The Forum's Condition

[Fen-Harel 1,176]

Alright, the title may seem like I'm taking some sort of high ground analysing what other people do, but I'd like you to bear with me on this one. I'm generally not an active forumer and I basically only follow the Off-Topic section and the Newspaper. This means that I'll specifically address certain aspects of the Off-Topic discussion, since I think it concerns everyone who frequents that particular section.

 

Sadly, topics with potential for a decent discussion in Off-Topic either go on a tangent about completely irrelevant conversations that can be easily moved to PM, or start up questions that can be answered by a single Google search. Most people just stick to PotD at this point which hinders discussion in other topics where it would be more appropriate.

 

Examples

 

Recently the Off-Topic forum noticeably started lacking any form of actual discussion. Now, I'm all for people posting whatever they want on the forum and I'm not trying to censor anyone, but this doesn't mean I can't advocate a viewpoint that encourages thoughtfulness. Completely useless and frankly nonsensical replies with only an emoticon, a single word, "?", "lol" and such simply flood the page, since you're not adding in anything constructive to the conversation. I can't, nor will I ever try to forbid you to post such things, but I will strive to encourage people to avoid such behaviour. I'm sure many would agree that this open forum would be a lot more pleasant if we have both free speech and constructive ideas, rather than a bunch of replies with practically no value.

 

Even moderators have noticed how much people are straying away from what was initially supposed to be the thread discussion.

 

The Data

 

In case some of you still aren't aware of what I'm talking about, I'll easily demonstrate it with a few numbers I've gathered on the 8th of May.

 

I know I probably don't even need all this to prove my point, since it's so obvious to anyone that looks at the forum, but I just don't want to be accused of making stuff up.

 

As you can see in the picture above, I've taken the 13 most recent "hot" topics on the Off-Topic forum and decided to check if they're actually filled with nonsense as many have implied. The main concern was how I could judge certain posts to be irrelevant to the discussion. Obviously to do so, I'd have to check every single post, which I wasn't going to waste my time on, although I had a pretty good idea of which topics were flooded with pointless ones. This is why I decided to take the top 4 posters that happen to be on the "Top 20 posters of the day" forum page. Now, it may very well be the case that those 4 people happen to post more than they regularly do on that day, but you'll see later why this isn't the case. I didn't really expect the results to be like this, because those I pretty much randomly took my sample of 4 people, but what I found out was quite intriguing. I checked how many times these 4 people replied to the listed topics and concluded that about 50% of posts in the most recent topics have been made by the same 4 people. Then I decided to check if the discussion is actually moving forward by seeing how many different people reply to a topic. For simplicity, I've decided to check how many times the topic creator replied to his own topic. Worryingly, I got the result that, on average, almost a quarter of posts are made by the topic creator. Also, keep in mind this was all over the last 100 days on average, meaning it's not only a recent point, it's something that's been happening for a while. This on first glance may not seem like much since the topic creator might be trying to continue a particular discussion or keep the thread going, but look at some of the topics I've taken in the list (ex. "How tall are you?"), some surely shouldn't require such topic direction since the initial purpose is stated in an explicitly clear manner.

 

So, to quickly recap the findings:

 - On average, about 50% of posts in the most popular recent topics in the Off-Topic seciton have been made by the same 4 people.

 - On average, about 25% of posts are made by the topic creator

 

I think this is the cause of the recent dislike of the forum. It's mostly the same people talking about completely generic and irrelevant stuff on pretty much every popular topic. As a consequence of that, those topics become even more "popular" which makes them more often seen by other forumers (perhaps even first time visitors), who then judge the forum as being full of nonsensical discussion and don't want to contribute.

 

Possible solutions?

 

At this point most of you are probably wondering what the point of this topic is. Well, I'm trying to bring people's attention to the problem and hopefully raise awareness that this forum can kick off again. For that to be achieved, two things are necessary:

 

1. Irrelevant and obviously nonsensical conversations should be removed and discouraged.

 

You might think this will reduce forum activity and lead to even more problems with no one posting at all. I disagree, mainly because I'm hoping that we get people actually putting more thought in what they say, rather than proudly spouting nonsense that no one really wants to see. This isn't a chat, it's a forum. You have the time to think about what you'll say, don't neglect that asset. Just take about 2 minutes to think if you can benefit the discussion in some additional way. It won't be easy to get the entire forum to work this way, but I believe it's the right direction to go towards and, with effort, it'll make this a more enjoyable place for everyone.

 

2. New players need to join the forum

 

This can generally apply to the game itself. It seems that most of the interesting and experienced people have quit the game at this point. Sadly, we can't quite change much in this regard, because us sharing the game to our friends probably won't do much when we look at the bigger picture. It seems to me this will have to be resolved by Tanki community managers and marketing experts advertising their game on sites that generally have a more mature playerbase. They've probably monitored this situation for a lot longer than I have, but considering the recent changes in the administration of this particular forum, I think it's good to bring this discussion to light.

