Paint Separation Update

[theFiringHand 21,351]

If your words weren't condescending enough the first time round, there is no mistaking them now. I'm certainly not playing the victim here, merely stating for the record my deep dissatisfaction in tanki's methods, perceived or otherwise. So let's not paint me as something I'm not thank you and try to keep this respectful and not personal.

 

 

I didn't say you said those words. I said those were my words. But you certainly did say, "The truth is that it's safer to err towards the more expensive than the cheaper", which certainly does validate my observations somewhat. You then you go on to give your reasons why.

 

I have no idea what misinformation you think it is I'm "spreading". Maybe, to remove any confusion, you could quote the exact bits along with the context in which they're written. I believe my observations to be accurate.

 

Customer dissatisfaction is never an easy pill to swallow and I understand you being defensive but saying, "stop playing the victim", to a customer is inexcusable and does nothing for relations.

I was not being condescending. You're the one who took it that way.

 

By misinformation, I mean the following post:

 

 

 

You're easily pleased if you consider that a victory.  200 pages and all we get is a hotkey change. They say they listen and that's because it's impossible not to. Nobody says they have to act on any feedback. They act when they want to and because they want to, not because we want them to. They have too much past form and their behaviour pattern is not changing. Argue with me if you like but only actions can prove me wrong.

 

The pattern goes something like this

• They'll purposefully overprice things knowing full well that we will complain
• Buyers still buy them at their hugely inflated release prices
• Then they lower prices when the graphs and reports say it's time to do so, maximising $$$, but pretending to act in our interests.

Same goes for tweaking hulls or turrets

• Make them overpowered initially
• Buyers buy them
• Other players complain
• When the front-line buyers dry up, nerf the items saying something like, "we monitored the situation closely and listened to your feedback..."
• The front-line buyers complain they just wasted 500k crystals on item and the mods say #eula - in your faces suckers!

As I say, tanki has too much past form so none of this should come as a surprise to us anymore. It's a system that has worked so well for them over the years.

 

At least we have a scrollbar in the shop.

 

 

 

 

You statements there are implying that programmers are intentionally doing this to take advantage of player. And that is misinformation. The dev team has released many updates that have been welcomed by the community, and that players enjoy. So why take one unpopular update and extend the dissatisfaction to throw dirt on everything the team has done. It's not a fair comment.

 

I agree, there ARE things that can be improved in this update, and I'm doing my best to argue in favor of the community. But I can only do that if I'm given positive critique (as some here have provided), not statements such as "The front-line buyers complain they just wasted 500k crystals on item and the mods say #eula - in your faces suckers!"

 

He got a fully M4 Garage, it is not about he can afford them or not. He is standing up for the players who cannot buy stuffs at an exaggerated prices. And surely if these prices are just an experiment promise the players whoever have bought stuffs now.... And if you lower the prices in future, you will give compensation to them.

 

You wont do that, instead you'll blame someone for spreading misleading information who is actually doing your job (i.e stand up for the players  of the community).

 

I am not being disrespectful at all, but it is a shame to see @AbsoluteZero's work going in vain. You won't implement his ideas calling him arrogant, If you say he's arrogant then be it.... But his ideas are most liked topics on the forum. Does it make every liker an arrogant person too? Seems like it, as you don't implement them on the basis of arrogance.

I never called him "arrogant". I appreciate fair criticism. What I don't appreciate is allegations that the team is doing something to take advantage of players, because it flies in the face of everything we've been trying to do as a team.

 

I'm working hard to try to bring your feedback into the game. Please understand that.

[Nikolai_Makarov 1]

My opinion about the last update.

This update seems to be extremely dissapointing for non buyers. Here are the reasons:

             - First is the separation ideea (another upgradable iteam in the garage). The price is according to the rank and no to the iteam.

             - The paints became a usefull tool to make up the price for kits. As you can see at all kits , the paint is the element that makes the price of the kit. If i buy the hull and the turret in separate , and if i buy a kit, I pay the same price. Without it's defensive properties , may I know how you justify a price of 300k for a paint? Doesn't matter if you say  at a kit's price 75% off, if you put a 300k paint ! Almost all the kits have very expensive paints. This makes any .

            - If there are included protections instead of paints in the kits sections all would be fine.

