Valid Lower healing rate when Isida heals another Isida

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

An isida heals whoever needs healing, that is its role. Having to ignore healing a fellow healer because it'll take longer to do so is just unfair. I have to admit though, you saying that the Isidas should just go get themselves killed to re-heal themselves was quite amusing. :lol:  A little unfair though, no? ;)

I would not set it out as "have to ignore him as healing takes longer".

Even today an Isida has to judge whom to heal.. will this guy with the low health over there survive long enough given the two incoming turrets, in order to make my healing useful for the team? Do I first heal the Rail-sniper on the left or the Twins-defender on the right?

Isidas have to make this decision through out all the battle, to keep their team going as efficient as possible.

 

Therefore it also makes sense to heal the second Isida in the team, as it should make sense to the second Isida to heal me. Thats because it helps the team.

Sure it is "less convinient and less easy" as today, but that's the principle of a nerv, isn't it?

 

And because of the suicice: I do that frequently, if I play Rail defense and if no Isida is around. Instead of waiting with 10% remaining health for the next imcoming wave, I wait for a period of temporary silence in midfield and go forward to get killed.

One of the enemies looses a shot, and I have time to spawn until they are around us again.

When they come, I have full health, instead of beeing an 1shot kill. This serves my team and I do it for tactical reasons.

 

 

And I was talking more about a roaming midfielder Isida, one that runs from camper to camper healing their allies. When doing this, considering it'll take longer to heal any Isida's, every non-Isida would get priority when choosing who to heal.

 

 

A roaming midfield Isida that roams from one midfield camper to the other?

The only camping Isidas that I've ever seen in midfield camp beside a damage dealer. If those two are hurt, and the roaming midfield Isida goes there to heal them, it sounds more useful to me, that the roaming Isida heals the camping Isida first; as while it does so, the Camping Isida can recharge it's damage dealer buddy. Elsewise the roaming ISida would have to heal both.. or have I got your scenario wrong?

 

 

 

I've been joining no-supply battles for a few years now and there is a major difference in how I see an enemy base full of Isidas since the Isida self-heal nerf....Since then, Isida is a quite average turret and I don't see loads of them around anymore in legend battles, perhaps because it doesn't suit a lot of people anymore. I just don't see why there's a couple of topics in this section suggesting to nerf it. Isida is nowhere near as good as it used to be. Its a good healer. Yes!...but if its forced to attack instead of heal then isida can become useless very quickly.

imho the way of gameplay that fit's the Isida turret changed a lot after the takeaway of the selfhealing. I stopped to play my (on this account brand new) Isida back then.. an I use ot only occasionally if the battle requires me to do so. Right after this change the number of Isidas dropped massively. After it's damage was increased recently, some more players are using it, but most of the ones I see use it with different tactics.

 

They are either damge dealers (Isida can deal more damage then a Freeze, and has no damage-decrease-over-range issue).. and this set's a lot of players up, especially when they melt away on a DP Isida (well, supplies.. not so much an problem of the ISida itself). Others complain that you can not kill a tank beeing healed by an Isida (not realising that they compare one tank vs two).

 

personally an Isida seems rather balanced to me in the battles where I play. Only as packs (about ~4 of them and more) they support each other in a way that no other tank team can. That's my issue.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

How about this for a solution? (not sure if this has been suggested by you or someone else BTW)

 

An isidas rate of healing another Isida is lowered only if there are other Isidas within a certain range of those 2 isidas. How wide this range is?...would be a much wider range than the supplies-boost range that's used for the Overdrive system. Perhaps, the range could be something like the actual damage/healing range of Isida?...or maybe even wider?

The thing with the range could work.. although it's a bit hard to get the hang of such influences (for the tankers that use it).

As they managed to implament the fairy-dust of the overdrive effect, they maybe can draw a circle around the ISida as well, showing the area that is affected by this feature.

 

Your idea gave me another inspiration: would it be bad, if one tank can only he healed by one Isida at a time? If a second Isida applies it's healing as well, it will not heal and it's beam will get another color, indicating that there happens no heal. In the first 0,5 sec it will not loose energy on the not working healing aproach, but afterwards it will.

