Valid Lower healing rate when Isida heals another Isida

[Maf 32,300]

 

Topic merged

[Hate 5,582]

 

Isida lost its ability to heal itself, got nerfed then buffed then nerfed...I lost count of how many times has it been changed but that isn't the issue in here and now with the latest update, Isida lost its ability to heal teammates who are burning and take out the burning effect. I know how hard it is to go against Isida train but what is the point of even using Isida, either heal all equally or simply just take the healing from it once and for all and just change the Turret's name to something else so it becomes like just any other Turret. 

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Isida lost its ability to heal itself, got nerfed then buffed then nerfed...I lost count of how many times has it been changed [..]

Yep.. sadly..

 

Back when I posted that Idea, an ISida was still self-healing and so on..

I think I will adapt my startpost a bit, to make clear that for the downturn of Isida-to-Isida healing it could gain some other thing that was lost in the last 2 years.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Isida lost its ability to heal itself, got nerfed then buffed then nerfed...I lost count of how many times has it been changed but that isn't the issue in here and now with the latest update, Isida lost its ability to heal teammates who are burning and take out the burning effect. I know how hard it is to go against Isida train but what is the point of even using Isida, either heal all equally or simply just take the healing from it once and for all and just change the Turret's name to something else so it becomes like just any other Turret. 

Another option is to learn how to adapt to this extremely adaptable change. 

[Maf 32,300]

Isida is not overpowered.

Isida on its own is fine. It's when multiple Isidas stick together in a train and heal each other - then it becomes a problem.

[sensei_tanker 3,098]

Topic merged

Maf, I feel like my topic should be a second topic since that I am adding a completely different feature to the isida-train effect (instead of just reducing healing rate). Since that the topics are nonetheless similar, it's your own choice to leave it merged or you can make it a separate topic, I'm just asking. 

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Isida on its own is fine. It's when multiple Isidas stick together in a train and heal each other - then it becomes a problem.

Isida chains are just a tactic. Finding good tactics is ta goal in any game.

 

The Isida chain can be broken because that tactic is a gambit. It sacrifices all damage for maximum survivability.  That allows the chain's foes unimpeded fire to disrupt the chain,  Best team wins.

 

TO's change seems to be to be very informed. THose two turrets were presented difficulties in that situation no other turrets faced.  This chance is surgical. It corrects the special issues with Fire and Freeze but leaves the rest of the game intact. In the world of design this is called elegance.

Edited June 26, 2018 by LittleWillie

[Maf 32,300]

That's called a tactic. Finding good tactics is the point of any game.

 

Such a tactic is good in real war, where the goal is to survive and advance as effectively as possible. But this is a game, where the goal is to let both teams have fun, where among the key elements of fun are balance and dynamic gameplay. When your whole team is shooting at a bunch of Isidas and can't do anything because they keep healing each other, that's neither balanced or fun.

[Maf 32,300]

Maf, I feel like my topic should be a second topic since that I am adding a completely different feature to the isida-train effect (instead of just reducing healing rate). Since that the topics are nonetheless similar, it's your own choice to leave it merged or you can make it a separate topic, I'm just asking.

 

I decided to compromise and moved your post to #2 in this topic. Hope that's fine.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Such a tactic is good in real war, where the goal is to survive and advance as effectively as possible. But this is a game, where the goal is to let both teams have fun, where among the key elements of fun are balance and dynamic gameplay. When your whole team is shooting at a bunch of Isidas and can't do anything because they keep healing each other, that's neither balanced or fun.

Isidas have limited supply of enegery - they can't keep healing forever.

 

And then there's Shaft - 1 shaft on DD will instantly kill an isida on medium hull (without protection module).  If they are protected from Shaft there's always a diff turret they are not protected from. Twins on DD that NEVER.STOPS.FIRING would make short work of even an isida train.

 

One thing people forget when discussing isida trains... add the same # of opponents... 4 isidas - 4 enemies targeting THE LAST ISIDA. You will quickly have 4 dead isidas.

 

Speaking of fun... it's always fun to spawn and instantly be killed before you can even hit DA... ;)

[Maf 32,300]

Isidas have limited supply of enegery - they can't keep healing forever.

