New balance changes and other features

[george_ace 57]

Don't think of burning time.. better think of heating rate.

An "of stock" M2 firebird has a heating rate of 0.2 and a temperature limit of 0.6.

So it will increase the enemies temperature-rating from 0 to 0.6 withing 3 seconds (0 -> 0.2 -> 0.4 -> 0.6).

IF (and only if) you flame the enemy for 3 seconds constantly, THEN it will have a temp of 0.6, and THEN the burning time is as given by tanki (burnign time = time for temperature to drop back to zero by the cooling rate).

 

Afterburn deals 300 hp damage per second if you reach temp 1.0; for temp 0.6 the burning damage is 60% of 300hp. If you stop heating them, the temp will drop and so will the burning damage.

 

For your damage readins.. have you been close up?

You have to be closer then 7,79 meters for an firebird M2, in order to deal max damage (a wasp or the tiles on the ground are about 5 meters long.. to give you an idea). Damage decreases fast if you are further away.

 

 

check the wiki for mode details

Yes, I was very close up. Those figures are the maximum I have ever gotten too, I usually do even less damage than that. I also heated the tank for long enough that the effects should have been maximum that they could be (i.e. I unloaded an entire packet). For the burning time I was doing no damage after at most 3 seconds, not the claimed 15.1 seconds. Before the update the burn didn't stop until the displayed time (15.1 seconds in my case) passed, although of course the amount of burn damage lessened over time. The most burn damage I have ever done per second for afterburn since the update was only 70.

[Bydo 20,124]

CooperO

 

Thanks for taking the time to figure this out

 

ok i do agree with you on most of it but with ricochet ( due to having alterations ) i find its stronger then rail .. now with out i can't say due to all top three accounts have it..

 

now when you get time i would like to see the results on hammer / rail and smokey .. with Vulcan and shaft those two its not easy to test them..

 

also test ricochet for the distance with and without alterations due to adding it , it's suppose to make it go farther and in my books the distance is far enough i think before alterations i shot across the battle field in polygon

 

we don't need distance like rail we need more damage impact force or reload .. 

 

thanks

Edited October 25, 2016 by frozen_heart

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Yes, I was very close up. Those figures are the maximum I have ever gotten too, I usually do even less damage than that. I also heated the tank for long enough that the effects should have been maximum that they could be (i.e. I unloaded an entire packet). For the burning time I was doing no damage after at most 3 seconds, not the claimed 15.1 seconds. Before the update the burn didn't stop until the displayed time (15.1 seconds in my case) passed, although of course the amount of burn damage lessened over time. The most burn damage I have ever done per second for afterburn since the update was only 70.

Well one other thing is, that the damage of firebird is states as [damage per second] in the stat's, but the game does inflict the damage in portions each 0,25seconds. So isntead of dealing ~800 _once_ a second, you deal about ~200 _four_times_per_second_.

So if those low numbers pop up 4x a second, then they are fine.

 

For the afterburn time I have no idea why you experience such low afterburn times.

I do not own a high grade firebird, so I cant test it by myself.

Edited October 25, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[TANKPATROL_083014 250]

5 minutes?    Whhhhaaaaat!!!!!!

 

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

We've done some testing on the three short range turrets (freeze, firebird and isida).

We tested freeze vs isida, firebird vs isida and freeze vs firebird, all mounted on viking. Micro upgrades were off and no protective modules were used.

 

You have to take into account, that it is very unlikely, that an Isida can maintain it's maxium range during an fight. It will be closer, as the firebird will chase it. If the Isida drives backwards, the firebird will stop until the Isida is ot of its range, and continue to follow up with dealing mostly afterburn damage, keeping an eye on his energy bar. Same goes for freeze: if an Isida goes backwards he increases distance, freezes it do standstill from safe distance and then takes over at one side to take it out.

Also Fire and Freeze have more range and can start to shoot the ISida earlier, while the Isida is not yet capable to shoot (half a second of effect)

 

If we talk about balance.. then it is more then just damage.

- isida has no "long lasting effect" (afterburn that allows hit&run; Freeze slowdown that allows multiple tactics in offense and defense (besides killing!),

- Isida has no area damage (ability to hit multiple targets simulataniously).

 

So overall.. there are more negative aspects then positive ones, if you talk about facing each other 1-1.

 

Of course an Isida can heal. but this always made it the first tank to die.

Therefore was the selfhealing needed.. to takebalance out the large crosshair planted on it's back.

