Update 428 — Parameter tweaks and more

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

All i have was the Vulcan, they just take it from me, go to hell tanki team, hope you get poor and poor! Wish i never played this game!

And this is why the devs sometimes treat us like kids who they have to condescendingly explain each and every one of their actions to.

[misafeco 713]

All i have was the Vulcan, they just take it from me, go to hell tanki team, hope you get poor and poor! Wish i never played this game!

That's a little too far, but I too want to get back the ~100 hours of my life playing this game.

[austen_pierce 1,948]

Tough pill to swallow for turrets, but I feel really bad for folks who bought alterations. Turrets are often discounted whether through sales or kits or other discounts. Alterations have always been full price. Thus alteration nerfs hurt more.

[S.E.E.K.E.R 1]

well let me say this i dont hate u tanki i did enjoy this game for the past 2 years and im grateful for it but it seems that with each passing day ure hurting more and more players (free or paying players alike) with these updates.dont u see ppl invest their hard earned money or/and valuable time in this game ? and u devs easily trying to destroy that we worked so hard for and for what? i too believe its just way to make money.this dirty business strategy is what make u lose more than u gain in long turn.anyways things will be same as always devs do wat they want without paying any considerations toward the satisfaction  of the costumers.so to u guys who r going to keep playing gods give u patience me im having a blast with world of tanks for a week now so...good luck to u guys ;)

[austen_pierce 1,948]

I also ask that AP stop making each balance change so drastic. Incremental changes over time give players the ability to adjust. This back and forth on nerf / buff demonstrates a profound lack of organizational capabilities maturity. For the younger players out there (I hope AP knows this!) capability maturity means the ability to repeatedly execute successfully.

 

This game, on the other hand, looks like a train wreck during each implementation.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

They will never reach 100k at the same time again anyway. It's a mystery why they keep doing updates like that. They have to see the numbers of players going down, but it seems like they don't care. Strange.

I am a new player and believe me re-balance updates do not drive people like me away. I understand the need for rebalancing as it happens in every game. But mostly new players do not have as much invested in any one mode of play. New players are more adaptable in this regard.

 

What does drive new players away from Tanki are mostly related to the in-game economy, the cumbersome progression tree, and artificial roadblocks.

 

Economy: Prices are so high in terms of hours played that players are forced into one turret/hull/module, but new player especially crave variety. Prices lead to dull battles like Poly CP further reducing variety.

 

Progression Tree: Most games give players a little bit of progress each level of the way. Tanki foes not. You can go up 6 ranks but still not at the rank yo need to buy your improved equipment. You might have the Cry for weeks but not the exp points, or the other way around. In the mentime you can play literally months with the same exact game gear. That is forever by internet gaming standards. But it's even worse than that. Ranking up lets you - and your opponents - use the same gear with better performance. But you stil play the same maps the same formats. Ranking up adds no variety to the game.

 

Artificial Obstacles: Now maybe your've leveled up, and you've not spent a single Crystal in 9 weeks. You get that last exp point and .... the kit you need is not in the Shop. Finally it rotates to you, 2 weeks later. You 9 week wait has become 11 and Tanki wonders why you do not call this FUN!!! Or maybe you've ranked up and saved but not quite enough. You need to wait for one of the many sales in order to upgrade. And as we all know, you do not MU unless there is a sale, and then you splurge.  So all this waiting foe sales is just more artifical delay/

 

Tanki's player base is dropping because A) Every players tops playing eventually and B) Tanki has massive barriers telling new blood to not bother sticking around long.

 

Unless you just love drive-and-shoot games. So help me God I have a disease. :)

[babaimi 0]

Dear Tanki...

 

 

Here is why you make it all wrong with the updates, according to me of course:

 

* It's perfectly OK to make changes

But never downgrade a turret, hull, protection. You are stealing my money, dudes! I also paid with real money not only in game winnings to upgrade my hulls, turrets and protection paints. You simply do not have the right to replace the product I paid for with a lower quality one. It is that simple.

Imagine you purchased a fully loaded Audi A6 and suddenly the dealer took it away from you and replaced it with A3 basic - doesn't make any sense, does it? 

 

*My experience and reaction

Some time ago you killed my M4 freeze. I kept quiet, thought it was a single case misunderstanding.

