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New balance changes and other features


theFiringHand
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well since this new update this week new issues are not coming to the table and yea refresh / re-down loaded the game every thing and still this..

 

 

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That looks awesome. So colorful :D But it can really damage you're pc. :(

Edited by dan146_tanker

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first before updates rail gun M1 was able to take hornet M1 And m0 in 1 shot while shat dealed 3/4th damage to upgraded m1 hornets.after updates rail gun requires minimum 2 to 3 shots to kill a hornet while shat m0 can take hornet m1 with just few micro upgrades.this has made shaft almost invincible against hornet and light hulls while rail gun requires 2 to 3 shots to kill light hulls so rail gun is become indeed useless in battles.so i plea developers to increase damage done by rail gun at least as much required to kill light hulls in 1 or 2 shots maximum.thanking u.

Topic merged

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Well, feel free to read the one before as well:

 

 

 

 

 

So I mentioned the healing.

And in my later statement (which you quoted) we already talked about DM (as someone stated he saw ISidas handling wenn in DM) and the supremency of Fire and Freeze in DM vs an Isida.

 

 

So.. if you have not found a magic trick to heal your teammates in a DM... - just kidding, you know ;)

 

 

I know you are aware of it, but you neglected that factor in the post I replied to.

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I never said you couldn't be good with isida.  In fact, you can still be great with isida, and get in first with a good D/L.  What i'm saying is that the player with that isida, could do just as well or better with firebird or freeze. 

I tend to not think of "healing your teammates" as "kicking ass."

 

I was talking about how isida has absolutely NO advantage over a firebird or freeze in DM's. Even if you team in DM's you obviously can't heal them.

At least Tanki should make a feature where players that have isida as their only turret aren't given DM missions.  They should play in team battles anyway.

"Kicking ass" eans contributing significantly to the team win, thus gaining amply in both EXP and CRY. If you think that healing your team mates cannot possibly lead to team success, by all means stop playing your Isida,

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well, feel free to use an Isida vs a Freeze or Firebird in a drug free szenario (we talk about balance, not about drugging-skills).

Try to have a positive D/K ratio vs skilled Freezers and Firebirds.. and then come back and post the screenshots pls.

 

Because I simply can not understand, how a turret that is inferior with damage, should win.

There is only a very, very small range of distance between two tanks, in which the firebird can effectively loose to an Isida.

If the Isida pilot can keep that distance, constantly, then he has a chance to survive. If his fighting distance is just a little closer.. he is done.

The answer lies in scenarios in which the two opposing tanks do not simply drive head-first towards each other. The proof is what we see in play and I have seen Isidas doing just fine. The only turrets I see doing notably better is Freeze, and that may be mostly due to seeing so many more of them. But I digress...

 

Here's the basic requirements your are futilely pushing against:  

 

  • No turret can be the best in every role.
  • Isida is intended to be very good in the team/support role.
  • In any balanced game, therefore, Isida cannot be also very good in the solo role.

Your argument boils down to: there are other short-range turrets the (you perceive) to be better in solo combat. OK, let us assume your perception is 100% spot-on. We are sill left with the above requirements. Your argument may be valid but none of those other short-range turrets have the special non-solo ability of Isida.

 

Or to flip your argument on its head ... If Isida is made as deadly in solo combat as Freeze, Hammer, And Firebird ... then why would anyone buy THOSE turrets when they can have one that also rules in team play?

 

See?

 

Keep pounding your head against the brick wall if you must, but brother it feels so good when you stop.  ;)

Edited by LittleWillie
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Well, that is the reason it got reduced. :)

not really. Tanki isnt so smart .they rebalance according to no of players using it . Ru1 is mostly railgun becoz of xp . If they check just no of players using then railgun will be more than anyother weapon . Reason simply becoz of xp battles .

Besides railgun isnt so easy to master . It is most successful weapon in this game.

Edited by POWERFULLSOUL

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Riconot has played a few rounds with hunter-hammer. Well, it is still a decent equipment set. It amazes me, though, how good everyone seems to be all the sudden, especially with all the health packs.

 

I find hammer to be hard to use for overall team play. Fine for DM, not so much supporting a team. It does not seem to be as OP as it was.