 

 

So while I am completely ok with fire and frezee beeing stronger killers then an Isida, the selfhealing was a valueble aspect that made Isidas survive in attack support and in defense. Both roles are now significantly harder.. because the enemies will continue to aim at the Isida as primary target.

 

I still believe, that cutting the DP effect on selfhealing would have been enough of a balance.

To gain 2x the health from the target when on DP, was the issue that made isidas invincible. Cut this, and the rest is fine.

Edited October 25, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Even now the isida would be fine if the healing was increased to 800 hp/second instead of around 530.  In perspective, fire/freeze m4 do 840 damage per second.  This would make isida more valuable and a more effective healer.  As of now, isida heals very very slowly, and it takes a long time to get a hunter to full health.  Why the healing was reduced I have no idea (and don't really care to know ;) )

[POWERFULLSOUL 78]

Hiding and camping are the same thing. The reason railgun had to be reduced is 'cause everyone just hid. With the new railgun fast reloading means less hiding more skill. Hiding is not a skill, anyone can go behind cover and just sit their till the battle ends or the opponent makes a move.

Its fair now.

lol .. Your playing style is odd .. try using titan with railgun ... if guy like you are in my team(xp battle) i would leave the battle lol.. Edited October 25, 2016 by POWERFULLSOUL

[T-34-3m 360]

No no no twins requires the most skill!

 

Titan-Rail requires more skill than anything. You have to know what you're doing in every situation, and counter all manner of turrets with nothing but a heavy hull and a long-range rifle. By the time you master it, you're ready for anything.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Maybe Isida was reduced, because battles became boring if long&midrangers camped in Silence and get healed up by Isidas all the time.

I often faced the situation that I as rail dealt zero points for Miuntes.. as all the damage I dealt was healed away.

 

Anyways it would make more sense to limit the number of Isidas per battle, instead of limiting the Isida itself.

By limiting the number of Isidas the single Isidas would still be more compeatative

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Maybe Isida was reduced, because battles became boring if long&midrangers camped in Silence and get healed up by Isidas all the time.

I often faced the situation that I as rail dealt zero points for Miuntes.. as all the damage I dealt was healed away.

 

Anyways it would make more sense to limit the number of Isidas per battle, instead of limiting the Isida itself.

By limiting the number of Isidas the single Isidas would still be more compeatative

That's why freeze and fire should be powerful attackers- so they can get behind those snipers and kill them along with their healing isida.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

• ...
• Freeze vs firebird: Both tanks are destroyed. The firebird is destroyed slightly faster, but the afterburn finishes off the freeze right after.

Why would freeze destroy the firebird first? According to the wiki, they have the same damage per second and max damage range.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

it is hard for 2 players to trigger the space button at the same time

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

it is hard for 2 players to trigger the space button at the same time

I know, that's what I thought the cause was, but in that case it's a question of human error..and he should not go posting those inaccurate statistics where everyone can see them...In this case it's better to use the statistics from the wiki, which states that, minus burn effect, freeze and firebird do the exact same damage at any range.

[george_ace 57]

Well one other thing is, that the damage of firebird is states as [damage per second] in the stat's, but the game does inflict the damage in portions each 0,25seconds. So isntead of dealing ~800 _once_ a second, you deal about ~200 _four_times_per_second_.

So if those low numbers pop up 4x a second, then they are fine.

 

For the afterburn time I have no idea why you experience such low afterburn times.

I do not own a high grade firebird, so I cant test it by myself.

Those numbers have been showing on my screen only once per second.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Those numbers have been showing on my screen only once per second.

Wow that's interesting.  On my screen it's at least twice a second, i don't know as i can't really count how many times the numbers pop up, they pop up too fast. :)

[wolverine848 13,097]

If Tanki won't make it a dedicated healer, then I won't mind if they delete it entirely.

 

What exactly do you mean by "dedicated healer"? An impotent tank that just heals?  B-O-R-I-N-G.

 

I can just imagine your version of an Isida - following his team-mates around so it can get a few points of experience. Maybe chasing a wasp team-mate who's slightly injured - "Slow down - I can't heal you..." Comical.

 

Everyone has a turret they despise. If tanki deleted every turret that was despised by someone I don't think there would be any turrets left.

[wolverine848 13,097]

No offence, but that sounds like a stupid test. Test freeze like it should and are being played by circling around enemy. I bet isida/firebird would have no chance at all and freeze would win by at least half of health bar. I am not saying freeze is new isida or highly overpowered, just pointing out fact, that your test was stupid.