            - The gold boxes seems to become very rare even at high ranks. Too many 12+ players 30+mins battles without gb.

You have to read this word , people are leaving. If you continue this way , tanki will become history

[Pizzarrific 191]

All of you have been taken-in by the argument so much, you've actually forgotten what we're arguing about. It's just a paint seperation update. Lets not make a big deal out of nothing. In a way, I could agree. Fine, they've messed up, but why generalise things? One slip-up and you can't go on blaming everything the Dev's have done. You have to admit, they've put up a few good updates. With good, comes bad, you can't always expect Pizza for dinner.

     The common sequence of events following an argument is this:

1. Misunderstanding happens

2. People show their opinions formally

3. Someone decides to bring the past back

4. People go on finding things in the past that aren't even relevant, but fueling their own anger.

 

Lets not do this please. If you have any suggestions, then reply.

[Nikolai_Makarov 1]

All of you have been taken-in by the argument so much, you've actually forgotten what we're arguing about. It's just a paint seperation update. Lets not make a big deal out of nothing. In a way, I could agree. Fine, they've messed up, but why generalise things? One slip-up and you can't go on blaming everything the Dev's have done. You have to admit, they've put up a few good updates. With good, comes bad, you can't always expect Pizza for dinner.

     The common sequence of events following an argument is this:

1. Misunderstanding happens

2. People show their opinions formally

3. Someone decides to bring the past back

4. People go on finding things in the past that aren't even relevant, but fueling their own anger.

 

Lets not do this please. If you have any suggestions, then reply.

ok. I agree, But if there was only a paint separation, and IF the protections of the paint is the element that makes the difference, can you tell me why , the protections module costs around 100k and the grafic art costs 300k?  It was fair to transfer the price of paint to the protection module , and the visual art to cost around 5k- 10K at most .

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

He got a fully M4 Garage, it is not about he can afford them or not. He is standing up for the players who cannot buy stuffs at an exaggerated prices.

Exactly. I can afford to buy and as you say, all my hulls and turrets are m4 and I have a bunch of legacy modules that are all fully upgraded too with paints coming out my ears! I'm glad you noticed this because the CM didn't.

 

You wont do that, instead you'll blame someone for spreading misleading information who is actually doing your job (i.e stand up for the players  of the community).

Except it wasn't misleading. You're right, I am sticking up for community and the game because I see them being slowly strangled and I don't see why I should let them go down without a fight.  The time for sugarcoating words has long gone and I don't see why I should have to dance around what it is we want to say, prefacing any criticism with an obligatory nice comment first, then apologising for any critical remarks after as we back out of the door cowering and cringing with tails between our legs.

Edited July 26, 2016 by AbsoluteZero

[asdasemm 925]

Tanki needs an improvement

i.e., Remove this update

[SpeedyRailgun 183]

Erm!! Read the post properly before you go accusing people of faking.

 

Read it again,

 

Nearly 44% would only pay up to 10k crystals

Just over 81% would pay up to 120k

Just under 92% would pay up to 250k

 

Notice the words “up to”

Or in other words... 44% would be willing to part with an amount of crystals of 0 up to 10k for paint.

Or, 81% would be willing to part with an amount of crystals of 0 up to 120k for paint.

 

Think for a while before you post.

Well i think before i post.

if there is 0-10 000 users and 0-120 000 users, why da heck he counts them in?

if he makes hes results like that, this is easier way to do it.

100% would pay up to 1.000.000.000 for paint.

 

If results would be like this, they are worthless.

Maybe all of those users will only pay 1.000 for paint who has answered up to 250.000

[SpeedyRailgun 183]

Tanki needs an improvement

i.e., Remove this update

reason for removing?

[theFiringHand 21,351]

My opinion about the last update.

This update seems to be extremely dissapointing for non buyers. Here are the reasons:

             - First is the separation ideea (another upgradable iteam in the garage). The price is according to the rank and no to the iteam.

             - The paints became a usefull tool to make up the price for kits. As you can see at all kits , the paint is the element that makes the price of the kit. If i buy the hull and the turret in separate , and if i buy a kit, I pay the same price. Without it's defensive properties , may I know how you justify a price of 300k for a paint? Doesn't matter if you say  at a kit's price 75% off, if you put a 300k paint ! Almost all the kits have very expensive paints. This makes any .

