Episode 108 of the V-LOG is here

[VaudeVille 1,428]

You reduce supply cool downs to reduce drugging?! If you plan to reduce the overuse of supplies, that's the most unintelligent way to do it.

 

For all buyers and non buyers alike who feel that there's a better way to improve game balance, check this out.

http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=336666&view=getnewpost

[Doctor.Noob 3,270]

I would bet that in rank brigadier, they will be option to buy m3 product kits, am I right ? If that so,  then this update, is only to force players to buy kits, and after a while, you make update, that kits can only buy with real money  :) .

[Doctor.Noob 3,270]

If you face a Brigaider or the near ranks, they'll also have M2s.

If you're lucky, yes, but if you dont have luck, then you face me, how have one more lower account with four m3 turrets, and  such players,how have generalisimo acc and lower rank acc is a lot.

[Doctor.Noob 3,270]

If you face a Brigaider or the near ranks, they'll also have M2s.

Take the example : It's been a month since this update (all m3 in rank marshal ) , and I become brigadier with m2 equipment. I decided to go in this battle. How much in this battle can be a player with m3 equipment ? 

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2016 by Doctor.Noob

[filipiar 46]

Isida was never meant as an assault weapon, that's true. It was designed to stay (as long as possible alive) at the base to heal teammates and especially the flagger.

So the best update for isida IMO would be reducing damage while keeping/buffing the healing and self-healing.

Edited October 5, 2016 by filipiar

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Take the example : It's been a month since this update (all m3 in rank marshal ) , and I become brigadier with m2 equipment. I decided to go in this battle. How much in this battle can be a player with m3 equipment ? 

 

 

 

This is definitely an issue.. but it will resolve over time.

 

I profiled some of the players in your screenshot in red team:

> most of them have M3's already

> but also most of them will be marshal within 4..8 weeks by their given rankup speed (most, not all)

 

I generally find it a good idea to have all M3s unlock at one rank; and in exchange have those M3s beeing at the same powerlevel (you know.. some early M3s in the past have been weaker then some late unlocking late M3s.. - this is now history).

It will be a tough 2..3 months until most rank issues are overcome.. but then it should be better then now.

 

(just talking about the ranks, not talking about the balance issues the new update brings as well)

Edited October 5, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[TTK_229 1,080]

derived from the description in the wiki. It does not state, that the damage of critical hits is influenced by range. Besides it is the only logical thing.. I mean.. do you really think that Tanki gives a +9% damage by a 20% chance? This translates into an averade damage increase of aprox. +2%.. which is not even recogniseable. Edit: But I asked that question a few posts below to have it clearified.

I truely understand it in the way, that the critical damage is now not anymore reduced by range. I am not 100% sure if it reaches longer then the min.damage range of ~130 meters, but it would make sense if it does.

 

About the overall DPM reduction: I have not compared old smoky to new smoky; I just plotted some graphs that show me the average DPM of most new turrets compared to each other on the Y-axis and given different ranges on the X-axis.

I have not yet made those graphs official, as in my optinion _DPM_alone_ is a misleading value.

 

 

A very important (and maybe more important) information is the time-to-kill (TTK)... meaning the time ot takes to take down a certain hull with a certain weapon.

 

Example:

1) a DP Thunder has more DPM then a DP Railgun. But while a DP Thunder can not one-shot a Hornet, a DP Railgun can.

So the TTK (time to kill) for the DP Thunder is about 2.5seconds (shot-reload-shot) while the TTK for DP Rail is 1,1 seconds (precharge-shot).

2) Some turrets (like Rico, Firebird) have damage bursts in which they deal serious damage - followed by a reload period. So while the Thunder DPM is about 2x as high as Rico's DPM, a Thunder takes 5.13 sec to kill a hornet; while the Rico takes only 2,73 seconds (at a range of below 46 meters). No doubt who will stand tall in a 1-1 showoff if they meet in an open midfield.

