The Greatest Problem In Tanki

[Moraine 5,877]

We do not discuss individual bans publicly, banned players can always pm us to complain. 

[J.u.n.h.a.k 33]

Tanki has many problems, as we all know. In all sections of the forum, discussions are raging about this and that. Most talk about the drugs, others, about the "stupid devs." In the fervor of these arguments, though, we tend to forget other problems.

 

Yesterday, I was playing on my alt with some friends in real life, when my internet started going wacko. This is not an unusual occurrence, and can usually be remedied by a small break from the battle. I told my friends my predicament, and left the battle. Having nothing else to do, I decided to be a "mod" on the chat, acting like a know-it-all with my corporal alt. I sat around, doing nothing much besides telling a few people that "swearing is against the rules and will result in a ban," and providing links to the forum and the clan section. Then, it happened. There came a tanker with the most offensive nickname I have ever seen. The first thing he said was a censored word. He then started a whole spew of words that would've have gotten him banned for a month had a mod been there. I quickly took a screenshot, and reported him. Being the loud-mouth that I am, I couldn't just leave it at that, I had to go back and tell him that he had been reported and would be blocked for an extremely inappropriate nickname. This of course, started him on a new bout of profanity towards me this time. He wasn't giving up though, instead, he began saying the most dirty things you could imagine to the entire chat. By this time, there were many other tankers joining in the conversation, most of them cheering him on. I stayed in en8, as he said the meanest things you can think of, insulting me and my religion, all the while using profane language. I spent an hour and a half on en8 waiting for the ban that never came. He kept right on swearing and insulting. Disgusted at his rude behavior, I left to go find my friends again. Even then I couldn't run away from him, he joined my battle and continued insulting me. Finally, my Tanki time was up and I exited the tab with a heavy heart. In two hours, a guy with a horrible nickname, and dirty mouth had not been banned. How was that possible. Later, I logged into the forum and saw that he had been banned, almost four hours after being reported. How is it possible for a person like that to go four hours without being noticed by a mod? Chat violations should be addressed within at most an hour after their making. I mean no disrespect to the mods when I say this, because I know that it is humanely impossible to keep up with all the complaints in one day. If they know this though, why don't they attend to the need for more workers. The list of en moderators is relatively small compared to the thousands of tankers playing each day. Does anyone have any ideas about this, because there needs to be a change.

 

Sorry about the long rant, but I feel very strongly about this issue. Feedback would be appreciated.

 

 

KG

I agree that tanki need more workers i was one who apply to be a moderator but did not get accepted although i never got banned and played tanki for more than a year and is 21 of age and have alot of free time to moderate the chat for like 16 hours or more but who to say some time in the future i will apply again.

[KillerGnat 3,135]

Wall of text.

 

Very small wall of text.

Thanks Ostrica and Shar0n. You're the most helpful martian and, um, whatever Shar0n is (Idk exactly what) around. Personally, I think Tanki should reimplement the consultant job. I'm sure there was a good reason that they were removed, but it certainly made life harder for the mods. Right, now, the mods essentially have to do two jobs while on a server. Saying the usual "Please keep the language in a clean and respected manner for all chat users" isn't enough for most noobs. As soon as the mod shows his/her face, he/she will be flooded with useless questions (many of them asked by my own useless self  :P). There could be an insult war raging on EN7, but because a few people on EN9 want to ask some questions, the culprits of EN7 might never be punished. Problem? Most definitely! You can't expect mods to do their job when they're being asked questions. I've thought of a few solutions to the problem, and while they aren't completely perfect, they might work.

 

1. Reinstitute the consultant job. I'm too noob to know why they were taken out, so I can't say much about this. My idea for this is simple: have it be volunteer work with no required amount of time on the chat, and no pay. If you meet the standard (EG: rank Major or higher, must have been active on the forum for at least six months), you can be accepted. This way, mods who were wasting time answering questions will be liberated. Consultants would of course need an icon so they can look "important."

 

2. Have an acceptance quiz for wannabe chat mods. You mentioned that you are fearful of accepting certain members to the chat mod position lest they be overly ban-happy. Why not have a quiz giving them certain situations in which they would be and see how they react. If they pass, accept them as a candidate mod (you probably have already thought of this but I don't know).

 

3. Just say no. Mean, but effective. There isn't necessarily a rule making mods answer all the questions on the chat. Maybe if you see another responsible player also on the chat at the same time, you could say "Sorry, but due to my duties, I cannot answer anymore questions, my friend _______ would be happy to assist you though."

