some time ago about this issue. Campaign against Mults and Saboteurs  You can have a read if you like, there is some more interesting discussion in it as well.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Canadian_Eh

[GHOST68INVINCIBLE 152]

You are totally right Canadian_Eh.

[NedFighter 408]

UP

[kmpa 830]

a vote/kick system is necessary...

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

a vote/kick system is necessary...

well we already have /vote which doesn't work so /kick won't work either. Multing has gotten so far out of control, I doubt any system can deal with it now.  One thing that will work is if Tanki starts making an example of the ones they do catch by deleting accounts. I play another game and the rule there is if you are caught being a mult too many times your account is deleted. I, as well as many others, believe that this multing is allowed to continue for reasons we do not know. We believe it is MONEY.  I can't imagine for a second that Tanki is not aware of what is happening.

 

Myself and a few of my friends started some new accounts over this past weekend. After we reached the third rank guess what we ran into.

You guessed it, mults and not just 1 but several. Simply WOW. 3 ranks in and full of mults.

 

[kmpa 830]

well we already have /vote which doesn't work so /kick won't work either. Multing has gotten so far out of control, I doubt any system can deal with it now.

I am actually thinking of a system where the players of a battle get to use a /kick [username] function, and if many players use it against one player, then automatically kick that player out of the battle.

 

I remember this had been used at some point but they removed it due to abuse. But multing is an abuse as well and I am fairly sure that they can come up with a system that reduces the abuse related to the kick function as much as possible.

 

But to me it seems like tankionline would rather spend their time on useless updates like the mouse controls, instead of actually focusing on the updates that will make this  game more interesting and entertaining.

Edited June 17, 2015 by kmpa

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

I am actually thinking of a system where the players of a battle get to use a /kick [username] function, and if many players use it against one player, then automatically kick that player out of the battle.

 

I remember this had been used at some point but they removed it due to abuse. But multing is an abuse as well and I am fairly sure that they can come up with a system that reduces the abuse related to the kick function as much as possible.

 

But to me it seems like tankionline would rather spend their time on useless updates like the mouse controls, instead of actually focusing on the updates that will make this  game more interesting and entertaining.

Oh, you mean just like this topic Player's Moderation: Kick2 It has been completely ignored by the developers for 10 months despite the fact it now has 263 upvotes.  It is becoming painfully obvious that Tanki prefers to have mults and saboteurs in their game.

[Pallidium 17]

I don't understand the mentality of a mult. You play the game to have fun, correct? In what world is running through the annoyance of loading up mulitiple accounts just for an easy win fun?

 

Why not just, I dunno... get better at the game? I don't require mults because I am confident in my ability to earn them. Instead of giving up and saying, "I'll never be able to progress because I'm not good enough. Might as well cheat my way in", people should actively attempt to progress their abilities til they are able to actually compete with confidence of a decent sum after a battle. Or, DM.

 

Heck, use your mults to battle lower accounts and play with your own skill level.

 

I also created a new account called The_Smoky_Project. I've yet to notice multing to any large extent.

The fact is, I'm able to easily make up for one or even two missing players at lower ranks. The real low rank horror? Shaft.

 

I also do not believe that Tanki is in support for mults/sabateurs. It has been brought up already in the V-Log that they are working on a new and improved kick system. This is to be one of the last things implemented into the Flash version of Tanki.

[NedFighter 408]

UP

[swede1 1,726]

Wrong. That's simply sabotage and the person doing it is called a "saboteur". A "mult" is an an alternate account of a player in the battle (hence mult comes from "multiple accounts"), which is placed into the other team and not used, basically making the other team have one player less and making the battle unfair. Some teams of raiders even use multiple mults in a battle to completely destroy the other team and force-win the battle.

mults, saboteurs, kids who don't understand that pausing over and over to stay in a game when they can't play are all called mults as a generalization, I prefer the word "Chumps" as they all cause the biggest issues to the game.

little to nothing is ding done to address these problems.

There are too few game enforcers "violator" mods, 22 I think and a game of this size should have 10 times this many, there is no way one mod can police 6000+ players each considering there would be fewer than 8 online at any given time.

They also do not have the tools to do their jobs effectively.

Maybe you could change the title and pole to include all the cat ago rise of chumps? to reflect

[Meowmix56 174]

There is a lot I'd like to know about mults.  Are they predominately used to turn the tide of battle or to afk for gold boxes?  Is it usually done by sophisticated players, groups, or casually by individuals?  Are the accounts used for anything else and could they be shared accounts made by players who quit or got hacked?  Could it just be members of a team helping their buddies on the other side while they are tabbed out doing other things?  Do players use their main connection to mult or do they use proxies?  Are these tactics used evenly around the world or are they more commonly used by players in certain countries?

