completed Experiment: 1 weekend with reduced effects for supplies and modules

[Aunty_Entity 245]

 

Changing the turret is often no alternative, as a free player can only afford 1shortrange, 1midrange + 1 longrange turret (plus 2 hulls). What should he change to?

 

 

 

I too dislike 50% Unless you are effectively M4 its a bit like having a popgun.  However, It doesn't take a lot of weapon choice to work around it, so long as you are prepared to play in a fluid pattern.  Until recently the only m3's I had were Smoky and Thunder, with the backup an M2 rico.  These 3 could get you out of trouble about 90% of the time, the bigger question is... can you keep matching protections to the enemy, and are you choosing the best one for the battle.  I really only have 1 hull so there's not much choice there, but Viking is, for me at least the master of all it surveys. 

 

Soo make the most of what you have, change it up.  Be prepared to change when the enemy changes or new players arrive. Improvise, Adapt, and overcome. 

 

Aunty the semi retired.

[Aunty_Entity 245]

The Railgun M4 with High-caliber Ammo, it's deadly, even with Clay.

A good reason to play with alterations off... I always do..   That railgun is as they say, dynamite.  Plus the alterations are all over the place.  From weapon to weapon, Rail gets super damage while others get.... wait for it, a big fat nothing. 

 

Aunty the semi retired.

[Quincie 531]

Why all this hate against supplies ? I mean people only want them to be nerfed and reduced in power. Why does no one ever talk about making them last longer or do more work than they do right now. 

And the thing about modules is that we all pay crystals to upgrade the modules to high protection and the most played time is on the weekends, and when you worked your life off making the protections to give more and more resistance than they do. If you get all the resistance and not be able to use it when you are gonna play for 4-8 hours straight, what would you do ? it's like not being able to use something that you have right upon. A bit same goes with supplies.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Why all this hate against supplies ? I mean people only want them to be nerfed and reduced in power. Why does no one ever talk about making them last longer or do more work than they do right now. 

 

And the thing about modules is that we all pay crystals to upgrade the modules to high protection and the most played time is on the weekends, and when you worked your life off making the protections to give more and more resistance than they do. If you get all the resistance and not be able to use it when you are gonna play for 4-8 hours straight, what would you do ? it's like not being able to use something that you have right upon. A bit same goes with supplies.

It's all about balance.

 

imagine a DP would give enough power that a single hit from a Smoky, on which ever distance, would kill a Mammuth on DA and 50% Smoky protection. This may sound awesome for the smoky pilot - until it becomes boring. And it will feel massivefly inbalanced for everyone that was hit by it. Of course DA would be able to balance that out - but in fact you would be forced to use the DA all the time - and as everyone uses it you will be forced to use DP as well all the time. And all that would be used with the "right upon" if it's introduced by the devs. But this would still not help the gameplay.

 

This is simply not a funny game for many.

The current supply settings do not feel "balanced" for many, and the same goes for protections in M4 ranks.

I do not like to start a discussion about drugs here.. if you are interrested in that please search through the archived threads.

 

But I do think that a lower setting would be worth a try, as it would enable low-drug users and high-drug users to play togehter again, without beeing set too far apart in terms of battle power.

 

And I do think that 50% protections are effectively disabling a turret. No problem if you have alternatives.. but most players in M3/M4 ranks do not have a full garage. Still the game needs those players to participate. So why annoy them so much?

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

ps: of course people can play pro; but if you consider the economic effect of the mission update on those pro-only players, then you see why this argument does not work so well any more.

[Quincie 531]

It's all about balance.

 

imagine a DP would give enough power that a single hit from a Smoky, on which ever distance, would kill a Mammuth on DA and 50% Smoky protection. This may sound awesome for the smoky pilot - until it becomes boring. And it will feel massivefly inbalanced for everyone that was hit by it. Of course DA would be able to balance that out - but in fact you would be forced to use the DA all the time - and as everyone uses it you will be forced to use DP as well all the time. And all that would be used with the "right upon" if it's introduced by the devs. But this would still not help the gameplay.

 

This is simply not a funny game for many.

The current supply settings do not feel "balanced" for many, and the same goes for protections in M4 ranks.

I do not like to start a discussion about drugs here.. if you are interrested in that please search through the archived threads.

 

But I do think that a lower setting would be worth a try, as it would enable low-drug users and high-drug users to play togehter again, without beeing set too far apart in terms of battle power.

 

And I do think that 50% protections are effectively disabling a turret. No problem if you have alternatives.. but most players in M3/M4 ranks do not have a full garage. Still the game needs those players to participate. So why annoy them so much?