And a good Firebird makes use of the burning. It won't stand there until both opponents have emptied their tanks.

[NoobTanker18 63]

For me, I never really liked Hunter. It skidded too wide when using speed boost and IMO is an ugly tank, but after the update it simply turns. No skidding. To be honest I like that but I still don't use it.

 

The Viking on the other hand before the update always felt a little slow and skidded in the slightest when using speed boost, but now it acts like a hornet on steroids! It's soooo much faster and drifts so amazingly! It's everything the Hunter was SUPPOSED to be!

 

Which is why i think everybody hates Viking now...well...a lot of people.

 

I mean, after the update, I played on my main account where I use Shaft and Viking M1, the Shaft at 23/50 on Mu and the Viking at 12/50.

 

Even against people with M2 and possible M3 equipment I faired rather well, but what surprised was my first battle on Monte Carlo after the update. So I went over the little ramp and picked up a speed boost box, then the double armor box and finally the double armor box. At first I was like:

 

"Okay, a little more speed"

 

But then it felt like I was driving a Wasp! I was essentially! 8.5 plus 3.4 equals 11.9. It was amazing to go aroudn the corner as well to find it now DRIFTED! I was like:

 

"Ha! Two for one!"

 

But then the real mind boggler.

 

The RAMP. That jump in which only the hornet and Wasp can pass over at my rank, but at the speeds I was going, I decided to go for broke and jumped it. My mind was B-L-O-W-N when I made it to the other side!

 

I really love how they changes Viking. Yeah a slight HP drop but a decent speed increase! Although it's like a punching bag when shot...

[jazz20 1,181]

long time ago Viking was the best hull in the game. Viking and rico was the best combo. Then came rebalance lol

[CooperO 7,956]

No offence, but that sounds like a stupid test. Test freeze like it should and are being played by circling around enemy. I bet isida/firebird would have no chance at all and freeze would win by at least half of health bar. I am not saying freeze is new isida or highly overpowered, just pointing out fact, that your test was stupid.

It is indeed a far too simple test, because in normal battles there are so many other factors to take into account. This was just to show what would happen if you put the turrets against one another. It is true that Freeze can circle around, but I've noticed that for example with viking and smoky, I have no trouble keeping up with the freeze WHEN I see it coming. Also, the freeze effect is almost negligible if the opponent is using a freeze protection module of 40-50%. 

 

CooperO

 

Thanks for taking the time to figure this out

 

ok i do agree with you on most of it but with ricochet ( due to having alterations ) i find its stronger then rail .. now with out i can't say due to all top three accounts have it..

 

now when you get time i would like to see the results on hammer / rail and smokey .. with Vulcan and shaft those two its not easy to test them..

 

also test ricochet for the distance with and without alterations due to adding it , it's suppose to make it go farther and in my books the distance is far enough i think before alterations i shot across the battle field in polygon

 

we don't need distance like rail we need more damage impact force or reload .. 

 

thanks

 It would certainly be interesting to test all the turrets with and without alterations, but it would be better to wait until all the alterations are released. It will not be easy to find enough players with alterations though.

As for ricochet, I too would prefer damage or reload speed over a bit of extra distance.

 

You have to take into account, that it is very unlikely, that an Isida can maintain it's maxium range during an fight. It will be closer, as the firebird will chase it. If the Isida drives backwards, the firebird will stop until the Isida is ot of its range, and continue to follow up with dealing mostly afterburn damage, keeping an eye on his energy bar. Same goes for freeze: if an Isida goes backwards he increases distance, freezes it do standstill from safe distance and then takes over at one side to take it out.

Also Fire and Freeze have more range and can start to shoot the ISida earlier, while the Isida is not yet capable to shoot (half a second of effect)

 

If we talk about balance.. then it is more then just damage.

- isida has no "long lasting effect" (afterburn that allows hit&run; Freeze slowdown that allows multiple tactics in offense and defense (besides killing!),

- Isida has no area damage (ability to hit multiple targets simulataniously).

 

So overall.. there are more negative aspects then positive ones, if you talk about facing each other 1-1.

 

Of course an Isida can heal. but this always made it the first tank to die.

Therefore was the selfhealing needed.. to takebalance out the large crosshair planted on it's back.