Switched to Isida and took me hell a lot of time, effort and money to upgrade it to M4. You killed it with the last upgrade.

I was lucky to have a M4 freeze resurrected but was not happy nor enjoyed it cause I knew this cannot last for too long. Same for Vulcan and Fire, to some extend to Smoky and Hummer. You boosted it to an extremity and the game went off balance.

And again, it is not right to downgrade an existing turret, hull etc.. Part of the pleasure in playing Tanki is making smart choices in turrets and hulls, develop your skills with it, selecting the right maps for it, build friends network with like mined players and enjoy great battles together. It takes only one poorly thought update to take all this away.

My reaction? - I promised myself I will never spend another dime in Tanki anymore. You stleo from me - twice - I don't trust you anymore, simple, isn't it. If you make it impossible to play without buying this and that from time to time, OK, I will just quit. I'll miss it for a month or two and then forget it. Also simple.

 

*Eventual solution

Instead of downgrading a turret/hull which you have wrongly gave a too big of an advantage - upgrade the ones you left behind. And bring new turrets to the game.

This way you will keep everybody happy and more importantly, the game in balance. Nobody will have a tangible reason to complain. You cannot complain that the game became more challenging or more fair play. You get my point?

And this will not have a negative impact on your earnings. Of course you have to make a good profit, I am aware of that. But only a happy player will spend real money in the game.

Prior to the last update I was regularly buying crystals with the Double C Card bonus - not because I needed it to accomplish daily missions or so. I wanted to have extra drugs in hand to be able to be a better team mate when enjoying a battle with my friends in the game. Or simple because I had this urge to play some hours only for the pleasure of it, not because I had to, spending huge amounts of drugs absolutely unreasonably. Because I was happy with the game!

I am the kind of a team player, I don't care for my kills/deaths balance. It's not by occasion the only turrets I have invested in are Isida and Freeze. I just love these turrets and have built all my playing skills and style around these two. And this is also not bad for your earnings. I am not buying new turrets you introduce but have to buy and micro upgrade the protection needed against it. Makes sense?

 

*In conclusion

Making mistakes is OK, we all do. It's OK to sometimes not oversee the long term effect of a decision on the game balance. But it's NOT ok to try solve it with a move so similar to the one that brought the very same problem in the first place. And this is exactly what happened with the last update and will happen again with the forthcoming one.

 

And remember, when downgrading my turret/hull, even if I have not spent any real money to get it or upgrade it, I spent time and effort and the feel is still you are stealing from me. Repulsive.

 

I hope you give it a thought..

Thanks

[wolverine848 13,097]

^

 

But was helpful  :)

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

^ is now there:

http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=342304&page=34&do=findComment&comment=5891421

 

:)

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Dear Tanki...

 

Here is why you make it all wrong with the updates, according to me of course:

 

* It's perfectly OK to make changes

But never downgrade a turret, hull, protection. You are stealing my money, dudes! I also paid with real money not only in game winnings to upgrade my hulls, turrets and protection paints. You simply do not have the right to replace the product I paid for with a lower quality one. It is that simple.

Imagine you purchased a fully loaded Audi A6 and suddenly the dealer took it away from you and replaced it with A3 basic - doesn't make any sense, does it? 

 

 

 

OK, they won't "downgrade" your turret. They will instead boost every other turret and then every other hull to compensate. That will leave every other item the same relative to one another. Only yout turret will be weaker relative to the other. But they did not downgrade your turret.

 

Rebalancing by definition means some things are made stronger and some weaker but that is always expressed in terms of strength relative to one another. 

[LittleWillie 3,199]

LittleWillie if you think Isidas should only be effective in Team Battles, and don't belong in DMs, as they have no role/purpose there,

 

What do you think about an update that doesn't give Isida players DM missions?  

And my response has always been that are in point of fact Isida are effective in DM battles. It may take something more than Poly CP tactics of rushing to the middle of the pack and killing anything that comes near until 8 enemies finally manage to overcome a promiscuous self-healing rate. but they are effective. Isida players might find team battles easier but ... duh.

 

They are not dominant in DM like they once were. Dominance is not a prerequisite for effectiveness.

 

This has long been a circular argument. Self-healing is going to remain what critics call "too low" because it ain't.