 

Facing hammers and fighting as hammer has me saying there isn't much difference, but it is more pedantic, slower and less dynamic.

 

Why does it seem slide was decreased, but the hulls, hornet, hunter, viking, and titan, all seem to be more squirrelly? The hulls are slower to respond, harder to drive, and much more prone to being diverted by a shot.

 

The changes would seem to make them more stable, but they all seem harder too drive, harder to make respond to the dynamic needs of battle, and more prone to disruption from fire or other battle circumstances. Nothing works right with the hulls. Everything is off, messed up.

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Cedric Debono, perhaps you will start a new thread for discussing how everyone feels now that they've had a chance to play it a little.

 

 

 

I still assert that these modifications took the fun out of the game and set mediocrity and supplies as the dominant theme. 

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Well isida's are still dominating. It is just that one must know how to use it to perfection. Using isida to attack should be the second option. First thing is to heal the mate next to you. I saw 2 isidas just took off the flag so easily when the whole team was shooting at them. Yeah off course you need to be on full supplies too xD

 

But overall isida is good now and freeze is way too OP

Isida is a short-range turret. Now, it can't hold its own against almost any long-range turret.

 

If you want to know what is OP, it is TWINS. At 880 DPS (data for M4), it beats the your OP Freeze 840 DPS.

 

You did not notice that? A mid-long-range turret beats your OP short-range turret. That is the laughable thing.

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TheBlackChink, on 20 Oct 2016 - 20:15, said:snapback.png

 

 

So...after this rebalance here's what I think:

There's no words that can describe what happened to Isida... Railgun is now a joke and Isida is worse and Hammer seems to be a bit too weak too

Firebird, Freeze and Vulcan seem to be OP...Thunder seems to be playable again which is fine...I didn't meet that many Smokies, Ricos and Twins to say if they are strong or weak or actually balanced...And about Shaft: Who plays Shaft anyway?

Viking switched places with Hunter so now Hunter has similar charachteristics to our beloved old Viking but Hunter is also taller which means it's a little better for golds and can also tilt better 

Reducing cooldowns between activating supplies is a change that I really like...drugs got more OP now and I can be triple drugs most of the time

Being able to actually see how much damage you deal with each shot is helpful and I really like this change and it also allowed me to test if there's something wrong with the damage of Thunder and the results are really interesting

 

If you want to see how much Thunder actually deals you can watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmin9XhI1Bg

I recorded just because I was really curious and a bit bored too and I admit it...The video may be too dramatic but I was bored  :P

 

 

 

Has Cedric or somebody else from the Tanki staff already responded to this video? This scene needs to be clarified. 

Edited by Tani_S

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not really. Tanki isnt so smart .they rebalance according to no of players using it . Ru1 is mostly railgun becoz of xp . If they check just no of players using then railgun will be more than anyother weapon . Reason simply becoz of xp battles .

Besides railgun isnt so easy to master . It is most successful weapon in this game.

RU1 is the definition of XP and unfortunately BP ​ XP used to be etiquette and had skill in it. It was a formal way of battling. But now.... Its all lost. And the ''skills'' these campers learn in XP.. well they take it with them to the battle field with normal battles. The thunders and the twins have nothing to use to get away from these railgunners. They chase the railgun but railgun hides and runs. Its not because there was waay too many people playing XP. It was because most of the railgunners were taking advantage of what they learn in XP battles. That's when they made themselves OP. Do you see twins using special tactics only the railgun family knows? What about thunder? No you don't its 'cause they don't have the technique railgun does.  If everyone starts multung and waiting for the opposing team to make a move people are gonna complain. And that's when the devs have to take action. Do you think they'd do updates like this for no reason? The devs aren't dumb, they just don't care most of the time.

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The answer lies in scenarios in which the two opposing tanks do not simply drive head-first towards each other. The proof is what we see in play and I have seen Isidas doing just fine. The only turrets I see doing notably better is Freeze, and that may be mostly due to seeing so many more of them. But I digress...

 

Here's the basic requirements your are futilely pushing against:  

 

  • No turret can be the best in every role.
  • Isida is intended to be very good in the team/support role.
  • In any balanced game, therefore, Isida cannot be also very good in the solo role.

