New balance changes and other features

[LittleWillie 3,199]

I have to admit I did not read it in full deatil, as it's late :)

Please consider this:

At M3/M4 your damage gets higher but the enemy hull does get stronger - which cancels each other out.

But at M3 the turrets spin faster as well as the hulls. You run into the same problem as Freeze, which freezing rate is ok at M2, but too low or  barely enough M3/M4: when you surprise someone, he still turns around and takes you under heavy fire.

 

As suprises require a light hull usually, you will have some troubles as they are all fast spinning mediums in higher ranks: they stand longer. Even the heavies spin fast, and what their hull can not do is compensated by fast turning turrets. And you can hardly suprise well experienced tankers in team modes.. in DM it works only if they are busy with 1..2 others. Else their trained battlefield awareness spots you early, and their well aim harms you early.

 

Sure you can fight them, but it will not not work, to pile up kill streaks of 4..5 tanks that you suck out _all_by_yourself_ in order to pile up health.

 

So I belive you that 10% may be enough in the battles you fight and with your skill; but you can not translate that into higher ranks.

It's a little bit different, vs Gismos that have 2x the experience you fight against today.

I am far from convinced. By now I've fought close to 100,000 battles so this notion there's still a vast learning curve to be climbed is pretty hard to swallow.  

 

But in practical terms I cannot be too worried. I expect to never hit Gizmo ranks. By the time I reach Marshal and the m3 drug/mult cluster**** of teh endgame, I'll probably have played enough Tanki.

 

This is Tanki's major design flaw and it is colossal. The designers have given me, the player, exactly no reason to want to earn Exp Points and higher rank. In fact anecdotes about the Legend-rank endgame indicate the gameplay experience is inferiour to that at lower ranks.

 

So I am using the last grade gear I'll ever have: m2. I'll never see what these God like players can do . lol

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

You're right, gameplay is much more fun in the M1 and M2 ranks, then it is later on.

The protection modules are not that tough which makes the gameplay more fun.. drugs are not so common, you face noobs as well as pro's. I enjoy playing my low rank alts a lot.

 

But I may not play them too much so they don't rank up too much ;)

Which is true too: there is no real incentinve for multi-format players to rank up. Of course they all leach for M3s.. but they forget that by the time they gain them, the others around them have em as well :p

 

There is only an incentive for XP/BP players, as XP/BP makes way more fun with M3 and vs Pros.

 

 

 

Btw, those palyers are no gods.. but truely good.

enjoy the video..

and if you like to, imagine yourself in the pilots seat, if you would have that battle field awareness that he has

 

Edited November 17, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[wolverine848 13,097]

Forgive me for going back to Isida but there's something I'd like to be sure of regarding the self-heal.

 

As I've posted I am having a good time with my new Stinger kit. And I freely admit having m2 gear puts me at a matchup advantage if I make sure to enter games at my rank level or lower. Anyway I've had some good runs with the Isida, killing 4-5 enemies in rapid order each time and of course yes heavy drug use was involved.

 

Let's say there is a case like this. The Isida drops into an enemy pair with DD active and carnage ensues.  Assume the Isida gets surprise on the first victim who does not have much time to fight back. But his friend does after a moment. So the first few seconds of self-heal do nothing because our heroic Isida is still un-wounded. Then the enemy shells start landing as the Isida destroys them one by one until one side is left.

 

The thing is... most every turret that has A) DD and  B ) surprise can wreak havoc - for a period of time.  Even an isida.

But if you are relying on these perfect conditions to be successful regularly, then good luck.

 

The 10% really does not add up to a lot... maybe allows you to take one more shot from a weapon.

For freeze and firebird it's less than a second of grace.

 

And the isida does not have unlimited supply. In battle with tough enemies it runs out faster than you think.

Edited November 17, 2016 by wolverine848

[Epic_Space_Mango18 592]

M3 and M4 Viking Dictator and Hunter all have the same amount of hp, and are all very close in terms of speed, but Dictator has the most pushing power, so it basically means Dictator is the best to get, but with the stats being so similar between THREE tanks is wrong.