 

It is odd with the number of mults no one has come forward and said, "this is how it is done, people do it this way all the time please stop it by taking these specific steps" 

[wild001 786]

This is because there is such a demand for crystals and very few ways to earn them. People have had to resort to joining these organized groups of mult users, just to earn the crystals needed to stay competitive. The problem of mults is creating the problem of mults. It's self perpetuating.

the multing users or groups are out-number the honest players, even kick system are based on number of votes.

 

in a 10 vs 10 battles, if current winning side with like 6 people and losing side only 1 people.

 

that is the time multing is very effective. since

* they can quickly get 9 raiding fighters into losing, that is 10 people fighting

* load 4 multing in current winning team, that is 6 people fighting.

 

of course, they are quickly catching up in battle and over-turn the table, and more honest/weak player in current winning side leaves, and then they load more mults, and total mult number increase to 6.

 

that is 10 vs 4 in a 10vs10 battles, and in less than 5 min, with those 6 mult can hold the team back, raid can leading the flag count to like 20 flags ahead.

 

then they unload the mult before kick evaluating system coming.

 

or they can play normally on those mult acc, and even mod can't tell and there is no proof to ban, as those mult still scores and drugging, just they dont attack for flag or they just hide in garage when defense needed.

 

so the kick system wont solve the mult problem, and the mult will evolve with the kick system. just like virus.

 

=========================

 

mult has been increasing, as new gun and paints introduced,

 

more protection paint purchase needed to survive in game. more combination of paint protection needed.

 

which drive players need to get another like 300k at least to well competive in game.

 

buyers can just buy the crystal, but free players are creative in get the crystal, like those farmming.

farmming for crystal is direct ban on their main acc, so less farmming with those alt accs.

 

which drives their alt accs into mult using. since multing only got their alt acc banned, not their main acc, that is safer way for more crystal.

 

------------------

 

buyers are not the strongest in battle even with best garage,

 

a group of raider and mult users are the only way to survive in battles these days.

 

without a big pool of friends in same team, you are in risk of being raided or multed.

 

almost everyone in game for so long learned the trick in hard way. which in return, they use the trick back.

Edited July 1, 2015 by wild001

[ATTANKER 35]

5 min pause in a 15 minute battle (which is the most popular and frequently used battle length) doesn't make sense first of all.

 

Mults may have come from the term "Multiple" accounts but now its use is far more widespread and rightly so. Any one tank who purposefully tries to disadvantage their own team is therefore a mult. I have seen some mults who make a kill or two so not to be conspicuous, then disappear hoping to give their own team a disadvantage then until there name is mentioned by team-mates will pop out again. Then when the game is about to end and the score table displayed will exit so their performance (or non performance) will not be seen by the majority.

 

I can understand a player who realises hes in a hopeless battle being outnumbered, outgunned, destroyed over and over again, team-mates leaving and has been in that battle for several rounds but wants to wait for the end to receive the crystals due and decides to become inactive or hoping to remain in the match to play in the next round or hoping that a gold box might fall. The update regarding unbalanced matches in being outnumbered one team to the other as well as early battle finish is long long overdue. This update on its own will help solve OTHER problems automatically without having to address them directly, why it hasn't been reworked and addressed is mind boggling, its the no 1 problem in tanki online.

 

They must have their reasons or 1 specific reason for laying off trying to resolve this problem as opposed to not being able to provide a perfect system, however if a new system isn't up to standard they could always cut it and try something else, but its been totally neglected. You would think they would be up for improving this aspect of the game, and try to make battles more equal and fairer, as this would make tankers happier, save time and also with more competitive battles surely they would see more supplies purchased too for example (I wish I didn't have to say that but putting myself in their shoes). Tankers leaving battles doesn't satisfy their own team or the opposing team, it was better when we could adjust battle parameters like inserting a flag capture limit, but now unless your in a PRO battle its all time orientated, apologies for going off topic.

[ATTANKER 35]

Do I think "multing" is the main problem?

My short answer is yes, but it is bigger then that.

 

Multing is a result of a poorly set up in game economic system. Tanki is not a cheap game to play. It takes very large amounts of crystals to purchase the equipment and supplies to stay competitive. Tanki may be free to play but is most definitely pay to win.

