Remove K/D or D/L (whichever you prefer)

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

You say campers don't bring flags, yet everyone who's played XP/BP has camped. Don't bother telling me otherwise cause railgun takes ages to reload and players aren't about to run to their deaths.

My point is, campers do bring your flags back. Who do you think retrieves the flag after you die? Who covers your leave once you take enemy flag? Campers.

there is no need for someone who takes the flag after I died, because if I am a camper then there is no flag that I've lost somewhere.

 

I do not like to go in detail with you on XP/BP tactics. Sure you do not rush forward.. but you should not do this with an turret. You wait for the right moment, when you are clever, you create your moment.. and in the meanwhile you try to deal damage. Looks like camping. But the moments thereafter destroy your K/D ratio again.. so.. again.. no. This is no indicator of a good teamplayer.

[dan146_tanker 770]

there is no need for someone who takes the flag after I died, because if I am a camper then there is no flag that I've lost somewhere.

 

I do not like to go in detail with you on XP/BP tactics. Sure you do not rush forward.. but you should not do this with an turret. You wait for the right moment, when you are clever, you create your moment.. and in the meanwhile you try to deal damage. Looks like camping. But the moments thereafter destroy your K/D ratio again.. so.. again.. no. This is no indicator of a good teamplayer.

What?! ''Sure you do not rush forward''? Mate, I've felt like rage quitted a million times cause after the first capture playing felt like a chore. It was nothing more than your opponent moving forward and backward near the corners like a dancing monkey.

And by ''waiting for the right'' means camping. If you have a low K.D. and you ''wait'' (camp!) for the ''right'' (your opponent gets bored) moment you show no skill.

K.D. can show skill, but if your a rank under warrant officer or buy, or are a drugger K.D. doesn't mean anything.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

camping = sitting somewhere and waiting for an enemy to show up

camper = someone that does camping 100% of his time

rusher = someone that attacks all the time, even attacking alone vs a fort, or taking the "bad route" and finding himself welcomed by 3 enemies, instead of taking an overview in advance and think of what to do

balanced player = someone that camps if necessary and attacks if apropriate.

 

campers have a better K/D then balanced players. Therefore, if you pick players by K/D you end up with campers

But what you need are balanced players, that can take over the roles whatever needed in accordance to the batlte field situation and the location they spawn at.

 

but well, as I said - :)

[MAD.GEN1US 38]

It doesn't need to be removed, just players need to realise that having a good K/D isn't everything

 Try getting that into Christianss‘ head. I will send you $100 via Paypal if you succeed.

[r_GaIaxy2 8,611]

 Try getting that into Christianss‘ head. I will send you $100 via Paypal if you succeed.

Ain't nothing gonna get into Christians head....

[Lightning78 285]

Those who've been playing for a bit longer know there used to be an actual ranking based on a formula including (1) amount of experience earned, (2) crystals earned (not counting crystals bought), and finally (3) K/D ratio.

 

I mean these numbers on the top right (the first one giving the actual ranking, the second one showing the coefficient coming out of the formula):

 

 

K/D had a big impact on this rating, and of course this formula wasn't taking into account playing style. However it was removed in Sept 2014 (and then there was nothing for a while, until today's rating stats came out). So I think the concerns raised have already been addressed by this - there is no ranking/rating using the K/D (only in player's heads)..

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Those who've been playing for a bit longer know there used to be an actual ranking based on a formula...

However it was removed in Sept 2014.

It's a good thing ratings was removed. Some players who were aware of it and how it worked played selectively to get the best rating. I still didn't fully understand how it worked with formulas being bandied around like ,

"Rating = SQRT(experience_points*(kills/deaths))+(earned_crystals)/200",

which did not check out when values were substituted.

 

This was a ss of mine Sept 2014.  Still no idea what the formula was or what the numbers actually meant but I saw it as a good thing if the left hand number went down.

 

But thankfully for me, soon after this rating was removed, I started taking more risks and learned the error of my ways because ratings were a distraction and negatively effected how a player played. Even today, players still focus too much on stats and K/D is a prime example. Don't get me wrong, nobody likes to be destroyed but some players STILL take it to the extreme to the point those players could become a hindrance and their teammates would prefer to have an attacking noob on their side instead - especially while trailing.

 

K/D had a big impact on this rating, and of course this formula wasn't taking into account playing style. However it was removed in Sept 2014 (and then there was nothing for a while, until today's rating stats came out). So I think the concerns raised have already been addressed by this - there is no ranking/rating using the K/D (only in player's heads)..

I don't think so. Some players still tease and brag about their numbers and use them so they can feel superior over others.  If I could be bothered to search in the forum for such examples, I'm sure I'd find some!