 

And then there's Shaft - 1 shaft on DD will instantly kill an isida on medium hull (without protection module).  If they are protected from Shaft there's always a diff turret they are not protected from. Twins on DD that NEVER.STOPS.FIRING would make short work of even an isida train.

I don't know man, based on my own experience it seems like two M4 Isidas on DD healing each other seem to have infinite healing potential. Impossible to kill.

[First-Aid 1]

What if Isida did have self-healing (maybe start at 20%), but only when healing a teammate? How many Isidas would then actively go out searching for teammates to heal rather than the not-so-smart strategy of "come to the base if you need to be healed"? Of course, to retain balance, self-healing will be neutralized when healing another Isida or attacking an enemy.

[wolverine848 13,097]

I don't know man, based on my own experience it seems like two M4 Isidas on DD healing each other seem to have infinite healing potential. Impossible to kill.

Not saying it will be easy... it's always more difficult to fight a coordinated team.

 

This is why I'm not a fan of battle-groups... they give a huge advantage.  Even when it's just 3, a mini-clan versus randoms is lop-sided.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Such a tactic is good in real war, where the goal is to survive and advance as effectively as possible. But this is a game, where the goal is to let both teams have fun, where among the key elements of fun are balance and dynamic gameplay. When your whole team is shooting at a bunch of Isidas and can't do anything because they keep healing each other, that's neither balanced or fun.

So you are saying players who can think of good tactics should be cut off at teh knees because more stupid players can't learn to counter it?

 

The Isida train is a TACTIC. Saying that explicitly means it is a legitimate way to cooperate it is not an exploit..  Tactics have counter tactics and that does apply to the the Isida train.

 

Here;s a SS.  The enemy team had a 4-tank Isida train.  Golly they HAD to win right?  It is IMPOSSIBLE to stop an Isida train. Help devs helllllp!

 

 

But, but, but ....I took my role that game to bust up the Isida train. I went around looking for it and busting it up all game long.  One tank, me  and not 2 not 3 but 4  Isidas.  Bottome line? Team wins, Isidas fail, and I have 9 kills 3 deaths..

 

So how the %#@%$ is the Isida train an exploit when it can be beat 1 on 4?

 

Waiting ... waiting ... waiting...

Edited June 26, 2018 by LittleWillie

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Isidas have limited supply of enegery - they can't keep healing forever.

 

And then there's Shaft - 1 shaft on DD will instantly kill an isida on medium hull (without protection module).  If they are protected from Shaft there's always a diff turret they are not protected from. Twins on DD that NEVER.STOPS.FIRING would make short work of even an isida train.

 

One thing people forget when discussing isida trains... add the same # of opponents... 4 isidas - 4 enemies targeting THE LAST ISIDA. You will quickly have 4 dead isidas.

 

Speaking of fun... it's always fun to spawn and instantly be killed before you can even hit DA... ;)

Every chain has its weak link and for the Isida train that's usually the one in the back. The ones in the front can't see him getting hit.

 

Let's break it down.

 

Two Isidas spend all game healing each other. Their 6 remaining teammates are left to fight the 8 enemies.  These Isidas are basically mults.  They are hurting their team by sitting in one spot and constantly healing each other.  So why exactly is the Isida train such a big deal?

 

It is a big deal because the Isada train can use aa window of time to rush at a defended location to seize a flag or a CP and escape before their ability to withstand a pounding runs out.

 

Therefore another tool to defeating the train is to delay them just a bit. Once the juice runs low the Isida train is dead meat.  This is how to beat a Rico with a Smoky.  You gotta delay his kill by making him miss a couple times.  Then his window of advantage closes and you take the initiative.

 

I've played Isida trains on both sides of the coin. It almost always comes down to the players. I've been routed and have routed myself on both sides.

[Maf 32,300]

But, but, but ....I took my role that game to bust up the Isida train. I went around looking for it and busting it up all game long.  One tank, me  and not 2 not 3 but 4  Isidas.  Bottome line? Team wins, Isidas fail, and I have 9 kills 3 deaths..

 

So how the %#@%$ is the Isida train an exploit when it can be beat 1 on 4?

 

Waiting ... waiting ... waiting...

