Declined Better roof hitboxes

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

I think we should call them bevels

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

yeah, for Magnum turrets these cubic roof hitboxes are truly annoying.

But I guess after the magnum release, the non magnum players love those roof hitboxes more then ever now :p

 

still I'd love to see them changed from the normal gameplay point of view

 

What is the effect on parcour?

[DageLV 940]

What is the effect on parcour?

Its easier to get on roofs? (Sometimes harder because you can fall over roofs) so it may get new players into parkour.

And you are not flying in mid air.

[SwiftSmoky 8,445]

What is the effect on parkour?

• It will require smaller jumps to get on houses, making parkour easier which is good for beginners
• Staying on the roof after landing will become harder because of the slope, and flipped tanks will slide down sometimes so their friend might not be able to shoot them to flip them back in time
• The sloped roofs will be like ramps that can be used for jumping between roofs easily and to make many more tricks that involve the special roof shapes
• A single player will be able to reach almost every single place in any map with OMP (One Man Parkour), as well as making the "twisted Edge Jump" skill more useful (right now there is only 1 spot in the whole game where it can be used)
• A few things that are easy now will become harder (for example having tanks with hammer to shoot a jumper that reaches the roof to redirect him to another roof without landing on the first roof is gonna require another player for the shooters to lean on to not aim down, or will require them to swing on the roof to shoot almost straight don and bounce their bullets off of it into the jumper)
• Roofs will become good spots for positioning shooters that have to shoot at an angle of ~45º (both up and down) which can be useful in many tricks
• In maps with many close buildings (such as Dusseldorf) it will be possible to jump between almost all buildings even without space mode, making roofs racing more fun and challenging when playing with normal gravity, but in space mode roofs racing will become much easier and boring
• Creates a good reason to remove the kill zone in normal battles from the roofs of some buildings that will become easily accessible for everyone, which will add back a nice little element of parkour–fighting

I think I covered pretty much everything  :)

[SwiftSmoky 8,445]

Just for the curious people out here (and to kill time cause I'm bored), here's the programmatic perspective on the matter:

 

Will detailed collision affect FPS / game performance?

Shortly, not much.

More in detail:

Making more detailed collision means that the physics engine of the game will have to loop through more surface pieces (roofs will be made out of a few rectangles and triangles instead of a single rectangle) and your computer will have to perform collision checks for each one of them. It might sound like a big deal for maps like Dusseldorf that have tons of houses with fancy roofs in them, but there is a simple and well known technique of splitting the map into chunks so the game will only have to check for collision with what's in the chunk the player is in (or a few more chunks if the player stands at the border between chunks), using this technique means the game doesn't "think" about what's too far from the player so making more detailed collision will have much smaller effect on the game's performance. Also, the same concept could be applied to very complex objects to simplify the collision checks even more - make all the complex objects (that could be made out of hundreds of triangles) have a hitbox (cuboid) that the game will check collision with it instead of the object itself, and then only if it finds out that the player is inside that hitbox then it will check all the triangles of the detailed object. That way the game can completely ignore the complexity of all objects except the ones the player is touching or almost touching. I doubt tanki uses or even needs this technique because they don't have objects with such complex collision anyway, they use mostly simple flat "props" without any structure beyond completely flat surfaces (with the exception of pipes, but they aren't complex either), but I'm mentioning this just to make it clear that complex hitboxes are very much not a big deal for your FPS.

 

Will it slow down the loading of maps?

Shortly: just a few milliseconds, you won't mind it.

More in detail:

The maps are stored as XML (text) files in your cache, which means you don't have to download them from the server every time so we can just ignore the increase in file size. The loading of the map itself won't change much since it is just 3 numbers per triangle (corner coordinates) that the game has to remember, which is nothing compared to loading all the textures which is what takes most of the time when loading the map.

 

Will it increase lag?

Shortly: nope.

More in detail:

Two things can increase lag: increasing the traffic (amount of data constantly sent to and from the server), and increasing the server load (the work the game servers have to do).

The game has to send larger files to players who download maps, but since most players only download each map once, and most players in the game are long time players that already have these maps downloaded, the server will only have to occasionally send these maps to new players or ones that just cleared their cache, which means it's not a thing that is gonna keep happening constantly on such a scale that could have a meaningful effect on the server load.

But you can completely ignore the above paragraph because most maps don't even have enough houses to make a significant difference in the file size.

 

The game had roofs with detailed collision many years ago, why not anymore?

Because it simplifies the process of creating models and decreases the chance of prop design errors. It does count as optimization because it positively affects game performance and traffic, but on such a small scale that it's hard to believe performance has anything to do with the houses not having detailed collision. They simply didn't care about the places they didn't expect players to go, and apparently didn't expect it to block shots that should have hit the target otherwise, so they decided to save some time and effort on the design of the houses.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

so to me it sounds that there are more positive effects then negative ones

[DageLV 940]

so to me it sounds that there are more positive effects then negative ones

Which are the negative effects? :D

[DageLV 940]

LOL it's a game made by the same developers. It's not like I'm drawing away their player base.dn't know.