Your argument boils down to: there are other short-range turrets the (you perceive) to be better in solo combat. OK, let us assume your perception is 100% spot-on. We are sill left with the above requirements. Your argument may be valid but none of those other short-range turrets have the special non-solo ability of Isida.

 

Or to flip your argument on its head ... If Isida is made as deadly in solo combat as Freeze, Hammer, And Firebird ... then why would anyone buy THOSE turrets when they can have one that also rules in team play?

 

See?

 

Keep pounding your head against the brick wall if you must, but brother it feels so good when you stop.  ;)

344a7f66143012202280153713_700wa_0.gif

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Whether someone is see in Wiki development plans, planned " improved CP mode " ?  :ph34r: It worries me very much.

Do not touch CP mode it's just fine as is now.

Yes, I've asked for it quite some time ago (more then a month?). My question was, that I asked to share their plans.. or at least the issues that they want to solve with the community.. so we can give some feedback _before_ it's all implemented and done.

I think the answer I got was something like [dont worry, dev's will do a good job. They consider all kind of scenarios] (according to my memory.. may vary slightly. But I think this was the core message.

Well thats the polite and professional and kids-compatible version of "sorry, we dont give any information and are not interrested to share that with everyone in the forum".

 

You can choose

  • if they truely believe that
  • Or if it was just a comment of protection.
    • Either to protect the devs from potential useless ideas (I mean.. honestly.. even today they have 2x a week a request to make equiipment sellable.. or to make this or that weapon overpowered)
    • Or to protect their plans because they may not be in the interrest of the average (free) player.
After the answer I'd heard enough to know, that I can stop asking.
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Whether someone is see in Wiki development plans, planned " improved CP mode " ? 

 

As the EN Wikipedia Administrator, I reply you in an official way: the Development Plans wiki-page IS NOT updated by Wiki Editors, but by Devs themselves and myself.

 

They send to me updates on their plans (wheter they will do so, when they will do so and how often they will do so is UNKNOWN to me) and I edit the page accordingly. The "improved CP mode" text you saw in our Wiki is, for everyone, just plain text, an item in a list — we are not Devs, none of us is, so we can't know what's behind Devs' plans :)

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RIP Rico

RIP Mammoth

 

Haven't seen either of these since the change. On the other hand-

 

Titan is king. (It's the new Viking :ph34r:)

Freeze is back, but Firebird is still more common. Firebird M3+ is apparently useful now.

 

Twins is better. Thunder is better. Rail is a lot better with the shorter reload. Vulcan seems unchanged. As does Shaft. Smoky and Hammer seem the same but might not have gotten enough of a nerf to balance out the nerfs to the hulls they are tearing through.

 

Isida - is NOT dead. But I have noticed that I can kill them - they are no longer immortal due to OP self healing, but neither is it useless.

 

I can't say RIP Viking, not quite yet but time will tell. The hull is very frustrating to use. It is very fast which is its only redeeming feature now as it no longer sports 'enviable armor'. It's amazingly fast on the new speed boost and at times I was surprised to see that kind of speed outside of a wasp. Still good for CTF maybe but for Poly CP Viking just can't measure up.

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RIP Rico

RIP Mammoth

 

Haven't seen either of these since the change. On the other hand-

 

Titan is king. (It's the new Viking :ph34r:)

Freeze is back, but Firebird is still more common. Firebird M3+ is apparently useful now.

 

Twins is better. Thunder is better. Rail is a lot better with the shorter reload. Vulcan seems unchanged. As does Shaft. Smoky and Hammer seem the same but might not have gotten enough of a nerf to balance out the nerfs to the hulls they are tearing through.

 

Isida - is NOT dead. But I have noticed that I can kill them - they are no longer immortal due to OP self healing, but neither is it useless.

 

I can't say RIP Viking, not quite yet but time will tell. The hull is very frustrating to use. It is very fast which is its only redeeming feature now as it no longer sports 'enviable armor'. It's amazingly fast on the new speed boost and at times I was surprised to see that kind of speed outside of a wasp. Still good for CTF maybe but for Poly CP Viking just can't measure up.

well i can't say for sure about the other rico players only cause i do have alteration on mine ..

 

 

for hornet hull i find nothing is different other then its lighter and faster when you use speed .. you loose control fast.. if going for gold and a hornet  player is there you can push them out of the way there very light hulls now.. little to no weight on the hulls now..

