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[Tani_S 736]

Thank you! These descriptions are a lot better. Maybe the players will need a graphic like this one from Blackwasp, to better understand the range of max. damage (on a separate game mechanics page).

By this I see the main things in the wiki clarified. Yet there are some things, which do not fit to the game experience:

1) False values for weak damages for short-rangers i.e. Rico & Twins. They should be 0 like the prebalance values, since they don't make damage beyond the range of min. damage.

2) Wrong naming of Thunder's "Splash Damage" entry, because it is an impact force parameter.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Tani_S

[Shedinja 1,488]

This would help.

 

And this has to be implemented for the "Turrets" main page and the "Thunder" page as well. Thank you! :)

Revised for both Thunder and Smoky's descriptions. The Turrets section has also been transformed slightly to accommodate for this information.

 

Thank you! These descriptions are a lot better. Maybe the players will need a graphic like this one from Blackwasp, to better understand the range of max. damage (on a separate game mechanics page).

By this I see the main things in the wiki clarified. Yet there are some things, which do not fit to the game experience:

1) False values for weak damages for short-rangers i.e. Rico & Twins. They should be 0 like the prebalance values, since they don't make damage beyond the range of min. damage.

2) Wrong naming of Thunder's "Splash Damage" entry, because it is an impact force parameter.

I was considering bringing up the idea of a series of graph systems for each weapon, and this seems like it would be a good outlet for it. I'll see if I can organize something over the course of the next month or so.

 

For #1, those values are how much damage a shot deals at the end of the minimum range. They describe the minimum percentage limit of damage a Twins projectile deals at that range before dying out. Essentially, you will never fire a Twins bullet and deal anything less than 10% of its total damage.

 

As for #2, I'm not sure I fully understand what you're stating. Is the name Splash Damage listed over something that should not be listed as Splash Damage, or should something be named Splash Damage that isn't named Splash Damage?

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

For #1, those values are how much damage a shot deals at the end of the minimum range. They describe the minimum percentage limit of damage a Twins projectile deals at that range before dying out. Essentially, you will never fire a Twins bullet and deal anything less than 10% of its total damage.

The thing is, that the twins page does not describe the "dying out". In fact it reads more like an infinte flying bullet :P. See yourself, this is the weak damage definition from the Twins page:

 

Weak damage (%) — the % of normal damage dealt to an enemy at distances bigger than minimum damage range.

 

Same applies for Rico (and for Thunder Splash.. it ends at it's minDmgRadius)

 

Actually you would either need to describe that the bullets die out.. or you introduce some kind of "cut-off" range. But I guess the description is more usefull, as you can continue to reuse the russian data tables.

Edited November 16, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

• Cone angle (deg) — damage dealt at the end of damage cone. Turret does not deal damage outside the cone.

Can you please fix this? The cone angle has nothing to do with damage, it measures the spread of the shot.

 

 

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

And also:  In the "In depth: Game Mechanics" section , it shows the cone angle as starting both ways from a line that extends directly from the turret.  But any player can tell you that this is much wider than firebird's actual cone angle.  The cone angle in the illustration is actually 40 degrees (20+20), while the wiki says it's 20 degrees.  Clearly, the wiki is right, but this illustration is wrong.  It should actually be "+10 / -10 for a total of 20 degrees.

Edited November 16, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[Tani_S 736]

 

 

Revised for both Thunder and Smoky's descriptions. The Turrets section has also been transformed slightly to accommodate for this information.

 

I was considering bringing up the idea of a series of graph systems for each weapon, and this seems like it would be a good outlet for it. I'll see if I can organize something over the course of the next month or so.

 

For #1, those values are how much damage a shot deals at the end of the minimum range. They describe the minimum percentage limit of damage a Twins projectile deals at that range before dying out. Essentially, you will never fire a Twins bullet and deal anything less than 10% of its total damage.

 

As for #2, I'm not sure I fully understand what you're stating. Is the name Splash Damage listed over something that should not be listed as Splash Damage, or should something be named Splash Damage that isn't named Splash Damage?

 

 

 

Yeah that graph system idea for each weapon sounds indeed great! Thank you very much!

 

1) My answer would be same as Blackwasp's. Weak damage > 0 is for my understanding an infinite shot in one direction (though with low damage).

 

2) I mean the entry which is already listed in Thunder's parameter table with the name "splash damage". This one has no description, but there is already a description for "Explosion impact". But "Explosion impact" cannot be found in the table. The values of "splash damage" are way too high for a damage parameter (well for prebalance conditions at least and this one wasn't multiplied by 10 then) and they are nearly the same as the impact force parameter. In the Global update of the game balance sheet and in the German wiki it shows that this parameter is an impact force parameter, too. I think the best way is to rename the "splash damage" to "Explosion impact".