3) Even a Smoky kills a Hornet within 4,5 seconds (without critical hits!!), while a Thunder takes 5,13 seconds at their max damage ranges (below 65 meters).

4) Rico's DPM is waaaayy lower then Freeze's DPM.. but a Rico can kill a Hornet faster then a Frezee can - and it has some range reserve and rapid impacting shells too.

 

Also the time in cover is important.. a Vulcan deals more DPM then a Thunder; but the Thunder can pop out from it's cover, shot, and hide again (well, a fast M3 hull can). So most likely the thunder will survive longer using the same hull then a Viking.. and therefore his turret will have more "active time" on the battle field; resulting in a larger impact on the enemies health.

The real DPM dealt on the field is massively different from the DPM calculated based on the stats... and so the graphs alone are misleading.

 

 

DPM counts in CP games; and in other gamemodes if you are a pure damage dealing player that covers the midfield. In most other situations the TTK is more important - IMHO.

I agree, TTK is the most important. :P

[SuzieLouwolf 7]

Im glad I did not get m3 isida on tankers day..imho the self healing needed to go down some but  to 10% is a bit much..how m3 isidas in battles that full on drug can easily take flags if your team isnt full of m2s-m3s ..seen it too much lately and its somewhat annoying maybe after this update it will push isida players to be healers of the team and not going to flags full on drugs..

[wolverine848 13,097]

agreed on everything; but I like to add something to Smoky.

Smoky's new critical damage is a long range critical damage; as it can deal the amount of "close range damage" on infinite range - and this with 20% chance. On long range smoky deals a damage of about 50 hp; while the niew critical damage can inflict 500+ hp with a 20% chance (once all 7 seconds).

It makes a noticeable change in the DPM-over-range (damage per minute) chart.

What M3 level are those numbers for Smoky?

At M3 (according to new stats) Smoky would do damage in range of 55 down to 35 depending on range.

The critical listed at 60.

Now, if it does 60 damage on critical regardless of range that would certainly mitigate some of the nerfing. Would make it truly a long range weapon.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Isida should be a weapon to heal teammates and that is more what it will be not instead of an offensive weapon. It needed to be nerfed, maybe even more than it will be.

Wait - what?

Which parameter do you think should be nerfed even further?

[wolverine848 13,097]

But that's the thing. Isida was never meant to be that kind of turret. Isida is meant as a supportive turret. Just because it's super popular in DM, doesn't mean the balance is good. It's precisely because of the imbalance that Isida is finding itself in DM battles, when it's place isn't there.

 

Shouldn't all turrets have a chance to play each game mode?

How would one complete weekly missions that involve DM if the only M3 they (me) currently have is isida? I would be forced to "change" that mission each time, even if I have crappier missions.

 

And no turret should have just one role.

How boring would it be to play a tank that sits around and just heals other tanks - hanging on like a lamprey (but doing opposite).

I play isida a lot. The bulk of my experience comes from healing teammates sure.

However, the self-heal gives me the option to jump in and grab a flag when opportunity presents itself. having a piddly 10% self-heal will negate that, as isidas are usually the first target. They have a giant bulls-eye on them regardless of what paint they wear.

 

Isidas will indeed become more rare on the battlefield - especially once isida-users have a choice of equal m-level turrets to use.

 

A nerf down to 25% in self-heal would probably be a palatable compromise for most tankers.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

What M3 level are those numbers for Smoky?

At M3 (according to new stats) Smoky would do damage in range of 55 down to 35 depending on range.

The critical listed at 60.

Now, if it does 60 damage on critical regardless of range that would certainly mitigate some of the nerfing. Would make it truly a long range weapon.

values are for a M3 Smoky

wiki update page (max damage 548hp @ max dmg range up to 65meters, min damage 130hp @ min dmg range 130meters, critical hp 599hp @ critical chance 20%)

and here (old smoky wiki page) (weak damage 10% of max dmg = 55hp dealt @ targets beyond min dmg range)

 

I understood it in a way, that the critical damage is not decreased by range.. but obviously others think different.

