Players switching between teams at same game

[D_R_I_N_K 29]

Hi folks,

Glad to be a member of One of the Best arcade games  - Tanki Online !

Here is my suggest :
When the player join a team, and let's say this team is leading in the game for a while, because of not member on the opposite team. But in some point starts joining more players in the enemy team, the players should not be able to switch between the teams by the end of the battle.WHY!? Because many "clan" players are making false team and they switch to their friends and getting sometimes huge advantage. It is kind of multing and cheating , isn't it? :)Of course same player can join his friend's team  only when the new game start or he can quit the game and join some other map.
Simple, but very afactive in war against mults!

That's all from me, SeriousVasilis!

See You in the game and good luck!

 

 

------
BR,
Vasil

[Maf 32,339]

I don't really understand your reasoning. You say that it's "cheating" when your team is winning and a player from your team switches over to the enemy team. This doesn't make sense to me, since in my opinion it's a good thing to do when you see that your team dominates and the other team is leaving, so you switch to keep the game interesting. I rarely see clans use it to their advantage, so adding your idea will be more of an inconvenience, instead of a benefit.

[D_R_I_N_K 29]

I don't really understand your reasoning. You say that it's "cheating" when your team is winning and a player from your team switches over to the enemy team. This doesn't make sense to me, since in my opinion it's a good thing to do when you see that your team dominates and the other team is leaving, so you switch to keep the game interesting. I rarely see clans use it to their advantage, so adding your idea will be more of an inconvenience, instead of a benefit.

well , lets take an example:

 

Player 1+Player2 join to RED team , in which already has players equal to BLUE team. But in blue team are already their friends, OK! So , at that moment there are two open places for BLUE team , which till know the loosing score, and in this two places are joining their friends. After red team already got win in score with few flags , Player 1 and 2 get out and many low rank players see that even less players RED team is better than blue and they joijn.After that player 1 and 2 have place and clicking all the time , they join to their own team - BLUE. who in fact get lower rank enemy and they ALREADY SAW and READ the tacktics of red team.

 

So , if you join a team, u must be loyal to this team by the end of the game frame. And that's why i called it cheating!

 

But, thanks for reply !

[dilsharox 2,395]

It's their choice to switch teams and it's not against the rules

[dfoofnik 341]

 

Hi folks,

 

Glad to be a member of One of the Best arcade games  - Tanki Online 

<snip>

Because many "clan" players are making false team and they switch to their friends and getting sometimes huge advantage. It is kind of multing and cheating , isn't it? :)Of course same player can join his friend's team  only when the new game start or he can quit the game and join some other map.

Simple, but very [effective] in war against mults!

 

What you see is "phony players" being used to populate the enemy team. Tanki has never tried seriously to stop this.

http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/dfoofnik/media/Shills%20and%20Raiders%20on%20Monte%20Carlo.png.html?

Here, a 5 vs 5 battle became a 10 against 5 in about 45 seconds.

 

Well, all I can say is, with all the raiders and mults, Tanki has foolishly and negligently "poisoned the well" and only those (cheating, manipulating, despicable) players and maybe some clans will go to Unity. The other players, disgusted with the state of affairs (and the lackadaisical unwillingness of the devs to deal with it) will just forgo the game completely. And when Tanki is no more, they will be shrugging their shoulders and saying "well, we tried our best" when the truth is that they are either inept, blinded by profit motive, or managed in an incredibly poor way. And then they will do it again on another game.

[PuncherTank 37]

I like to call this a "clan trap", and it usually happens in long PRO battles. A clan creates a new battle on their favorite map, and instead of waiting for other players to join (which may take a long time), half the clan members would join red and the other joins blue with the intention of switching sides so they all end up playing on the same team. This makes the new battle appear active and "victims" start joining both sides until the teams are full. At this point clan members will keep playing actively on both sides until a decent fund is raised and then they do their trick.
They usually have a favorite side (let's say it's red), so clan players on the blue side will gradually leave and wait for a spot on the red team to become available to join their friends. If non-clan players on the red team won't leave, they'll be "forced" to leave. The clan will stall the game and make it appear "hopeless" for as long as it takes for most of the non-clan members to leave their place for the clan members constantly clicking the "Play" button. During the battle, clan members may switch sides multiple times to keep the game active and attract new unknowing "victims" to fill the place of those who leave. When there's a big enough fund they'll all end up on one side, finish the match whenever they decide to and get most of the reward. They can literally control the course of the match by stalling it, playing hard to force players on the opposite side to give up and leave, playing weak to force players on their side to give up and leave, bullying/not helping the players on their side when they refuse to leave, and leaving/rejoining the battle.