 

 

Oh, and Ostrica, because I finally am beginning to realize how hard your job is, I promise I will stop asking you the questions I've been asking  ;).

 

 

And Shar0n, I'm not in any way blaming the mods. You guys/martians do a great job as it is. We can't expect you to be everywhere at once. It's just that the system seems to have a few flaws.

[Moraine 5,877]

Thank you again :) As for your suggestions:

 

1. Not up to me. Don't think it would work, though, since they didn't have sufficient ban powers, and that's what is needed in the first place. 

2. As I said, every applicant is going through a rigorous security check - if they do not pass it, they cannot be candidates. No quiz is needed, since security check does include checking applicant's background and personality. 

3. And then they complain on the forum that you're rude and arrogant :) It really doesn't work that way, humans in pack are hard to control and even harder to placate.

 

I still think that the best way is to develop a system of pre-moderating, the way antiflood system does with flood right now, only the other one would deal with profanities. Some online games do have profanity filters and SwearReplacer (where swear words are automatically altered into something different, even funny). That way chat mods would be able to focus more on players, and much less on violations.

[SHOAIB.ZAFAR 402]

Hello KillerGnat!

I understand what situation you were in, but if you just ignore them, it would save you all trouble. Reason with them in an appropriate manner, if they don't listen (or even start insulting you), just ignore them (you can also report them). It is just a tip. Hope it will work for you.

[K.O.L.O.N.E.L 478]

Well, I think this is not the greatest problem in tanki. I would consider a big problem the lag on servers, maybe the vulcan glitch (no damage or vulcan). And a very big problem which are hackers. We have game violators which are able to come after /vote on our battle and see who is hacking and give them bans. This is happening on high accounts, even tho very rarely, but on small accounts they never come. Why?! Well first off, low account players don't even know how to spot a hacker, nor to vote someone. I was with my alt account @m3fx playing few days ago and what i saw was this. I was playing on poly cp and a player had a lot of kills and 0 deaths. I was curious to know how he did that. But i never saw his tank. After some moments playing i was capping point alone, and i realized my health was going low, and no one was shooting me. I looked around and no one was shooting me. I saw the nickname of player who killed me and voted him. I also asked other players to vote, but no one did it. Few moments later I saw this player. Actually i saw only his turret, which was inside a house. And he was killing players from the house near center of polygon... Ofc we lost, but that its not a problem. I was just wondering. Are there admins (game violator mods) for low rank. Or should i ask this. Is there a anti cheat in tanki that prevents players from going inside houses and killing everyone invisibly?!
Thats a big problem... Players with inappropriate nicknames will get ban sooner or later... But these problems above when will be fixed?

[KillerGnat 3,135]

Thank you again :) As for your suggestions:

 

1. Not up to me. Don't think it would work, though, since they didn't have sufficient ban powers, and that's what is needed in the first place. 

2. As I said, every applicant is going through a rigorous security check - if they do not pass it, they cannot be candidates. No quiz is needed, since security check does include checking applicant's background and personality. 

3. And then they complain on the forum that you're rude and arrogant :) It really doesn't work that way, humans in pack are hard to control and even harder to placate.

 

I still think that the best way is to develop a system of pre-moderating, the way antiflood system does with flood right now, only the other one would deal with profanities. Some online games do have profanity filters and SwearReplacer (where swear words are automatically altered into something different, even funny). That way chat mods would be able to focus more on players, and much less on violations.

The pre-mod idea is a good one, seeing as nothing else will work. I'm not sure how these things work, but it shouldn't be too hard to put anti-swear software in place, banning any violators. Anyways, thanks for your time. You've answered all of my questions, and have been a great help. Keep up the good work on the chats, and I hope you don't run into anymore noobs who ask you if the overuse of the Swampy paint will cause excessive Mosquito breeding in third world countries and other stupid questions like that  :P.

 

Hello KillerGnat!

 

I understand what situation you were in, but if you just ignore them, it would save you all trouble. Reason with them in an appropriate manner, if they don't listen (or even start insulting you), just ignore them (you can also report them). It is just a tip. Hope it will work for you.

I tried that, but I'm not the type of person who ignores people (too stubborn for that). I clicked the ignore button, but got annoyed at all the "this player is on your black list, you cannot receive any messages" icon. I did report him, and that was the main issue of this article: that the report went unattended for four hours. Thanks for the tips though  :).