 

To those that want to listen

 

I'm hoping this topic will get some of you to think about ways of improving the forum and actually take steps to make it better, if you so care. I don't think it's any player's duty by any means, but then again I think it would be nice if we could all pitch in to make it a more pleasant environment for everyone. I'm only inviting people willing and motivated on the subject to speak out on their own views on how the community can be improved. Would love to see players and moderators talk this out here, perhaps even administrators and the CM.

 

Anyway, I've given you my view on the subject, along with some data to back it up - now I'm hoping you'll form your own conclusions and start a decent discussion below. Any sort of ideas for improvement you may have will be greatly appreciated not only by me, but by all players who want this forum to go in the right direction and surely the Tanki crew as well. Thanks for taking a bit of your time to read this.

[Zenyth 6,494]

you have listed two of my topics in that list

one of them regarding the OSM game has very high % posts from author because only the club has less members and only like 3 are active and I have 3 accounts on that game so I report a lot of happenings to my friends there

the second is "share your voice" is an excellent topic though, imo

 

but yeah werty's topics go wayward a lot

[Darren4Turbo 4,913]

I agree with you, Fen. I think that those useless / nonsensical posts not related to a topic, should be removed by a Forum moderator and can be reported by any player so that a Forum moderator can come and remove them. That's just my suggestion.

Edited May 14, 2016 by Darren4Turbo

[Bydo 20,121]

ok then here  is one for you .. in the past players have asked to have a section to post comments about players game photos instead of posting comments in with potd but the mods refused .. we would like to have this only cause when a player does make a comment it gets buried in with photos and some times its like two or more pages hidden ,

 

its just like the photo gallery and we have a discussion area to make comments about it.

 

i do understand on the postings of   lol and thanks .. but some times this is all we can say or post pictures.. i do understand about the trolling and it does  get out of hand sometimes .. but we also want to be able to have fun .. if we can't post stuff then this forum will be so boring no one will want to come on and that's where its heading ..

[I3loodShot 3,119]

ok then here  is one for you .. in the past players have asked to have a section to post comments about players game photos instead of posting comments in with potd but the mods refused .. we would like to have this only cause when a player does make a comment it gets buried in with photos and some times its like two or more pages hidden ,

 

its just like the photo gallery and we have a discussion area to make comments about it.

 

i do understand on the postings of   lol and thanks .. but some times this is all we can say or post pictures.. i do understand about the trolling and it does  get out of hand sometimes .. but we also want to be able to have fun .. if we can't post stuff then this forum will be so boring no one will want to come on and that's where its heading ..

The forum got boring about a year ago, now it's just full of people who post useless things, as Fen said.

[Bydo 20,121]

The forum got boring about a year ago, now it's just full of people who post useless things, as Fen said.

i understand that but most of us have been here posting like that before and nothing was a issue then .. why now... ??

[Reeco9 1,567]

So, to quickly recap the findings:

 - On average, about 50% of posts in the most popular recent topics in the Off-Topic section have been made by the same 4 people.

 - On average, about 25% of posts are made by the topic creator

Wow.

I think we have reached the point where action should be taken to discourage pointless/nonsensical posts.

[Bydo 20,121]

more you read it .. i wonder why this could have not been said in private to the players who are posting .. and after yesterdays issue its best this topic got closed and not talked about any more...

[ExplosionsEverywhere 196]

more you read it .. i wonder why this could have not been said in private to the players who are posting .. and after yesterdays issue its best this topic got closed and not talked about any more...

so EVERYONE can see it Sherlock, and it would save time as u wouldn't have to post it to each person

[Bydo 20,121]

is this not against the rules for posting players names and also provoking fights with players... ... iam not a mod .. or have any intentions on provoking players ..i'am just saying what it looks like to me..

 

and yes its mighty cold here today in Antarctica ...

[Mr.Cashier 1,622]

Hmmmm...you Explained everything pretty nicely and I appreciate that.