Well you're picturing this one sided here, Would the mammoth just stand there and do nothing ? Wouldn't it do something to do against the smoky ? like Move behind cover or shoot back ? And there could be a chance that the mammoth itself be a smoky. Here the situation is pretty balanced and it all goes down to the fact of "Skill" I do agree that some weapons can kill many hulls easily. I used to play wasp smoky all day and I faced a lot of problems with railgun killing me in 1Shot even when my wasp is M4 so I now started using my Prodigy LGC which gives me 49% of protection from railgun and I can balance the rest of the things out myself like facing others turrets like freeze and all. Here again the point is of skill. I use my combo at it's max advantage and try to get away as possible from my opponents by using my smoky's impact force and wasp's speed. So there's no real need to improvise a balance in the supplies system or even the protection system when all you need to do is find your weakness and overcome it. Just because you and many other player's cant doesn't mean you'll blame the game for making them *Unbalanced* or *OverPowered*. 

 

And talking about those who don't have M3/M4's at  the ranks. Well it's more of their own fault that they are not having their garage at the required state of playing. You can't expect to play M0 combo against M4s. Its like Keeping up. Keeping up with what's going on and making yourself more competitive. An example would be of Magnum and Striker. These turrets have been introduced not too long ago in the game and yet I rarely ever find people having protection against it. Found myself playing nice with striker and did my best to master it and now I take advantage of no one using the protection modules of Striker and magnum and do much more damage than most of the others. Like railgun is so common you'll see people use prodigy even in Island maps. Now here you need to use common sense and use something that can be efficiently used.

 

Basically blaming usage of supplies isn't the way to go. The one I mentioned above is.

[TakeAShower 300]

Protection modules are balanced. The only problem is that people seem to pick on Shafts, Railguns and Thunders (and sometimes Smokies as well). This is very annoying for players who use such weapons. I think you should be able to disable protection modules in pro battles.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Why all this hate against supplies ? I mean people only want them to be nerfed and reduced in power. Why does no one ever talk about making them last longer or do more work than they do right now. 

 

And the thing about modules is that we all pay crystals to upgrade the modules to high protection and the most played time is on the weekends, and when you worked your life off making the protections to give more and more resistance than they do. If you get all the resistance and not be able to use it when you are gonna play for 4-8 hours straight, what would you do ? it's like not being able to use something that you have right upon. A bit same goes with supplies.

Keeping supplies at current power - even if on short duration - is boring for many.  Spawn - get hit by DD rail/shaft - die. Respawn.

= quick deaths.  If your tank is destroyed every 30-60 seconds there's no strategy and planning.

 

Trying supplies at +50% power is a good idea.  They would still give a significant advantage - way more than going from M3 to M4.

[railguniz4noobz 2,394]

Well you're picturing this one sided here, Would the mammoth just stand there and do nothing ? Wouldn't it do something to do against the smoky ? like Move behind cover or shoot back ? And there could be a chance that the mammoth itself be a smoky. Here the situation is pretty balanced and it all goes down to the fact of "Skill" I do agree that some weapons can kill many hulls easily. I used to play wasp smoky all day and I faced a lot of problems with railgun killing me in 1Shot even when my wasp is M4 so I now started using my Prodigy LGC which gives me 49% of protection from railgun and I can balance the rest of the things out myself like facing others turrets like freeze and all. Here again the point is of skill. I use my combo at it's max advantage and try to get away as possible from my opponents by using my smoky's impact force and wasp's speed. So there's no real need to improvise a balance in the supplies system or even the protection system when all you need to do is find your weakness and overcome it. Just because you and many other player's cant doesn't mean you'll blame the game for making them *Unbalanced* or *OverPowered*. 

 

And talking about those who don't have M3/M4's at  the ranks. Well it's more of their own fault that they are not having their garage at the required state of playing. You can't expect to play M0 combo against M4s. Its like Keeping up. Keeping up with what's going on and making yourself more competitive. An example would be of Magnum and Striker. These turrets have been introduced not too long ago in the game and yet I rarely ever find people having protection against it. Found myself playing nice with striker and did my best to master it and now I take advantage of no one using the protection modules of Striker and magnum and do much more damage than most of the others. Like railgun is so common you'll see people use prodigy even in Island maps. Now here you need to use common sense and use something that can be efficiently used.

 

Basically blaming usage of supplies isn't the way to go. The one I mentioned above is.

So anyone who thinks supplies should be nerfed just needs to git gud? The reason buyers are so OP is because everyone that doesnt buy is a noob? If if dp lets smoky kill everything in 1 shot, it would still be balanced because everyone would use dp?

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

 

...