[SHOAIB.ZAFAR 402]

I tried that, but I'm not the type of person who ignores people (too stubborn for that). I clicked the ignore button, but got annoyed at all the "this player is on your black list, you cannot receive any messages" icon. I did report him, and that was the main issue of this article: that the report went unattended for four hours. Thanks for the tips though  :).

I can understand, everyone has different personality and nature.

[KillerGnat 3,135]

Well, I think this is not the greatest problem in tanki. I would consider a big problem the lag on servers, maybe the vulcan glitch (no damage or vulcan). And a very big problem which are hackers. We have game violators which are able to come after /vote on our battle and see who is hacking and give them bans. This is happening on high accounts, even tho very rarely, but on small accounts they never come. Why?! Well first off, low account players don't even know how to spot a hacker, nor to vote someone. I was with my alt account @m3fx playing few days ago and what i saw was this. I was playing on poly cp and a player had a lot of kills and 0 deaths. I was curious to know how he did that. But i never saw his tank. After some moments playing i was capping point alone, and i realized my health was going low, and no one was shooting me. I looked around and no one was shooting me. I saw the nickname of player who killed me and voted him. I also asked other players to vote, but no one did it. Few moments later I saw this player. Actually i saw only his turret, which was inside a house. And he was killing players from the house near center of polygon... Ofc we lost, but that its not a problem. I was just wondering. Are there admins (game violator mods) for low rank. Or should i ask this. Is there a anti cheat in tanki that prevents players from going inside houses and killing everyone invisibly?!

Thats a big problem... Players with inappropriate nicknames will get ban sooner or later... But these problems above when will be fixed?

Ok, I admit I kinda made the title to get people to read it  :ph34r:. But also, I haven't seen any hackers, I always have lag, and I never use Vulcan. Because of that I can't really make a topic about those things listed. Sorry though if you were expecting something else.

 

hey,how you guys type large text fields in few seconds?  :o

Hacks

Skill man, skill. Gnats have very nimble fingers.

[ATHENA.s_realm_XT 69]

          Is not only the problem of those swearing in chat. There are transfer/exchange begging of accounts, buy crystals begging, etc. And not to forget there are a *lot* of game violations, e.g. mult, troll and many other forms of game sabotage. Unfortunately,, the game is moderated at all in real time via command /vote nickname, as most of players won't simply output the command and 20% of players need to vote, as far as I know, so that a moderator request to join a map is triggered, if I am correct.
          So, actually, if we are players looking to have fun and relax with the game while we use our common-sense and be fair players, we have to go through all this frustration on a daily and hourly basys, first with the main chat and second during the games. I play on an alt account and there is not one single day so far that I'm not pushed, offended, or begged for my password, or to buy crystals for the others. Being an active player in TO requires being a real warrior, as it seems. Not only that we are continuously bothered by these scams and internet fraud, but we also have to spend time to report them, to buy a video desktop software capture licence for our game reports, etc.

          I believe that there could be applied a set of solutions, to at least improve the situation, if wanted, such as:
          1. Make the chat available only starting at much higher rank (Brigadier, I would say);
          2. For those under Brigadier, allow them to type in chat only battle, forum & tankiwiki links;
          3. Make add friends requests and battle invitations available starting at the higher rank stated above;
          4. Switch a percentage of chat moderators to game moderators;
          5. Lower the percentage of 20% /vote nickname command and allow moderation of the games in real time;
          6. For the reports made via forum, provide full resolution applied, including ban type (chat, ip, etc) and its length;
          7. Reinforce applied measures (bans) against violation of game rules.
          Most of game violation and fraud attempt is made at lower accounts, so these kind of measures should be considered and applied asap. I want to relax, have fun and play tanki battles, I don't want to literally battle for the right of using a civilized environment.

          And *no*, ignoring them and the situation is not just right!
          I am sure TO has a great staff and with a bit of brainstorming the situation can be at least improved. It only takes a bit of willing to do it. We (players) are looking forward on improvement and this should be high priority to accomplish.
          Thanks for reading!
 

