Valid Lower healing rate when Isida heals another Isida

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Group of Isidas -> healing each other -> overpowered team

I played a 7vs7 battle together with Generalissimos
It was a pretty good battle, but then the enemy team suddenly changed equipment
-> and we faced 4 Isidas and 3 "normal" tanks


From that moment on, we lost.. and had no chance to do anything against it.
That Isidas moved in a group, and we simply did not manage to kill them fast enough.
While we tried to takkle the Isidas, the other tanks took our flag or took us appart - or both -.-

Thinking about this, I came up with the Idea, that an Isisda's healing should be lowered only if it heals another Isisda.
So it's damage and healing stays the same, but when healing another Isida, this healing is nerved with -30..-40%


This would also lower the 2xVulcan+2xIsida balance problem a little, as it becomes more feasible to take Isida groups out.

 

update by BlackWasp777, 2018-06-25:

When I started this post, an Isida could still self-heal itself, had a nice balance of healing/damage/range compared to fire&freeze. In the 2 years since I started this thread, Isida was nerved several times. If this idea should be implemented, I hope they give some other feature back to the Isidas, like better vertical (up/down) aiming angles, selfheal that is not doubled by DP supplies or the ability to un-burn and un-freeze teammates.

 

update:

another player, same idea: http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=311038&p=6122152

and another one: http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=311038&p=6225603

[sensei_tanker 3,098]

Isida Train Nerf Idea

 

Ever played Polygon CP? *yes, im sure you have*

 

Well, it's not hard to spot 3 isidas camping in the hole near the center with a titan twins on top so they will practically be indestructible because they just heal each other.

 

Well, they recently nerfed Isida so that freezing and burning can't be healed by Isida anymore.

 

But, I think that it is a very minor nerf because Isida still can heal teammates so I don't see how the ability to heal burns/freezing changes anything as long as they can keep their teammate alive longer... and it does not really address Isida Trains at all.

 

My proposed solution of the Isida Train is that:
Isidas can no longer heal other isidas. They will only help replenish the other isida's ammo.

 

It's quite a nerf for Isidas because Isida Trains have been significantly weakened, however, I feel like replenishing the other Isida's ammo can lead to a different gameplay expreience with Isida since that Isida's only weakness is how quick it loses all of its energy. I believe that this buff/nerf will help provide for a better gameplay experience and is a proper nerf for the Isida Train.

Edited June 26, 2018 by sensei_tanker

[Maf 32,300]

That seems a bit unfair. Yeah, i agree that Isida needs a nerf, but this would just make it really inconvenient for Isidas. I'd much rather have a nerf on healing speed instead, so when healing another Isida, the healing would be slower but the energy expenditure rate would also be reduced. 

 

Or a complete rework of Isida's healing function - make it so that it has two bars, one for energy and one for matter. It would respawn with full energy and matter, but to heal it would need to spend some matter and the only way to get the matter back and continue healing would be to attack an enemy and regain some matter at the expense of energy. Seems like an update that would make Isida much more balanced and dependent on skill (i.e. not a "noob" gun).

[ELIZABETH1122 337]

That seems a bit unfair. Yeah, i agree that Isida needs a nerf, but this would just make it really inconvenient for Isidas. I'd much rather have a nerf on healing speed instead, so when healing another Isida, the healing would be slower but the energy expenditure rate would also be reduced. 

 

Or a complete rework of Isida's healing function - make it so that it has two bars, one for energy and one for matter. It would respawn with full energy and matter, but to heal it would need to spend some matter and the only way to get the matter back and continue healing would be to attack an enemy and regain some matter at the expense of energy. Seems like an update that would make Isida much more balanced and dependent on skill (i.e. not a "noob" gun).

Isida is more or less balanced a bit on the week side maybe.  I see from you your profile that you hardly ever use it.  If it is so wonderful why not use it?

[Jwimmer 2,835]

Isida is more or less balanced a bit on the week side maybe.  I see from you your profile that you hardly ever use it.  If it is so wonderful why not use it?

I beg to differ. Isida is by far the most OP gun in the game right now (even better than fire). Just 1 isida viking on drugs can completely turn a game on island around, and also in poly cp they are hard to kill. They deal decently high damage, and when paired with self-healing, it is even stronger. Firebird is often considered the strongest close range weapon, but put up a fire against an isida (with same hull), and the isida will win every time. If an isida comes through a base in a map like Noise, they can put on a DA, then heal themself off of defenders, then when  they are about to die, hit 1, and they are home free. I like Mafioso's idea, would keep the purpose of isidas, but they would not be as op

Edited March 14, 2016 by Jwimmer

[Spit_Fyre 334]

Yes, isidas definitely need a rebalance. Because - while one-on-one the isida may look balanced, it's incredibly hard to win against a group of them.