 

hny

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Some even brag on YouTube even though they're perfectly aware they let their teammates do the hard work and use a lot of their personal supplies since the former refuses to use his own :lol:

[Lightning78 285]

I still didn't fully understand how it worked with formulas being bandied around like ,

"Rating = SQRT(experience_points*(kills/deaths))+(earned_crystals)/200",

which did not check out when values were substituted.

That was indeed the formula and it checked out just fine. The only thing to consider is that ever since crystals/prices were multiplied by 10 back in 2013, earned crystals had to be divided by 2000 rather than 200.

 

Don't get me wrong, nobody likes to be destroyed but some players STILL take it to the extreme to the point those players could become a hindrance and their teammates would prefer to have an attacking noob on their side instead - especially while trailing.

 

Some players still tease and brag about their numbers and use them so they can feel superior over others.  If I could be bothered to search in the forum for such examples, I'm sure I'd find some!

Sure there's bad players in defense only camping and not actively helping the team. Still, bad players in attack can be just as much a hindrance to the team. Such players hurt a team, no matter if they camp or attack mindlessly with no coordination.

 

Unfortunately some players here mix up those "bad campers" with "good defenders", even going as far as claiming that attack is everything and defense doesn't count. Sadly, they also use false accusations and lies to single out other players -who don't have an "all-out-attack" playing style to their liking- and try to make them look bad. If I could be bothered to search in the forum for such examples, I'm sure I'd find some.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

That was indeed the formula and it checked out just fine.

Maybe you could provide 2 or 3 examples and show the Rating drop then because to me it doesn't work and I've tried to understand it. 

 

 

Sure there's bad players in defense only camping and not actively helping the team. Still, bad players in attack can be just as much a hindrance to the team. Such players hurt a team, no matter if they camp or attack mindlessly with no coordination.

But at least they're attacking when trailing instead of a camper refusing to get off his perch for fear of losing 0.001 on his K/D ratio!

 

 

Sadly, they also use these false accusations and lies to single out other players and try to make them look bad. If I could be bothered to search in the forum for such examples, I'm sure I'd find some.

Why the hostility?

 

All the best!

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Just to clarify after your edit
 

It does not add anything to gameplay other than players teasing you because you have a low one.

 

However it was removed in Sept 2014... So I think the concerns raised have already been addressed by this

I was simply making the point that the concerns raised have not been addressed by the removal of ratings. No need to get angry.

[Lightning78 285]

Maybe you could provide 2 or 3 examples and show the Rating drop then because to me it doesn't work and I've tried to understand it.

Not sure I understand what you mean by "[..] show the Rating drop [..]". Back in the days, I've used the formula "backwards" starting from the rating coefficient to calculate the K/D (also possible since I kept track of the crystals earned in battle), and it always worked fine. By "rating coefficient" I mean the rightmost number with the arrow in front, which comes out of the formula. There was no way to calculate the ranking (number on the left with # in front), as that depends on other player's performance.

 

These are the formulas:

 

Taking your screen from 2014:

- As I don't know how many crystals you've earned, I'm assuming you had roughly the same ratio as today, i.e. 1.24. So back then you would have earned 1.24 x 1'677'218 = 2079750 crystals.

- Entering this, the EP and the rating coefficient in the second formula, the K/D is: (3764 - 2079750/2000)^2 / 1'677'218 = 4.42 => that looks sensible based on what you said..

 

Doing the same for my 2014 screen, the K/D is: (3055 - 2189769/2000)^2 / 1'368'606 = 2.81. Which also makes sense, since back then I didn't have top equipment, whereas now I got the best one possible (as a non-buyer, it took me two years to get to full M4).

 

But at least they're attacking when trailing instead of a camper refusing to get off his perch for fear of losing 0.001 on his K/D ratio!

Well, maybe the useless attacking rather than camping leads to the team falling behind even more, before a change of fortune occurs (e.g. new players joining). Both behaviours are bad, but there's simply no way to make absolute statements on what is worse for the team, it all depends on the circumstances..

 

Why the hostility?

I think you know pretty well what is behind this and what I meant.

[SUP3R_ST4R 1,206]

Useless? You shouldn't decide that I guess.

[Crip 4,735]

Dude, if you have a K.D. that's gold how do you have it? Let me guess that brigadier also has M3 equipment and is a buyer.

The reason everybody rejects buyers and say that they have no skill is because they have better equipment and STILL yes STILL need to boost their power to get a few kills. So tell me we are in a 1v1 I have M2 while you have M0. You have 0 supplies and I have 1k of each. You can't get the pickups cause I go drug-lord mode and kill you and take all the boxes off the map.

