Episode 108 of the V-LOG is here

[TTK_229 1,080]

Please do not carry out with this update.

Please.

*sigh*

 

How would I improve game balance? I'm glad you asked :P

All the m0s are fine, maybe just improve dictator's health to 125.

 

M1s are good too, maybe make shaft unlock at wo1 and decrease dictator's health by 5. Also, twins needs to be slightly nerfed.

 

First of all, Noobsmoke m2 needs to be needed a LOT, and unlock earlier. Freeze m2 and isida m2 need a buff. Thunder m2 does, too. Dictator, Hunter, and Mammoth need slight armour buffs.

 

Viking m3 needs a large armour buff, perhaps to 265. Hunter should have 255 health and unlock a bit earlier. So should dictator and mammoth. Thunder m3 needs a buff, isida m3 should unlock 1 or 2 ranks later, Vulcan, Rico, Firebird, and Smoky need a slight nerf. Freeze, as always, needs higher DPS.

 

I hope you enjoyed this wall of text. If you read all of this, you deserve coke!

Edited October 5, 2016 by TTK_229

[Bluebird13 95]

Please do not carry out with this update.

Please.

*sigh*

 

How would I improve game balance? I'm glad you asked :P

All the m0s are fine, maybe just improve dictator's health to 125.

 

M1s are good too, maybe make shaft unlock at wo1 and decrease dictator's health by 5. Also, twins needs to be slightly nerfed.

 

First of all, Noobsmoke m2 needs to be needed a LOT, and unlock earlier. Freeze m2 and isida m2 need a buff. Thunder m2 does, too. Dictator, Hunter, and Mammoth need slight armour buffs.

 

Viking m3 needs a large armour buff, perhaps to 265. Hunter should have 255 health and unlock a bit earlier. So should dictator and mammoth. Thunder m3 needs a buff, isida m3 should unlock 1 or 2 ranks later, Vulcan, Rico, Firebird, and Smoky need a slight nerf. Freeze, as always, needs higher DPS.

 

I hope you enjoyed this wall of text. If you read all of this, you deserve coke!

There definitely needs to be some changes.

 

---

 

I can acknowledge that hull categories could be more distinct, but if the changes are going to be this drastic, then, as everyone else has said, the game will be a lot less diverse. Mammoth will be overlooked next to Titan, and Hornet overlooked next to Wasp, especially with prices at M3. The medium class hulls aren't different enough (besides looks).

 

Isida probably should be nerfed, but not to 10% self-healing; that's too low. If this is not changed (it should be), then maybe don't nerf the healing.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Bluebird13

[Ninja 10,468]

There are 5 vlog codes, right?

[Classy_Dude 126]

http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=337548&do=findComment&comment=5794507

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Not sure why anyone would buy an M3 Hornet after the re-balance. Slower than Wasp, same armor and more expensive. Makes no sense.

 

I have M3 Hornet, M3 Viking, M3 Isida and M2 Smoky (was looking forward to ranking and upgrading. But now ... :blink:  )

 

If I wanted a Hunter I would have bought a Hunter.

And now I might as well buy Thunder M3 since at least it has splash damage. Smoky's "new" critical is pathetic. A 25% chance to get a 9% increase in damage. Wow :rolleyes:

agreed on everything; but I like to add something to Smoky.

Smoky's new critical damage is a long range critical damage; as it can deal the amount of "close range damage" on infinite range - and this with 20% chance. On long range smoky deals a damage of about 50 hp; while the niew critical damage can inflict 500+ hp with a 20% chance (once all 7 seconds).

It makes a noticeable change in the DPM-over-range (damage per minute) chart.

[Reaper.Prime 9]

agreed on everything; but I like to add something to Smoky.

Smoky's new critical damage is a long range critical damage; as it can deal the amount of "close range damage" on infinite range - and this with 20% chance. On long range smoky deals a damage of about 50 hp; while the niew critical damage can inflict 500+ hp with a 20% chance (once all 7 seconds).

It makes a noticeable change in the DPM-over-range (damage per minute) chart.

How did you arrive at the claim that smoky's critical damage range is infinite ? I don't see anything from the articles on the update. And I doubt they will treat critical hit range differently from that of normal hit. Overall, from what I understand, smoky's DPM is reduced and mid-to-long range damage is also reduced.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

How did you arrive at the claim that smoky's critical damage range is infinite ? I don't see anything from the articles on the update. And I doubt they will treat critical hit range differently from that of normal hit. Overall, from what I understand, smoky's DPM is reduced and mid-to-long range damage is also reduced.

derived from the description in the wiki. It does not state, that the damage of critical hits is influenced by range. Besides it is the only logical thing.. I mean.. do you really think that Tanki gives a +9% damage by a 20% chance? This translates into an averade damage increase of aprox. +2%.. which is not even recogniseable. Edit: But I asked that question a few posts below to have it clearified.