            - If there are included protections instead of paints in the kits sections all would be fine.

            - The gold boxes seems to become very rare even at high ranks. Too many 12+ players 30+mins battles without gb.

You have to read this word , people are leaving. If you continue this way , tanki will become history

As has already been said before, the issue with the kits is going to be resolved in the next batch of kits.

 

All of you have been taken-in by the argument so much, you've actually forgotten what we're arguing about. It's just a paint seperation update. Lets not make a big deal out of nothing. In a way, I could agree. Fine, they've messed up, but why generalise things? One slip-up and you can't go on blaming everything the Dev's have done. You have to admit, they've put up a few good updates. With good, comes bad, you can't always expect Pizza for dinner.

     The common sequence of events following an argument is this:

1. Misunderstanding happens

2. People show their opinions formally

3. Someone decides to bring the past back

4. People go on finding things in the past that aren't even relevant, but fueling their own anger.

 

Lets not do this please. If you have any suggestions, then reply.

Thanks for bringing this up. I appreciate it.

 

Exactly. I can afford to buy and as you say, all my hulls and turrets are m4 and I have a bunch of legacy modules that are all fully upgraded too with paints coming out my ears! I'm glad you noticed this because the CM didn't.

 

Except it wasn't misleading. You're right, I am sticking up for community and the game because I see them being slowly strangled and I don't see why I should let them go down without a fight.  The time for sugarcoating words has long gone and I don't see why I should have to dance around what it is we want to say, prefacing any criticism with an obligatory nice comment first, then apologising for any critical remarks after as we back out of the door cowering and cringing with tails between our legs.

What you have in your garage is none of my business. Whether your garage is empty or full, you have every right to put forward your argument. And you have every right to stand up for the community.

 

What you seem to be forgetting is that that's exactly what I'm also trying to do. I am also trying to push the community's interests with the developers. But I don't go around accusing the developers of trying to cheat the players. That is an unfair comment, and it has no place in this discussion. That is my only quarrel with your post.

 

It's not about sugar-coating things. It's about being capable of building a fair argument without flinging around accusations and allegations. That is the way forward. Animosity has no place here.

[asdasemm 925]

.

Edited July 26, 2016 by asdasemm

[zen631 8]

what is the timeline for tanki to take feedback....

just let us know when the paint separation would be rolled back...its not helping the players

[theFiringHand 21,351]

what is the timeline for tanki to take feedback....

just let us know when the paint separation would be rolled back...its not helping the players

To be completely honest, I doubt the feature will be rolled back. There are redeemable qualities in it that we believe should stay in the game, for example the fact that you can have your preferred protections in your tank, and ALSO have your preferred color/texture. This opens up more avenues for customization. I personally am HOPING (though there's no word on this yet) that as a result of this feature, players will eventually be given the opportunity to come up with their own paints, which would be an awesome feature for clans and teams.

 

Yes, some things could have been done MUCH better, and that's what we're working on fixing. If you've been following the issue closely, you'll have noticed that a few things have been changed already, or are in the process of being fixed shortly.

 

I know I have no right to ask you to be patient, but unfortunately certain things take time to work out. This isn't an on/off switch. There are numerous people (including the person referred to as "the community") involved, all of whom have their vision for the game, and whose point of view makes sense (at least in part). Reconciling all those points of view is a downright Herculean task.

 

Your perspective shows you the forum side of things. But it goes deeper than that. Honestly though, I'm trying my best, and I apologize if it's not bringing results as quickly as you want it to.

[oOo.Aryan.oOo 968]

To be completely honest, I doubt the feature will be rolled back. There are redeemable qualities in it that we believe should stay in the game, for example the fact that you can have your preferred protections in your tank, and ALSO have your preferred color/texture. This opens up more avenues for customization. I personally am HOPING (though there's no word on this yet) that as a result of this feature, players will eventually be given the opportunity to come up with their own paints, which would be an awesome feature for clans and teams.

 

Yes, some things could have been done MUCH better, and that's what we're working on fixing. If you've been following the issue closely, you'll have noticed that a few things have been changed already, or are in the process of being fixed shortly.

 

I know I have no right to ask you to be patient, but unfortunately certain things take time to work out. This isn't an on/off switch. There are numerous people (including the person referred to as "the community") involved, all of whom have their vision for the game, and whose point of view makes sense (at least in part). Reconciling all those points of view is a downright Herculean task.

