Jump to content
EN
Play

Forum

Important Changes in Daily Missions Rewards


semyonkirov
 Share

Recommended Posts

Remember when crystal drops were removed? They tried to blame the players for it, but, it was part of a clever scheme to remove them in the first place.

 

Random crystal drops + low value = nobody camping for them.

Predictable drops + high value = camping.

 

"Oh, no, players are camping so we should remove drops as an experiment...."

 

They wanted to do away with the Daily Gifts so they invented Daily Missions. So they presented them with high value in order to make us forget about the Daily Gifts (which required no work to get) and now they claim that the Daily Missions are disrupting the "economy."

 

I predict in about 2 weeks they will remove Daily Missions altogether - claiming that having them is still "ruining the Tanki economy" and after that there will neither be Daily Missions nor Daily Gifts.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They should make the missions more difficult, and they should add more of them, not drop the crystals. That way the players who are more active are rewarded, because I can almost always complete my missions easily and without taking too much time.

Edited by Lex_Talionis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was talking with a friend about this update... and I posed this question: "If this update was going to ruin it's economy as they claim, why the hell even put it in the game and hype us up for it?" Because apparently somewhere during this whole 'development' process, they had to have known this was going to unbalance the game. So it's pretty obvious they were going to nerf the mission rewards from the start.

 

My question now is: Why? How did you gather the guts to make VLOGs about the daily missions, giving us the 'good' part of them, hyping your apparently gullible community, then broadside us and pull such a hellish move? You don't even THINK to mention, "Well with the missions, there may be a negative outcome", rather you hid it from us and don't tell us until after an "update" is launched and everyone's pissed off at you. I've never seen such shady developers.

 

As for me, I'm through being toyed with. I'm done watching this game jump up one level, then jump down 2 levels.

I don't even suggest to friends that I have IRL to play this game, and honestly... I'm making it a fricking HABIT to avoid this game now.

I'm not going to write a book about what's bad or unsuitable with this game; I've expressed it enough and I am tired.

 

Goodbye Tanki Online.

Edited by Dragon-Judgement
  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with many of the posts here that basically point out the fact that the developers just pulled a bait and switch. Instead of adjusting the difficulty of the missions to reflect the reward they just pull an across the board 50% reduction. No problems were fixed and for those who maybe can't afford to constantly buy crystals, once again they have closed the door for them to be able to play and enjoy the game and have a path for upgrades that doesn't require a boat load of money. I see the ugly head of the greed monster raising it's head. I'm finding it more and more frustrating in the game because it just seems that it is the cry babies that get the most influence in the game. Yes tweaks have to be made from time to time, but it just seems that those who have the skill get the Shaft (pun intended) the most.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was talking with a friend about this update... and I posed this question: "If this update was going to ruin it's economy as they claim, why the hell even put it in the game and hype us up for it?" Because apparently somewhere during this whole 'development' process, they had to have known this was going to unbalance the game. So it's pretty obvious they were going to nerf the mission rewards from the start.

 

My question now is: Why? How did you gather the guts to make VLOGs about the daily missions, giving us the 'good' part of them, hyping your apparently gullible community, then broadside us and pull such a hellish move? You don't even THINK to mention, "Well with the missions, there may be a negative outcome", rather you hid it from us and don't tell us until after an "update" is launched and everyone's pissed off at you. I've never seen such shady developers.

 

As for me, I'm through being toyed with. I'm done watching this game jump up one level, then jump down 2 levels.

I don't even suggest to friends that I have IRL to play this game, and honestly... I'm making it a fricking HABIT to avoid this game now.

I'm not going to write a book about what's bad or unsuitable with this game; I've expressed it enough and I am tired.

 

Goodbye Tanki Online.

