Changes in maximum range for Freeze, Firebird and Isida

[boyice 18]

the first thing tanki has to do is decrease the burning damage of firebird by 20%....firebired takes down even a double armoured mammmy m3

[genak138 950]

An experienced player using Twins, how nice. I find Twins lacking distinct feature. Perhaps small splash damage should be add to every shot to be able to shoot walls like thunder do. Like Lasher gun in Planetside2.

 

Just a thought.

Please no. I find twins OP as it is. It really doesn't need additional splash damage, as I get damaged by twins even if they miss me as it is. 

[kayitsiz 621]

Actually no. We made Hammer and Vulcan as they were the simplest mechanics we got in plans. I looking forward to see Worms-style Artillery cannon in the game.

How about penetrating friend targets? We need that..

[Dragon-Judgement 1,529]

How about penetrating friend targets? We need that..

Rail penetrates, if you didn't notice by now.

[kayitsiz 621]

Rail penetrates, if you didn't notice by now.

We are talking about twins, if you didn't notice by now! 

Note: Also shaft penetrates opponents... 

[creeperskelly 1,281]

That's why I like Firebird the best - nobody gets in my way of attacking an enemy tank.

 

Nothing more irritating than using Shaft, Twins, Isida, or Rico than to have your own team in the way so you can't damage opponents.

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

Today I played two hours freeze.

 

The Freeze effect is so low, that M3 turrets & hulls have no problems in turning to kill me, when I use a hunter. Only if I ride a wasp I may be fast enough to evade their fire.

The freeze effect lasts such a short time that it can not be used as support weapon for my team.. only usefull application is

- suprise someone from behind, crash into him to stop him from turning, and chill him to death

- find a couple of tanks massively weakened and in very very close proximity to each other.. and attack them as one target

 

For me this weapon is almost dead at the moment. Weakest turret on the field.

 

 

End 2014 M3 freeze was not very common on the battlefield. This was because the turret was a little underpowered, as the fast turningn speeds of M3 turrets and hulls made it possible to fight back with a high win rate. It was overpowered in M0 and M1.. balanced in M2 and underpowered in M3.

 

Making the freeze effect change with the M_Level would have made it better for the lower rankers (less anoying for freeze victims) and also more effective on M3, where excelent paints are common as well.

edit: I am not talking about the De-Freeze-Time, this shall be same for all M-Levels. I mean the speed-when-frozen.

so like an M0 Freeze reduces you to 70%, and M2 Freeze to 40% as it was once ago, and  M4 Freeze reduces you to 30%.

 

Freeze as today.. is simply boring and less effective then firebird.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Rohrmeister

[Papaya14 481]

Making the freeze effect change with the M_Level would have made it better for the lower rankers (less anoying for freeze victims) and also more effective on M3, where excelent paints are common as well.

IMO this seems to me the most effective way of making Freeze a balanced weapon again. Firebird's burning time/strength increases with each upgrade, why not Freeze with its freeze time? Even make it its own MU parameter!

Edited July 19, 2015 by Papaya14

[creeperskelly 1,281]

I remember when Freeze actually stopped me in my tracks - literally frozen solid. I still use the same hull, turrets, and paint since that time and the current Freeze does nothing at all to slow me down or prevent me from turning and attacking the Freeze.

 

Old Freeze made it almost impossible for flag stealers to get away.

 

The only time I really see Freeze effective now is when someone uses DD. But it still doesn't slow the enemy down.

[beaku 2,656]

I would love if freezing effect is increased. Freeze has lost all it's old characteristics

It's not what I had bought in 2013. TBH, freeze's range and damage is not at all impressive. The first thing that comes to mind when thinking of freeze is freezing. Imagine Firebird without afterburn. Just doesn't make sense.

In my opinion, freeze will do well with a nerf in damage and a big buff in freezing effect. I am not saying this from point of view of a Freeze user (I have M0). This is an unbiased opinion. Nowadays, seeing a freeze doesn't inspire me to run or hide.

Anyway, that's my opinion. Keep those tweaks coming and hopefully, we'll see an awesome balance one day. ;)

[creeperskelly 1,281]

I never thought I would say this as I use Isida more than I do Firebird (my two principal turrets - both M2 with 25% upgrades on them).

 

But I really feel Isida's damage effect is OP now. I think Isida's damage should be decreased but the healing increased.

 

I liked it much better with decreased range and a more effective cone.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

Also the impact force on Vulcan is the most annoying aspect of it. If I'm being hit on the left by Vulcan why can't I turn right? :rolleyes:

[Catch-Me-IF-U-Can 87]

Change the fire more

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

IMO this seems to me the most effective way of making Freeze a balanced weapon again. Firebird's burning time/strength increases with each upgrade, why not Freeze with its freeze time? Even make it its own MU parameter!

thanks for your feedback.

I've edited my post to make more clear, that I did not mean de-freeze-time, but I ment the speed-when-frozen (remaining speed of the frozen Tank).

 

While M0 Tanks have been almost at standstill (as they have been so slow), M3 tanks could fight back when their user was skilled.