 

I've always wondered about this - when every weapon has the damage decreasing with range factor (except railgun coz it's a laser?), the isida doesn't.

[Spit_Fyre 334]

That seems a bit unfair. Yeah, i agree that Isida needs a nerf, but this would just make it really inconvenient for Isidas. I'd much rather have a nerf on healing speed instead, so when healing another Isida, the healing would be slower but the energy expenditure rate would also be reduced. 

 

Or a complete rework of Isida's healing function - make it so that it has two bars, one for energy and one for matter. It would respawn with full energy and matter, but to heal it would need to spend some matter and the only way to get the matter back and continue healing would be to attack an enemy and regain some matter at the expense of energy. Seems like an update that would make Isida much more balanced and dependent on skill (i.e. not a "noob" gun).

I agree with the first part. To be fair, the healing speed and energy rate decrease would need to apply to any other tank and not just isidas.

 

The complete rework option may make it extra hard to use the isida. I think that eventually it could adversely affect the popularity of the gun.

[robeok 0]

Isidia is OP up to Generalissimo,same like Tunder because are the first M3 unlocked and are more micro updated.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Most (not all) players that say, that Isida is overpowered, mean actually "it is overpowered on drugs - especially DoubleDamage".

 

I am against nerving a turret that is pretty well balanced in "non drug situtaions", just because it's double damage allows it to heal itself without taking damage at close range. Because this means the problem are the drugs (*1), not the turret over all.

 

 

Back to topic:

A pack of Isidas, is extremely hard to stop - even if they are unot drugged.

 

I do not consider it unfair, to let them use the usual amount of energy, while they heal an other Isida with less efficiency then today. Why? Becuase it makes them think to use their energy wise, while it is simple and it would easily reduce the overpowerness of Isida Packs.

 

The idea with the matter bar (I read it once a long time ago, somewhere else) is nice too, but it sounds a littlecomplicated.

Complitated in two ways:

1) complicated to be implemented by the game

2) very, very complicated to starters of Tanki, that even do not notice that an Isida can heal other tanks..

 

 

(*1) (therefor we founded the go-pro-club, but this is a different story)

Edited March 14, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[need.higher.rank 3,491]

Tanki created Isida Just for this it can easily  help a team win 

[ELIZABETH1122 337]

Having been through a number of profiles, the complainant are from people who do not use isida.  It was the same with Shaft when that was neutered.   Isida has been more or less the same since launch with very little complaints about it.  The thing is Isida M3 is available from Brigadier level and is bound to me maxed long before most others.  If talking about surviverbility  then the hull, paint and micro updates need to be considered.  It is impossible to know from profiles what level of mu each component posses.  It would be easy to level similar accusations about any turret or combination but without knowing all the facts it would be just as pointless.  

 

One can arm up with paints against one, two, or three turrets and one can survive OK and carry on for a little while particularly if maxed up. Then comes along someone with an M2 what ever, that is well maxed, with perhaps double power and its a one shot and your dead.  Similarly, taking some one out your what ever M3 turret, which seams invincible but someone has the most appropriate paint maxed hull and they survive and go on to take you out.  It is how it goes.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

If you looked up my profile - well, this is an Alt.

I have accumulated around 2Mio XP now, and I consider an Isida without drugs as pretty balanced nowadays.

When I see them paired up with a random tank, the Isida does well - without beeing overpowered (if without drugs).

 

I also have an Isida M3,5 on my main.

And I plan to purchase the Medic kit on this account (crystals already saved up, just waiting to rank).

 

So:

- I use it

- I will buy it again

- and still I think this nerv would be very usefull.

- and if its nerverd, I am still going to buy it - it's an aweseome turret that offers a unique gameplay :)

 

 

But in packs of 3 to 4 Isidas they are unstoppable.

My proposal works only for this part of the game.. and will not influence any other interaction an isida has on the battlefield.

[Spit_Fyre 334]

Having been through a number of profiles, the complainant are from people who do not use isida.  It was the same with Shaft when that was neutered.   Isida has been more or less the same since launch with very little complaints about it.  The thing is Isida M3 is available from Brigadier level and is bound to me maxed long before most others.  If talking about surviverbility  then the hull, paint and micro updates need to be considered.  It is impossible to know from profiles what level of mu each component posses.  It would be easy to level similar accusations about any turret or combination but without knowing all the facts it would be just as pointless.  

