[Request] Exact numbers + in-depth analysis of Freeze & Firebird

[Opex-Rah 5,375]

What do I do wrong here?

Actual cooling rate is 0.050, not 0.032. Seems like Wiki-editors had no idea that I changed that with last balance patch. Oh well :D

 

So when heat = 0, damage = 0, and when heat = 1, damage = 30/s - Correct?

Almost. At heat = 0 damage = 1, but it is forced to 0. It is important if you draw a graph. Any heat above 0 will deal 1+ damage. Damage between 0 and 1 is impossible.

 

Cooling rate is 0.032/s or is it 0.032/s incremental? I mean... is it 0.032 for first sec and then 0.064 for second sec, 0.096 for third sec...

Look above :D It is 0.05/s always and just to make things a little more confusing it does applies even when Firebird is heating up a tank. As I said, Temperature is whole another entity.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Actual cooling rate is 0.050, not 0.032. Seems like Wiki-editors had no idea that I changed that with last balance patch. Oh well :D

Ahh... that makes more sense now :)

 

Follow up questions:

1)

I assume, the heating-up and the burning-damage are internally calculated at/for each tick.

According to my last info (some vLog), the tick length today is 0,25sec (4 times in a second), is that correct?

So the heatup per tick would be 0,1/0,25sec

and the max. burning damage per tick would also be like 30*0,25 = 7,5hp/0,25sec, have I got this right?

 

2)

It seems to me, that the temperature increasing effect of a firebird is independent of the distance to the target - as long as you are in it's range. Or in other words: you may be at the outmost end of the firebirds range, but the temperture increase and burning damage will kick in at full force.

Is observation correct as well?

Edited January 27, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

Almost. At heat = 0 damage = 1, but it is forced to 0. It is important if you draw a graph. Any heat above 0 will deal 1+ damage. Damage between 0 and 1 is impossible.

 

Look above :D It is 0.05/s always and just to make things a little more confusing it does applies even when Firebird is heating up a tank. As I said, Temperature is whole another entity.

1. Oh my, Oh my, that's actually great.

2. Aha, so that kind of changes the graph from a straight line, mhmm. This is going to be fun.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

2. Aha, so that kind of changes the graph from a straight line, mhmm. This is going to be fun.

sounds like

 

BurnDamage = 29*Temp + 1

If (Temp == 0) then BurnDamage := 0

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

sounds like

 

BurnDamage = 29*Temp + 1

If (Temp == 0) then BurnDamage := 0

I meant the cooling and heating being applied at the same time. 0.05/s and 0.4/s after the first second

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

I meant the cooling and heating being applied at the same time. 0.05/s and 0.4/s after the first second

Maybe I am wrong, but I think this is not much of an issue.

It is like an addition of different functions.

But I think it is easier as an interative implementation in a spreadsheet tool, where one cell bases on the cell before

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

Maybe I am wrong, but I think this is not much of an issue.

It is like an addition of different functions.

But I think it is easier as an interative implementation in a spreadsheet tool, where one cell bases on the cell before

Exactly how I'm doing this, also gets me graphs :P

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

so that's waht I have up to now:

Firebird M4, fireing from time=0 until time=5 (full energy blasted out)

 

The graph shows the accumulated damage at a given time index.

So if you look at time = 5,0 the firebird has dealt a normal damage of 360hp, and on top of that a burning damage of roughly 113hp.

 

The normal damage increases while the firebird is active (time 0,0 .. 5,0) and reaches a accumulated value of 360hp.

 

The burning damage stars with zero and reaches it's max after 2,5seconds (deals 30hp damage per second *1 ).

At second 5,0 the firebird stops heating, so the burning damage declines from 30hp/sec down to zero after time index 25. The total accumulated burning damage is 419,5 hp.

 

 

 

So in total you end up with:

total normal damage per 5 seconds burst: 360hp

total burning damage (until temperature drops to zero) again: 419,5

overall total damage: 779,5hp

 

Freeze M4 can deal total of "only" 720hp and has to stay next to it's target for 9 seconds... while the firebird can move out after 5 seconds. Please note that a firebird has regained 20% of its energy after second 6,0 and can sent in a further blast of 70hp+burning, killing the enemy even faster and keeping the temperature up..)

 

 

 

 

*1: temperature maxima detail:

 

 

 

in my model the temperature for each tick is

1. increased by the firebird

2. then cooled down

3. then limited at max_temp = 1

 

It would look different, if:

1. increased by the firebird

2. then limited at max_temp = 1

3. then cooled down

 

 

Edited January 27, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

Stuff above

Aha, I ended up wtih 776.95 hitpoints of total damage. mhmm

 

EDIT:

 

1. isn't 72x5 = 360 base damage

2. in my case, total burn damage is 416.95

Edited January 27, 2016 by r_AdvocatusDiaboli0

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

1. You are right, my base damage was wrong. I typed "70p/sec" in my spreadsheet, instead of 72. Reading is still an art for me :P

  I've changed text and pictures accordingly.