[drazeruzumaki 5,021]

 

          I believe that there could be applied a set of solutions, to at least improve the situation, if wanted, such as:

          1. Make the chat available only starting at much higher rank (Brigadier, I would say);

          2. For those under Brigadier, allow them to type in chat only battle, forum & tankiwiki links;

          3. Make add friends requests and battle invitations available starting at the higher rank stated above;

          4. Switch a percentage of chat moderators to game moderators;

          5. Lower the percentage of 20% /vote nickname command and allow moderation of the games in real time;

          6. For the reports made via forum, provide full resolution applied, including ban type (chat, ip, etc) and its length;

          7. Reinforce applied measures (bans) against violation of game rules.

     

 

u know u can say this because ur a high ranker....but u know everyone doesnt play tanki everyday to rank up to brigadier just to chat 

[ATHENA.s_realm_XT 69]

u know u can say this because ur a high ranker....but u know everyone doesnt play tanki everyday to rank up to brigadier just to chat 

          On the contrary; I currently don't play on this account, I play on my lower (3rd Lt. rank) and the situation exposed is for low ranks as I described in my preivous post.

          Since this is ongoing at lower ranks, I believe a percentage of these scams out there won't make it to a higher rank (e.g. brigadier) just to start troll/beg/exchange/sharing/etc, or if so, they will be a lot less than are now. Just as when you open a new account, you are not allowed to chat from the first rank (recruit).

[dilsharox 2,395]

Chat mods don't visit those servers

[Moraine 5,877]

Chat mods visit ALL servers. 

[canadarules 1,938]

oh please the biggest problem in tanki is me

[Moraine 5,877]

 

          I believe that there could be applied a set of solutions, to at least improve the situation, if wanted, such as:

          1. Make the chat available only starting at much higher rank (Brigadier, I would say);

          2. For those under Brigadier, allow them to type in chat only battle, forum & tankiwiki links;

          3. Make add friends requests and battle invitations available starting at the higher rank stated above;

          4. Switch a percentage of chat moderators to game moderators;

          5. Lower the percentage of 20% /vote nickname command and allow moderation of the games in real time;

          6. For the reports made via forum, provide full resolution applied, including ban type (chat, ip, etc) and its length;

          7. Reinforce applied measures (bans) against violation of game rules.

          Most of game violation and fraud attempt is made at lower accounts, so these kind of measures should be considered and applied asap. I want to relax, have fun and play tanki battles, I don't want to literally battle for the right of using a civilized environment.

 

1. We suggested that long time ago, but it was rejected by HQ, since they consider Tanki to be more than a game, and they feel that players should be able to chat / ask for help regarding game as soon as possible.

2. As stated above.

3. We also suggested to add automatic reject / block option, but was never implemented.

4. Impossible, since Game Violators have completely different training and job dynamics then chat mods.  

5. Games are moderated in real time, but it's impossible to work/check hundreds of battles in real time, on each and every server.

6. Privacy of all players including banned ones are of utter importance to us, so we will not disclose such details.  

7. Every suggestion regarding game violations should be forwarded to GV's admin, @Yele 

 

As I already said in previous post we are doing our best, but some things cannot be changed by simple alteration of moderation policy... 

[KillerGnat 3,135]

          Is not only the problem of those swearing in chat. There are transfer/exchange begging of accounts, buy crystals begging, etc. And not to forget there are a *lot* of game violations, e.g. mult, troll and many other forms of game sabotage. Unfortunately,, the game is moderated at all in real time via command /vote nickname, as most of players won't simply output the command and 20% of players need to vote, as far as I know, so that a moderator request to join a map is triggered, if I am correct.

          So, actually, if we are players looking to have fun and relax with the game while we use our common-sense and be fair players, we have to go through all this frustration on a daily and hourly basys, first with the main chat and second during the games. I play on an alt account and there is not one single day so far that I'm not pushed, offended, or begged for my password, or to buy crystals for the others. Being an active player in TO requires being a real warrior, as it seems. Not only that we are continuously bothered by these scams and internet fraud, but we also have to spend time to report them, to buy a video desktop software capture licence for our game reports, etc.

          I believe that there could be applied a set of solutions, to at least improve the situation, if wanted, such as:

          1. Make the chat available only starting at much higher rank (Brigadier, I would say);

          2. For those under Brigadier, allow them to type in chat only battle, forum & tankiwiki links;

          3. Make add friends requests and battle invitations available starting at the higher rank stated above;

          4. Switch a percentage of chat moderators to game moderators;

          5. Lower the percentage of 20% /vote nickname command and allow moderation of the games in real time;

          6. For the reports made via forum, provide full resolution applied, including ban type (chat, ip, etc) and its length;

          7. Reinforce applied measures (bans) against violation of game rules.

          Most of game violation and fraud attempt is made at lower accounts, so these kind of measures should be considered and applied asap. I want to relax, have fun and play tanki battles, I don't want to literally battle for the right of using a civilized environment.