 

Your perspective shows you the forum side of things. But it goes deeper than that. Honestly though, I'm trying my best, and I apologize if it's not bringing results as quickly as you want it to.

How to be an tester

[oOo.Aryan.oOo 968]

Cedric please check your pm

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

I was not being condescending. You're the one who took it that way.

 

By misinformation, I mean the following post:

I took it that way because it was condescending to me.

 

My whole post? I asked you to be specific. Are seriously trying to tell me that all of it was misinformation?

Well let me break it down.  Firstly, I was responding to and sharing my observations primarily with a player.

 

They say they listen and that's because it's impossible not to. Nobody says they have to act on any feedback. They act when they want to and because they want to, not because we want them to. They have too much past form and their behaviour pattern is not changing. Argue with me if you like but only actions can prove me wrong.

This is not really a big deviation to what I_F said a day later.  Notice the patronisation and condescending remarks. You can't have it both ways. How do you expect us players to stay civil and respectful when even the top staff members can't do it?

 

Tanki Online (Alternativa Platform) is a company, not your own personal playground. As a company, it has the complete authorization to do whatever is needed to proceed further with marketing plans, financial plans and budgets, etc.. Meanwhile, as a company, it is not forced to listen to its costumers, it is "allowed" to, at its own decision.

So, in short, Alternativa Platform may listen to its users, but it is not forced to do. All what Devs do follows specific marketing and economical plans, but in case there is some space left for users-suggested ideas then these may be considered — this is all what you must understand, nothing more, nothing less.

 

You seem to be lacking basic knowledge of marketing and companies' management, because ALL THE COMPANIES on this planet must earn money to survive and they are not forced to listen to their costumers, they are "allowed" to do so. Meanwhile, ALL THE COMPANIES on this planet must follow marketing and financial plans — working for moneys.

Then regarding my observations, I say, "The pattern goes something like this". Notice the words 'pattern' & 'something'. I didn't say it goes 'exactly' like this and more importantly, I didn't give a reason why! 

 

Now because you're can't be specific, or break down anything I wrote point-by-point, I can only conclude that you haven't the time, cannot be bothered or you're unable to. But going back to your original reply, your last paragraph did give my observations some validity.

 

 

You statements there are implying that programmers are intentionally doing this to take advantage of player. And that is misinformation. The dev team has released many updates that have been welcomed by the community, and that players enjoy. So why take one unpopular update and extend the dissatisfaction to throw dirt on everything the team has done. It's not a fair comment.

No, I'm not implying that at all. I'm stating that tanki is not being fair to players - there is a world of difference. Please show me where I have thrown dirt on everything? I have not done this and for you to accuse this of me is wholly unfair. True, I might throw around the odd accusation here and there, but like others here, I'm just a customer on the outside not privy to the information you have access to. You can either correct me or add to my knowledge but what's your excuse for throwing that accusation at me?

 

 

I agree, there ARE things that can be improved in this update, and I'm doing my best to argue in favor of the community. But I can only do that if I'm given positive critique (as some here have provided), not statements such as "The front-line buyers complain they just wasted 500k crystals on item and the mods say #eula - in your faces suckers!"

Have you seen my suggestions for this update in this and previous topics? Have you seen how much work I've put into them? I have given extensive examples of what is wrong (in my opinion) and provided detailed ideas and solutions of what could be done to improve it, each receiving many likes from readers here but hardly ever if at all getting any acknowledgement from tanki. Do I need to dig them out? Frankly, I gone past the stage of wanting any acknowledgement long ago, this is not about me, it's about the game and community.

 

And regarding my eula comments. While slightly sarcastic, they are entirely based in fact. It has always been quoted as the last line of defense when players complain. Don't try and say it's never been used that way. If you don't want players to say such things, don't use it as an excuse. It was a mod who first brought the eula up in this topic. "In your face suckers", is what I read every time it is quoted. In fact, I predicted it would be used here before it was.

 

As far as I know, the EULA clearly states that administrators reserve the right to change anything in the game without prior notice or explanation, so you spend your money on the game completely at your own risk. So yeah, nothing to complain about here.

 

What I don't appreciate is allegations that the team is doing something to take advantage of players, because it flies in the face of everything we've been trying to do as a team.