 

For the tankers this should be pretty straight forward. They see if another isida heals the tank, as they see the beam as well as they see the health increase. If two activate the beam simultaniously, one beam will turn black and this Isida can release the healing (hmm.. may 0,5 sec are too short..).

For an Isida pack this would mean, that if the enemies focus the fire on a single Isida out of the pack, they can not keep this single Isida alive while on the go. Even if they are behind cover, they have a time Issue: if the enemy fire comes in fast enough they can not make use of the pooled, faster healing (three Isidas healing one that is hurt).

[wolverine848 13,097]

According to the example that I received (Rail+Isi -vs- Isi+Isi) I went for Thunder+Isida -vs- Isida+Isida.. so it was 2tanks vs 2 tanks.

(Thunder deals more avg.dmg.per time then Rail, so I went for Thunder right away).

 

 

About Hammers, Firebirds and Twins I do not know.

I know that an Isida kills faster then a Twins for sure (I get owned by Isidas regularly on Polygon), but of course the Twins has the range addvantage, but for sure no Isida pilot is stupid enough to wait in the open. If he waits behind a corner the Twins can forget his advantages.

 

But whatever tanks attacks, if they make it through they are severely damaged.

If Isidas make it through they heal each other as pack.

This is the quote I was referring to. (From LW)

 

"if you have two tanks firing at one Isida as a pair it is the same exact mathmatical situation as if your two tanks were firing on the Rail in a an Isida/Rail pair. Are Rails impossible to kill in this situation? No they aren't are they?"

 

2 tanks firing at A) Isida/Isida or B ) Isida/Rail

How are they different?

In A the target (one isida) has an isida healing it. In B the target (Rail) has an isida healing it.

There is no difference in how easy/difficult it is to kill the "target".

 

So how can you say in A we will nerf the healing compared to B?

Edited July 28, 2017 by wolverine848

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Maps. Two Isidas on an Island team mean one powerful team. Two Isidas on Desert are a different story. 

 

When it comes to design I do not much like the approach to make a turret work differently when used on one specific turret or hull or whatever.  If there is a problem that cannot be overcome regardless of tactics then use a better fix than this speciual cae type approach.

 

IF

 

there is a real problem. But since we are about to be hit with Matchmaking and 6 new OD systems it would be the height of folly to attempt a rebalancing right now.

 

Fortunately the TO devs are simply too busy with eeh new additions to take up this call for the 4th or 5th major Isida redesign in a 12 month period. If we are liucky they will let ther new system run for months before they try another round of re-balancing re-designs.

[D.a.n.t.e 475]

A delay is an interresting approach. Would it work against all enemies like that?

Anytime you switch form damage to heal or heal to damage, to any type of turret including Isida.

 

I'm thinking 2 seconds of delay.

 

Think as if inside Isida things are adjusting for a different modality.

 

There could be a sound for that.

 

When the Isida is not shooting for 2 seconds, it is ready to damage or heal again.

 

To compensate that, Isida should get 25% angle for aiming.

[Amagi 1,728]

What about when healing an enemy under fire, and Isida heals more slowly (about 30-50% slower), since the nanobots doing the repair work are also being damaged/destroyed in the process.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Anytime you switch form damage to heal or heal to damage, to any type of turret including Isida.

 

I'm thinking 2 seconds of delay.

 

Think as if inside Isida things are adjusting for a different modality.

 

There could be a sound for that.

 

When the Isida is not shooting for 2 seconds, it is ready to damage or heal again.

 

To compensate that, Isida should get 25% angle for aiming.

2 second delay while I am in combat?  Just be merciful and delete Isida frm the game instead of that.

 

I guess non-Isida users think the way to play an Isida is to find a Vulcan then put a hand on the space bar and the other hand on well let's just say it has to be dropped before grabbing your socks.

 

But in play I do actual different things!

 

Sometime I save my teammate by lealing him while he is under fire. Sometimes I save him by helping him kill the enemy. Other time I save him ny healing him a little then attacking as well, then healing him back after the foe is dead.

 

Other times I am  might go to heal a friend but my beam touches on the enemy for a second because they are so close. If this ever happens with a 2 second delay I am screwed.

 

Let's just put this and all other balancing topics to bed until we see what is what with 7 ODs in the game.