I would like to say that Forum Moderators should have a strong check over the useless/Pointless posts and Topics.It should be removed/Hidden immediately and the creator of the topic should be informed via PM about the reason of closing/hiding the topic so that no one can create Topics like "Moderators are hiding my topic" or "Mods are strict".Personal issues and problems should be solved in PM's and the one who posts useless topics/posts should be given a Warning.I'd also say that it should be a responsibility of every tanker to inform Forum Mods about Useless posts because Mods can't keep an eye on every activity of the forum.Helping out Moderators is a good thing and that's what a Happy community is... :D.And you'll see the forum will be a much better place :D

 

And I think our community manager Sir(:v) @Cedric Debono should express his opinions over all this ^_^

Edited May 14, 2016 by Mr.Cashier

[I3loodShot 3,119]

 Sorry, but useless funny posts are better than an empty forum

But none of them are funny, they are just useless :mellow:

[lordmostafa 3,821]

If you ban or discourage players from posting these "non-useful" posts then you will hardly see any posts. Sorry, but useless funny posts are better than an empty forum

I am guessing you didn't read it all, so here is the part that concerns that:

 

You might think this will reduce forum activity and lead to even more problems with no one posting at all. I disagree, mainly because I'm hoping that we get people actually putting more thought in what they say, rather than proudly spouting nonsense that no one really wants to see. This isn't a chat, it's a forum. You have the time to think about what you'll say, don't neglect that asset. Just take about 2 minutes to think if you can benefit the discussion in some additional way. It won't be easy to get the entire forum to work this way, but I believe it's the right direction to go towards and, with effort, it'll make this a more enjoyable place for everyone

---

 

I completely agree with Fin. What I've been witnessing on this forum the past year (almost a year) in regard of good discussion and civilized conversations has been decreasing ever since I left forum moderating.

It might be perhaps moderators have been going easy on such useless posts mainly due to what players call censorship or suppressing their opinions, just like what happened yesterday with @hhgb. Which lead players thinking it's fine to continuously spam useless replies and topics.

 

I believe having more strict rules concerning flood or spam posts is one way to solve this issue. I know many players would object about this saying that the rules are strict enough as they are, but I disagree. Our rules are very 'free' when it comes to posts that are morally correct and do not represent hate, discrimination and other immoral qualities. What I mean, if your post falls under the society norm, the other aspects of your post (such as usefulness or how it contributes to the original discussion) are not very strict.

 

But perhaps what Hhgb said about our current set of rules regarding what is considered flood/spam/irrelevant being vague and misunderstood has some truth in it. Maybe if we clearly define what is and what is not these things it would stop players from doing so, and help moderators hide more posts that are flood or spam.

[I.Devastation 2,053]

Has no one noticed new, interesting topics being hidden at very few replies?

[robbie56 2,403]

Irrelevant and obviously nonsensical conversations should be removed and discouraged.

 

I disagree with this. Offtopic is meant for this.

[stawp_thundertime 275]

Am i the only 1 who doesn't really care about what is happening with off-topic; tighten the moderation or keep it as it is.

I was trying to come up with an intellectual anserw to all of this, but honestly it's an online forum about the same stuff any other online forum is about. Off topic discussion can be silly and well... off-topic, or it can be about a pressing issue. My problem.exe really failed when i realised that the possibilityes for any kind of any conversation i want are endless and im trying to give ducks about the off-topic section on a game about shooting futuristic tanks. Mind you, not even about the game discussion section, that i couldn't discuss with anyone, but the off-topic...

 

But gl to all the ppl trying to keep the forum alive, and all the eager players wanting changes in the forums. :)

[basenji7 1,199]

But off-topic is kinda for off-topic stuff tho... :mellow:

[lordmostafa 3,821]

 

I am not saying ban, I never even mentioned it.

My idea was more strict rules, and as Fen mentioned, to raise awareness about them and to spread them and tell those players what to and what not to post. That way we have more civilized conversations and topics.

Yes, this is a game's forum, but what does that change? It's a FORUM, it's a place for discussion to take hold, if one's post doesn't contributes to the discussion then it can't stay, it will only become an annoyance and would make it harder for people who wish to take part to find the topic they want to discuss, since it would be so far gone off-topic that it wouldn't still be the same original post.

[lordmostafa 3,821]

You're a mod, you understand better. I'm outta here

No, please. If you have more to say, please do so. That is, after all, the point of this topic.

Edited May 15, 2016 by lordmostafa

[Jwimmer 2,835]

Very interesting data.

 

I wholeheartedly agree on the fact that Tanki needs more marketing. I do not know much about World of Tanks, but I do know 2 things- 1) It has a larger playerbase than TO, and 2) I have seen countless advertisements for it (mostly on youtube, etc). On the flipside, I have yet to see an advertisement for TO on any website. It could be that Tanki is saving money to advertise for TX, but even advertising for TO today would mean more transfer players over to TX.

 

I will also look back on the reason why I began playing tanki. I was in a class, sitting at a table with 3 of my friends. 1 of them told us about TO, so we started playing against/with each other in class (when we were not working on stuff, it was an easy class). However, I am the only person out of that original 4 still playing. To extend this, TO was a game played by a larger number of people at my school (this was all last year), and to my knowledge, I am the only person still playing it regurarly.

