Slow down druggers' xp and in-game pts

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

I am leaving this part of forum entirely.

Aw, are you mad? It's OK, come back. I miss you already. Now who I'm I going to argue with? 

 

 

......Oh wait, @canadarules is still around. He's always fun to argue with. 

[UrbanApostle 1]

I do drugs.

 

Everyone uses drugs at some point or another - they fall from the sky!

 

I fight many battles where my opponents are drugging - they get beaten by me - then turn around and then accuse me of drugging! - Like REALLY!

 

1. I will drug to get to the gold. 

2. I will drug to escape.

3. I will drug to fight one-on-one with heavy tanks with higher rank.

4. I will drug to defend myself from 3 to 4 tanks at a the same time.

5. I will drug to defend flag from multi tank ambush.

 

SO YES - I will drug to survive!

 

This is a war game - War is not fair - It's dirty and brutal. - If you want something fair go play chess.

 

My name is UrbanApostle and YES I DO DRUGS and I'm proud of if!

 

Deal with it!   :lol: 

 

 

 

 

[creeperskelly 1,281]

There is nothing wrong with 1-5 above. :)

 

It's the mindless minions who are leading 20-0 in CTF who still drug and spawn camp that are the real problem. :rolleyes:

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

I do drugs.

 

Everyone uses drugs at some point or another - they fall from the sky!

 

I fight many battles where my opponents are drugging - they get beaten by me - then turn around and then accuse me of drugging! - Like REALLY!

 

1. I will drug to get to the gold. 

2. I will drug to escape.

3. I will drug to fight one-on-one with heavy tanks with higher rank.

4. I will drug to defend myself from 3 to 4 tanks at a the same time.

5. I will drug to defend flag from multi tank ambush.

 

SO YES - I will drug to survive!

 

This is a war game - War is not fair - It's dirty and brutal. - If you want something fair go play chess.

 

My name is UrbanApostle and YES I DO DRUGS and I'm proud of if!

 

Deal with it!   :lol: 

I have 1000's of drugs. I can drug constantly but I don't. You know why, because it spoils gameplay and I'm not short-sighted. The game is out of whack. Too many turrets, too few protection paints, hornets constantly nerfed compared to medium and heavy hulls etc. And then there are druggers who get a massive advantage and can turn new players away very easily. I'm not suggesting we get rid of them but I'm suggesting we tweak the balance.

 

My garage is effectively m4 every turret and hull. I'd rate myself as a very good tanker. There is no enjoyment in pounding the weaker non-druggers into submission. It's very boring.

 

But if you need drugs to survive...

[creeperskelly 1,281]

 

My garage is effectively m4 every turret and hull. I'd rate myself as a very good tanker. There is no enjoyment in pounding the weaker non-druggers into submission. It's very boring.

It's boring to be on the losing team being pounded to death, and, equally boring to be on the winning team when some minion is pounding the other team and driving them all away.

 

If I'm on a team that outnumbers the other team substantially I may park myself or play without even using drops. I just don't see the point or the fun in using drugs against opponents who are outnumbered.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Aw, are you mad? It's OK, come back. I miss you already. Now who I'm I going to argue with?

His leaving changes nothing. Pity.

 

 

It's boring to be on the losing team being pounded to death, and, equally boring to be on the winning team when some minion is pounding the other team and driving them all away.

 

If I'm on a team that outnumbers the other team substantially I may park myself or play without even using drops. I just don't see the point or the fun in using drugs against opponents who are outnumbered.

We want fair and challenging gameplay. Unfair gameplay makes players leave before they have a chance to see if they're any good. TO could be turning away $millions.

[RustyNail 1,538]

I do drugs.

 

Everyone uses drugs at some point or another - they fall from the sky!

 

I fight many battles where my opponents are drugging - they get beaten by me - then turn around and then accuse me of drugging! - Like REALLY!

 

1. I will drug to get to the gold. 

2. I will drug to escape.

3. I will drug to fight one-on-one with heavy tanks with higher rank.

4. I will drug to defend myself from 3 to 4 tanks at a the same time.

5. I will drug to defend flag from multi tank ambush.

 

SO YES - I will drug to survive!

 

This is a war game - War is not fair - It's dirty and brutal. - If you want something fair go play chess.

 

My name is UrbanApostle and YES I DO DRUGS and I'm proud of if!

 

Deal with it!   :lol: 

LOL You 're out of your mind if you think that what you wrote makes sense... The truth is, you 're a drugger and you don't even know how you harm the game (that's why you can still feel proud of it).

 

Let's start by making clear that your life is not at stakes... winning is. Or the amount of crystals you get. So there's not any survival need to justify constant drugging.

Second, 1-5 means just playing. Whatever you do in a battle (except hide behind a building) you 'll be in one of those situations. So, you say that you just like to drug in every option of the battle and you simply justify it by the above mentioned pseudo-argument.