 

 

So while I am completely ok with fire and frezee beeing stronger killers then an Isida, the selfhealing was a valueble aspect that made Isidas survive in attack support and in defense. Both roles are now significantly harder.. because the enemies will continue to aim at the Isida as primary target.

 

I still believe, that cutting the DP effect on selfhealing would have been enough of a balance.

To gain 2x the health from the target when on DP, was the issue that made isidas invincible. Cut this, and the rest is fine.

The isida doesn't have to keep it's maximum distance though, both firebird and freeze's damage already decreases really fast. I think it it will happen more often than not that the tanks are further apart than that 8.82 meters. I agree that isida is the weakest of the three, but it makes up for it with the healing ability. Apart from that, isida's energy consumption is less than the other two turrets, which means that isida will be more competitive if two heavy tanks with protection modules or with double armor are facing eachother. 

You might be right that removing the DP effect on self healing would have been enough, but we will never know. Even then isida might have been too powerful. 

 

Why would freeze destroy the firebird first? According to the wiki, they have the same damage per second and max damage range.

Because their stats are the same, it's more than likely that half the times freeze wins and half the times firebird wins. In this case we only tested it once. When testing this 10-50 times, you'll probably get different results. 

 

I know, that's what I thought the cause was, but in that case it's a question of human error..and he should not go posting those inaccurate statistics where everyone can see them...In this case it's better to use the statistics from the wiki, which states that, minus burn effect, freeze and firebird do the exact same damage at any range.

I didn't post any statistics though, I just posted the results of a little test. I could have just looked at the statistics, but in battles, it's never as black and white.

---

On a final note, it's great to see you all remain critical when reading something, it's a valuable asset!

[CooperO 7,956]

 

For me, I never really liked Hunter. It skidded too wide when using speed boost and IMO is an ugly tank, but after the update it simply turns. No skidding. To be honest I like that but I still don't use it.

 

The Viking on the other hand before the update always felt a little slow and skidded in the slightest when using speed boost, but now it acts like a hornet on steroids! It's soooo much faster and drifts so amazingly! It's everything the Hunter was SUPPOSED to be!

 

Which is why i think everybody hates Viking now...well...a lot of people.

 

I mean, after the update, I played on my main account where I use Shaft and Viking M1, the Shaft at 23/50 on Mu and the Viking at 12/50.

 

Even against people with M2 and possible M3 equipment I faired rather well, but what surprised was my first battle on Monte Carlo after the update. So I went over the little ramp and picked up a speed boost box, then the double armor box and finally the double armor box. At first I was like:

 

"Okay, a little more speed"

 

But then it felt like I was driving a Wasp! I was essentially! 8.5 plus 3.4 equals 11.9. It was amazing to go aroudn the corner as well to find it now DRIFTED! I was like:

 

"Ha! Two for one!"

 

But then the real mind boggler.

 

The RAMP. That jump in which only the hornet and Wasp can pass over at my rank, but at the speeds I was going, I decided to go for broke and jumped it. My mind was B-L-O-W-N when I made it to the other side!

 

I really love how they changes Viking. Yeah a slight HP drop but a decent speed increase! Although it's like a punching bag when shot...

 

Topic merged.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Also, the freeze effect is almost negligible if the opponent is using a freeze protection module of 40-50%. 

 

Hold the phone... Freeze protection module reduces damage AND freeze-rate (slowness)?

 

For some reason I was under the impression only the old Anaconda paint did that.

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

 

I agree that isida is the weakest of the three, but it makes up for it with the healing ability. 

 

Are you referring to healing others and gaining experience as opposed to "self-healing" during combat?

 

At 10% the self-healing is barely noticeable.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Are you referring to healing others and gaining experience as opposed to "self-healing" during combat?

 

At 10% the self-healing is barely noticeable.

Unnoticable and a trivial side concern is a better way to describe it.  I don't even take it into account when I do any sort of calculation lol...

 

Hold the phone... Freeze protection module reduces damage AND freeze-rate (slowness)?

 

For some reason I was under the impression only the old Anaconda paint did that.

If the modules do that then there is absolutely NO reason why people should claim freeze is OP.  If you hate it, why. get the protection module and you're done!  Without freeze effect it's basically a firebird without the afterburn. 

[CooperO 7,956]

Are you referring to healing others and gaining experience as opposed to "self-healing" during combat?

 

At 10% the self-healing is barely noticeable.

I'm indeed referring to the healing of teammates. The self-healing is not enough to make a difference.