Edited by frozen_heart

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The answer lies in scenarios in which the two opposing tanks do not simply drive head-first towards each other. The proof is what we see in play and I have seen Isidas doing just fine. The only turrets I see doing notably better is Freeze, and that may be mostly due to seeing so many more of them. But I digress...

 

Here's the basic requirements your are futilely pushing against:

  • No turret can be the best in every role.
  • Isida is intended to be very good in the team/support role.
  • In any balanced game, therefore, Isida cannot be also very good in the solo role.
Your argument boils down to: there are other short-range turrets the (you perceive) to be better in solo combat. OK, let us assume your perception is 100% spot-on. We are sill left with the above requirements. Your argument may be valid but none of those other short-range turrets have the special non-solo ability of Isida.

 

Or to flip your argument on its head ... If Isida is made as deadly in solo combat as Freeze, Hammer, And Firebird ... then why would anyone buy THOSE turrets when they can have one that also rules in team play?

 

See?

 

Keep pounding your head against the brick wall if you must, but brother it feels so good when you stop.  ;)

 

 

You make structured, strong points - I like that ;)

 

Lets talk about DM first, and talk about Teammodes thereafter.

 

 

I think, that the changes in the last update defacto locked out Isidas from DMs.

 

 

Sure you will see Isidas in DM, but their number will decrease fast.

Reasons why Isidas will soon be a rare sight in DM, compared to other _close_rangers_:

 

 

  • lower damage (isi dmg was even further decreased, while firebird and freezes damage was increased
  • less potential attack patterns (no hit&run afterburn, no freeze-slowdown, no attack Two-at-Once kill stealing)
  • the only additional attack pattern for Isida (ranged damage) is very hard to master vs. closerangers
  • the only additional attack pattern for Isida (ranged damage) is less efficient vs long and midrangers (they can hit you easier if you are at 15m range, instead of beeing close up)
  • crystal earnings in DM are only good, if you score well. Other turrets will score better due to the reaons above. You have to be able to "afford" wasting your time with an Isida in a DM, and scoring bad, while at the same time you have to have a very wide frustrtion tolerance.

 

 

 

Reaons why you will still see some Isidas in DM:

 

 

  • exceptional skilled players that are in need of an extra hard challenge
  • druggers on M4 vs less drugging players (drugs vs non drugs make any turret strong)
  • players that simply love their Isida, play average, score now even lower, and have not yet breached their frustration level
  • those whom own only a single set of M3/M4, and this is Isida (unluckily) and they can not afford something else yet. If the dont belong to a group of above, they will switch as soon as they can afford it

 

 

So talking about the average.. I almost bet (I never bet, therefore almost) that the number of Isidas in DMs will reduce drastically.

Simply because the other closerangers Fire and Freeze (only valid comparism partners to Isida style DM gameplay) do their jobs better there. So everyone that truely likes to plays DM on close range will sooner or later switch (as soon as they can afford an adequat exchange, by crystals, rank and microupgrades).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now Teambattles

 

 

 

Some general aspects

 

 

  • Compared to Fire and Freeze
    • Isida lacks the very usefull area damage in order to attack two targets simulataniously
    • Isida has no "post-attack effects" (afterburn and slowing down).
    • Isida has a shorter range

       

      ^ those three drawbacks should compare for healing. At least they did the last 3 years; while OPness of Isisda was only seen on drugs.

  • the abillity to heal comes with the disadvantated to wear a very, very large target sign on your back. This serious disadvantage was balanced out (!) by the aility to self-heal (!)
  • Even if an Isida has the the abilities to attack _and_ heal (def. an plus) it has only one single energy bar. It can not do both actions at once.. it has to choose (slimms the plus down).

So.. over all I think it was balanced.. and is not any more.

 

 

 

Lets look at some typical scenarios

 

Isidas in Attack support

 

 

  • on small maps it will still work good. But what turret might the attacker drive that you support on small maps? -> most likely Fire, Freeze & Hammer.

    Still you wear the target sign on your back; while the enemy closerangers (small map) will deal 10% more damage.. and you can not take care of yourself any more. Thinking this through, it is very tempting to opt for Fire, Freeze or Hammer by yourself... but I think Isida will have a place there.