Having to use drugs in order to play means you lack skill. I suggest you tried to learn a few things by observing what other, more skilled tank men do. Not having a supply at hand when you need it might also make you discover inside you the skill required to face the situation. If not this time, some other time. A little beating won't hurt you.

This game can give you the superficial joy of beating everybody else with the help of supplies (that is on an unbalanced measure of power) or the real and deeper joy of accomplishing something, of improving your skills, of becoming better than before. Your choice, but there's not really any comparison between the two.

[UrbanApostle 1]

LOL You 're out of your mind if you think that what you wrote makes sense... The truth is, you 're a drugger and you don't even know how you harm the game (that's why you can still feel proud of it).

 

Let's start by making clear that your life is not at stakes... winning is. Or the amount of crystals you get. So there's not any survival need to justify constant drugging.

Second, 1-5 means just playing. Whatever you do in a battle (except hide behind a building) you 'll be in one of those situations. So, you say that you just like to drug in every option of the battle and you simply justify it by the above mentioned pseudo-argument.

Having to use drugs in order to play means you lack skill. I suggest you tried to learn a few things by observing what other, more skilled tank men do. Not having a supply at hand when you need it might also make you discover inside you the skill required to face the situation. If not this time, some other time. A little beating won't hurt you.

This game can give you the superficial joy of beating everybody else with the help of supplies (that is on an unbalanced measure of power) or the real and deeper joy of accomplishing something, of improving your skills, of becoming better than before. Your choice, but there's not really any comparison between the two.

I appreciate what you are saying about skills - skills are very important - I agree.

 

However; the game is based on fairly accurate physics - so skill will have it's limits - example:

1. If gold drops across the arena - skill alone is not going to get me there in time - but #4 will certainly help!
2. If a bunch of high ranked players like yourself show up in a game and start beating me to a pulp with maxed out tanks - skill will also have it's limits.
3. Even worse - if a high ranked clan shows up in a game and I find myself playing with some uncoordinated newbies - my skills alone will have limits.

but...

 

If I'm in a game with lower ranked players with weaker tanks - I don't have need to drug. I don't drug to dominate and demoralize newcomers to the game.

 

On the other hand - I don't play to loose - I play to win - I drug to survive and win.

 

UrbanApostle

[Truthteller 4,204]

If I payed for my drugs I bought supply kits and saved, Don't I deserve to use them? I don't think I like this idea.

[Brubook 1,161]

His leaving changes nothing. Pity.

 

 

We want fair and challenging gameplay. Unfair gameplay makes players leave before they have a chance to see if they're any good. TO could be turning away $millions.

Apart agreeing with you, I just want to poit out that Tanki Online (say Alternativa Platform) already earn quite some $millions net !!!! :)

[Brubook 1,161]

If I payed for my drugs I bought supply kits and saved, Don't I deserve to use them? I don't think I like this idea.

Uhm ... I think you didn't quite get the point of this thread (or drugging issue)

[PuncherTank 37]

Yes, it may help non-druggers "a little", but it may also have adverse effects. Plus, this would be the wrong way to deal with the problem as it addresses the effect rather than the cause. You can chase these little breadcrumbs, but I'm after the jackpot, which is the monetization model! BTW, aren't you sick of reading this term? Monetization model, monetization model, monetization model! :angry:

Another reason TO won't like this idea is because it will upset many of their buyers, since those "crazy" druggers are usually big spenders. Sadly, because of the current structure of the game TO have to butter up this kind of players and protect their "interests" even at high costs to the game experience of free players. There's no chance for real improvement within the current game model. The best TO can say to their free players/non-druggers is to zip it, eat crap and hope things will be better in the Unity TO! Which is basically what Hazel tried to say in his last post!

There have been many suggestions to support reasonable use of supplies. I suggested a system (Dynamic Cooldowns) that would efficiently balance supply use between opposite teams and combat raiding, but again it would be crushed by the might rock of the current freaking monetization model. "Reasonable drugging" is not something that TO want to promote, actually it's quite the opposite!

The question that matters the most now is; will we see essential improvement on game experience (not graphics!) for ALL players and a genuine free-to-play model in the Unity game? I do hope so!

As for Hazel, maybe we can send him a box of chocolate (99% Cocoa)!  :D AbsoluteZero is paying!

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

If I payed for my drugs I bought supply kits and saved, Don't I deserve to use them? I don't think I like this idea.

I think anyone who has supplies deserves to use them. This idea doesn't stop that. So what is it you don't like.

 

 

As for Hazel, maybe we can send him a box of chocolate (99% Cocoa)! :D AbsoluteZero is paying!

Put it on my tab. :o

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

As for Hazel, maybe we can send him a box of chocolate (99% Cocoa)!  :D AbsoluteZero is paying!