 

Mammoth is the heaviest Tank in the game, making you think it would have the most hp, but it only does at M0. Titan has more hp than Mammoth at the M1 and M2 level but they have the same amount at M3 and m4, so basically means to get Titan, being the strongest tank in terms of hp.

 

For Hornet and Wasp, I noticed Wasp M2 has more hp than Hornet M2 which makes NO sense since Wasp is the weakest in the game AND is more expensive by like 40k crystals if my memory serves me right. Once again, at the M3 and M4 level, they have the same amount of hp.

 

I love how the description on Mammoth says "There's no match for this one's armor," yet Titan MATCHES it.

 

Devs...please fix this.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

The thing is... most every turret that has A) DD and  B ) surprise can wreak havoc - for a period of time.  Even an isida.

But if you are relying on these perfect conditions to be successful regularly, then good luck.

 

The 10% really does not add up to a lot... maybe allows you to take one more shot from a weapon.

For freeze and firebird it's less than a second of grace.

 

And the isida does not have unlimited supply. In battle with tough enemies it runs out faster than you think.

I knew the message would get lost in talk over he example. [sigh]

 

The exact example does not matter. The effect is there is good situations and bad. In the long run those situations even out and the math remains. What the math says is this:

 

An Isida tank has a tactical advantage no other tank has: It's effectively fights as though it had "One Hundred Plus X" percent Hit Points. What value X deserves to be in the long run is unknown. 

 

Now - the assumption here has always been that X is exactly 10%.

 

My point to all this is that X is a higher number.  Over the long run the Isida tank will re-gain much more than a mere 10% of it's own hull strength.  The simple fact that the enemy tank can have more HP than the Isida is proof enough of that.

 

My honorable counterparts in this debate have put forth that Isida now offers no tactical advantage over other short-range turrets. So why will anyone interested in a short-range turret every buy Isida?

 

I've always said in counter that there will always be players who take Isida because they want to heal their teammates, the end. I've also suggested that experience shows the Isida seems capable from what I have seen. But my highest account is only a Major, so...

 

So I am taking the debate one step further. I would like to suggest the Isida turret has at least two well-defined tactical advantages over the three other short-range turrets: Firebird, Freeze, and Hammer.

 

For all 10 other turrets Isida has the advantage of fighting with an effective hull strength of 1xx% HP - and that number is bigger than 110%.

 

For Firebird, Hammer  and Freeze the Isida has the advantage of constant damage over distance.

 

The next stage in the debate will of course be "but those advantages are not enough!". However it is at this point ladies and gentlemen that debate ends and game-play begins. Because leveraging these small advantages in combat is what winning and losing is all about. We cannot settle that question on the forum. It must be settled in Rio, Dusseldorf, and Berlin. :)

 

Let me know the 1.5 million exp point view. I'll be here abusing warrant officers and lieutenants with m2 gear MUed to General-level power. :)

 

Until the next update, of course

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

 

So you DO want to test Isida out in battle, eh?  How about this: You get your isida m2, I get my freeze m2, ( as we both aren't druggers), we join on the same team, and we'll see who finishes ahead. How about that? :D

[wolverine848 13,097]

So you DO want to test Isida out in battle, eh?  How about this: You get your isida m2, I get my freeze m2, ( as we both aren't druggers), we join on the same team, and we'll see who finishes ahead. How about that? :D

Not quite the same comparison.

 

We've never indicated an Isida could not earn exp/pts.  It's kills that is issue.  So fight one-on-one in a mutually agreed upon map.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Not quite the same comparison.

 

We've never indicated an Isida could not earn exp/pts.  It's kills that is issue.  So fight one-on-one in a mutually agreed upon map.

Well isida is not supposed to get kills- as it's first priority. That's why a more fair comparision is when we are on the same team, so his healing comes into effect.

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

For Firebird, Hammer  and Freeze the Isida has the advantage of constant damage over distance.

 

You want to keep distance from Hammer?  Will be a short battle. It's max damage range is still greater than Isidas attack range.

 

You have a tough time keeping distance from freeze as you are s-l--o---w---i----n-----g down as it attacks.

 

Firebird can damage you and take off. You're still burning while you are not self-healing.