 

One can arm up with paints against one, two, or three turrets and one can survive OK and carry on for a little while particularly if maxed up. Then comes along someone with an M2 what ever, that is well maxed, with perhaps double power and its a one shot and your dead.  Similarly, taking some one out your what ever M3 turret, which seams invincible but someone has the most appropriate paint maxed hull and they survive and go on to take you out.  It is how it goes.

I agree with the last paragraph, the grass does always seem greener on the other side.

 

I beg to differ on the strategy of accessing the worth of every complaint going by player profile. You'd be surprised at the numbers of alts in tanki.

[TheRollingSlab 803]

Isida is so OP because it has so much charge in a single reload, AND it is very quick to reload too. You could nerf the loading speed and that would defenitly fix a lot of issues, I think that having the whole Isida healing Isida=less heal would be very unfair to Isidas. I personally do not use them myself, butI think that nerfing them in the "healing pack" way would be unfair.

[Mr.Ace 1,116]

isida is good the way it is if u see a group of isidas u cant kill them alone but with support from team mates you can ( im not isida user check my profile if u don't believe me) if this update happens next day some other guy will say 5 fire birds shoot at once reduce damage when they do so , then some one will say if 2 or more smokys shoot u once u will recive 20% less damage ... and so on . every gun i mean every single gun has unique properties , you dont like isidas grouping its not the isidas fault if it heals it is his property , you use railgun the most so if i say decrease the amount of railguns damage if 2 railguns shoot u within 3 seconds time ...

 

every gun possesses a unique power and ure trying  to reduce that from isida just cause they are too strong for you to handle if they group (if im not wrong)

 

if isidas group u have to shoot the lightest hull first and with a DD equiped with 2 rails who attack together like a group and can even take down a titan m3 or can atleast kill a hunter m3 without DD so if they team up and play as a team healing each other u can get isida and do the same or team up with some other guy (like isidas do) and blow them up from a long range turret

Edited March 16, 2016 by Mr.Ace

[Mr.Ace 1,116]

If you reduce one stat for example according to you the power should be decreased when an isida heals another isida if you decrease it by -40 isida will become unpopular btw when ever a stat is decreased one is increase if u decrease 40% when isida heal isida then it will increase 40 when an isida heals a non isida or something like that

[bossman161 276]

Group of Isidas -> healing each other -> overpowered team

 

 

I played a 7vs7 battle together with Generalissimos, mostly M4 gear.

Kungur, Drops+, Supplies-, MUs+

 

It was a pretty good battle, but then the enemy team suddenly changed equipment

-> and we faced 4 Isidas and 3 "normal" tanks

 

 

From that moment on, we lost.. and had no chance to do anything against it.

That Isidas moved in a group, and we simply did not manage to kill them fast enough.

While we tried to takkle the Isidas, the other tanks took our flag or took us appart - or both -.-

 

 

 

Thinking about this, I came up with the Idea, that an Isisda's healing should be lowered only if it heals another Isisda.

So it's damage and healing stays the same, but when healing another Isida, this healing is nerved with -30..-40%

 

 

This would also lower the 2xVulcan+2xIsida balance problem a little, as it becomes more feasible to take Isida groups out.

Stop complaining about isidas, its clear the other team was very well organized. 

[ELIZABETH1122 337]

Stop complaining about isidas, its clear the other team was very well organized. 

Its Isidas today, Shaft yesterday, what else tomorrow?  Oh, I know ,anything that takes who ever down.  In the past years it was always rail gun users moaning about this or that taking them out so easily, usually shaft! It never occurred to many of them that they needed heavier hulls and better paints.  Perhaps it did but it would have stopped them charging about like the cavalry, so they go around in Hornets and Wasps.    What do they expect.  The two most vulnerable units are Shaft because it is mainly stationary, is very slow at reload, has very narrow vision so is more or less blind and telegraphs its intentions with that stupid Lazer, it also has to be very, very, accurate.  Isida because it needs to get very close and is often very exposed and fights in the heat of battle.  Both of these units usually prep very well with paints or large mass or both, they usually don't go around like red Indians circling the wagon train waiting to be taken down by John Wain.

[Benefactor 6,888]

Stop complaining about isidas, its clear the other team was very well organized. 

This is also a very likely scenario.