 

What do you think of an update that doesn't give Titans or Mammoth CTF missions?  Y'know those can be a **** for Defender hulls too. And Hunters really aren't all that fast when you think about it. . .

Edited December 1, 2016 by LittleWillie

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

And my response has always been that are in point of fact effective in DM battles. They may find team battles easier but ... duh.

 

They are not dominant in DM like they once were. Dominance is not a prerequisite for effectiveness.

 

This has long been a circular argument. Self-healing is going to remain what critics call "too low" because it ain't.

No, you are kind of dodging the question. I asked, would you be opposed to that system being implemented?

 

The way tanki is playing around with re-balancing stuff, the self-heal will be resurrected sooner or later.  :lol:

Edited December 1, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[LittleWillie 3,199]

No, you are kind of dodging the question. I asked, would you be opposed to that system being implemented?

 

The way tanki is playing around with re-balancing stuff, the self-heal will be resurrected sooner or later.  :lol:

I didn't dodge it I did not understand that to be your concern. No I could not care less if Tanki did that. But honestly I do not think they will because ... as someone pointed out ... how could they? Players can own more than one turret.

 

Maybe self-heal will increase again but it will never be baclkto 50% again. No where near it. It's effects are exponential not linear and exponential growth is extreme. 15% one day maybe but 50% never.

[AverageDavelaar 89]

Why not decrease vulcan's impact force??

[Lethal_Injection 586]

This is just ridiculous. First you make a "rebalance" that essentially meant that I threw away many crystals that I spent on MU-ing Isida. So I decide to buy a more powerful weapon, look at the stats, and I decided on Vulcan. I bought a kit with Vulcan in it and I spent many more crystals MU-ing that. And now this this second "tweak" that nerfs my Vulcan to the point where it is trash. Just trash. At least give people a heads up about these updates and refund their crystals, so they can make a more educated decision about what they should buy. 

[vegan_donuts 37]

2. Some turrets/hulls, based purely on their playstyle, appeal to a larger portion of players. For example, hornet tends to be popular at the mid ranks not because Hornet M2 is strong, but because many players like being "fast" and "clever" and "strategic", as opposed to using a Titan. I would use hornet or wasp even if it was nerfed again, but this doesn't mean I think it's balanced, I just like the playstyle.

 

Because more people use a certain piece of equipment doesn't mean it's stronger than the others.

 

Excellent point. However, I would think Tanki agrees with you. I don't think when they say "balance" they really mean the number of each hull in the game should be equal. I suspect they have a certain target ratio in mind for each hull, like maybe hornets should be 20-25% of users and mammoths and wasps should each be 10%.

[vegan_donuts 37]

Why not decrease vulcan's impact force??

The rebalance cut it in half already. Have a heart.

[van_zan 10]

for anyone who didn't get it yet: Tanki does NOT want you to buy one combo and exel it, Tanki want you to buy a LOT of stuff...and because that is impossible on the m1 and the m2 levels for the most free players, i say that this game is officially P2P now.

 

so, yeah, you can either buy stuff, or leave, or stay and suffer...

 

oh, and just to let you know, this isn't theire last rebalance !

 

but it's a good move from Tanki that they nerfed Vulcan, it was creazy vulcan wars out there...BIIIG "HAHA" on the face of all the noobs who got the M1 or M2 vulcan for it's new power lol

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by van_zan

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

This is just ridiculous. First you make a "rebalance" that essentially meant that I threw away many crystals that I spent on MU-ing Isida. So I decide to buy a more powerful weapon, look at the stats, and I decided on Vulcan. I bought a kit with Vulcan in it and I spent many more crystals MU-ing that. And now this this second "tweak" that nerfs my Vulcan to the point where it is trash. Just trash. At least give people a heads up about these updates and refund their crystals, so they can make a more educated decision about what they should buy. 

1. Don't worry, Vulcan will be re-buffed in a month or so.

 

I can't stress this enough:  Do not buy equipment based on how powerful it is, as you will be constantly forced to re-buy and things will be moved around. Buy equipment based on how you like it's playstyle and stick with it regardless of nerfs or buffs.  I have chosen Freeze to stick with and I will use it however it is nerfed or buffed.  And I will not be tempted to buy any other turrets until I have m4'd or near m4'd it. (except railgun later for xp/bp and other stuff, but I already plan on doing that.)