Unless the "trapper" clan somehow end up against another clan on the other side, which mostly doesn't happen, they WILL win the battle even if the score is 95:10 in favor of the other team (out of 100 flags). The better, maxed out equipment and cooperation gives the clan members a decisive advantage that enables them to win against any team of random players. They may spend hours just killing and raising the fund without seriously attacking, which may give the other side the illusion that they are unable to attack/win and so there may be some hope to win the battle. But when the clan finally decide to end it, they will all attack in full force and capture all the remaining flags in minutes. That's when the "victims" will helplessly watch and realize they have been taken for a ride.

The fact that it's not against the rules doesn't make it acceptable. This is one of the frustrating downsides of the game and the sad thing is that it's ok by the rules. Now, who's going to be smart and tell me to only play non-PRO short battles to avoid this? Did you consider why many players choose to play such matches when there are so many short matches available?

This kind of players (clans) are more damaging to game experience than mults.

The best way to fix this (and many other issues in the game) is by having a fully-automated matchmaker system instead of allowing players to create and join battles themselves.

[QueenSeraphina 407]

A very good idea that might stop raiding battles once and for all. :)

[D_R_I_N_K 29]

Hopefully Tanki Online will get seriously this problem and as PuncherTank said, having a fully-automated matchmaker system instead of allowing players to create and join battles themselves.

I believe it is important part of the game structure , where they should focus alot. 

[Maf 32,339]

well , lets take an example:

 

Player 1+Player2 join to RED team , in which already has players equal to BLUE team. But in blue team are already their friends, OK! So , at that moment there are two open places for BLUE team , which till know the loosing score, and in this two places are joining their friends. After red team already got win in score with few flags , Player 1 and 2 get out and many low rank players see that even less players RED team is better than blue and they joijn.After that player 1 and 2 have place and clicking all the time , they join to their own team - BLUE. who in fact get lower rank enemy and they ALREADY SAW and READ the tacktics of red team.

 

So , if you join a team, u must be loyal to this team by the end of the game frame. And that's why i called it cheating!

 

But, thanks for reply !

It's impossible for 2 players to join the same team like that. Once Player 1 enters, Player 2 will have to wait.

There is no guarantee that only low rank players will join.

Not effective. If it's towards the end of a battle, players rarely leave.

Don't try and get tactics into this. Tactics only apply in eSports, while in random battles it makes no difference.

 

Anyway, it's their right to choose what side they want to play on. 

[MrCheezyPotato 850]

Iv noticed that most of the time people only choose the winning team and leave if they are loseing...i hate that. I seem to be one of the only people who arnt selfish crystal hunters as if the other teams is being wreked and we are either 1/2 or 1/4 into tye battle then illgo onto loseing team. DEVELOPERS LOOK AT THIS---> IV BEEN ON A TEAM THAT HAD 3 PEOPLE INCLUDING ME AND MORE PEOPLE KEEP JOINING OTHER TEAM UNTIL ITS LIKE 10V3!!!!! FIX THAT SO PEOPLE CAN ONLY JOIN LOSING TEAM IF THEY ARE LOSING ALOT OR SO THAT IT CANT BE 10V3 EVEN THOUGH NOBODY HAS LEFT THE BATTLE!!! Also, fix the way teams are made at end of battle, i lost a battle by alot then when new game started the teams were EXACTLY THE SAME! Im a very good tanki player but i have such bad stats because im always on the losing team and the other teams is at least an entire rank up. Im ussaly in first place or withing 1-4th place so dont think im complaning because i suck. Whenever im on winning team i rek other team then they rage quit so i get most battle fund, thats only reason i still have good equipment.noobs dont have 60% micro upgraded richochet

[SpeedyRailgun 183]

well , lets take an example:

 

Player 1+Player2 join to RED team , in which already has players equal to BLUE team. But in blue team are already their friends, OK! So , at that moment there are two open places for BLUE team , which till know the loosing score, and in this two places are joining their friends. After red team already got win in score with few flags , Player 1 and 2 get out and many low rank players see that even less players RED team is better than blue and they joijn.After that player 1 and 2 have place and clicking all the time , they join to their own team - BLUE. who in fact get lower rank enemy and they ALREADY SAW and READ the tacktics of red team.

 

So , if you join a team, u must be loyal to this team by the end of the game frame. And that's why i called it cheating!

 

But, thanks for reply !