  • midsize to larger maps (serpuchov): when following your attackers through the middlefield every tactical clever enemy sniper + midfielders will hit you as hard as they can. In the past you could compensate a little by recharging from enemy midfielders; but the future looks pretty dark. Except a bright brown Shild is enlighted over you.
  • very large maps: actually worse then above.

 

 

 

Isidas in Midfield

  • I've never seen some, can't tell

Isidas in Defense

 

 

  • Without self healing Isidas will die more quickly (you always get your share of damage by enemies.. then your teammates protect you, you heal them, soon before the enemy is down you have to attack the attacker by yourself in order to recharge a little. Well, forget about this now).
  • Rest mostly unchanged, it will still be nice to have an isida in the base.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Overall summary:

 

 

So overall I do not support your statement, that healing is balanced with weakness.

 

First of all healing and attack use the same energy pool, so you dont really have two abilites you can "set into work", you have "two possiblities to choose from".

Additionally that healing _was_ already balaced by missing area-attack (tow targets simultaniously), post-attack effect (afterburn, slow down), and less range.

The ability to selfheal was very much needed, as the ability to heal comes withthe disadvantage of beeing the primary target for everyone that sees you.

 

In my opinion Isidas where OP on DP drugs, as the selfheal was linked to the DP as well.

Without drugs (we remember that Tanki said drugs should be used less :rolleyes: ) life for Isidas was hard (at least I used to make their lifes hard with my rail), and ot got harder now. Additionally they are practically useless in DM.

 

 

Does not sound balanced to me.

 

ps: sorry for the typos.. I gotta sleep now.. late here :)

Edited by BlackWasp777
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BlackWasp777 et al.,

For your consideration, Isida should not even be allowed in DM. DM format should simply not permit isida turret on player's tank. Smoky and thunder cannot enter XP. Isida should not be able to enter DM. The self-heal, even after the this mod to only 10%, is a function no other turret has. It was an absurd advantage that let the average supply-rich isida score double any other player in small-map DM. With the new emphasis on supplies, it hardly seems to have diminished by the nerfing applied to the isida. Sure, it is nerfed, noticeably, but there are still too many on most battlefields.

 

Isida is not fun. It has no qualities I find acceptable.

 

The rule has always been, and always will be, shoot isida first.

 

If one has isida in view, shoot it. Don't shoot others until the isida is destroyed.

 

Surprisingly, after this update, isida is still effective and annoying. If Tanki deletes isida entirely, I, for one, will not miss it.

 

I seem to be pathological about isida. I honestly hate it. Occasionally a friendly isida proves worthy, but most are just in the way and complicating combat.

 

Sure, when I have an effective isida teammate, I appreciate it, and I try to shield it. I try to cooperate with it, but most of the time, such efforts prove futile.

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As the EN Wikipedia Administrator, I reply you in an official way: the Development Plans wiki-page IS NOT updated by Wiki Editors, but by Devs themselves and myself.

 

They send to me updates on their plans (wheter they will do so, when they will do so and how often they will do so is UNKNOWN to me) and I edit the page accordingly. The "improved CP mode" text you saw in our Wiki is, for everyone, just plain text, an item in a list — we are not Devs, none of us is, so we can't know what's behind Devs' plans :)

Thnx ;)  - and no worries, it was not you answering me that way ;)

 

I cant find the original question and answer at the moment; most likely because I use the wrong key words to search the forum. I checkmarked it with "useless to proceed" in my mind, and the details in my memory got deleted thereafter :p

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Isida is a short-range turret. Now, it can't hold its own against almost any long-range turret.

 

If you want to know what is OP, it is TWINS. At 880 DPS (data for M4), it beats the your OP Freeze 840 DPS.

 

You did not notice that? A mid-long-range turret beats your OP short-range turret. That is the laughable thing.

The laughable thing is that you are comparing twins and Freeze DPS. When both weapons have different abilities. And no doubt if one knows how to do a circle thing around a tank using freeze(which i assume most of us know) then no matter which turret you are using. There is no way you can get freeze. And the way it is buffed after the balance it just take seconds..... Edited by zainslimshady

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BlackWasp777 et al.,

For your consideration, Isida should not even be allowed in DM. DM format should simply not permit isida turret on player's tank. 