So I think at M0 the remaining speed while beeing froozen should be a little higher as compared to 12/2014 (stay a little more agile);

while M2 was pretty balanced; while M3 left the tanks to fast (because of availability of protection paints.., high turning speed of M3 tanks and M3 turrets)

[Natey16 2]

Isida needs a wider cone again, because now it is really hard to aim especially if the enemy turret is knocking you off balance.

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

I never used Isida as it has the old cone angle.. so I was never used to the wide angle.

I purchased it after the angle was already narrow.

In my opinion the horizontal angle is fine, as soon as you get used to aim. Of course it was much easier in the past, but this old, wide cone angle made it nearly impossible to dodge an isida. Now ISida pilots have to aim and use their hull much more to keep their aim.. I - as a fresh isida user - like it.

 

But I think the vertical angle (up down angle) should be 40degrees again. The attack/healin of tanks on platforms was a main characterisitic of this weapon.

[LeGrimReaper 18]

Please freeze may have a longer range but it is useless at freezing tanks, it is only good if the enemy is REALLY close so if you shoot from like 20m, the enemy will barely slow down... so the turrets main goal, to slow down is useless....

[creeperskelly 1,281]

I never used Isida as it has the old cone angle.. so I was never used to the wide angle.

I purchased it after the angle was already narrow.

In my opinion the horizontal angle is fine, as soon as you get used to aim. Of course it was much easier in the past, but this old, wide cone angle made it nearly impossible to dodge an isida. Now ISida pilots have to aim and use their hull much more to keep their aim.. I - as a fresh isida user - like it.

 

But I think the vertical angle (up down angle) should be 40degrees again. The attack/healin of tanks on platforms was a main characterisitic of this weapon.

When it had the wider angle it also had a shorter range. I think the old way was better balanced. It was quite possible to give support to a tank above or below a ramp. Now it's impossible.

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

When it had the wider angle it also had a shorter range. I think the old way was better balanced. It was quite possible to give support to a tank above or below a ramp. Now it's impossible.

I remember the lower range.. it was the lowest from all turrest.

Personally i would stick to the new range, damage and energy.. and to the currently slim _horizontal_ cone. but I would definitely increase the vertical cone, so that up/down-ramp aiming is as before. This was really cool.. not only for Isida users, but also for me fighting an enemy isida. I had to take more care about enemy Isidas and gameplay was more interresting (again: I just talk about the vertical cone; up-down-wards aiming)

 

but anyways.. I think our personal opinions reflect very much the way we act on the battlefield. therefor all comments are valid.. and in the end tanki has to try this things out for 4 Weeks and check the statistics (like points_archieved - per - death_received ratio of each turret) to see balance.

 

but for freeze.. I am now out of the statistics. I simply use it next-to-never any more.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Rohrmeister

[creeperskelly 1,281]

Well here's my thought on that: Rico, Twins, Rail, and even Shaft to some degree can damage someone up or below on a ramp due to auto-aim - but Isida cannot any longer. For me that's really frustrating and has led to me not using it as much as I used to.

 

They should all be consistent in this regard. They need to bring back the vertical attack/healing of Isida.

 

I'm at the point now where I have the rank and funds to upgrade mine to M3 but I am still on the fence about it due to this issue.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

Also as much as I hated Freeze long ago it really has so little purpose now. It used to be "Climate Control " could defend a flag well - one Freeze and one Firebird in conjunction.

[Supernatural 2,053]

I hate freeze as it ruins my firebird effect. And those russians cant even understand that... like damn you i do more damage! (regardless whether the team loses or not, but freeze will have more points.)  rico is OP. way too OP. others are well-balanced, with skills of course.

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

Well here's my thought on that: Rico, Twins, Rail, and even Shaft to some degree can damage someone up or below on a ramp due to auto-aim - but Isida cannot any longer. For me that's really frustrating and has led to me not using it as much as I used to.

You are right.

 

Vertical autoaim is

- Rico +15.. -18 degrees (link)

- Twins +13.. -16 degrees (link)

- Fire, Freez and Isida +10..-10

 

Rico and Twins can - due to their range - simply drive a litte back and make their auto aim work. Or they simply rock their tank nose-up to aim up (I have to do this with rail all the time). With Isida I can also damage upwards if I rock my tanks nose up.. but this works only for half a sec until the tanks nose comes down again -.-

 

Yes I share that concern.. the vertical auto aim for Isida should be increased back to 40 degrees..

Edited July 20, 2015 by Rohrmeister

[creeperskelly 1,281]

A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away Isida could do this:

 

 

Now it's like this:

 

 

It used to be very effective in healing or attacking tanks that would park themselves in that spot.

 

In Rio it has made quite a difference in battle conditions since anyone who is up on that ridge anywhere on the left side of red base all the way to blue base is now safe from being attacked or healed.

 

It also has a really negative effect in Noise.

[genak138 950]

I really don't mind the smaller Isida cone because it got much better range when it lost the cone. Also, it doesn't have to have access to the turret, it can shoot at any part of the tank, very useful.

IMO, a range nerf to firebird wasn't really that helpful. What it needed was a damage nerf.

Freeze needs to actually be able to freeze effectively, just not having the freeze last for a minute, like it did for a while.