 

 

 

By the way, this whole thing shows, that there is no original splash damage parameter, which leads me to think that the splash damage is totally made up out of the damage that the Thunder inflicts when hitting a tank, but it is just further reduced through the decrease from the splash range (so Splash damage at splash range = 0 m => at impact point, is the same as the Thunder's original damage). This is also conform to my in-game experience.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Tani_S

[fordmustang12345 3,910]

Can you guys please update the Product Kits page? I wouldn't think it would be very hard. Mostly updating the M3 kits rank unlock and expiration and the prices

[Shedinja 1,488]

Yeah that graph system idea for each weapon sounds indeed great! Thank you very much!

 

1) My answer would be same as Blackwasp's. Weak damage > 0 is for my understanding an infinite shot in one direction (though with low damage).

 

2) I mean the entry which is already listed in Thunder's parameter table with the name "splash damage". This one has no description, but there is already a description for "Explosion impact". But "Explosion impact" cannot be found in the table. The values of "splash damage" are way too high for a damage parameter (well for prebalance conditions at least and this one wasn't multiplied by 10 then) and they are nearly the same as the impact force parameter. In the Global update of the game balance sheet and in the German wiki it shows that this parameter is an impact force parameter, too. I think the best way is to rename the "splash damage" to "Explosion impact".

 

 

 

By the way, this whole thing shows, that there is no original splash damage parameter, which leads me to think that the splash damage is totally made up out of the damage that the Thunder inflicts when hitting a tank, but it is just further reduced through the decrease from the splash range (so Splash damage at splash range = 0 m => at impact point, is the same as the Thunder's original damage). This is also conform to my in-game experience.

I've looked at the page, and there's clearly some sort of missing information. Either data was not translated properly, or something was mislabeled. If this was explosion force, as you stated, then there would be no splash damage data. I'll conduct a few tests tomorrow to ascertain that this is indeed explosion impact, and that splash damage is dealt similar as to how Smoky's minimum range data works. (i.e. The damage minimums and maximums start at 100%, and decrease the further the shell is from the target in accordance with Thunder's splash range stats.) As of today, though, I'm not certain enough that this needs to be changed yet.

 

Can you please fix this? The cone angle has nothing to do with damage, it measures the spread of the shot.

 

 

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

And also:  In the "In depth: Game Mechanics" section , it shows the cone angle as starting both ways from a line that extends directly from the turret.  But any player can tell you that this is much wider than firebird's actual cone angle.  The cone angle in the illustration is actually 40 degrees (20+20), while the wiki says it's 20 degrees.  Clearly, the wiki is right, but this illustration is wrong.  It should actually be "+10 / -10 for a total of 20 degrees.

The cone angle definitions have been reworked for Firebird, Freeze, and Isida. However, the images may need a bit more time for repair, they won't be long. I'll take a look and make measurements of each weapon's conic range tomorrow, just in case.

 

The thing is, that the twins page does not describe the "dying out". In fact it reads more like an infinte flying bullet :P. See yourself, this is the weak damage definition from the Twins page:

 

 

Same applies for Rico (and for Thunder Splash.. it ends at it's minDmgRadius)

 

Actually you would either need to describe that the bullets die out.. or you introduce some kind of "cut-off" range. But I guess the description is more usefull, as you can continue to reuse the russian data tables.

The Weak Damage definition was likely copy/pasted there from a long time ago, when a minimum range was still non-redundant data for weapons like these. Both Ricochet and Twins pages have been edited accordingly, as to insinuate that damage stops when the minimum range is hit. However, if you look closely at the Thunder's Weak Damage Splash description, it states the following: 

 

• Weak damage splash (%) — the % or normal damage dealt at a distance from the projectile's impact point, equal to minimum damage radius.

 

This states that the end of the splash damage range is the weak damage, and that there is no segment from the radius of the splash zone that does not decrease when spreading outward from the point of the shell's impact.

 

Can you guys please update the Product Kits page? I wouldn't think it would be very hard. Mostly updating the M3 kits rank unlock and expiration and the prices

We can only modify the kit prices when we receive all of the necessary data to record the new ones. We have not gathered said information from the proper authorities yet, but once we do, these will be corrected and updated.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Thanks for the updates and the great job !  :)

[Shedinja 1,488]

I was able to conduct some tests this morning, and I was able to confirm firsthand that the splash damage values correspond properly with the damage distribution for Thunder (100% at epicenter, then decreasing at linear rate to 25% at the radius' endpoint), and also prove the impact force for Thunder's splash correlates properly with the given data. These prove the misnomenclature of "Splash Damage", as Tani_S stated before, and it has been rectified to be an "Explosion Impact" label.

 

I have also taken measurements and confirmed that Firebird, Freeze and Isida all indeed sport a 20º conic spread, but modifying the images under In Depth: Game Mechanics will take some more time. Rest assured that it will be completed eventually, though.