 

 

It is key to success in this game to have a well-planned and laid-out buying plan. Ex "I will get rail m2, then Minotaur, then save up for m3 kit, etc." and avoid "impulse buying" based on how OP or "cool" a turret currently is, so you don't find time and time again yourself cheated out of crystals, disappointed, and frustrated.

Edited December 1, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[van_zan 10]

This isn't rebalance. Rebalance means small changes to make the game more fair. You basically murdered Vulcan. No one will use it from now. I'll play with Twins or Smoky on my alt account. I refuse to buy an M2 Vulcan which is worse than my current M1.

A good poll would be: Will you continue to use your Vulcan after the rebalance? I'm sure at least 80% will be 'No'.

P.S.: I spent some money on my current account. I'll NEVER buy anything from now. You won't get a single penny from me. What's the point? You made my turret useless, what's the point spending anything on this game?

typical response from a guy with Vulcan and titan as a main combo...i hope you enjoy the vulcan now !  :D  :lol:  :D  :lol:  :D

[GeeVuh 1,647]

I can't stress this enough:  Do not buy equipment based on how powerful it is, as you will be constantly forced to re-buy and things will be moved around. Buy equipment based on how you like it's playstyle and stick with it regardless of nerfs or buffs.  I have chosen Freeze to stick with and I will use it however it is nerfed or buffed.  And I will not be tempted to buy any other turrets until I have m4'd or near m4'd it. (except railgun later for xp/bp

and other stuff, but I already plan on doing that.)

Something like this...

 

 

Those are actually my real plans ._. feel free to leave a comment... XD

 

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by GeeVuh

[LittleWillie 3,199]

for anyone who didn't get it yet: Tanki does NOT want you to buy one combo and exel it, Tanki want you to buy a LOT of stuff...and because that is impossible on the m1 and the m2 levels for the most free players, i say that this game is officially P2P now.

 

so, yeah, you can either buy stuff, or leave, or stay and suffer...

 

oh, and just to let you know, this isn't theire last rebalance !

 

but it's a good move from Tanki that they nerfed Vulcan, it was creazy vulcan wars out there...BIIIG "HAHA" on the face of all the noobs who got the M1 or M2 vulcan for it's new power lol

 

Maybe. Tanki does not seem to be good at marketing. But since players can always leave its not a very smart long-term strategy. It's better to make as many happy as possible.

 

I go the new Vulcan and plan on sticking with it. The change to horizontal tracking was the key not the firepower for me. All of a sudden vulcan+wasp equaled fun. I expect hit and run will still be fun.

Edited December 1, 2016 by LittleWillie

[LittleWillie 3,199]

1. Don't worry, Vulcan will be re-buffed in a month or so.

 

I can't stress this enough:  Do not buy equipment based on how powerful it is, as you will be constantly forced to re-buy and things will be moved around. Buy equipment based on how you like it's playstyle and stick with it regardless of nerfs or buffs.  I have chosen Freeze to stick with and I will use it however it is nerfed or buffed.  And I will not be tempted to buy any other turrets until I have m4'd or near m4'd it. (except railgun later for xp/bp and other stuff, but I already plan on doing that.)

 

 

It is key to success in this game to have a well-planned and laid-out buying plan. Ex "I will get rail m2, then Minotaur, then save up for m3 kit, etc." and avoid "impulse buying" based on how OP or "cool" a turret currently is, so you don't find time and time again yourself cheated out of crystals, disappointed, and frustrated.

Amen. Perhaps the entire new-user guide boiled down to its essence.

[r_TNK121 6]

On one of my main accounts I got a kit with Freeze just because I liked the updated numbers. If I knew about this "tweak", I would've waited and maybe get something else.

 

Please stop doing this.

 

If you want to balance the game give us at least 6 months of warning or do small incremental changes in this time frame with the warning.

 

Or don't worry too much about balance and let the economy play a role in balancing by making the most preferred turret incrementally expensive and the least favorite turrets cheaper.

 

The Continue button is a good idea, just let it stay for longer so we can check the stats.

Edited December 1, 2016 by r_TNK121

[misafeco 713]

typical response from a guy with Vulcan and titan as a main combo...i hope you enjoy the vulcan now ! :D :lol: :D :lol: :D

I will probably leave TO so I won't enjoy the new Vulcan. But thanks anyway.