          And *no*, ignoring them and the situation is not just right!

          I am sure TO has a great staff and with a bit of brainstorming the situation can be at least improved. It only takes a bit of willing to do it. We (players) are looking forward on improvement and this should be high priority to accomplish.

          Thanks for reading!

 

I partly agree with what you're saying, but also partly not. Making the chat available for brigadier and up has its disadvantages. With that, poor noobs like me who don't have enough time to rank up, won't be able to have the fun of chatting with other tankers (not everyone can rankup to Gissimo in about 80 days you know  :P). Also, the rule-keepers like me would lose the chat through no fault of our own. Essentially, there is no prefect solution for this, and I doubt we'll see many changes before Tanki X. Living with it right now though has been made a lot easier now that I know the admins are aware of this and are brainstorming ideas.

 

Until better ideas are implemented, I agree that the punishments should be harsher. Rule-breakers are pretty much rebelling against the game, and that should not be tolerated. Again, I don't know much about the mod policies, but I think docking xp points or crystals from the violators account as well as banning them would be good enough to keep most tankers from violating the rules more than once. If they continue, I'd even go so far as to bump them down a rank (obviously, that would need fine tuning, because it would be worse for a gissimo than for a gefreiter). Maybe these measures are already used for especially appalling violations, (eg hacking, trading accounts) and they in theory could be used for the so-called "lesser" violations (eg profanity, insults). Either way, I'd like your opinion on this Ostrica.

[The-Operator219 1,929]

Honestly, I don't buy the "we need quality moderators" argument.

We need moderators, even if they're not the best, they CAN help.

And I've seen on a few occasions a moderator breaking the rules.

But I never said anything because I knew it was pointless.

Reporting people is pointless. Moderating the chat is pointless, even if we get more moderators the damage is done.

[Eragon 13,876]

Report and leave server, what you did was only provoke him  ;)

[ATHENA.s_realm_XT 69]

           Tanks everyone for taking the time to read and for the replies. So, by my understanding, everything that could have been done via the forum has already been implemented through everyone's efforts. Maybe I should just escalate the issue and maybe I and others common-sense fair players will receive the needed help regarding this matter.

[DMAR-1 2]

KG, 

Mods not a cyborg or robots there are humans 

Calm down:)

[drazeruzumaki 5,021]

KG, 

Mods not a cyborg or robots there are humans 

Calm down:)

what if i told u semyon is a cyborg :(

[KillerGnat 3,135]

KG, 

Mods not a cyborg or robots there are humans 

Calm down:)

When was I saying that they were. I thought I made it pretty clear that I thought the mods are doing a great job, and that none of the blame can be put on them. Guess I was wrong though, so let me restate my thoughts:

 

 

The mods are doing great, and we cannot blame them. 

 

 

Happy now?  :)

[Moraine 5,877]

Honestly, I don't buy the "we need quality moderators" argument.

We need moderators, even if they're not the best, they CAN help.

And I've seen on a few occasions a moderator breaking the rules.

But I never said anything because I knew it was pointless.

Reporting people is pointless. Moderating the chat is pointless, even if we get more moderators the damage is done.

I don't see the reason for all this defeatism. Chats are moderated and most players are pretty satisfied with the way mods work. We cannot be held responsible for old players who find it amusing to make a bunch of alternative accounts in order to swear and cause commotion. Nor we can be held responsible for poor parenting. Ours is to make the best effort in order to provide a good chat experience for majority of players, as well as to introduce the rules and relevant game info to new players. Those who do not find the chat interesting can disable it altogether in Settings.  

 

I also don't see why reporting a staff member who is abusing his/her powers is pointless - if you have proof please forward it to their administrators, they will take care of the issue. If mod's guilt is proven, he/she won't stay unpunished. 

[KillerGnat 3,135]

I don't see the reason for all this defeatism. Chats are moderated and most players are pretty satisfied with the way mods work. We cannot be held responsible for old players who find it amusing to make a bunch of alternative accounts in order to swear and cause commotion. Nor we can be held responsible for poor parenting. Ours is to make the best effort in order to provide a good chat experience for majority of players, as well as to introduce the rules and relevant game info to new players. 

Here here. I'm almost 100% satisfied with your work, it just needs a few minor changes  :).

 

Just a question, is it possible to keep a person from making millions of alts by blocking his/her entire computer from Tanki?