[DageLV 940]

LOL it's a game made by the same developers. It's not like I'm drawing away their player base.

no. U are drawing away TO player base. TO and TX are made by different developers.

[N221 597]

no. U are drawing away TO player base. TO and TX are made by different developers.

 

Different developers, are you sure? Sequel means carried on right, so why would DIFFERENT developers create a similar game, wouldnt that be classed as copyright?

[Maf 32,333]

 Different developers, are you sure? Sequel means carried on right, so why would DIFFERENT developers create a similar game, wouldnt that be classed as copyright?

Don't try to argue with dage. It only results in 10 pages of him repeating the same thing over and over while people with actual logic and rationality waste their time on trying to convince him otherwise  :)

[N221 597]

Don't try to argue with dage. It only results in 10 pages of him repeating the same thing over and over while people with actual logic and rationality waste their time on trying to convince him otherwise  :)

ok, i will use that advice in the future xd

[DageLV 940]

Different developers, are you sure? Sequel means carried on right, so why would DIFFERENT developers create a similar game, wouldnt that be classed as copyright?

Is it from wikipedia? Anyone can post article there and say whatever they want. Read what devs say, read what artcore from tx says..

[SwiftSmoky 8,445]

Different developers, are you sure? Sequel means carried on right, so why would DIFFERENT developers create a similar game, wouldnt that be classed as copyright?

Both games belong to the same company, so whether it is different developers or not - copyright won't be a problem for them.

 

btw, in the livestream Hazel said that it is challenging to develop two similar games and trying to make them different... so yeah same developers (or at least one common dev to both games)

 

Dage complains about drawing away players from TO to TX not because of the company's income but cause it's a problem for TO players if the player base shrinks (together with the amount of battles) or even worse - the game closes due to lack of players.

 

Though I'm sure no one is gonna quit TO and start playing TX just because of detailed roofs collision.

 

 

I hope this brings the logic back to this conversation...

[Hazuma1 17]

Is it from wikipedia? Anyone can post article there and say whatever they want. Read what devs say, read what artcore from tx says..

You need some sleep, bro.

[DageLV 940]

You need some sleep, bro.

I do get some sleep.

In our school if you take information from wiki your work is not counted and you get "nv" which means 0 in 1-10 scale.

Wikipedia is good source of information but its not always correct.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Don't try to argue with dage. It only results in 10 pages of him repeating the same thing over and over while people with actual logic and rationality waste their time on trying to convince him otherwise  :)

I think he just heard that :ph34r:

[Boeing_787 1,455]

I do get some sleep.

In our school if you take information from wiki your work is not counted and you get "nv" which means 0 in 1-10 scale.

Wikipedia is good source of information but its not always correct.

tl;dr Wikipedia's "free for all" nature does not negatively affect it's accuracy other than to a negligible extent.

 

The very fact that anyone can edit Wikipedia makes it more accurate. This is because errors quickly get corrected by Wikipedians as soon as they slip in. If you are unsure about something, you can always look at the sources listed in the bottom of the article.

 

Also, the characteristics of Wikipedia are what caused it to have articles on so many different topics, perhaps more than any other encyclopedia. Articles are also created quickly after events occur.

 

If your school does not accept your paper if you reference Wikipedia, just copy some of the sources at the end of the Wikipedia article. :)

[Boeing_787 1,455]

That was horribly off topic... mods will probably start hiding posts soon lol

[idiboy 41]

I think you probably know, roofs that are in the shape of a triangle (most of the bulidings) you stay in air, you don't even touch it, because the 'solid' part that is programmed is the air place, not the actual roof.
Also some tanks such as dictator, when you hop on it, your tank bumps into the air, not letting you get on top of it. Reworking this might not be a big problem, since it's a really bad thing.

How it works


How it should work

 

[Maf 32,333]

 

Topic merged

[Maf 32,333]

Declined

 

In my opinion the idea is still very much valid, but Hazel recently said in an identical topic on the RU forum that fixing this is "pointless".

[Gubitnik 401]

so u have cube houses and completely precise pipes, house with 2 more parts would cause lag and pipes which have 100 edges dont?

[andrisrv 96]

Declined

 

In my opinion the idea is still very much valid, but Hazel recently said in an identical topic on the RU forum that fixing this is "pointless".

Has he red page 1-4 of this page to say its pointless?

[Maf 32,333]

Has he red page 1-4 of this page to say its pointless?

I don't know what he did or did not read, but that's the lead developer's opinion on this matter.