+++++
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1- There are "cry babies" on both opposing sides

2- So please don't be a hypocrite (saying someone from the other side is a cry baby when you also are one)

 All I can say is if the shoe fits. And if you had read my post you would have seen that I was clearly stating a fact that whenever an adjustment takes place in the game that threatens those who have attained their lofty ranks by buying their way to the top (I assume that because of the amount of drugging that I observe them doing) that it has a tendency to go away because it has "Unbalanced" the game. And yes I have supported this game with buying crystals and I have up to date equipment. But I do believe skill should be rewarded too. And the developers have just severly hampered those who maybe enjoy the game and are good at it but are held back because they may not have the funds to improve their equipment. I also said that adjustments may be needed too. But that this time the developers overreacted instead of actually fixing the problem. Also I have noted, through observation, that those who cry the most are the high rankers that I consistantly blow away in the game. You know if you really want to balance this game out, do away with drugging. Oh, thats right, that's where they make most of their money, sorry that won't happen.

 

By the way ChineseTankMan how much drugging do you do during a game?

Edited by Dliver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 All I can say is if the shoe fits. And if you had read my post you would have seen that I was clearly stating a fact that whenever an adjustment takes place in the game that threatens those who have attained there lofty ranks by buying their way to the top that it has a tendency to go away because it has "Unbalanced" the game. And yes I have supported this game with buying crystals and I have up to date equipment. But I do believe skill should be rewarded too. And the developers have just severly hampered those who maybe enjoy the game and are good at it but are held back because they may not have the funds to improve their equipment. I also said that adjustments may be needed too. But that this time the developers overreacted instead of actually fixing the problem.

 

Actually, what first unbalanced the game was the hacking and later the sabotaging.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

guys these daily missions are the replacement of daily rewards,daily missions r better even if the reward is decreased by 50% (as compared to daily rewards)  for example-: u got 10 repairs and 25 mines as daily reward , but with daily missions the prize gets increased x3 (oh.... after this update its only 1.5) so the reward is still more than daily rewards.

thank you!

 

 

By "Nightmarefox"

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Critical analysis of this update:

 

I was sort of expecting this to come. This is probably the second worst update the game has ever received, first one being the Economic's change.

 

In all honesty, what developers said about the daily missions is a lie. The high rewards for the easy missions barely affect the gameplay in any way. What does get affected, on the other hand, are the profits of the Alternativa Platform company. Only a few people these days still playing the game actually speculate and connect the dots of what the developers do and why, most players simply run with it or try to find some sort of justification for developers making bad updates. The same is shown here; people don't like the high decrease in rewards of the missions, however still agree that to some extent the rewards should be decreased.

 

Lets speculate how the daily rewards, as to say, have moved from what they were to what they are now:

First each player got daily bonuses. This might have given an even bigger amount of crystals to players buying crystals, as they could also store up some more supplies and crystals for more gear and better gameplay. However, considering that the amount of your supplies doesn't matter too much as you could have two players, one having a hundred of each supply and another with a thousand of each supplie and each would still be able to beat each other in a match, depending on their garage item upgrades, of course. The daily gifts were something that instead of propping up buyers even more, propped up non-buyers, so a player could collect supplies and only after a week play the game to be ready for difficult battles.

The fact of the matter though is that developers of the game are looking to get more profit from the game's customers, in other words; us. They look into each aspect of the game to see how that could be more profitable to them - this can be shown through multiple updates and on how they impacted the game:

* Rebalance - though it was a nice feature to have all weapon atrengths equal as fully upgraded, this was jot done until the micro upgrades came in. This isn't though, what led the developers in getting more profit. What did led to more profit for them is that the whole garage became about x3 expensive. Had decent upgrades for weapons and hulls and good paints before rebalance? Well, now you're stuck with just one or two of each, regardless of your previous efforts.

* Economic's change - so far the most hated update in this game. The developers said, before the update's release that the point of it was to make it fairer in terms of funds, by letting the people lower in the score boards of battles get more crystals. However, what this turned out to be is an update aimed for more profit; the update reduced fund by half, which the developers only admitted to have done after they moved it up to 80% but not due to any sense of regret, but due to fear of more people leaving the game as a result of the game's fund hit, meaning that there would be less people purchasing crystals. Now, people loved it when the fund got increased after that, but what many players did not take into account is that the overall fund had been decreased by 20% long term. Is that something to celebrate? Or something to look back to and see the utmost corruption this company is making?