I never said this? I used the word 'unfair' many times.

 

What you have in your garage is none of my business. Whether your garage is empty or full, you have every right to put forward your argument. And you have every right to stand up for the community.

 

What you seem to be forgetting is that that's exactly what I'm also trying to do. I am also trying to push the community's interests with the developers. But I don't go around accusing the developers of trying to cheat the players. That is an unfair comment, and it has no place in this discussion. That is my only quarrel with your post.

 

It's not about sugar-coating things. It's about being capable of building a fair argument without flinging around accusations and allegations. That is the way forward.

More invention. Please quote where I accused the devs of "trying to cheat players". 

 

Animosity has no place here.

Really?

 

 

[Taco 2,820]

That moment when players ask the devs if they're ok because they drank too much vodka

 

Devs be like

 

https://youtu.be/xiH1MV6JIYo?t=3m37s

Edited July 26, 2016 by Taco

[theFiringHand 21,351]

 

Animosity has no place here.

 

Really?

 

Yes, really. From either side. And if myself or my staff have sounded aggressive, I do apologize.

 

Also, I've made my position and intentions clear. You have a right to your opinion, but I won't continue the discussion because I've said what I needed to say in more than one way. Those who are ready to listen should have understood by now that i'm trying my best to work in the community's best interests, and that the devs aren't some monster who's intentionally being unfair (to use your word) towards player. If there has been any unfairness, it was unintentional. Devs want to improve the game, not ruin it. Unfortunately, they are not perfect, so in trying to fix things, they sometimes break others. That said, they're doing their best to find the right balance.

[theFiringHand 21,351]

The whole of that post contradicts the first sentence....

 

You've commented on the poll thread, had you been paying attention you'd know there's options to choose from a range of answers, including whether you'd pay nothing for paints(which was 11% BTW). It then makes sense to break down the results and offer them as incremental accumulated percentages as it's less hassle than being presented with a wall of text or boring stats. If anyone wants to view the full poll results, then they can go and have a look at it to make their own conclusions.

 

You mention the results are worthless, I'd say the finding out that 92% of polled Tankers would not pay over 250k for paints would be useful information. Or 44% think that paints are now so pointless that they're barely worth 10k crystals. Or paints that cost hundreds in real money appeal to only 8% of users.

 

If you want to be such a pedant, feel free to go and have a look at the poll and present the statistics how you think they should be presented, instead of posting critique that makes very little sense.

Guys, c'mon, chill.

 

It's a poll. Yes it's representative of the general sentiment of the forum. No it cannot be taken as an official statistic, because in order for it to qualify as such, it would have to fulfill a whole list of criteria that Rev. Father Saviour Chircop tried to hammer into my brain many years ago during Research Methods lectures, and failed miserably (and just thinking about them has practically given me a headache lol).

 

Look, I get it, there are things you don't like about this update. This poll is another way of saying it. Please, stop arguing and stay focused, maybe we can sort this stuff out, ok?

[deadmanrising 715]

I've already quit the game, and good riddance, its costing me more pennies and time by the mintue

[itineris 8]

...

[theFiringHand 21,351]

The biggest improvement the devs could make in this game would be the implementation of Kick2 "anti-mult" system. I've said it many times, this system would improve game-play and put to bed doubts about who's side the powers that be in this game are on....cheats or fair players.

Actually, DM Tournaments will partially solve the issue of mults, because participants will be picked randomly.

[theFiringHand 21,351]

Didn't even know these existed, in that case it might be worth raising the awareness of them and looking into making them into team tournaments too. Whether that's workable or not is another matter..

More news on those VERY soon  :)

[hamzahwin 32]

More news on those VERY soon  :)

hello cedric :)

 

I want to ask you If I make a new account and got a rank that I can buy hornet and railgun m2 and I want to join xp/bp here I need 20% protection from railgun and there is no protection like this :)

 

good luck :)

[Quora 125]

Actually, DM Tournaments will partially solve the issue of mults, because participants will be picked randomly.

DM tournaments, as the name suggests DM(Deathmatch). i fail to understand how does that solve the issue of mults in CTF,CP mode?!

[Bydo 20,121]

I hope someone can change this record soon... it's starting to get boring listening to it...over and over again

 

Just end this madness and give us the answer's we seek..