 

So what options are there for getting crystals?

1. We all know that you can buy them for real money, but this is not possible for all players. This option has also created a real imbalance at all levels.
2. You can get them as a gift. This has never been a real source of crystals. I think I have only gotten free crystals a dozen times in 2 years.
3. You can earn them, which unless you are real good or have real good equipment is very slow.

We all know that you can't do much in this game without crystals. We can also see it is very hard to get them. So if the first 3 options are not working you will need to resort to something a little more dishonest or unethical.This is where multing, sabotage, and raiding come in.

 

I think that the economic system needs to be re-worked. It needs to set up in such a way to allow players more ways to earn the crystals in an honest way. As I already mentioned, earning crystals in battle is not easy or fast. It requires you to be in the top few places on the winning team.I have seen mults on the winning team earn more crystals them hard fighting players on the losing team. That is not right or fair and needs to be fixed.

So how do you insure that you will be the in top few spots on the winning team? If you're a "buyer" with the best equipment money can buy, you stand a good chance, but it is far from a guaranty. You still need to part of something bigger. For non buyers it is even harder. Both buyers and non buyers have now resorted to using mults and saboteurs and/or joining a group who's whole propose is to insure it's members always win. These groups have become very creative at raiding honest players of crystals. 

 

Raiders come in 2 forms.

1. This 1st group shouldn't really be called raiders.They are groups of players that move from battle to battle as a group, looking for battles with enough free space so all members can join the same team. Sometimes they take over a battle and effectively "raid" it, but they do not resort to dishonest and unethical tactics to win. They do not use mults or sabotage. Many, in fact, will play with honor and except a lose when it comes, with dignity. I don't really have a problem with this group. Many of these are Clans and this is what clans do. It may seem like raiding but it is just team play.
2. The dishonest group. These guys and gals travel in packs, like scavengers, looking for any battles that they can load up the teams in order to gain the advantage. They resort to using mults, sabotage and even cheats. They almost always are using some form of external communication. I have seen groups that will have members on both sides of a battle and take turns being on the winning team. They are "raiding" the random players that join both sides. Members will usually not kill each other, only the random players. They work together to make sure their members are in the top spots on both teams. There are even groups that share accounts. They have a large pool of accounts and members know the passwords to any of these accounts. They can use them as mults, sabotage or use them for free kills in order to increase the battle fund. They try to build all the accounts up with good equipment so the "members" don't really care what account they are using or whether they are winners this battle or next. They also don't need to worry about bans either because members will just switch to another account.

So in summary, the problem is that it is nearly impossible to police a problem like this. So to me the solutions is to remove the need to steel the crystals and give players a better chance of earning them honestly. Reworking the economic system is the best solution.

 

Here is a link to a topic I started some time ago about this issue. Campaign against Mults and Saboteurs  You can have a read if you like, there is some more interesting discussion in it as well.

Everyone receives a share of crystals win or lose except someone who is multing or just inactive. Furthermore multing is for the purpose of scooping battle funds one way or the other, but not always for that reason. Sometimes a tanker might not like members of a particular team so might using unethical and treacherous means to burden or handicap his/her team, or perhaps a very competitive match is taking place that has been going on for a good while and is almost at an end, but someone leaves or gets disconnected and someone else joins and straight away decides they want to have a 5 minute break or go the garage before resuming.

If you join a battle or start in the beginning of one and don't move for the first 30 seconds you should be automatically removed. Solutions like this would help out current situations like when your involved in a 1 way battle and the other team have all left and you can't be bothered to sit there till the end so decide to become inactive and do something else for the remaining 4 mins 59 secs, but at the same time you don't want to remain in that battle for the next round as your afk or on another website or whatever and don't want to disadvantage your team, and perhaps someone else wants to join and play in your place while your being inactive.

 

To avoid raiders best go to small or PRO battles as they are unscrupulous and its hard to distinguish those who fight fair and those who fight dirty, as both sets have a tendency to be on the look out for big margin scores, when one side is becoming totally vacant, and perhaps one member of the raiding party might use underhanded means unbeknown to his fellow team-mates. But the best way is early finishing of battles when new system is introduced (hopefully), or even get some good friends who you can battle with in case raiders do come.

[L.I.B.E.R.A.T.O.R 218]

^Even small & pro battles still have quite abit of raiders, mults and sabo kings. Nothing is safe in TO...

Edited July 1, 2015 by L.I.B.E.R.A.T.O.R