 

Thanks for the updates and the great job !  :)

Thank you, glad I can be of assistance.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Shedinja

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

I assume it would be less usefull to change the names of the parameters of the damage mode in the English community only, as I assume they have to be "standardised" through out the communities.

 

But if you come across a chance of a new naming system, then I like to propose the one below, as I think it is more intuitive.

It would be a good chance to do this before the graphics for the turrets will be crafted. But it's not of high priority IMHO.. having pics that explain todays parameter names are fine as well.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[Shedinja 1,488]

I assume it would be less usefull to change the names of the parameters of the damage mode in the English community only, as I assume they have to be "standardised" through out the communities.

 

But if you come across a chance of a new naming system, then I like to propose the one below, as I think it is more intuitive.

It would be a good chance to do this before the graphics for the turrets will be crafted. But it's not of high priority IMHO.. having pics that explain todays parameter names are fine as well.

 

 

 

 

 

For the sake of translation and basic clarity, the descriptions we have on the Wiki page currently are the most convenient for setting up and explaining details. If the graph series can be established, however, then it's more likely than not that specified and defined names could be constructed for those, but only within the boundaries of the graphs. The graphs, if constructed, may be subject to a separate category for tankers more interested in weapon statistics than normal, since admittedly, not everyone playing is mathematically and logically inclined to check and understand these.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Shedinja

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

ok, I understand.

 

I'd like to bring to your attention, that since the introduction of the damage indicators, a lot of tankers wonder why their "Thunder Mx" does not deal "maxDamage" at close range... I saw this question running around for about 3 weeks now.

 

I guess it would help them (also the non-mathematical inclined ones) a lot if the wiki would give an easy scematic of the damage-range-model (not stating detailed numbers, but just the names that refer to the table).

If this scematic features one _additional_ line names "average damage", then this should give them enough clues to have less questions.

 

But don't worry, I don't argue about it, I just propose it. Your team decides ;)

[Tani_S 736]

I was able to conduct some tests this morning, and I was able to confirm firsthand that the splash damage values correspond properly with the damage distribution for Thunder (100% at epicenter, then decreasing at linear rate to 25% at the radius' endpoint), and also prove the impact force for Thunder's splash correlates properly with the given data. These prove the misnomenclature of "Splash Damage", as @Tani_S stated before, and it has been rectified to be an "Explosion Impact" label.

 

I have also taken measurements and confirmed that Firebird, Freeze and Isida all indeed sport a 20º conic spread, but modifying the images under In Depth: Game Mechanics will take some more time. Rest assured that it will be completed eventually, though.

 

Thank you, glad I can be of assistance.

Great, thanks a lot!  :)

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Page updated :)

[Phoenix.Raised 5,992]

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Page updated :)

Thank you admin :)

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

• Min burning damage (HP/sec) — minimum extra damage dealt to an enemy tank per second that occurs due to heating of enemy's hull. At the moment of shooting, basic damage and burning damage are summed up (the more time you spend attacking an enemy, the higher the burning damage).
• Max burning damage (HP/sec) — maximum extra damage dealt to an enemy tank per second that occurs due to heating of enemy's hull. At the moment of shooting, basic damage and burning damage are summed up (the more time you spend attacking an enemy, the higher the burning damage).
• Min burning damage (/tick) 1 1 1 1 1 Max burning damage (/tick) 30 30 30 30 30

A tick is not the same as second. Could you please change the description of the max and min burning damage to "tick" instead of HP/sec, or put 150 instead of 30 for all the Max burn values? Thanks.

[Shedinja 1,488]

 

• Min burning damage (HP/sec) — minimum extra damage dealt to an enemy tank per second that occurs due to heating of enemy's hull. At the moment of shooting, basic damage and burning damage are summed up (the more time you spend attacking an enemy, the higher the burning damage).
• Max burning damage (HP/sec) — maximum extra damage dealt to an enemy tank per second that occurs due to heating of enemy's hull. At the moment of shooting, basic damage and burning damage are summed up (the more time you spend attacking an enemy, the higher the burning damage).
• Min burning damage (/tick) 1 1 1 1 1 Max burning damage (/tick) 30 30 30 30 30

A tick is not the same as second. Could you please change the description of the max and min burning damage to "tick" instead of HP/sec, or put 150 instead of 30 for all the Max burn values? Thanks.

 

Items have been edited accordingly.

[Tani_S 736]

Does the Damage counter for Fire(&afterburn) / Isida / Freeze in the game work in tick phases, so does it show the damage/healing with every tick? You said, that a tick is half a second. I couldn't find a (maybe official) description in the wiki about the tick tho. The indication of parameter page could be a place for it, perhaps at the special Damage icon for the 3 melee turrets.