 

I'm not saying Isida is useless in Tanki. I'm not even saying it did not need some nerfing. I am saying they went too far.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Well isida is not supposed to get kills- as it's first priority. That's why a more fair comparision is when we are on the same team, so his healing comes into effect.

Daily Missions.... cough DM cough.  cough 50 kills on ___ map/game mode cough

 

If they could replace the above missions with "healing" missions then we have a different story.

Fact is two specific missions are extremely difficult to complete with Isida turret.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

So you DO want to test Isida out in battle, eh?  How about this: You get your isida m2, I get my freeze m2, ( as we both aren't druggers), we join on the same team, and we'll see who finishes ahead. How about that? :D

Sure we can test it out that way. That's a great idea. :)

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

cool idea :) play a couple of those.. and agree on maps in advance :p

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

cool idea :) play a couple of those.. and agree on maps in advance :P

Noise is good: very common and good for both isida and freeze (however I personally hate that map)

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Daily Missions.... cough DM cough.  cough 50 kills on ___ map/game mode cough

 

If they could replace the above missions with "healing" missions then we have a different story.

Fact is two specific missions are extremely difficult to complete with Isida turret.

My Isida missions yesterday were: 500 points in DM mode and another one was Kill 40 enemies. Now since I have to kill 40 enemies on my way to 500 pt in DM, that kill 40 enemy one really was a freebie. But they both paid a Crystal reward so I did them. 

 

Which makes me think of I_W_A's post above there. Now that I think about it one of the DM battles was on Barda with just Isida/Hornet me, plus one each of the other short-range turrets, plus two Twins. Everyone had light or medium hulls...I know the Twins had mediums and also the freeze. Anyway that match was tough. It was a hard match in constant combat with short-rangers with Twins jumping in from only a bit further away.  I still scored 16-17 kills but I did probably have the better gear than most.

 

I remembre this stuff because I was thinking about the debate here at the time. :)

 

That fight made me realize how in DM I prey on the medium and long-rage hulls. In that DM when everyone was basically a short-ranger it was tough. Especially getting freeze-jumped, and them medium-hull Twins.

 

Annyway, I really do feel the Isida is deadly enough to perform the DM missions. I wouldn't play DM on Polygon but give me Dusseldorf (no on-map Repair Kits by the way). Now if you really really love DM missions then Isida is probably not your turret. 

[LittleWillie 3,199]

You want to keep distance from Hammer?  Will be a short battle. It's max damage range is still greater than Isidas attack range.

 

You have a tough time keeping distance from freeze as you are s-l--o---w---i----n-----g down as it attacks.

 

Firebird can damage you and take off. You're still burning while you are not self-healing.

 

I'm not saying Isida is useless in Tanki. I'm not even saying it did not need some nerfing. I am saying they went too far.

I know wolverene... we're all just arguing about how well Taki has moved the line. I guess what it boils down to is this: I am saying the nerf to Isida is not quite as bad as the rest of y'all are saying.

 

There are certainly probably specific tactics or approaches that no longer work. But others do work. As an Isida player you earn exp and Cr and most importantly have fun while doing so. 

 

I attack, I defend, I roam, I cruise solo or I move with a pack. I do not feel limited in 'having to sit at the base and heal' in any regard. But when battle begins I have options no one else has. Everyone can try to kill the enemy. Everyone can try to dodge attacks. Everyone can duck behind cover and use the terrain and pop drugs. But when the ammo is flying only Isida has the choice of altering it's firepower from killing the enemy to saving the ally or the other way around. It is another option in the real-time split-second decision making chain that drives the adrenaline frenzy we call gaming.  B)

 

Isida gives you an option and choices no one else has. That adds to the fun ... if you do not mind a lower K/D. :)

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Noise is good: very common and good for both isida and freeze (however I personally hate that map)

I too, hate that map. :)

 

The map doesn't really matter. I fully afmit that in a 1:1 duel situation a freeze is way ahead of the Isida. Isida is like Smoky (to me) in that ambushing foes in larger DMs works better.

 

BUT I've neve had a chance to do a 1:1 like that with someone I've met in the game. It'd be fun to see how the battle goes, And it'd be interesting to test a couple conditoins like rages and blocking angles too.