 

Therefore I've asked the question here if Smokys critical damage will truly be a 2% on-top of normal damage (+10% damage by 20% chance = useless, more then unseless.. just crap) or if it will be a critical hit, that is not influenced by range (the only thing that makes sense).

Cedric replied he will try to get an answer. Lets get this clerified, so we know what this turret is about.

Edited October 5, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

A nerf down to 25% in self-heal would probably be a palatable compromise for most tankers.

I see no point why they reduce

- healing AND damage AND self healing

 

Well ok, I see one argument, one single point, that makes this move necessary:

Tanki wants the M4 isida users to buy different turrets.. and then later they "balance it back"

(like they did with hunter and Viking..)

[Phoenix.Rising 2,519]

It's not fixed yet.. There's mass testing coming...Hopefully there will be lots of complains and things will change! (For better.)

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

I wonder how they collect data in those mass test.

I hope they won't use those google forms, where they - most of the time - give only questisons that make reasoning and differentiated feedback impossible :p

 

(do you think it is better?... well yes here and there; no at others.. so what to take? I dont know? useless forms :p )

[Bydo 20,128]

I wonder how they collect data in those mass test.

I hope they won't use those google forms, where they - most of the time - give only questisons that make reasoning and differentiated feedback impossible :P

 

(do you think it is better?... well yes here and there; no at others.. so what to take? I dont know? useless forms :P )

if you feel there useless then don"t fill them out .. but then on the other hand how are they going to figure out the issues and reasons why we complain so much.. one place you should voice your opinions to is the main head office and let them know really how we as players feel about updates and how this game is heading way to much like Tanki X ..

 

give praise to the ones who deserve it ..

AlternativaPlatform

[Penguin40 1,714]

I wonder how they collect data in those mass test.

I hope they won't use those google forms, where they - most of the time - give only questisons that make reasoning and differentiated feedback impossible :p

 

(do you think it is better?... well yes here and there; no at others.. so what to take? I dont know? useless forms :p )

If you h8 Google Forms due to them, they just haven't been making good enuff surveys with Forms. It's capable of a lot of things ;)

[Unfit 4]

Actually, I wrote an e-mail to the support, and told them my opinon about this balance update. They gave me a link to this topic, so its them why i'm here.

 

So what i said is that this would impact the mechanics of the game a lot. The change of stats show a lot of problem for me. I have m4 isida right now, that does well in battles due to its 50% self-healing. From tomorrow this will be 10%. This would make me reconsider if i still need isida. And the anwser is no!

 

To be honest, i believe i'm not the onlyone thinking like this, thats why i'd like to ask the devs to make a full garage rebalance! So i could rearrange my equipments and keep on playing the game.

 

And if even more players quit (buyers included) the game would collapse, and aaaaaaall of you at the tanki hq would become unemployed.

 

So pls consider the full rebalance thing!

 

Thanks

[LittleWillie 3,199]

agreed on everything; but I like to add something to Smoky.

Smoky's new critical damage is a long range critical damage; as it can deal the amount of "close range damage" on infinite range - and this with 20% chance. On long range smoky deals a damage of about 50 hp; while the niew critical damage can inflict 500+ hp with a 20% chance (once all 7 seconds).

It makes a noticeable change in the DPM-over-range (damage per minute) chart.

Except "long range"  ain't what it used to be either.

 

When I started playing I used to get into long-range duels with rails, shafts, vulcans etc. Now I know I am better off getting in closer. So in the PRACTICAL DPS world, the vast majority of my actual in-game shots will be taken at closert tanges. The critical hit concept virtually ceases to exist in that realm. 

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Isida is a staple in team battles, the % of self heal may be lowered, but it helps to keep the team alive. Hopefully, numbers would not be reduced drastically.