[bossman161 276]

Its Isidas today, Shaft yesterday, what else tomorrow?  Oh, I know ,anything that takes who ever down.  In the past years it was always rail gun users moaning about this or that taking them out so easily, usually shaft! It never occurred to many of them that they needed heavier hulls and better paints.  Perhaps it did but it would have stopped them charging about like the cavalry, so they go around in Hornets and Wasps.    What do they expect.  The two most vulnerable units are Shaft because it is mainly stationary, is very slow at reload, has very narrow vision so is more or less blind and telegraphs its intentions with that stupid Lazer, it also has to be very, very, accurate.  Isida because it needs to get very close and is often very exposed and fights in the heat of battle.  Both of these units usually prep very well with paints or large mass or both, they usually don't go around like red Indians circling the wagon train waiting to be taken down by John Wain.

As a Shafter, I know that the chance of being sniped by another Shaft or killed by an Isida is low, however those are the most dangerous situations, therefore I have my Dirty paint at 39% from Shaft, and my Electra with 33 from Isida. If I become annoyed with a Rail, I can equip my Tundra paint with 33 from Railgun. I have some pretty strong paints I think, agreed?

Edited March 16, 2016 by bossman161

[Benefactor 6,888]

As a Shafter, I know that the chance of being sniped by another Shaft or killed by an Isida is low, however those are the most dangerous situations, therefore I have my Dirty paint at 39% from Shaft, and my Electra with 33 from Isida. If I become annoyed with a Rail, I can equip my Tundra paint with 33 from Railgun. I have some pretty strong paints I think, agreed?

Those are some jacked-up paints, but what if all three turrets are in the battle at the same time? Which paint do you choose?

[bossman161 276]

Those are some jacked-up paints, but what if all three turrets are in the battle at the same time? Which paint do you choose?

Simple: whichever one bothers me the most. Isidas tend to hang back and heal teammates while Shafters tend to avoid me because of my M2 Mammoth (I purposely made it my main combo for pathological purposes, deterrent for being attacked) so logic dictates I have the most to worry from with Railguns. Sure I can use Electra, however I have noticed 33% doesn't help me last much longer when under fire against an M3 Isida, so Tundra, Mammoth, Shaft is my main load out.

[Maf 32,300]

The complete rework option may make it extra hard to use the isida. I think that eventually it could adversely affect the popularity of the gun.

Well, good! At least then it won't be considered a "noob" gun anymore because it will be hard to use and its popularity will go down so there won't be 5 Isidas in each team on a Kungur match anymore.

[Lord-of-the-Snipers 1,620]

That seems a bit unfair. Yeah, i agree that Isida needs a nerf, but this would just make it really inconvenient for Isidas. I'd much rather have a nerf on healing speed instead, so when healing another Isida, the healing would be slower but the energy expenditure rate would also be reduced. 

 

Or a complete rework of Isida's healing function - make it so that it has two bars, one for energy and one for matter. It would respawn with full energy and matter, but to heal it would need to spend some matter and the only way to get the matter back and continue healing would be to attack an enemy and regain some matter at the expense of energy. Seems like an update that would make Isida much more balanced and dependent on skill (i.e. not a "noob" gun).

Brilliant idea.

 

It would definitely be the end to nub Isidas who 's only existence in Tanki seems

to be to become some sort of continuous close to static drip feed.

A kind of drip feed that unfortunately can lead to almost invulnerable combinations like Vulcan with Isida(s).

 

Isida is more or less balanced a bit on the week side maybe.  I see from you your profile that you hardly ever use it.  If it is so wonderful why not use it?

Well, I have a Hammer M4 (alt) in garage, OP turret in my view, but I hardly play with it.

Simply because one way or the other I don 't enjoy playing with it.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Lord-of-the-Snipers

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Why did so many participants get agressive here?

 

Balance in my view = there should be no tactic, that assures a sure win.. a counter tactic should be possible.

Meaning the Maps, turrets and hulls have to be balanced to serve this idea (and most of them are today).

 

Silence games are usually won by capping one or two flags, and then setting up a shield of Vulcans, Isisdas.. and harvesting sore for the rest of the game. Sure win. Well half the game talks about this _combination_ is overpowered...

 

--

 

Maps with good cover can be ruled by groups of Isidas, because they are virutally unstoppable if they use cover from time to time. Sure win again. And I do not talk about the damage they deal. I did never say that

But while "usual tanks" do wear down over time, packs of Isidas do not wear down.

The issue here is, that a pack of Isidas can heal almost every damage that is dealt to them, if they move clever and use cover.

Edited March 16, 2016 by BlackWasp777