Edited July 29, 2017 by LittleWillie

[LittleWillie 3,199]

What about when healing an enemy under fire, and Isida heals more slowly (about 30-50% slower), since the nanobots doing the repair work are also being damaged/destroyed in the process.

This proposal has the advantage of being simple and applies to all healed tank types equally.

 

Except ... how to define a tank under fire? With a Firebird this is relatively easy but with a Shaft? A magnum?

[D.a.n.t.e 475]

2 second delay while I am in combat?  Just be merciful and delete Isida frm the game instead of that.

 

I guess non-Isida users think the way to play an Isida is to find a Vulcan then put a hand on the space bar and the other hand on well let's just say it has to be dropped before grabbing your socks.

 

But in play I do actual different things!

 

Sometime I save my teammate by lealing him while he is under fire. Sometimes I save him by helping him kill the enemy. Other time I save him ny healing him a little then attacking as well, then healing him back after the foe is dead.

 

Other times I am  might go to heal a friend but my beam touches on the enemy for a second because they are so close. If this ever happens with a 2 second delay I am screwed.

 

Let's just put this and all other balancing topics to bed until we see what is what with 7 ODs in the game.

I too play like you say, switching from healing to attacking while moving my tank to avoid Fires and Freezes, trying to kill the enemy and keep the team mate alive. But this is what makes good Isidas too powerful; in this case the Isida and his or her team mate will survive most of the time, and if they are both Isidas, they'll fully heal each other.

 

If your beam touches the enemy, then you should go back to attacking the enemy if you don't want to wait for the 2 seconds. You are not screwed, but you team mate probably is... and it is you fault for not being careful. ;)

Edited July 29, 2017 by D.a.n.t.e

[Amagi 1,728]

This proposal has the advantage of being simple and applies to all healed tank types equally.

 

Except ... how to define a tank under fire? With a Firebird this is relatively easy but with a Shaft? A magnum?

Hmm what about the healing rate would be halved for about 3-5 seconds after being shot by something.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

This is the quote I was referring to. (From LW)

 

"if you have two tanks firing at one Isida as a pair it is the same exact mathmatical situation as if your two tanks were firing on the Rail in a an Isida/Rail pair. Are Rails impossible to kill in this situation? No they aren't are they?"

 

2 tanks firing at A) Isida/Isida or B ) Isida/Rail

How are they different?

In A the target (one isida) has an isida healing it. In B the target (Rail) has an isida healing it.

There is no difference in how easy/difficult it is to kill the "target".

 

So how can you say in A we will nerf the healing compared to B?

Because in A I can flank them, harm one Isida, die, and no damage will prevail (as they heal each other).

while in B I can flank them, harm one Isida, die, and the damage will prevail (as the rail can not heal the Isida)

 

I put it a bit simple, and I know it depends on maps, situations,and so on.. but that's pretty much the core.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Anytime you switch form damage to heal or heal to damage, to any type of turret including Isida.

 

I'm thinking 2 seconds of delay.

This will also harm a single Isida trying to do a good job in it's team of non-Isidas.. and I see no reason for such a nerf in a single-Isida situation (even if there are three Isidas in a team, they are fine as they are today, as long as they do not stick togehter and heal each other all the time)

[D.a.n.t.e 475]

This will also harm a single Isida trying to do a good job in it's team of non-Isidas.. and I see no reason for such a nerf in a single-Isida situation (even if there are three Isidas in a team, they are fine as they are today, as long as they do not stick togehter and heal each other all the time)

I think it can balance Isida and prevent Isida pack domination when the other team is weak. If 2 seconds is too much, then we should try 1.5 or 1 second.

 

I use Isida and I'll learn to use it with the delay, I always stop firing anyway to recharge.

 

If 2 seconds happens to be too much, devs can remove the 'energy consumption without target' feature to compensate. It is a good idea, I think I'm gonna post it in a topic.

Edited July 30, 2017 by D.a.n.t.e

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Hmm what about the healing rate would be halved for about 3-5 seconds after being shot by something.

My first thought is this will not work well. A fast shooter can keep its target constantly in 'slow heal mode'. A slow shooter cannot.

 

I think it can balance Isida and prevent Isida pack domination when the other team is weak. If 2 seconds is too much, then we should try 1.5 or 1 second.

 

I use Isida and I'll learn to use it with the delay, I always stop firing anyway to recharge.