2. what did you apply first: cooling -or- maximum temp cap?

 

 

 

I was nosy if a firebird or a freeze kills faster :P

 

Scenario 1:

If a freeze blows out it's whole damage within 9sec (9sec x 80HP = 720hp) a firebird can compete reaches only 660hp.

But of course firebirds afterburn comes to catch up.. but it takes about 8 seconds to catch up..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

---

 

 

Scenario 2:

Can firebird catch up faster by giving a second burst?

Yes, but Freeze still kills faster:

 

 

• Firebird blows for 5 seconds
• waits 2,25sec to reload ~20% of it's energy (time 5,00..7,25)
• give a second burst for 1second (time 7,25..8,25)
• waits 2,25sec to reload ~20% of it's energy (time 8,25..10,50)
• ~~~ catches up with Freeze's damage 2,25 seconds later ~~~
  (at this time fire could give another burst.. but freeze could too.. so yeah..)
  
  (All reload times rounded to 0,25, as this is the tick time)

Updated picture, 2016-01-29

 

 

 

 

---

 

 

Scenario 3:

What happens if both discharge completely, and the continue with some kind of continous fire?

(as you drug yourself alive as good as you can)

-> Fire delivers more damage now

 

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

Oh boy Oh boy, you're definitely getting credit for everything in this thread.
 
P.S. While we're at it, I wonder if can give me permission to use the publicly available information over here for my website :P

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Oh boy Oh boy, you're definitely getting credit for everything in this thread.

I see it more like a cooperation, as you have been the one starting this here.. asking for details and digging in..

and also you found the mistakes in my inital versions, that would have been unspotted elsewise :)

 

ps: there was some time when I did Excel for a living.. :p

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

I see it more like a cooperation, as you have been the one starting this here.. asking for details and digging in..

and also you found the mistakes in my inital versions, that would have been unspotted elsewise :)

 

ps: there was some time when I did Excel for a living.. :P

Takes two to clap :P I'm only looking for a DPS chart that every non-math-savvy person can understand.

[Maf 32,300]

Yeah, I know. Scheduled to be fixed... sometime...  :ph34r:

I thought you (or someone) said that if a player didn't buy the M1 and M2 item at some point, then they can't ever have that achievement. Is that going to change now?

 

---

 

This is an interesting topic. I might even try and do some maths of my own if I feel like it...

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

This is an interesting topic. I might even try and do some maths of my own if I feel like it...

pls all my topics are interesting

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

I'm only looking for a DPS chart that every non-math-savvy person can understand.

 

 

A DPS graph was the first one that I made.. but it was based on ticks and so rather useless to the average player.

I modified it to display only sub-sums for each second:

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

I averaged it out over 5 second intervals, less data = easier to understand = easier to convince people that Firebird is broken

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

I see.

I once did DPS calcs for several weapons and I averaged it out over each weapons "duty cycle".. meaning "time it can shot/fire/... + time to reload".

Actually kind of hard, as a firebird deals damage after his duty cycle time is over and he can start to toast again with a full energy bar..

hmm..

[Opex-Rah 5,375]

While we're at it, I wonder if can give me permission to use the publicly available information over here for my website :P

That is what it meant for.

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

That is what it meant for.

oh boy, thanks a ton!

 

This thread may be closed as the moderators deem fit, I think pretty much everything has been answered and discussed.

[Pal_the_week 9]

Awesome stuff, guys. Now I'm gonna stick with my beloved fire for ever! :P

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

Awesome stuff, guys. Now I'm gonna stick with my beloved fire for ever! :P

Ahh, glad to be of service mate :P

 

P.S. This needs to be updated for Vulcan

Edited January 28, 2016 by r_AdvocatusDiaboli0

[Zenyth 6,494]

Mind boggling graphs TBH

You guys work so hard! I like it how you coupled Fire's damage and afterburn with Freeze. :D

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

That is what it meant for.

Well... Give a man a cat, some coffee and a day with nothing else to do... oh and permission to use some data.

 

Firebird vs Freeze should be up this weekend.

Edited January 29, 2016 by r_AdvocatusDiaboli0

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Hazel-Rha, could you please check the table below - I am not sure aout the effect of drugs and Paints on the heating rate..

Thanks a lot !!! :)

 

 

Which entries on the left, influence the entries on the right - and how?
(a minus "-" means, the parameter is not affected)

                        | normal damage | temp     | heating rate | burning damage | 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
attackers Double Power  |     *2        |     -    |     ??       |        -       |
defenders Double Armor  |     *0,5      |     -    |     ??       |      *0,5      |
defenders Health Box    |  neutralized  | set to 0 |     -        | set 0 via temp |
defenders Paint         |   reduced     |     -    | ??reduced??  |    reduced     |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

To all others:

I had the reload time of Fire wrong, so I updated the pictures and text in >this post.

 

Nice webpage you have there, Advocatus ;)

Edited January 29, 2016 by BlackWasp777