Can you explain why it would be unfair for you? Also, imagine that I do that to all the players in a 10v10. So is it really biased?

Your M2s would 1 or 2 shot my M0s anyway.

 

<_<

 

Edit: You don't really see M2s vs M0s that often anyway, unless the M0 is a mult, in which case he deserves every supply that comes his way.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Not sure I understand what you mean by "[..] show the Rating drop [..]".

Ah, so the rating isn't the number next to the word rating. I genuinely didn't know that which is why I asked...

 

Still no idea what the formula was or what the numbers actually meant but I saw it as a good thing if the left hand number went down.

Which makes sense because it's obvious looking at the formula the rating should go up for the more crystals you earn and I wondered how my rating was dropping. I always thought for some reason that less is more when it came to this. Now I know - thanks.

 

So when it says, "Rating: 3873      ^3764"

3873 isn't the rating. That's all I needed to know really.

 

 

Well, maybe the useless attacking rather than camping leads to the team falling behind even more, before a change of fortune occurs (e.g. new players joining). Both behaviours are bad, but there's simply no way to make absolute statements on what is worse for the team, it all depends on the circumstances.

But you can't play a battle in the hope that players leave and new one's join and turn it around. You have to play it as you see it. If your side is losing, what is the point in defending? You might be able to minimise the defeat but it's still a defeat in the end. But it doesn't matter if these campers are useless attacking. The more you flood the winning side's stubborn defence, the more they can't cope with everyone that is there and the chances of taking the flag increases.  But if campers stay put, what chance do one or two players have at breaking down a side all found at their base defending?

 

If K/D wasn't a stat, these campers might take more risks and that's the argument.

 

Cheers for the clarification.

[Lightning78 285]

Ah, so the rating isn't the number next to the word rating. I genuinely didn't know that which is why I asked...

Yep, now I understand the confusion, I've overlooked your other remark on the "left number going down"..

 

But you can't play a battle in the hope that players leave and new one's join and turn it around. You have to play it as you see it. If your side is losing, what is the point in defending? You might be able to minimise the defeat but it's still a defeat in the end. But it doesn't matter if these campers are useless attacking. The more you flood the winning side's stubborn defence, the more they can't cope with everyone that is there and the chances of taking the flag increases.  But if campers stay put, what chance do one or two players have at breaking down a side all found at their base defending?

I think battles in Tanki are often decided by who leaves and who joins (the extreme example being a takeover team joining a battle which is almost over), so it's not unreasonable to have that hope. I still think it all depends on the circumstances..

 

If K/D wasn't a stat, these campers might take more risks and that's the argument.

Actually I doubt that. If that were true, a change of styles would have been observed following removal of the "old" rating in Sept 2014 - don't think that happened.

 

Regarding what was said earlier in the topic about players mocking others because of their K/D: just ignore it, don't get excited about what anybody's telling you anonymously in an MMOG. Most players are kids, and you'll find all kinds of weird stuff happening. For instance, sometimes players mock me for only owning two hulls, or they call me out for being a noob buyer and heavy supply user :P. So what? I can only laugh about that..

[Lightning78 285]

That's right, better all camp behind rocks than trying to capture a flag. This way enemies will dominate more easily the battlefield :rolleyes:

Twisting my words and taking them out of context - well done.

[generalpotato_PRO 1,076]

Well... nice to see this topic has been revived lol :lol:

 

Why doesn't this have a Under review or declined tag? 

Because it was made before they started adding tags so we're just waiting for Mafioso to add one.

 

But anyways, quite a few people have said that they care about D/L, but it is, in my opinion, not useful whatsoever. And on top of that you have these Hy6c running around spewing nonsense about "crying to have it removed because you have a low one". Yeah, piss off. I don't think 0.93 is low at all, considering the fact that I use Wasp more than twice the time I use Viking AND the fact that my most used supply hasn't even reached 1000 uses yet. And I am a Generalissimo so I don't want to hear it from Hy6 Warrant Officers.

 

My main concern with D/L is users that main a heavy hull or Shaft that don't help at all. Sure, if they are providing cover while you're racing to your base with the flag, I have absolutely no problem with that. Go for it. But if you're off in the corner picking off random people with no health left or your fat hull is sat on the flag with double armor activated, blasting away repair kits all the while getting healed by Isidas, when the entire enemy team is stuck at their base because everyone is going on offense and keeping them there, you don't have the right to brag about a good D/L because you have done absolutely nothing that helped the team. Don't get me wrong, go ahead and defend if you will. But when the time comes to press an offensive, you need to join. You would be better off with all that HP bringing the flag back to base.

[III_Dope_III 319]

I know my KD is dropping like everyday before it was like 2.8 or something now look its literally like under 2