 

If 2 seconds happens to be too much, devs can remove the 'energy consumption without target' feature to compensate. It is a good idea, I think I'm gonna post it in a topic.

I won't. If this concept is put in for Isidas that will be all it takes to push me over the edge into never playing TO again.

[Crimson_Tank 285]

We can all agree Isida needs a rebalance right? 

[wolverine848 13,097]

We can all agree Isida needs a rebalance right? 

Yes.

 

A bit more DPS and 2 more seconds on attack and we're gold. GOLD!

 

Re-balance achieved.

[Crimson_Tank 285]

Yes.

 

A bit more DPS and 2 more seconds on attack and we're gold. GOLD!

 

Re-balance achieved.

It's OP tho :O

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

Yes.

 

A bit more DPS and 2 more seconds on attack and we're gold. GOLD!

 

Re-balance achieved.

the only small problem i have with isida is that it gets a little too much exp and always steals my 1st place in highways TDM... but combat wise i agree it isn't op and could use a buff

 

my ideal rebalance: increase dps and attack time, slightly nerf exp  gain from healing.

 

OR

 

make it such that isidas cannot heal each other but whenever an isida isn't atacking or healing anyone it's goes on automatic self heal mode. during this time it doesn't charge power until it's health is full.

Edited August 2, 2017 by GuidoFawkes

[wolverine848 13,097]

the only small problem i have with isida is that it gets a little too much exp and always steals my 1st place in TDM... but combat wise i agree it isn't op and could use a buff

I was joking - mostly due to the other thread.

 

I honestly don't think it needs any buff. I was disappointed when they took all self-healing away but it is effective as is.

 

All depends on team-mates and competition. Using an Isida with a bunch of hornet team-mates is an exercise in futility.

 

EDIT:

So an Isida regains no energy until it has fully healed?

That would be a HUGE nerf. All you have to do is keep it below 100% health - even a little splash damage would make it useless.

Edited August 2, 2017 by wolverine848

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

I was joking - mostly due to the other thread.

 

I honestly don't think it needs any buff. I was disappointed when they took all self-healing away but it is effective as is.

 

All depends on team-mates and competition. Using an Isida with a bunch of hornet team-mates is an exercise in futility.

 

EDIT:

So an Isida regains no energy until it has fully healed?

That would be a HUGE nerf. All you have to do is keep it below 100% health - even a little splash damage would make it useless.

-- remove that-- doesn't charge power part

[LittleWillie 3,199]

We can all agree Isida needs a rebalance right? 

Nothing should get a re-balance - bot even Magnum - until the new 7-way Overdrive system has been up and running for at least two months. Only then will it be able to answer this question.

[Crimson_Tank 285]

Nothing should get a re-balance - bot even Magnum - until the new 7-way Overdrive system has been up and running for at least two months. Only then will it be able to answer this question.

2 months?! Nope, at least a week is enough to get all the info needed. And the only weapon that is unbalanced is isida. All other weapons are strong. Not OP as they all have their draw backs but also fit different battle styles. Isida just heals and eats your life away. 

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

2 months?! Nope, at least a week is enough to get all the info needed. And the only weapon that is unbalanced is isida. All other weapons are strong. Not OP as they all have their draw backs but also fit different battle styles. Isida just heals and eats your life away. 

1 week?? nonono... you know even 1 month after magnum got released there were still lots of people who thought it was too underpowered because people simply hadn't mastered it yet, but look at right now how many of them are complaning it's way too OP

[Crimson_Tank 285]

1 week?? nonono... you know even 1 month after magnum got released there were still lots of people who thought it was too underpowered because people simply hadn't mastered it yet, but look at right now how many of them are complaning it's way too OP

So you want me to change my opinion? Nope not gonna happen, one week is enough I say. And it's not like I work at Tanki so why does my opinion seem to bother everybody? 

[LittleWillie 3,199]

2 months?! Nope, at least a week is enough to get all the info needed. And the only weapon that is unbalanced is isida. All other weapons are strong. Not OP as they all have their draw backs but also fit different battle styles. Isida just heals and eats your life away. 

Clearly you've never been an experimentalist for a living. 

 

In one week the player base will hardly have mastered use of this complete game transformation. The first weeks data will bear little resemblence to the 8th week's.