 

Here some minor things that would need some adjustments in the Wiki:

• Freeze description for "Rate of freezing" and "Rate of unfreezing" speaks of "(temp/sec)", the table says "(/tick)"
• Firebird XT description for "Max burning damage (sec)" should be (/tick)
• Firebird XT description says "Damage (tick)" and table says "Damage (/sec)"
• Isida: Units for Temperature Increase and decrease in the table are missing

Some other things, which I think could be perhaps changed:

• Rename Vulcan's "Temperature limit" into "Overheating Time" or "Time till Overheat", because it is not a temperature measure, but a time frame and could be confused with the Maximum Overheat Temperature (which is indeed a temp. parameter)
• Shaft's description talks of the "Penetrating power (%)", but there is none in the table. So either make a table line with "0" values, remove this description or tell in the general description that Shaft has no penetration power anymore since the current update.
• I miss the values for the horizontal auto-aim parameter, especially for Vulcan. But I guess that this is a decision of the devs.

Edit: added a few points

Edited November 19, 2016 by Tani_S

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

damage tick (as far as I know) was changed to 0,25sec @30 Jun 2015
 

Isida
Now the turret deals damage twice as often.
Damage is dealt every 0,25 second instead of 0,5

 
source: post#1

Edited November 19, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

 

 

I think a "tick" is one-fifth of a second, actually. It's not to be confused with how fast the damage counters pop up.  I did some extensive testing and calculations to figure out a tick is 1/5 of a second.  Either that, or they need to revamp a lot of statistics because they are wrong.

[Tani_S 736]

Well it's time for some alignment I think  :P  I don't know what's the benefit of that tick anyway, if it is also not the same time frame for the damage counter.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Tani_S

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Well it's time for some alignment I think  :P  I don't know what's the use of that tick anyway, if it also not the same time frame for the damage counter.

No use at all IMO. Best to align everything to hp/sec. :)

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

 Piercing damage (%) 24.71 30.59 42.35 47.06 60

Shaft has no penetrating power anymore. :( Please remove this statistic, thanks.

Edited November 19, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[Shedinja 1,488]

Does the Damage counter for Fire(&afterburn) / Isida / Freeze in the game work in tick phases, so does it show the damage/healing with every tick? You said, that a tick is half a second. I couldn't find a (maybe official) description in the wiki about the tick tho. The indication of parameter page could be a place for it, perhaps at the special Damage icon for the 3 melee turrets.

 

Here some minor things that would need some adjustments in the Wiki:

• Freeze description for "Rate of freezing" and "Rate of unfreezing" speaks of "(temp/sec)", the table says "(/tick)"
• Firebird XT description for "Max burning damage (sec)" should be (/tick)
• Firebird XT description says "Damage (tick)" and table says "Damage (/sec)"
• Isida: Units for Temperature Increase and decrease in the table are missing

Some other things, which I think could be perhaps changed:

• Rename Vulcan's "Temperature limit" into "Overheating Time" or "Time till Overheat", because it is not a temperature measure, but a time frame and could be confused with the Maximum Overheat Temperature (which is indeed a temp. parameter)
• Shaft's description talks of the "Penetrating power (%)", but there is none in the table. So either make a table line with "0" values, remove this description or tell in the general description that Shaft has no penetration power anymore since the current update.
• I miss the values for the horizontal auto-aim parameter, especially for Vulcan. But I guess that this is a decision of the devs.

Edit: added a few points

Shaft's Penetration Power description has been removed. Since it has none, the value is redundant, and no longer needs to be there. However, Isida's values for temperature increase and decrease should not indeed be missing; I'll request for them. Vulcan's description has been changed, thank you for pointing that out.

 

I'll try and request weapons' horizontal auto-aim stats; they should be included, since they're large enough to be considered recordable statistics.

 

I think a "tick" is one-fifth of a second, actually. It's not to be confused with how fast the damage counters pop up.  I did some extensive testing and calculations to figure out a tick is 1/5 of a second.  Either that, or they need to revamp a lot of statistics because they are wrong.

Regardless of what value a tick is, the settings for each page will no longer support them, but to the smallest degree in seconds of which damage is applied. Say, for example, Firebird M0 deals 35 damage every time it hits. Since damage is dealt every fourth of a second, it will be listed as Firebird M0 = 35 dam/(sec/4). There will also be a box for damage dealt per second for all cumulative damage weapons, such as Firebird, Freeze, Vulcan, Isida and Twins, or weapons that deal damage more than once per second. (Firebird's burning effect will not be included.)

 

This will take some time to construct, but it'll be completed before the next week is out.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

 

Thank you. I have another request, though. :D  Could you put a notice in the cumulative damage tables that firebird's burn damage is not included and is applied to the normal damage in battle? This would help people not be mislead into thinking firebird and freeze do the same practical damage, or that firebird m4 can only do 840 hp/sec max.

 

 

 

(P.S. firebird m0 does 70 damage every fourth-second...)