IMO, it's a okay update because hopefully it encourages helping the team members by healing them, more than they fight others in team games. This enables the team to concentrate on the battle.

Since this change was announced I really really notice the amount of Islda drives who fly past my 60% damaged Titan in their little Wasp so instead they can attack the incoming bad guys. So they block my shot, get swatted, and then I am left at 40% to face teh bad guys -  briefly.

 

I've  played healer types in other games and I've never quite seen anything like that. Clearly a lot of players see healoing team mates as just something to do when there is absolutely no other option.

 

I hope many give it up. I know the power of a god team healer so I my healer alt will be beloved :)

[LittleWillie 3,199]

thanks ;)

 

 

But the inbalance of Isidas in DM does only occure because of it's selfhealing on supplies (DoublePower = the Isida can heal with 100% of the damagte that it deals = it does not loose health on close range).

 

If selfhealing would not be doubled by the DoublePower supply, then Isida would be balanced as it is today.

IMHO this would be the far better balance adaptation

I disagree from my noobie perspective. I have an alt with some pretty good MU=ed gear for the rank and that tank (Smoky/Titan) will see a Wasp/Idlsa come up and just park un front beaming me no effort to dodge or anything. Yeah, I'll kill it but not until it takes me down to ~25-35%.  If it has DD up I am dead. That's a Wasp in a simple toe-to-toe against a Titan ... a tough Titan.

 

You don't see any wasp/rails acting that complacent going up against my combo. just siting still saying OK let's do this. 

[Bankaiunited 27]

Am I the only one who thinks Tanki will introduce an alteration to bring back a part of healing % of isida that is going to be taken out soon? In this way devs can milk some more cash.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

The isidas healing is being reduced from 660 to 504 though, that's a major reduction so it won't even be as effective a healer anymore. Its also pointless having an increased energy consumption if the reload is being reduced. The isida nerf is a complete beating for the turret.

 

I said already, anyone with other garage options is never gonna want to use a turret that's been rendered pretty useless by this rebalance. Also, why would anyone bother buying and upgrading a turret that's had both its key features wrecked(healing/self-healing).=less isidas around

 

Frankly, I think Tanki have gone way too far with it...they could at least maintain or even increase its parameters for healing others...instead, they've made a turret that some have invested heavily in, pretty much obsolete.

True, but armor levels have been reduced a lot for medium and heavy hulls. So the new level of healing might be about the same, proportional to the amount of armor to be healed, as it is today. I do not know but we;ll find out.

 

Clearly though the players who took Idsla because it was an uber offensive weapon will abandon it. But for players like me who often play healer types - we'll run with it. And the rarer we are the ore people will love to see us appear. :)

[LittleWillie 3,199]

What M3 level are those numbers for Smoky?

At M3 (according to new stats) Smoky would do damage in range of 55 down to 35 depending on range.

The critical listed at 60.

Now, if it does 60 damage on critical regardless of range that would certainly mitigate some of the nerfing. Would make it truly a long range weapon.

Truly a long range weapon? No. Not at all. One hit in 5 would do any noticeable damage. Meanwhile the other guy's rail is punching holes in you. Or his shaft is turning you to slag.

 

What a 20% critical hit at long range means, every so often you will fire a defensive shot as you run for cover and you'll get a Crit on a badly-wounded tank and it goes boom. 95% of the time that does not happen.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

littlewillie

 

I agree more and more isidas go by without even looking at those sitting there shot up. The go to get flags or to heal their buddies only. So it is good enough for them that now they can sit around the flag and heal like they are supposed to.

Self-healing is down but they can still damage enemy tanks. So I see no reason to stop maneuvering on the battle filed. I certainly do not plan to just sit at the flag.

 

They just cannot return themsleves back to 100% easilly. That is the same as all other tanks and  THE OTHER TANKS get flags.