* From No-Supply battles to the so called "Pro" battles - No supply battles were the type of battles where instead of depending on supplies and having the risk of other players using supplies, you would simply depend on your gear and you skill, and if the people who make such battles decide to let boxes drop, then you could depend on that as a type of luck. The normal battles and no-supply battles as we knew it were pretty much self explanatory and made sense as well as held balance. But, as you might now see, developers like to put their money grabbing nose into every corner of the game, so they snuk into the no-supply mode as well; after the normal battles had lost their ability to let players use all their supplies at once, the so called "pro" battles replaced no-supply battles. Why were they renamed? Because the new mode had nothing to do with not using supplies, but quite the opposite; nkt only do you pay for entering such battles, but you also, in some cases are able to use supplies all at once, meaning that you might as well be wasting crystals on both entering the battle and the supplies you use in that battle. Does that sound like what a pro would do? No, more like something that a regular buyer would do, hence hkw this change was a way of increasing profits for the developers.

* Balancing of hulls and weapons - developers have said that they will never reach a point where the game is fully balanced in terms of hulls and weapons. They also mentioned that they will do their best to balance the game even more and more. The firat statement is true, however the second is an outright lie; the drastic changes of parameters of hulls and weapons have never been for the sake of balancing in order to make it better and therefore fairer for the players, but instead another way to gain profit. How? The buffing of hulls and weapons have been seen mainly in the least popular ones and drastic nerfs in the most popular ones. You might think that this might encourage more players to try out new varieties of weapons and hulls, however, let me explain how the aim is not that but rather profit. Say you use a very popular weapon, say freeze (freeze was quite popular in the early days of rebalance). You're happy with using your weapon most or half the time as it works well for you. What the developers then do is nerf that weapon almost to a point that it feels like it has a one big upgrade lower effectiveness than of the upgrade it is currently at. Then what they do is buff one of the most unpopular weapons like the Firebird (which was quite unpopular during the early stages after Rebalance update) and since you and many others do not have that weapon, you ought to be willing to buy it (they might even put a huge sale on it), but as we know most players cannot afford to buy more and more weapons and hulls and upgrade them to high parameters without buying crystals, so what are you, as to say blackmailed to do? To buy more crystals, increasing the profits of developers.

* Daily Missions - now we come to this update. I mentioned earlierthat the rewards of daily gifts beneffit the non-buyers. It may not seem so to many, but for developers in terms of profit, it is a problem. The missions would stop the people who enter the game daily and only play it like once a week or so from getting goods to prep for their up coming battles. However, the missions instead made people play a little longer to receive higher rewards than before, meaning they could enter the game, complete the missions and wait till the next day, getting a decent amount of gear to get new upgrades and such. So, it would be expected that developers would reduce the rewards, and similarly to Economic's change, it was reduced by 50%. This means that you'll need to put some more effort into getting, basically the same amount you got before missions were implemented through daily gifts, or on the other hand will put you in a state where you can't bare with the low amount of rewards you get from funds and missions for effort that takes quite a while and forces you into buying crystals, increasing profits of the company.

 

So overall, how the updates of this game function are that the developers put in an update which in theory might benefit them, and if that does not work, they change their approach and make up excuses, supposedly justified to not make the players too dissatisfied with the change of that update and if it then does not work, then they lobby; lobby the players by making another change, which will keep the players moderately satisfied if they don't speculate too much and let the developers get away with getting slightly more profit for their own interrests. Or, another approach would be to straight up make a drastic change bad for the players for the sake of proffiting, not mention of it and hoping that the players won't notice what they've done but if they do, then again, they lobby and get away with their sins.

 

This game isn't simply a game anymore, it is a production line, where the developers are the exploters and the players are the exploited. Don't think that I am making up fantasies, because if you look at almost any company these days, their ultimate aim is higher profit, as that is the system of capitalism we live in.

 

If the daily missions giving x3 reward that of daily gifts before really affected the economy of the game so badly, we wouldn't be seeing developers going to all these fancy game conventions, having them set up esports or have all the luxuries they have in the company, but most importantly; they wouldn't hide it all from us, nor the luxuries nor the math behind many of the drastic updates. If they truly cared, I wouldn't even be writing this!