I truely understand it in the way, that the critical damage is now not anymore reduced by range. I am not 100% sure if it reaches longer then the min.damage range of ~130 meters, but it would make sense if it does.

 

About the overall DPM reduction: I have not compared old smoky to new smoky; I just plotted some graphs that show me the average DPM of most new turrets compared to each other on the Y-axis and given different ranges on the X-axis.

I have not yet made those graphs official, as in my optinion _DPM_alone_ is a misleading value.

 

 

A very important (and maybe more important) information is the time-to-kill (TTK)... meaning the time ot takes to take down a certain hull with a certain weapon.

 

Example:

1) a DP Thunder has more DPM then a DP Railgun. But while a DP Thunder can not one-shot a Hornet, a DP Railgun can.

So the TTK (time to kill) for the DP Thunder is about 2.5seconds (shot-reload-shot) while the TTK for DP Rail is 1,1 seconds (precharge-shot).

2) Some turrets (like Rico, Firebird) have damage bursts in which they deal serious damage - followed by a reload period. So while the Thunder DPM is about 2x as high as Rico's DPM, a Thunder takes 5.13 sec to kill a hornet; while the Rico takes only 2,73 seconds (at a range of below 46 meters). No doubt who will stand tall in a 1-1 showoff if they meet in an open midfield.

3) Even a Smoky kills a Hornet within 4,5 seconds (without critical hits!!), while a Thunder takes 5,13 seconds at their max damage ranges (below 65 meters).

4) Rico's DPM is waaaayy lower then Freeze's DPM.. but a Rico can kill a Hornet faster then a Frezee can - and it has some range reserve and rapid impacting shells too.

 

Also the time in cover is important.. a Vulcan deals more DPM then a Thunder; but the Thunder can pop out from it's cover, shot, and hide again (well, a fast M3 hull can). So most likely the thunder will survive longer using the same hull then a Viking.. and therefore his turret will have more "active time" on the battle field; resulting in a larger impact on the enemies health.

The real DPM dealt on the field is massively different from the DPM calculated based on the stats... and so the graphs alone are misleading.

 

 

DPM counts in CP games; and in other gamemodes if you are a pure damage dealing player that covers the midfield. In most other situations the TTK is more important - IMHO.

Edited October 5, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[Phoenix.Rising 2,519]

Isida is a staple in team battles, the % of self heal may be lowered, but it helps to keep the team alive. Hopefully, numbers would not be reduced drastically.

IMO, it's a okay update because hopefully it encourages helping the team members by healing them, more than they fight others in team games. This enables the team to concentrate on the battle.

[theFiringHand 21,351]

Isida is a staple in team battles, the % of self heal may be lowered, but it helps to keep the team alive. Hopefully, numbers would not be reduced drastically.

IMO, it's a okay update because hopefully it encourages helping the team members by healing them, more than they fight others in team games. This enables the team to concentrate on the battle.

I was thinking the same. The update seems like it's forcing Isida into more of a support role, rather than an offense/defense role. Of course, I stand corrected.

[Cyborg 3,189]

I was thinking the same. The update seems like it's forcing Isida into more of a support role, rather than an offense/defense role. Of course, I stand corrected.

The popularity would go a lot down IMO. Many used Isida just for DM's due to the nice self heal.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Offical answer (by tanki) highly requested:

 

The now Smoky stats state a critical damage that is less then +10% stronger then normal damage.. and the chance that this critical is inflicted is 20%. So.. does this mean

1) the averade damage of smoky is increased by 2% by its criticals? Thats too low to be even worth the effect...

2) or is it in a way, that the critical damage does not gets less with range, and so the critical damage is a real suprise thing on longer ranges? If yes, is there a range limit to critical damage?

Edited October 5, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

The popularity would go a lot down IMO. Many used Isida just for DM's due to the nice self heal.

yes, the turret would be dead in DM.

In team battles it will prevail, but it will die faster (today an healing isida could pop out behind its cover and attack an incoming attacker short before he died completely. This way it could top up it's health with each attacker a little bit.. which was very, very important as most attackers attack the Isidas first (check K/D rates of isida players in team battles..).

[Cyborg 3,189]

yes, the turret would be dead in DM.

In team battles it will prevail, but it will die faster (today an healing isida could pop out behind its cover and attack an incoming attacker short before he died completely. This way it could top up it's health with each attacker a little bit.. which was very, very important as most attackers attack the Isidas first (check K/D rates of isida players in team battles..).