I'm pretty sure that if AZ is buying chocolate, he's keeping it for himself.  

 

Not because he is selfish, more like addicted.   ;)

[UrbanApostle 1]

There is nothing wrong with 1-5 above. :)

 

It's the mindless minions who are leading 20-0 in CTF who still drug and spawn camp that are the real problem. :rolleyes:

True!

[Vikingsrallentando 3,058]

TO could be turning away $millions.

There are other places they turn away millions for. Map maintenance and the lack there of may cause people to leave (playing the same maps over and over). Maps that are not played are lost revenue. The customer support, both in the community and the helpdesk are reasons for people to quit before they even begin.

 

 already earn quite some $millions net !!!! :)

Not a bad idea to also suggest areas they are lacking in. Their focus has been mainly on items in the garage, their most obvious sources of income, over the past few years. If they would give people the opportunity to keep up the maps, have appropriate means for helping players in game, and a more efficient helpdesk: Game instantly has more variety, more people within the community are helped, and the helpdesk would be revered. Those types of things keep people playing.

 

Yes, it may help non-druggers "a little", but it may also have adverse effects. Plus, this would be the wrong way to deal with the problem as it addresses the effect rather than the cause. You can chase these little breadcrumbs, but I'm after the jackpot, which is the monetization model! BTW, aren't you sick of reading this term? Monetization model, monetization model, monetization model! :angry:

Want the source? Get rid of the PRO battle 5k pass or reduce the amount to 1k. Let people freely customize their battles to limit supplies. I can't see how it would wreck the monetization of the game. I can't imagine buyers crying over people not having to spend 5k on something that should be guaranteed for everyone. It would instantly relieve the pressure on many who would feel they have to buy crystals to succeed. They can participate in battles without supplies at an earlier rank than normal. People can still make their supply battles and people will still join them. Drugs will forever be the game to some people, its just really unbalanced in terms of the influences of Drugging and non-drugging. I think we all know which stands out.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

^

I'd prefer it if supplies where limited in a game. Once you have used your allowance you can have no more. eg, in a 30 minute ctf silence battle. You can use 15 of each from your garage and that's it. Pick ups can be used anytime. But we know this will ultimiately decrease revenue for TO.

 

But my suggestion isn't as radical as that. It's essentially keeping it the same as it now changing only a few lines of code for checks and scores. It would even increase revenue. I thought a tweak like this would be welcomed by devs as one of those ideas that is on their side but it was met with disdain by them instead.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

They intentionally price the tanks out of the universe so people end up buying drugs by the millions to compensate for it.

 

If the tanks were cheaper then they would sell fewer supply kits.

[RustyNail 1,538]

The whole xp-ranking system is wrong. Most players want to up-rank fast, hence the xp-card. But every logical player should want the opposite.. to up-rank slower than tanki permits.

Every rank is unlocking new equipment. That's new items to buy, that's new expenses. The longer one remains to a given rank, the more crystals one gathers. If xp-ranking had half its value, meaning that players take twice the time (performance the same as before) to reach next rank, then, players would have double the crystals when up-rank.

But everyone is in a harry to finish the game, to complete all levels (ranks) and be called a generalissimo. This ends in being in a place where the crystals gathered are few and new items are many, and only buyers - in fact only top buyers - can afford most of them.

Isn't it a reasonable thinking?

[AbsoluteAlphaZero 2,027]

I'm pretty sure that if AZ is buying chocolate, he's keeping it for himself.  

 

Not because he is selfish, more like addicted.   ;)

Golden comment ;)

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

^

I'd prefer it if supplies where limited in a game. Once you have used your allowance you can have no more. eg, in a 30 minute ctf silence battle. You can use 15 of each from your garage and that's it. Pick ups can be used anytime. But we know this will ultimiately decrease revenue for TO.

 

But my suggestion isn't as radical as that. It's essentially keeping it the same as it now changing only a few lines of code for checks and scores. It would even increase revenue. I thought a tweak like this would be welcomed by devs as one of those ideas that is on their side but it was met with disdain by them instead.

 

More like 1 person, who in my opinion was filtering any he personally didn't like from the rest of the team.

[Brubook 1,161]

^

I'd prefer it if supplies where limited in a game. Once you have used your allowance you can have no more. eg, in a 30 minute ctf silence battle. You can use 15 of each from your garage and that's it. Pick ups can be used anytime. But we know this will ultimiately decrease revenue for TO.

 

But my suggestion isn't as radical as that. It's essentially keeping it the same as it now changing only a few lines of code for checks and scores. It would even increase revenue. I thought a tweak like this would be welcomed by devs as one of those ideas that is on their side but it was met with disdain by them instead.

Well ... 15 x 5 = 75 drugs in 30 minutes? I would be more limitative!