Sorry, that's not my point.

You talk about forbidden, while I talk about "beeing ineffective".

 

There are always maps and scenarios where some turret are "ineffective". Like Rail-Wasp is "ineffective" on Arena-CP battles, if it is crwoded with Titan-Twins. It can play.. it will even score nice and save your teammates butt sometimes.. but other combots are so _much_more_efficient_.

 

While those rail-example shows that certain turrets do not fit certain scenarios/maps,

>> the isida example impacts a complete gamemode (DM) on all maps

 


 

You are right that Isida was OP on Supplies.. and therefore I proposed a long time ago to change Isida mechanics in a way, that the DP drug will not double the self healing. A lot of players agreed (also Isida players).. but Tanki seems not to like this proposal, in order to take out the overpowerness. They rather decrease other values, that have been balanced.

 

I don't know if you played vs Isidas in drug free Pro battles. They where so much less powerfull there.. and it felt truely balanced to compete with them. Either in DM or in Teambased battles.. it was ok (I play Wasp-Rail 95% of my time, so flanking the enemies base and fighting Isidas is one of my main tasks)

 

 

Isida' selfhealing on drugs is the issue, no Isida overall

Think of it: selfhealing on drugs made the Isida loose almost NO hp all (!) if it encounters any other tank and could shot at it. You deal double damage and receive none. That was ridiculous.

 

But instead of solving a problem, they created a new one.

Edited by BlackWasp777
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NobodyUKnow70 has nearly half-million experience and about 120 hours play time. NobodyUKnow70 uses only the starter kit equipment. Only hunter-smoky.

 

Well, I am surprised that it didn't change more. The stat differences made me fear it would no longer be worth playing at all.

 

It is sluggish and unresponsive, but it is surprisingly effective still. It is half as fun, but about as effective as before. Of course, my overall 3-million-plus experience help me adapt quickly to the changes and sluggishness, but I no longer seem to generally be able to dominate at those mid-ranks that NobodyUKnow70 is at.

 

Supply-use can run me out of battles now. That never used to be a problem. Now, on the opponent's fourth health-pack on my fourth assault, I figure there are better battles. I understand gizmos have nothing else to spend crystals on, but mid-ranks didn't used to drug all the time. Now, always at least one double, and I have to overcome a repair-kit to get the kill, either with one of my own, or with overwhelming skill. With my specialization on the hunter-smoky, I often managed. Since the update, it is rare. Since I don't buy supplies, I just start dying a lot after my own repair kits run out. (At least until they run out too, or decide to stop using.)

 

Overall, the smoky nerf and hunter changes only really matter to the skilled players. Those skilled players dedicated enough to stick it out and redevelop skills with the sluggish equipment might rise again. However, I think a lot of smoky players will switch to thunder. Players who like hunter can probably get used to it, but many will likely switch to a light or heavy hull. The mids currently have very poor characteristics, except maybe dictator. It is about as unwieldy as ever, and players who have grown to like it will probably stay okay with it. The DR format may help the dictator popularity, too. I don't know. I don't buy pro pass, though I am wondering. If supply use remains so high, I may have to buy pro pass and look for no-supplies battles. Though, experience tells me there are none, at least not when I play (late evening USA).

 

Tankers always say, "buy pro pass; join no-supply battles." However, there simply are no pro battles at low ranks. There are few at mid ranks, and they are not as popular as people pretend at the high ranks. For all the complaining about supplies, most tankers use and join standard battles.

 

I'll close with the reminder of the new Tanki Online motto: Use or lose!

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Sorry, that's not my point.

You talk about forbidden, while I talk about "beeing ineffective".

 

There are always maps and scenarios where some turret are "ineffective".[...]

 

But instead of solving a problem, they created a new one.

Okay, point taken. I agree with you overall. Still, I just dislike isida too much to care. I'd be happy if they halfed all its parms again, or just deleted it.

 

I've always thought the key to fixing it was to reduce its attack damage and range, but increase its team-healing versatility. Your suggestion would be along the same lines. It seems to me the isida was intended to be a healer, but it has never been implemented that way. It is much more a vampire.

 

So, whatever. I'm still trying to make up my mind if I am going to struggle through these changes or just give up and go back to being an old man that doesn't play computer-games again.

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