 

 

:)

[wolverine848 13,097]

I know wolverene... we're all just arguing about how well Taki has moved the line. I guess what it boils down to is this: I am saying the nerf to Isida is not quite as bad as the rest of y'all are saying.

 

There are certainly probably specific tactics or approaches that no longer work. But others do work. As an Isida player you earn exp and Cr and most importantly have fun while doing so. 

 

I attack, I defend, I roam, I cruise solo or I move with a pack. I do not feel limited in 'having to sit at the base and heal' in any regard. But when battle begins I have options no one else has. Everyone can try to kill the enemy. Everyone can try to dodge attacks. Everyone can duck behind cover and use the terrain and pop drugs. But when the ammo is flying only Isida has the choice of altering it's firepower from killing the enemy to saving the ally or the other way around. It is another option in the real-time split-second decision making chain that drives the adrenaline frenzy we call gaming.  B)

 

Isida gives you an option and choices no one else has. That adds to the fun ... if you do not mind a lower K/D. :)

It's great in ANY team battle. Even TDM.

 

Once you start seeing M3s... it can't compete in DMs. I don't use it anymore for DMs. Just does not get it done.

[wolverine848 13,097]

My Isida missions yesterday were: 500 points in DM mode and another one was Kill 40 enemies. Now since I have to kill 40 enemies on my way to 500 pt in DM, that kill 40 enemy one really was a freebie. But they both paid a Crystal reward so I did them. 

 

Which makes me think of I_W_A's post above there. Now that I think about it one of the DM battles was on Barda with just Isida/Hornet me, plus one each of the other short-range turrets, plus two Twins. Everyone had light or medium hulls...I know the Twins had mediums and also the freeze. Anyway that match was tough. It was a hard match in constant combat with short-rangers with Twins jumping in from only a bit further away.  I still scored 16-17 kills but I did probably have the better gear than most.

 

True - if you're doing one might as well keep the other.

 

Not sure how many supplies (if any) you used to complete those missions - but - I'm not in a position to use a DD every time I spawn.

 

If not many tankers in the battle, how long to get your 500 xp? How many battles?

[RIDDLER_8 5,552]

I am aware that in approximately every two years there is a global re-balance update on all the turrets and hulls in Tanki Online. When the next re-balance update comes in the next two years, shall M4 Isida become super strong once again?

[RIDDLER_8 5,552]

How long will this topic remain open?

[railguniz4noobz 2,394]

How long will this topic remain open?

Until more news comes out and this gets auto archived.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

The emotions that went along with Wasp were all killed by the update.

 

Wasp was great fun.. now Wasp is boring, unprecise and therefore anoying.

 

The longer I use it, and the more I get used to it, the more it bores and anoyes me.

(and I've doubts that this will change.. while i have not given up hope yet)

 

 

I dont understand why the fast hulls have been set into unprecise, drunken snail mode.

 

It's not like Wasp was soooo overpowered in multiformat battles on M3/M4 level. In fact it was quite hard to compete with it between all those strong Vikings and heavies.. but now it feels even more useless then it was.

 

If it was the target to make them useable by everyone (Wasp M4 was a beast and hard to control if you were not experienced) then.. consider who purchases a Wasp M4: someone that used M2 and M3 for a long time, and that as spend many hours with it. It is _OK_ if it is tough.. as there are enough other options (get a hunter or Viking if you like).

Edited November 18, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[RIDDLER_8 5,552]

So when more news comes out on this topic, it will get automatically closed.

[RIDDLER_8 5,552]

I really love and appreciate the more powerful Freeze turret. I only have a few more micro upgrades to M4 Freeze. Yay.

Edited November 18, 2016 by RIDDLER_8

[RIDDLER_8 5,552]

A few days ago, I have witnessed that there were a huge increase in the number of Vulcan turrets in all battle types. That is a good thing since Vulcan was a bit weak before the re-balance update. Vulcan is now the most popular and most used turret in Tanki Online since the new Play Button. Once again, the turret popularity has changed since the newly released Play Button, and normal battles are only 15 minutes long instead of 30 or 60 minutes long.