Wait. So if we are fighting 1 vs 5 i cant go and help that guy, who is alone and get him mad on us? or what is your idea :D

[SpeedyRailgun 183]

Iv noticed that most of the time people only choose the winning team and leave if they are loseing...i hate that. I seem to be one of the only people who arnt selfish crystal hunters as if the other teams is being wreked and we are either 1/2 or 1/4 into tye battle then illgo onto loseing team. DEVELOPERS LOOK AT THIS---> IV BEEN ON A TEAM THAT HAD 3 PEOPLE INCLUDING ME AND MORE PEOPLE KEEP JOINING OTHER TEAM UNTIL ITS LIKE 10V3!!!!! FIX THAT SO PEOPLE CAN ONLY JOIN LOSING TEAM IF THEY ARE LOSING ALOT OR SO THAT IT CANT BE 10V3 EVEN THOUGH NOBODY HAS LEFT THE BATTLE!!! Also, fix the way teams are made at end of battle, i lost a battle by alot then when new game started the teams were EXACTLY THE SAME! Im a very good tanki player but i have such bad stats because im always on the losing team and the other teams is at least an entire rank up. Im ussaly in first place or withing 1-4th place so dont think im complaning because i suck. Whenever im on winning team i rek other team then they rage quit so i get most battle fund, thats only reason i still have good equipment.noobs dont have 60% micro upgraded richochet

I agree with you. MOST of the players. Not all players.

I hate to be in winners team. its booring.

[SpeedyRailgun 183]

It's impossible for 2 players to join the same team like that. Once Player 1 enters, Player 2 will have to wait.

There is no guarantee that only low rank players will join.

Not effective. If it's towards the end of a battle, players rarely leave.

Don't try and get tactics into this. Tactics only apply in eSports, while in random battles it makes no difference.

 

Anyway, it's their right to choose what side they want to play on. 

Realy u think its impossible to do? Try it with you friend! like on 3, 2, 1, CLICK and u will see. 

[D_R_I_N_K 29]

It's impossible for 2 players to join the same team like that. Once Player 1 enters, Player 2 will have to wait.

There is no guarantee that only low rank players will join.

Not effective. If it's towards the end of a battle, players rarely leave.

Don't try and get tactics into this. Tactics only apply in eSports, while in random battles it makes no difference.

 

Anyway, it's their right to choose what side they want to play on. 

they can choose, and they have already made their choice for battle side!

If they dont like their teammates or team, just leave and go to another map. There are hundreds of maps at that time, but to switch to other team is betrayal. 

 

 

 

[D_R_I_N_K 29]

It's impossible for 2 players to join the same team like that. Once Player 1 enters, Player 2 will have to wait.

There is no guarantee that only low rank players will join.

Not effective. If it's towards the end of a battle, players rarely leave.

Don't try and get tactics into this. Tactics only apply in eSports, while in random battles it makes no difference.

 

Anyway, it's their right to choose what side they want to play on. 

Dear Mafioso,

 

Do you really think that CAN'T join two players at same time!!!??? 

Even less often  , it can heppand lag or bug in the game , where it shows e.g.8 players when you press TAB, but in reality for outside map it shows 6 players in total for the team>

 

Also if everything is fine with the game, player 1 join immediately and player 2 is clicking all the time .

 

 

[RustyNail 1,538]

It's impossible for 2 players to join the same team like that. Once Player 1 enters, Player 2 will have to wait.

There is no guarantee that only low rank players will join.

Not effective. If it's towards the end of a battle, players rarely leave.

Don't try and get tactics into this. Tactics only apply in eSports, while in random battles it makes no difference.

 

Anyway, it's their right to choose what side they want to play on. 

I am totaly and beyond doubt certain that third person software can do this.

I have witnessed it many times myself, in battles where FPS was same as ping, namely 50-60...

I have been told that it was lag, or that someone joined and quited very fast, but that is just crap. I have seen battles of 6 vs 6 (existing players) going 6 vs 3 in seconds and then going 8 vs 3 in some more seconds.. And where we were winning, all of a sudden we are 3 and start taking the beating of a life.

One can't join the team with more players, exactly the same way one can't fly their tank.

That is, unless they hack. ;)

[dfoofnik 341]

I like to call this a "clan trap", and it usually happens in long PRO battles. <snip> The fact that it's not against the rules doesn't make it acceptable.

 

This kind of players (clans) are more damaging to game experience than mults. [ agreed ]

 

The best way to fix this (and many other issues in the game) is by having a fully-automated matchmaker system instead of allowing players to create and join battles themselves.

Yes, I have actually WON in just two of those clan traps, because I refused to leave -- when there was soft playing, I would "hibernate" (only appear every 5 minutes) and wait for the clan to all eventually come to "my" side. This bastardization is actually a bit more perverse and devious than the usual "pad the other team and jump in to steal the battle fund" [which could not occur if we had a properly working "early ending" - all we have is the '3 and out' and even that doesn't always end a lopsided battle early].

