Update 428 — Parameter tweaks and more

[misafeco 713]

look, let's not play games here, you have Vuclan as main wapon, you account is made after the rebalance (after Vulcan was made OP) so my point still stands, and one more thing, this balance is good cause we all tired of the vulcan wars we've seen these days...don't get me wrong, i'm good with vulcan, i just don't like it that's all, and i'm happy it's not OP anymore...cause we won't see it that much in battles  :D 

Wrong. My forum account was made on Oct 19. I play this game since mid September. I didn't even know there was a rebalance until now.

It makes no sense that they boost Vulcan by 10% then nerf it by 25%. This is not about balance, you can admit it.

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

and about isida, we don't want it to have strong demmage again, isida players should HEAL, not kill, if they want to kill players, there are other wapons for that, like fire, twins, smoky...

 

Let's pretend I'm at the rank where I see only M3+.

Now let's say Isida is my only M3 turret.

Now let's say I get two of my missions as "Destroy 50 tanks" and "Gain 300xp in DM".

 

Is my "Healing" tank gonna help me much here?  How much xp will my turret get me "Healing" in DM?

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Let's pretend I'm at the rank where I see only M3+.

Now let's say Isida is my only M3 turret.

Now let's say I get two of my missions as "Destroy 50 tanks" and "Gain 300xp in DM".

 

Is my "Healing" tank gonna help me much here?  How much xp will my turret get me "Healing" in DM?

Isida SHOULD have healing as it's primary focus so naturally those missions will be harder. However, it needs at least some self-heal back so it can compete, especially in DM.

[falcosenna1 8,320]

Yeeah, Vulcan's damage has been reduced. :D 

[wolverine848 13,097]

Isida SHOULD have healing as it's primary focus so naturally those missions will be harder. However, it needs at least some self-heal back so it can compete, especially in DM.

I don't disagree. 50% was too much.

 

But going down to 10% is a failed experiment.  Why they do such drastic modifications is beyond me.

Why not try 30% or 25% and see how it goes.

Another tweak of 5% later on to correct - not a big deal.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

I don't disagree. 50% was too much.

 

But going down to 10% is a failed experiment.  Why they do such drastic modifications is beyond me.

Why not try 30% or 25% and see how it goes.

Another tweak of 5% later on to correct - not a big deal.

25% makes sense, because on drugs you reach the previous 50%.

[r_TNK121 6]

Isida is a weapon not a repair kit.

 

Healing range should be shorter so damage range can be increased and maybe make healing more energy consuming than damage too. Just increase self heal to 20% so it can have a decent special attribute when attacking.

 

I use Isida when needed, but I hate Isidas healing other tanks from a safe distance.

Edited December 2, 2016 by r_TNK121

[LittleWillie 3,199]

That's the problem. I will never use Firebird because it's boring to me, even if it'd become the most OP turret.

I started an account to use FIrebird because as a new player I wanted to see if the inexpensive  Crystal option was possible in the game. And the Firebird definitely led t to epic slaughters. But overall it was sora repetitive. I got an Isida on a one-day sale and slowly converted to it full time. SO much mor run w/Isida.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

25% makes sense, because on drugs you reach the previous 50%.

Which is what

 

Isida is a weapon not a repair kit.

 

Healing range should be shorter so damage range can be increased and maybe make healing more energy consuming than damage too. Just increase self heal to 20% so it can have a decent special attribute when attacking.

 

I use Isida when needed, but I hate Isidas healing other tanks from a safe distance.

 

Healing range should be shorter so damage range can be longer?  Healing shuld be less efficient that doing damage,  All to return the self-heal.

 

Like hell. What terrible ideas..SMH. Flabbergasted.

 

I just played a game on a Russian server so no talking//// teamwork by instinct and hive-mind onlky.. No drugs AT ALL. Zone map, CTF. I was going nuts keeping my ea, up and shooting.  We were all Hornets except on Hunter.  The otehr team was wearing us down sowly. Then a couple Defenders jined our side ond one more kick ass hiornet/Isida. We both of us went to town in 20 more minutes of the most inteste battle, slowly tunred th tide.  AWESOME game, Tanki at its best.

 

But nooooooooo. "Healng is boring."  [eyeroll]

 

Fine. That;'s your opinion. then do not use the turret that heals. Simnple.

Edited December 2, 2016 by LittleWillie

[misafeco 713]

I started an account to use FIrebird because as a new player I wanted to see if the inexpensive  Crystal option was possible in the game. And the Firebird definitely led t to epic slaughters. But overall it was sora repetitive. I got an Isida on a one-day sale and slowly converted to it full time. SO much mor run w/Isida.