I personally think that Isida  now even on drugs, would be a headache for the team unless it just camps and heals. It lost it's freedom to move around and perform whatever role it wants to. Still, its just what I think :) And I know the developers know more than me in this matter.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Cyborg

[Tofu 6,773]

No I meant about whether the sales would be before or after the rebalance. I also told you to try and make it BEFORE so that the ranks below Marshal which previously used to be able to buy M3 equipment, have at least SOME benefit from this rebalance

I was supposed to get an answer to this by Monday

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

I was supposed to get an answer to this by Monday

Well, each year has about 52..53 Mondays. So technically you still could be answerwed in time :)

[Tofu 6,773]

Well, each year has about 52..53 Mondays. So technically you still could be answerwed in time :)

._.

[theFiringHand 21,351]

The popularity would go a lot down IMO. Many used Isida just for DM's due to the nice self heal.

But that's the thing. Isida was never meant to be that kind of turret. Isida is meant as a supportive turret. Just because it's super popular in DM, doesn't mean the balance is good. It's precisely because of the imbalance that Isida is finding itself in DM battles, when it's place isn't there.

 

Offical answer (by tanki) highly requested:

 

The now Smoky stats state a critical damage that is less then +10% stronger then normal damage.. and the chance that this critical is inflicted is 20%. So.. does this mean

1) the averade damage of smoky is increased by 2% by its criticals? Thats too low to be even worth the effect...

2) or is it in a way, that the critical damage does not gets less with range, and so the critical damage is a real suprise thing on longer ranges? If yes, is there a range limit to critical damage?

Interesting question. I'll ask and try to get an official answer.

[theFiringHand 21,351]

I was supposed to get an answer to this by Monday

They still need to decide on it. Sorry. I'll give an answer as soon as I have one.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Interesting question. I'll ask and try to get an official answer.

thanks ;)

 

 

But that's the thing. Isida was never meant to be that kind of turret. Isida is meant as a supportive turret. Just because it's super popular in DM, doesn't mean the balance is good. It's precisely because of the imbalance that Isida is finding itself in DM battles, when it's place isn't there.

But the inbalance of Isidas in DM does only occure because of it's selfhealing on supplies (DoublePower = the Isida can heal with 100% of the damagte that it deals = it does not loose health on close range).

 

If selfhealing would not be doubled by the DoublePower supply, then Isida would be balanced as it is today.

IMHO this would be the far better balance adaptation

Edited October 5, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[Phoenix.Rising 2,519]

The isidas healing is being reduced from 660 to 504 though, that's a major reduction so it won't even be as effective a healer anymore. Its also pointless having an increased energy consumption if the reload is being reduced. The isida nerf is a complete beating for the turret.

 

I said already, anyone with other garage options is never gonna want to use a turret that's been rendered pretty useless by this rebalance. Also, why would anyone bother buying and upgrading a turret that's had both its key features wrecked(healing/self-healing).=less isidas around

 

Frankly, I think Tanki have gone way too far with it...they could at least maintain or even increase its parameters for healing others...instead, they've made a turret that some have invested heavily in, pretty much obsolete.

Have to agree on this point. Heal % of others shouldn't be touched....

 

My M4 Isida was beaten up badly by this update to the ground :( No longer a visible threat. And now, its only unlocked at Marshal.. and you pay more. RIP... Eh, not really... i still must use it in team battles.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

My M4 Isida was beaten up badly by this update to the ground :(

Thats the issue.

An ISida is simply the first thing that is targeted when a base is entered.

The high selfhealing and healin was so important in Team battles, as it kept the isida alive longer, while all attackers made it's life shorter as a primary target.

 

Nerve the selfhealing on double power, thats enough.

Leave healing and those others specs like they've been.

Edited October 5, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[Doctor.Noob 3,270]

Now all m3 turrets and hulls will be  available in rank marshal. If I am rank colonel, and I have only m2 equipment, I will be very worried when I come to rank brigadier. How I am going to fight example in battle against other brigadier, and one or two ranks higher players, how had chance to get m3 equipment before this update ? Is that balanced game, you keep talking developers ??

[Cyborg 3,189]

But that's the thing. Isida was never meant to be that kind of turret. Isida is meant as a supportive turret. Just because it's super popular in DM, doesn't mean the balance is good. It's precisely because of the imbalance that Isida is finding itself in DM battles, when it's place isn't there.

But, it denies the fact that all hulls and turrets can be used in all game modes.. :c

[shallumsamuel 99]

If you are bored playing this game and you think that upcoming updates are useless ......then,

I think we should concentrate more on Studies instead of discussing this game Tactics and Updates...

And rest of part , say goodluck to our developers..Thats it.. :ph34r:

[WeIcome.To.Hell 1,247]

Now all m3 turrets and hulls will be  available in rank marshal. If I am rank colonel, and I have only m2 equipment, I will be very worried when I come to rank brigadier. How I am going to fight example in battle against other brigadier, and one or two ranks higher players, how had chance to get m3 equipment before this update ? Is that balanced game, you keep talking developers ??

If you face a Brigaider or the near ranks, they'll also have M2s.