Edited by AntaresXT
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

"If this update was going to ruin it's economy as they claim, why the hell even put it in the game and hype us up for it?"

 

And yet they do nothing about druggers pounding tanks to pieces when spawning (which is essentially crystal mining by running up the score and battle fund).

 

No, this was never about fixing missions and it never will be. I'd be shocked if missions remain beyond 2 weeks from now. This is nothing more than an underhanded way to get rid of the Daily Gifts by diverting our attention to something else, then, making the claim that it isn't working out as intended.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When people say "trust me" I've found later that they almost always are lying.

When they say "To tell you the truth" they are then either intentionally lying and trying to trick you into believing them or they usually lie except when they say they tell the truth.

Look, generally honest people do not go out of their way to tell you they're telling you the truth, because they are.

 

Anyway, when I came across that wording in the above super long article/review I decided to stop reading...

Edited by ChineseTankMan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When people say "trust me" I've found later that they almost always are lying.

When they say "To tell you the truth" they are then either intentionally lying and trying to trick you into believing them or they usually lie except when they say they tell the truth.Look, generally honest people do not go out of their way to tell you they're telling you the truth, because they are.

 

Anyway, when I came across that wording in the above super long article/review I decided to stop reading...

You probably won't get anywhere in life like that if you don't go into deep consideration of what another person has to say. Forums are for debates and not flme wars where one ignores the other just because they think they're right. This is how debates function, through direct democracy. If that's not what you prefer doing then what are you even doing on this forum? Edited by AntaresXT
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's is fine for me, daily missions were kinda ruining the game play.

I saw a lot of people "drugging" as called that, and  it wrecks the battles.I

think reward size -50% is a good idea. Though I would like to see more crystal missions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Critical analysis of this update:

 

I was sort of expecting this to come. This is probably the second worst update the game has ever received, first one being the Economic's change.

 

In all honesty, what developers said about the daily missions is a lie. The high rewards for the easy missions barely affect the gameplay in any way. What does get affected, on the other hand, are the profits of the Alternativa Platform company. Only a few people these days still playing the game actually speculate and connect the dots of what the developers do and why, most players simply run with it or try to find some sort of justification for developers making bad updates. The same is shown here; people don't like the high decrease in rewards of the missions, however still agree that to some extent the rewards should be decreased.

 

Lets speculate how the daily rewards, as to say, have moved from what they were to what they are now:

First each player got daily bonuses. This might have given an even bigger amount of crystals to players buying crystals, as they could also store up some more supplies and crystals for more gear and better gameplay. However, considering that the amount of your supplies doesn't matter too much as you could have two players, one having a hundred of each supply and another with a thousand of each supplie and each would still be able to beat each other in a match, depending on their garage item upgrades, of course. The daily gifts were something that instead of propping up buyers even more, propped up non-buyers, so a player could collect supplies and only after a week play the game to be ready for difficult battles.

The fact of the matter though is that developers of the game are looking to get more profit from the game's customers, in other words; us. They look into each aspect of the game to see how that could be more profitable to them - this can be shown through multiple updates and on how they impacted the game:

* Rebalance - though it was a nice feature to have all weapon atrengths equal as fully upgraded, this was jot done until the micro upgrades came in. This isn't though, what led the developers in getting more profit. What did led to more profit for them is that the whole garage became about x3 expensive. Had decent upgrades for weapons and hulls and good paints before rebalance? Well, now you're stuck with just one or two of each, regardless of your previous efforts.

* Economic's change - so far the most hated update in this game. The developers said, before the update's release that the point of it was to make it fairer in terms of funds, by letting the people lower in the score boards of battles get more crystals. However, what this turned out to be is an update aimed for more profit; the update reduced fund by half, which the developers only admitted to have done after they moved it up to 80% but not due to any sense of regret, but due to fear of more people leaving the game as a result of the game's fund hit, meaning that there would be less people purchasing crystals. Now, people loved it when the fund got increased after that, but what many players did not take into account is that the overall fund had been decreased by 20% long term. Is that something to celebrate? Or something to look back to and see the utmost corruption this company is making?