 

Looking at WoT and my personal experience, word of mouth is an ineffective way of spreading games, while advertisements are. Unfortunately, TO is falling back to the easy route of hoping that we will spread word to our friends.

[Jwimmer 2,835]

Am i the only 1 who doesn't really care about what is happening with off-topic; tighten the moderation or keep it as it is.

I was trying to come up with an intellectual anserw to all of this, but honestly it's an online forum about the same stuff any other online forum is about. Off topic discussion can be silly and well... off-topic, or it can be about a pressing issue. My problem.exe really failed when i realised that the possibilityes for any kind of any conversation i want are endless and im trying to give ducks about the off-topic section on a game about shooting futuristic tanks. Mind you, not even about the game discussion section, that i couldn't discuss with anyone, but the off-topic...

 

But gl to all the ppl trying to keep the forum alive, and all the eager players wanting changes in the forums. :)

Sorry for the double post here.

 

This problem is more broad (in my mind) than just keeping the forum alive. It has to do with keeping the game alive. It is no big secret that, on normal days, servers are becoming less and less populous. I know that, last year, I could find plenty of games after 11 pm EST, but now, a year later, and the only games at that time are lopsided (no exaggeration here).

 

The game and the forum are pretty connected. For the number of new players coming into the forum to go up, the number of people going into the game has to go up (see my post above).

[Bydo 20,121]

i still do not agree with this post ....

 

For the small posts like lol and stuff is there not a way the computer wont allow short posts.. that it had to be over a certain amount of words or letters in the post .. this should be addressed in the   Ideas and Suggestions    ..

 

 

so the main reason i put this out is cause .

 

. this is a thread .. so each thread can be used up with short words or in long conversations.. and based on the wide arrange of ages in this forum .. we should keep a open mind and realize some of these players are under a certain age ...

 

Forums

 

have a specific set of jargon associated with them; e.g., a single conversation is called a "thread", or topic.

A discussion forum is hierarchical or tree-like in structure: a forum can contain a number of subforums, each of which may have several topics. Within a forum's topic, each new discussion started is called a thread, and can be replied to by as many people as so wish.

 

im not provoking...... im merely stating a fact...

Edited May 15, 2016 by frozen_heart

[hhgb 2,655]

I think this is the cause of the recent dislike of the forum. It's mostly the same people talking about completely generic and irrelevant stuff on pretty much every popular topic. 

It's not recent dislike, but the past 2 years at least where it has gotten bad.

 

We used to make creative and funny posts, but then moderation was upped in mid-2013 and the constant locks/deletion of those topics came in. We're too used to knowing the fate of such topics at this point to where we don't bother making them. We can only get by by looking at the few remaining long-running topics (Photo of The Day) and making slight changes to the title (Video of The Day) so they will remain open. Users are really taking advantage of this, if your topic's title contains a question it will remain open (basically all of werty's topics).

Look back at the 'golden days' of these forums, compare them to today and find what the difference is. Can't be that hard, can it? Surely the forums have gotten more active since 2012 so losing people isn't the problem.

 

Something's holding back our creative minds, and it is right in front of us. But what is it I wonder? hmmmmm.

[Sr.I3oSS 2,546]

Words... it's the weekend :l I'll read it on Monday as homework.

[Bydo 20,121]

If you were the one who created this topic, it would've been locked :D . Same logic. Complaining about present forum

 

 

It's not recent dislike, but the past 2 years at least where it has gotten bad.

 

We used to make creative and funny posts, but then moderation was upped in mid-2013 and the constant locks/deletion of those topics came in. We're too used to knowing the fate of such topics at this point to where we don't bother making them. We can only get by by looking at the few remaining long-running topics (Photo of The Day) and making slight changes to the title (Video of The Day) so they will remain open. Users are really taking advantage of this, if your topic's title contains a question it will remain open (basically all of werty's topics).

Look back at the 'golden days' of these forums, compare them to today and find what the difference is. Can't be that hard, can it? Surely the forums have gotten more active since 2012 so losing people isn't the problem.

 

Something's holding back our creative minds, and it is right in front of us. But what is it I wonder? hmmmmm.

i agree with both of u .. like i stated last night and to Cedric and admin   .. i have noticed over the past year or more that there seems to be two rules and there is not one the rules we were all are  to follow .. i find that when mods post there topics..they  can stay.. like i said yesterday about a post that was closed a year ago but its reopened and allowed to stay open.. but when players post it it was closed the same day.. so iam finding two different standards of rules which is wrong like a mod said they are just like us the players... well i do not agree .. this post and others prove my point..and i know after a mod see's this i will get another warning .. for no good reason..

 

 

i have no intentions of provoking anyone...

 

and we all agreed to leave it be ..with yesterdays post and was to wait for admins decisions on it...