Like I said above, my opinion is based on personal experience. Obviously there are exceptions, when your team is coordinated or when the Isidas are disorganised, but in most cases you just sit there for a full minute shooting at them with DD and it does nothing. I have no idea how you managed to bother those Isidas with Smoky, since it doesn't one-shot them.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Like I said above, my opinion is based on personal experience. Obviously there are exceptions, when your team is coordinated or when the Isidas are disorganised, but in most cases you just sit there for a full minute shooting at them with DD and it does nothing. I have no idea how you managed to bother those Isidas with Smoky, since it doesn't one-shot them.

I beat them because I was looking for them.  I was not sitting at teh site they were tying for. I would hit them from the flank while they were focused on their attack.

 

They were always looking for each other.It takes awhile to find one another on a map and get close enough to cooperate.  IIRC they had a Hunter a Viking and two Hornets. I have Titan / Smoky. When I'd first see them it was usually a situation where a couple were close together, a third trailing roughly in Isida range of the lead two. The 4th was often a bit furtert behind racing to catch the group.  Sometimes they'd be closer but in a string of 4 tanks they tend to string out some.  Especially 2 mediums and 2 lights.

 

So I'd hit teh trailer. He'd veer from impact and fall further behind.. the other 3 would have no idea. Now it is 1 on 1 and I eat light hull Isidas for lunch, I bat them around like a cat batting a mouse as they try but fail to keep their beam on me.  Burp.  So now I com behind the train and take the rear most under fire.  He;s dead. Burp. But the other two notice me. But they are down on energy. Burp. Burp.

 

Now they respawn strung out a bit in time and on various parts of the map.. They look for one another. They get in loose formation and attack.  I see them.  I aim for the straggler. 

 

Excuse me I feel a bout of indigestion coming on.

 

(PS:  Full disclosure I did not have to kill all 4 isidas myself to break u their train. I just had to make sure their efforts to coordinate were disrupted., Maybe I'd kill 1 myself or 2 not all 4 myself.(I think I did get all 4 once.) Just so long as the train never got going.)

Edited June 26, 2018 by LittleWillie

[Potdindy 866]

I like the update. If any of you have ever played an island game where the enemy team popped out 2 isidas, thn you would know what frustration means. The ideal is an equal number of players attacking the isidas, but real life means that doesn't happen. Even one tanker can disrupt an attack and keep the enemy from attacking the isidas at once. I have played many island games that started fun but ended in blowouts because we could not kill their healers.

 

I wonder if the Isida healing worked like the repair kit. It should work best after a battle, while being less effective in battle

[Best_of_thunder_2015 1,354]

100% true

 

BWT Isda has only healing disadvantages that doesn't do anything with the kills. .-. 

 

Damage needs to be reduced slight .-. I still can't believe that a isda can kill Double armor Dictator with 3 secs of beam. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

I like the update. If any of you have ever played an island game where the enemy team popped out 2 isidas, thn you would know what frustration means. The ideal is an equal number of players attacking the isidas, but real life means that doesn't happen. Even one tanker can disrupt an attack and keep the enemy from attacking the isidas at once. I have played many island games that started fun but ended in blowouts because we could not kill their healers.

 

I wonder if the Isida healing worked like the repair kit. It should work best after a battle, while being less effective in battle

So updates should be based on specialty maps found only in "Pro-Battles", and with uneven odds?

 

Two firebirds can kill my Titan Ricco.  Nerf Firebirds ;)

 

100% true

 

BWT Isda has only healing disadvantages that doesn't do anything with the kills. .-. 

 

Damage needs to be reduced slight .-. I still can't believe that a isda can kill Double armor Dictator with 3 secs of beam. 

You mean an isida with Double Damage activated, right?

[Defender 1,337]

I would make it like this: When Isida is damaging an enemy who has for example 50% protection, it's damage is reduced by half. So if isida heals his/her teammate, the healing speed should also be decreased by half. What do you think?

[Maf 32,300]

 I'd much rather have a nerf on healing speed instead, so when healing another Isida, the healing would be slower but the energy expenditure rate would also be reduced. 

Hmm, I guess this bit got implemented  ^_^

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

I would make it like this: When Isida is damaging an enemy who has for example 50% protection, it's damage is reduced by half. So if isida heals his/her teammate, the healing speed should also be decreased by half. What do you think?

Nope.