* From No-Supply battles to the so called "Pro" battles - No supply battles were the type of battles where instead of depending on supplies and having the risk of other players using supplies, you would simply depend on your gear and you skill, and if the people who make such battles decide to let boxes drop, then you could depend on that as a type of luck. The normal battles and no-supply battles as we knew it were pretty much self explanatory and made sense as well as held balance. But, as you might now see, developers like to put their money grabbing nose into every corner of the game, so they snuk into the no-supply mode as well; after the normal battles had lost their ability to let players use all their supplies at once, the so called "pro" battles replaced no-supply battles. Why were they renamed? Because the new mode had nothing to do with not using supplies, but quite the opposite; nkt only do you pay for entering such battles, but you also, in some cases are able to use supplies all at once, meaning that you might as well be wasting crystals on both entering the battle and the supplies you use in that battle. Does that sound like what a pro would do? No, more like something that a regular buyer would do, hence hkw this change was a way of increasing profits for the developers.

* Balancing of hulls and weapons - developers have said that they will never reach a point where the game is fully balanced in terms of hulls and weapons. They also mentioned that they will do their best to balance the game even more and more. The firat statement is true, however the second is an outright lie; the drastic changes of parameters of hulls and weapons have never been for the sake of balancing in order to make it better and therefore fairer for the players, but instead another way to gain profit. How? The buffing of hulls and weapons have been seen mainly in the least popular ones and drastic nerfs in the most popular ones. You might think that this might encourage more players to try out new varieties of weapons and hulls, however, let me explain how the aim is not that but rather profit. Say you use a very popular weapon, say freeze (freeze was quite popular in the early days of rebalance). You're happy with using your weapon most or half the time as it works well for you. What the developers then do is nerf that weapon almost to a point that it feels like it has a one big upgrade lower effectiveness than of the upgrade it is currently at. Then what they do is buff one of the most unpopular weapons like the Firebird (which was quite unpopular during the early stages after Rebalance update) and since you and many others do not have that weapon, you ought to be willing to buy it (they might even put a huge sale on it), but as we know most players cannot afford to buy more and more weapons and hulls and upgrade them to high parameters without buying crystals, so what are you, as to say blackmailed to do? To buy more crystals, increasing the profits of developers.

* Daily Missions - now we come to this update. I mentioned earlierthat the rewards of daily gifts beneffit the non-buyers. It may not seem so to many, but for developers in terms of profit, it is a problem. The missions would stop the people who enter the game daily and only play it like once a week or so from getting goods to prep for their up coming battles. However, the missions instead made people play a little longer to receive higher rewards than before, meaning they could enter the game, complete the missions and wait till the next day, getting a decent amount of gear to get new upgrades and such. So, it would be expected that developers would reduce the rewards, and similarly to Economic's change, it was reduced by 50%. This means that you'll need to put some more effort into getting, basically the same amount you got before missions were implemented through daily gifts, or on the other hand will put you in a state where you can't bare with the low amount of rewards you get from funds and missions for effort that takes quite a while and forces you into buying crystals, increasing profits of the company.

 

So overall, how the updates of this game function are that the developers put in an update which in theory might benefit them, and if that does not work, they change their approach and make up excuses, supposedly justified to not make the players too dissatisfied with the change of that update and if it then does not work, then they lobby; lobby the players by making another change, which will keep the players moderately satisfied if they don't speculate too much and let the developers get away with getting slightly more profit for their own interrests. Or, another approach would be to straight up make a drastic change bad for the players for the sake of proffiting, not mention of it and hoping that the players won't notice what they've done but if they do, then again, they lobby and get away with their sins.

 

This game isn't simply a game anymore, it is a production line, where the developers are the exploters and the players are the exploited. Don't think that I am making up fantasies, because if you look at almost any company these days, their ultimate aim is higher profit, as that is the system of capitalism we live in.

 

If the daily missions giving x3 reward that of daily gifts before really affected the economy of the game so badly, we wouldn't be seeing developers going to all these fancy game conventions, having them set up esports or have all the luxuries they have in the company, but most importantly; they wouldn't hide it all from us, nor the luxuries nor the math behind many of the drastic updates. If they truly cared, I wouldn't even be writing this!

yep

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, what first unbalanced the game was the hacking and later the sabotaging.