As we have seen on our threads, many ideas came out to "replace" the loss, even if I am not sure there would be a loss. The concept is not just the drugs on the shelf ... drugging less means more game balance, means more satisfaction, means both more players and the actual players more keen on spending money on a enjoyable game. Finally more players means more payers (in %). Devs should widen their view and understand these concepts. Proof is that less than 1 year ago there were 120.000 daily players with peaks of 150.000 in the weekends. Now (first missions day excluded) they are settled to 60.000 daily with 70.000 peak.

Drugging less means earning more (in Tanki economy I mean). Creeperskelly and others also proposed some cosmetics stuff to offer (from national flags to kind of side customisable stickers) that would make good results!

[racer22_online 206]

The reason I have enjoyed contributing to the debate about "over drug use spoiling the game" is because I can see an 'injustice' is being done.

I bit like giving men the vote and not allowing women to vote.

 

Please note,  Tanki Management have a perfect right to do what they like, the game belongs to them.

 

However, they should make it clear from the outset that they are keen to support the economic model where getting players 'hooked' on using drugs is part of their design and they are not willing to entertain any other model.  Then all is clear and we can make our choice.

 

My belief is that 80% of players do not want to use 'performance enhancement' buttons (1,2,3,4) and these players wishes should not be ignored.  (Limited amounts per player per 15 minutes makes a lot of sense).

 

If you don't believe me then Tanki can hold a poll that asks a simply question:

How many players would like to see an 'equal' control of the amount of garage supplies used on both sides?

1. Yes

2. No

3. I want no change

4. I prefer an OPTION to be provided on Map setup to limit the amounts of garage supplies to be used on both sides (may input the number allowed per tank per 15 minutes).

 

eSports do not allow the use of garage drugs (or may consider a limited number per side per battle) - this is because they know this limit creates a better battle.

You only have to look at the poor game play in HardStyle - the balance was mostly one sided - only the winners seemed to enjoy the balltle.

 

With minimal garage drugs - both sides can enjoy the battle, win or lose.

 

We have ALL seen that when low amounts of garage drugs are used then THE BATTLES ARE MUCH BETTER.

How is that Tanki simply ignore the huge amounts of evidence we have provided where battles are being ruined by druggers.

If Tanki was my company I would be utterly ashamed.

Tanki has lost much of it's good reputation over the last 6 months due to the imbalance in battles.

Until Tanki solves the imbalance caused by over drug use, I cannot recommend this game to anyone.

 

It IS possible to please both druggers and sportsman with a few simple tweaks.

We have given many good ideas and taken great care not to damage the economics.

Indeed, the number of players would probably quadruple (if Tanki would only realise it).

Once, the 'sportsmen players' start recommending the game this is where the big numbers will come from.

 

Just advertising on those bill boards in Tanki would bring in millions.

The people who have the skills to play Tanki are among the elite in society (= top spenders) - advertisers bend over backwards to access this group.

Tanki can be the best internet game on the planet.

 

I was taught in sales school: "upset customers do not say anything - they just walk away".

My school moto was "where there's a will, there's a way".

I.e. we can fix this - just Tanki needs the WILL to do it.

Pro Mode nearly does it - Tanki just needs to make it popular so we can all use it.  (Once popular you can regulate the price to prevent it being too popular).

Why doesn't Tanki talk to us?  What are you afraid of?

 

Amazing that in the Mr Tanki videos how Tanki values 'friendship' (as we so often see on the battlefield) - but somehow Tanki does not value balanced battles - in fact the Tanki economic model goes out it's way to encourage thuggish behaviour!  Can Semyon justify that?

(Instead of spending my time trying to promote 'balanced battles' via the forums, I wish I could spend more time on Video making!)

Has anyone managed to split a Gold box?

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

I played about 45 mins yesterday. The first was the last 10 mins of a 15 and it was a good battle.

 

The next round was crap. We got raided by over powered druggers. Everyone on my team left except myself. Be darned if I'm leaving any of my crystals for them. I just waited on pause. It was funny to watch them keep capping flags and STILL drugging and I was the only one in the battle. It took them about 3 mins to figure out I wasn't on the field and the whole time the they came roaring up the ramp with all 3 supplies on. LOL Actually it was for fun watching them waste supplies then it was playing. My pause timer ran out and I had to reset it but while I did I asked "Why are you still drugging, I'm all alone and clearly you have already won?" (score was 20 -1 or something) Well I can't repeat what the response was without getting banned. 

 

The next round was a real good battle, no mindless druggers and the score was close right until the end. I think we won, I can't remember and frankly don't care. It was fun.

 

For the last round the mindless druggers came back within the first 5 mins. This time I left and called it a night. 

 

 

These druggers where clearly friends of this guy.( picture is from the OP)

 

 

[creeperskelly 1,281]

Funny thing is watching them cap flags and not realizing they get nothing for it! They are probably so stupid that they think they are still getting 100XP each time for doing it.