Yeah, Vulcan is appealing to me because it's versatile. It rules midrange, does decent damage short-range despite the delay time and the slow turret rotating, and also can fight long-range though obviously the damage will be really low. Overheating, gyroscope and auto-aim are also cool and unique features. Of course more people will use it than the boring Smoky for example. If you want to make a turret more popular, make it more fun to use. Don't make it OP. Also don't make a tank UP if too many people use it, make other turrets more appealing instead. Ruining the balance to make an effect on popularity is wrong.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

OK, on the parameter tweaks. After one who day's worth of missions. (IOW after not much.)

 

My Isida/Hornet (both M2_8/50 or so) typical damage tic went up from around 103/207DD to 107.214DD. If forced to live with a bit more damage I will bear the burden. IOW this is a bit of fine tuning no Isida user will dislike.

 

 

My Wasp (m1_24/50) / Vulcan(m1_17/50) seemed OK in a DM and a CP-based Mission. I honestly did not notice too much difference yet but I did not pay too much. And I play a shoot-and-scoot game that most vulcans do not. So the overheat time will probalby impact my style more than the famage aspect. 

 

The bottom line was I finished my daily missions and said, "that was fun". Wasp/Vulcan=fun... so far.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Yeah, Vulcan is appealing to me because it's versatile. It rules midrange, does decent damage short-range despite the delay time and the slow turret rotating, and also can fight long-range though obviously the damage will be really low. Overheating, gyroscope and auto-aim are also cool and unique features. Of course more people will use it than the boring Smoky for example. If you want to make a turret more popular, make it more fun to use. Don't make it OP. Also don't make a tank UP if too many people use it, make other turrets more appealing instead. Ruining the balance to make an effect on popularity is wrong.

Heh was posting much the same thing at the same time. Yes I too fight my Vulcan at very short ranges too but there are days still where my steering muscles refuse to convert from more nrmal ifhgint styles. I reckon you know what I mean.

 

PS: Smoky is not so boring. :p

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

 

Which is why the 25% only applies to DM. 

[AverageDavelaar 89]

The rebalance cut it in half already. Have a heart.

Well thats not enough...

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Isida:

Just decouple self-healing from the DP.

 

then this would happen:

- selfheal could be 25%..50%, but damage could be lower

- so isidas could take care for themselfes more, which is needed as anyone aims them first

- still the damage is low, so it won't attack efficiently a group

- in DM it could still survive those little 1-1 showoffs on a crowded map, as the selfheal compensates for the low damage

 

So it would get following roles:

- healer that could help itself out; usefull in base and in attack support (heal the attakers)

- not usefull to attack alone

- competative in DM against single targets

- lost in DM vs multiple targets

 

this would sound balanced to me

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Hm.. Interesting. I never thought about it that way myself. But I'd say that devs do take into account map diversity and game mode popularity into consideration when making changes to game balance. If there are twice as many large maps than small maps, then they wouldn't try to reduce number of Railgun players or increase Isida players by deliberately making it OP/UP. It doesn't make sense. So, when they say balance, they don't actually mean exactly the same percentage of players using each equipment, but rather that none of the equipment is being discarded due to it being UP or the other way round (No equipment being overpopular due to its OP nature). Even here, some considerations have to be made. For example, Hornet is extremely popular despite not being OP but it does well as an all rounder. So, devs won't try to undermine it's abilities just because it's popular but only if it's parameters are making it much better than others in some way.

 

This is your assumption.

 

For Tanki's view, please feel free to search through the vlogs of the last 14 months and find the two vlogs, where the devs actually talk about their view of balance. Hazel talks there, and the guy that is now project manager of Tanki X (he talked about balance before his current assignment).

 

You can also try your assumption on the fact, that light hulls were slowed down.

I mean..

• have you ever used a Wasp M3 in a mixed-mode Legend's no-supply battle and felt.. constantly overpowered?
• Or do you know any XP/BP player that is happy about the sluggish snails they have to drive now? Same..

 

---

Good news are: The last vlog (from today) made me hope that they listen to the community. That's good as the players care more for balance of power, then for game diversity. I just wonder which community; as here in the English one I never read a single line of increasing Isidas damage.. most players asked for more selfhealing.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Which is why the 25% only applies to DM. 

Devs would never program stuff that way IMO. 

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Devs would never program stuff that way IMO. 

If there's one thing we've learned it's that we can never predict what the devs will do :P

 

Except sales after mess-ups. Lol.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

This is your assumption.

 

For Tanki's view, please feel free to search through the vlogs of the last 14 months and find the two vlogs, where the devs actually talk about their view of balance. Hazel talks there, and the guy that is now project manager of Tanki X (he talked about balance before his current assignment).

 

You can also try your assumption on the fact, that light hulls were slowed down.

I mean..