How pathetic from you! That guy wrote a whole bunch of points disproving what you said and all you said in return is some hacking and sabotague?! What?! You didn't even bother to address his points one by one! You think you're right just because you have a whole bunch of players backing you up on what you have to say?! You, dear player, are pathetic!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You probably won't get anywhere in life like that if you don't go into deep consideration of what another person has to say. Forums are for debates and not flme wars where one ignores the other just because they think they're right. This is how debates function, through direct democracy. If that's not what you prefer doing then what are you even doing on this forum?

 

Actually, if you bothered to read my responses to others you'll have noticed that I have too frequently gone into deep consideration of what the other person had to say.

But based on this person's introduction, the initial attitude of their wording, and my experiences and observations of others (plus what psychology points out), I responded the way I did for those very reasons.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How pathetic from you! That guy wrote a whole bunch of points disproving what you said and all you said in return is some hacking and sabotague?! What?! You didn't even bother to address his points one by one! You think you're right just because you have a whole bunch of players backing you up on what you have to say?! You, dear player, are pathetic!

Thank you.

EDIT: you obviously didn't go back to previous pages to see that I already responded to the same concepts by others.

Edited by ChineseTankMan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The same wording in the crystals purchasing thread:

 

 

 

Upon careful revision, we realized that implementing the measures in question all at once would have affected the game’s economy negatively. So we’ve decided to withhold them for now, until we can find a more gradual way of implementing them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol. Are developers even looking at this feedback?

Feedback ignored much ?. . .  :P

So that's what they do. Update and then ignore ignore ignore ignore ignore ignore ignore ignore ignore.

Then. . . .omg update was success. YES! GOOD JOB! :lol: Funny.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol. Are developers even looking at this feedback?

Feedback ignored much ?. . .  :P

So that's what they do. Update and then ignore ignore ignore ignore ignore ignore ignore ignore ignore.

Then. . . .omg update was success. YES! GOOD JOB! :lol: Funny.

It's stupid how they do random **** without reading comments, especially with rebalance. They did some random, stupid things to Freeze, lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OMG what the hell is this? :O :O worst changes in tank I ever seen I should get at least 3k for killing 100 tanks not 1k -_- !!!! I knew something would ruin this!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When people say "trust me" I've found later that they almost always are lying.

When they say "To tell you the truth" they are then either intentionally lying and trying to trick you into believing them or they usually lie except when they say they tell the truth.

 

Look, generally honest people do not go out of their way to tell you they're telling you the truth, because they are.

 

Anyway, when I came across that wording in the above super long article/review I decided to stop reading...

 

And that is why what you write has very little merrit. You cover your eyes when you come across things you don't like. It's one thing to refute arguments with facts. In fact you could have more information that would clarify the situation, but instead sharing it, you lower yourself to childish remarks, like that above, and completely ignore any facts that threaten your world view, which is proven out further by your following comment.

 

But based on this person's introduction, the initial attitude of their wording, and my experiences and observations of others (plus what psychology points out), I responded the way I did for those very reasons.

You try to make it sound like you are so intellegent, but it is quite clear from this and other comments that you have made, that you are fully behind anything that the developers do, no matter what it is.  I also believe that there is a strong possibility that you must have some kind of ties to them in order to put forth the remarks you have. So I will say this, if they continue down this path of shutting down every avenue that, shall we say, less fortunate players can level up their equipment, then in time most people will tire of the game and it will fail. And sad to say, one of the funnest tank games I've played will fade away.

 

In answer to your earlier comment,.... for the most part, the one thing I admire most about this game is that the developers have been very good about countering hackers and that is why I like it so much. Having endured games where hacking is rampant this is indeed a refreshing change. Also Drugging is the one thing that does unbalance the game more than anything else. But like I said earlier that will never change because the developers make too much money off it. That is why we no longer have the option to exclude it unless you're willing to PAY for a pro pass.

 

Oh by the way, you still didn't answer my question about how much drugging you do in the game.

Edited by Dliver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...