 

I would prefer a less "arbitrary" method of controlling clans: e.g. prevent someone who has played more than 15 minutes for one team from joining the other team (that's easy). Long battles, 60 to 999 minutes, are a favorite target of clans, but untimed battles are particularly susceptible: let's just put an upper limit of 120 minutes on ALL battles, and that will be the end of them.

I credit them for making the flawed system "work" for them, but I can only imagine that in real life they are despicable miscreants that nobody respects or trusts. I would rather earn less crystals in an honest and fair way.

[dfoofnik 341]

It's impossible for 2 players to join the same team like that. Once Player 1 enters, Player 2 will have to wait.

Wrong. Would you like videos showing it happening? The timing is crucial, and involves a split-second join on the opposing team.

Red joins / phony Blue pops in and second Red joins / phony Blue disappears. I had to slow it down to see it happen!

[BSG-62 512]

A lot of the time, I join the losing team to help them.

[dfoofnik 341]

A lot of the time, I join the losing team to help them.

Yeah, that's fine. It's when a group comes in and "steals" a game by planting mults (Hi, cezar the shill !) and overpowering the team in the lead, usually for a large battle fund. But on Rio you see it ALL THE TIME.

To show you how ridiculous its become:

http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/dfoofnik/media/Ridiculous%20Raiders.png.html?

[dfoofnik 341]

So , if you join a team, u must be loyal to this team by the end of the game frame. And that's why i called it cheating!

 

Umm, I switch teams all the time.

 

For example: today I'm on Rio, and we run up a quick 1-5 score against some railguns. But they leave, and in come two substantial Vulcans. I can kill them, but it often takes more than 1 shot.

One of my team decides to hide and wait to see what they do, which is run the score to 3-5. Then, my OTHER teammate decides its a good idea to take the RED FLAG he's holding, and go back to fight the Vulcans, instead of patiently waiting for me to circle around, shoot the Vulcan, and return the Blue flag. Naturally he gets killed and it's 4-5.

 

At that point, do i tolerate this idiocy?

Do I wait for the two to leave and try to fight the Vulcans alone?

 

No. I switch teams to the Red team, and fight my ex-teammates and whoever else joins them. They have a better chance to kill me than the Vulcans, but I just know they are not up to winning. I get a lower battle score, but Red goes on to win 7-5 so i actually got higher rewards.

[0MN1V01D 599]

Play DMs?

[RustyNail 1,538]

Umm, I switch teams all the time.

 

For example: today I'm on Rio, and we run up a quick 1-5 score against some railguns. But they leave, and in come two substantial Vulcans. I can kill them, but it often takes more than 1 shot.

One of my team decides to hide and wait to see what they do, which is run the score to 3-5. Then, my OTHER teammate decides its a good idea to take the RED FLAG he's holding, and go back to fight the Vulcans, instead of patiently waiting for me to circle around, shoot the Vulcan, and return the Blue flag. Naturally he gets killed and it's 4-5.

 

At that point, do i tolerate this idiocy?

Do I wait for the two to leave and try to fight the Vulcans alone?

 

No. I switch teams to the Red team, and fight my ex-teammates and whoever else joins them. They have a better chance to kill me than the Vulcans, but I just know they are not up to winning. I get a lower battle score, but Red goes on to win 7-5 so i actually got higher rewards.

So, all for your own sake, huh? :mellow: Just wondering..

[dfoofnik 341]

So, all for your own sake, huh? :mellow: Just wondering..

Yeah, for my sake. If I'm holding back a team, I leave. If my team is playing like a bunch of numbskull ninnies, I leave.

If they're playing their guts out and still losing, I stay.

 

Here's something you may have thought about, even noticed if you are any kind of player:

I was on a winning team today in Stadium. No blowout, and it was a challenge.

I played as hard as I could every second, and we were still losing ground. Fortunately, players joined for each team and mine

got the better ones. I was lucky. But they also got a really bad player, so bad I can't believe he made Generalissimo. All he did

was get killed. The NEXT battle, he changed colors (stayed blue) and got in because I had temporarily left after the win.

And the guys we had BEATEN won easily. Mainly because he took up space.

Despite losing constantly, he stayed. If he had left, I would have gone in and probably made it a close game. Only at the end, when

somebody left and I jumped back in (futilely) did this player score a point.

Shilling? I couldn't say, but he helped the second-best team win a battle by being a complete loser.

 

Footnote: because I got back in at the end, we had a good team for the next upcoming battle. He left. So did that second-rate team.

[dfoofnik 341]

Modesty notwithstanding, I have led weaker teams to victory. I have followed stronger players to victory.

I have also played in games where my teammates just stopped playing and sat waiting to be killed.

But when I get paired with players who fight over a flag, or run around pointlessly and don't care if they lose,

it's time to find a new team. Even if it's the other side.