• have you ever used a Wasp M3 in a mixed-mode Legend's no-supply battle and felt.. constantly overpowered?
• Or do you know any XP/BP player that is happy about the sluggish snails they have to drive now? Same..

 

---

Good news are: The last vlog (from today) made me hope that they listen to the community. That's good as the players care more for balance of power, then for game diversity. I just wonder which community; as here in the English one I never read a single line of increasing Isidas damage.. most players asked for more selfhealing.

Did you see that guy's expression when he said the Isida nerf had to happen? Massive self-healing is not going to come back.

 

It is not going to come back for the same reason you want it to come back. Both he and you know that is a VERY POOWERFUL effect. Too powerful. You the player want too powerful. He the game designer does not.

 

Designers are the ones who get to dessign. Clearly they are going to compensate Isida by a different method ...ie  more damage.  Which directly addresses complaint that Isidas are underpowered in DM. 

 

Wolverine made a post which I hope I get the numbers riught.  The post was Freeze and Foire does something like 17% more DPS than Isida. This change adds 4% of that back. Added to that is the 10% the Isida heals back. 10% is not 0%. So we are talking about a rough 3% difference in damage utput in a simple head to head.

 

3%

 

All this angst over 3%. 

 

3% does not mean Isidas are utterly helpless in DM battles or otherwide\d ruined.  And that 3% buys so much utility in the 3 other formats.

 

Can we put this claim of helplessness to rest at last? 

Edited December 2, 2016 by LittleWillie

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

LittleWilly, I ask for something different

- I do not ask for massive self healing, that is doubled on DP as it was

- I ask for a better selfhealing then now, that is NOT doubled on DP

 

Isida was never overpowered in drug-free battles.

The problem was that an isida on DP was invincible. This has to be adressed, and not the selfhealing itself

[r_TNK121 6]

LittleWilly, I ask for something different

- I do not ask for massive self healing, that is doubled on DP as it was

- I ask for a better selfhealing then now, that is NOT doubled on DP

 

Isida was never overpowered in drug-free battles.

The problem was that an isida on DP was invincible. This has to be adressed, and not the selfhealing itself

That's a good idea, no double selfhealing with Double Damage, after all it's called Double Damage not Double Self Heal. Instead, at least 20% of selfheal.

 

I still would like shorter range for healing so it's more challenging and risky and longer for damage so it can compete with Fire and Freeze.

 

And after that maybe heal and damage should have equal HP/sec numbers with the difference that healing consumes energy faster.

 

What do you think?

[GeeVuh 1,647]

Did you see that guy's expression when he said the Isida nerf had to happen? Massive self-healing is not going to come back.

[austen_pierce 1,948]

LittleWilly, I ask for something different

- I do not ask for massive self healing, that is doubled on DP as it was

- I ask for a better selfhealing then now, that is NOT doubled on DP

 

Isida was never overpowered in drug-free battles.

The problem was that an isida on DP was invincible. This has to be adressed, and not the selfhealing itself

Isida on DP is invincible again. Saw a couple in battle yesterday. Sucked the life out of my M4 Viking in less than 2 seconds. I can't even turn my sluggish turret in that time.

 

On the other hand, this means Vampire_Medic, my Stinger alt, can come out of hiding!

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Isida on DP is invincible again. Saw a couple in battle yesterday. Sucked the life out of my M4 Viking in less than 2 seconds. I can't even turn my sluggish turret in that time.

 

On the other hand, this means Vampire_Medic, my Stinger alt, can come out of hiding!

Invincible again? It still does less damage than firebird or freeze.  Why is firebird or freeze on DP not invincible? And I think 2 seconds for a DP melee turret sounds balanced and about right for firebird and freeze (not sure about isida). In fact firebird and freeze on DP take almost exactly 2 seconds to take down a medium hull. That is perfectly balanced for DP.  I would even say the freeze effect and afterburn should be increased. Definitely the afterburn, firebird has nothing going for it and it is the weakest turret. Afterburn is a joke for the stock firebird.

 

That's a good idea, no double selfhealing with Double Damage, after all it's called Double Damage not Double Self Heal. Instead, at least 20% of selfheal.

 

I still would like shorter range for healing so it's more challenging and risky and longer for damage so it can compete with Fire and Freeze.

 

And after that maybe heal and damage should have equal HP/sec numbers with the difference that healing consumes energy faster.

 

What do you think?

Not quite, Isida needs to be a primarily healing turret.

 

I would give it more charge, a lock-on feature to 25 meters, and 25% self-heal in DMs. Then it is balanced.

Edited December 3, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[Viuva-Negra 21]

I don't like about decrease the damage and the time the Vulcan causes overheating. It is crazy when we have Vulcan M0 - the weakest weapon if we use the combo of Wasp. (Die soon)