What you call "one sided" was an example of the principle that "overpowerness is bad for the game, even if legal by game rules". And this is what the whole experiment is about: making the most powerfull things less powerfull, and see if the game is maybe even more fun then today.

 

In the example with the OP smoky, everyone in drug battles would start to use a Smoky (for obvious reasons) and everyone would use only Wasp or Hornet, and noone would purchase modules or MUs - only DPs. Even RKs would be useless. Imagine that and see, that a too dominating overpowerness it a bad thing for the fun in a game.

But overpowerness exists in two flavours: to deal damage, and to withstand damage -> that's why I talk about modules as well. While a DP (today) doubles your damage, a 50% module doubles your active time vs specific turrets (and makes them useless).

 

 

Skill helps individual players, but does not help the game overall. If the game makes no fun to average skilled players, then Tanki goes bankrupt (less overall players -> less entertainment -> less potential buyers -> less money). So if you and I like it or not.. the game has to be fun for less skilled players too.

I appriciate that you have enough skill to circumvent most of the tricky situations in drug battles, while you use roughly 100 supplies per hour by yourself. And this is perfectly fine, as long as players that do like to play without drugs have the option to do so. But their only option to do so, is to let loose an important share of their income - daily missions - completely.

 

 

Btw, a garage with 1 M4 hull and 1 M4 turret costs 1.4 Mio - this is more then the average income of players from recruit to Legend, if they can not play daily missions. If they own only one M4 turret, there is not much point in changing that turret if they face a team of M3+ modules. If you purchase on discounts you can have 2x M4 hulls and 2x M4 turrets. This does not give you much to chose from if you face 50% modules.

 

 

As buyers need motivated free players to compete with (else the game feels empty and boring) there should be a way to make the battles with lower powered and more powered tanks better for both sides. I think the settings of the experiment could work that out (although they have to be tweaked, as I defined the values before the last big rebalance and alterations ..)

[Quincie 531]

...

Well than if modules makes the use of DP useless then what's the problem why decrease supplies's effectiveness less. 

 

I agree too much of overpowerness is bad, but is it really overpowerness when everyone is using the turret ? And again people don't just go for the obvious turrets that do a lot of damage, like Shaft can do Damage as high to kill a Mammoth M4 in one shot, Yet it's probably like the least used turret in the game. Why that? why not use Shaft when it's so OP. Here comes the range of map. Smoky's damage decreases over range (yes I do know critical damage stays same) But hitting big only once in 5 Shots doesn't categorize it as OP. Tbh OP is something that you have problems facing, I do not ever think any turret is OP cause with these many years of Experience I know how to counter every turret just by experience and I didn't want to learn it my self it just happened on it's own. 

 

Sharing their income - daily missions - completely. 

I don't any problem doing this ? You earned it now what are you gonna do with it except using ? Would you just let it rust in your garage till you die and let it rust doing Nothing at all ? It's like earning a $Billion and using none at all till the time you die. That's the point at some point you gotta start using it. Or else it's just going to like "Nowhere" cause you got it. Still you ain't using it. Well if you didn't want to use it then why do so much work maybe even use your crystals ?

 

1.4M May look a lot to you, But when you realise that there's discounts, it's really nothing. And realistically no one ever asked you to do the speed up. I made a couple upgrades on my thunder and they got from 11/20 to 15/20 and I didn't ever realize. Because when you don't speed up. The time the turret is taking to upgrade you earn for the next upgrade and the one you just did. So you don't feel any weight upon yourself in anyway. It's just a matter of how you put your terms to it.

You've got an M4 Turret now and would you really be sad if they enemy team is using 50% modules? I mean it's obvious everyone uses modules in the game and some have it 50% upgraded. Yes you just missed it "Some players" Not everyone of the opponent team is gonna have 50% protection against you and even so it ain't like your'e not gonna be able to kill them. You're but it might just take a bit longer than normal. And as you yourself mentioned. Using DP cancles out the 50% resistance of the enemy team. So that'd make it even more easier.

 

What's the difference if I am a buyer or not ? Buyer's can only achieve things that can be used by all the other tanker's too. Buyer's don't get any type of extra bonus on their damage or on their modules or supplies. Free players too can do this. I agree that buyer's get things easily as they buy with money to kill the time they would've spent working for what they bought. But at some point. There's gonna be no need of buying now would it? At some point they'd have everything they want and for buyer's it be pretty easy. And hence the game will be boring for them as there is no other target left for them to conquer. As for free player's they get the joy of "farming". It just makes the a point for them to still play the game.

[wolverine848 13,097]

What's the difference if I am a buyer or not ? Buyer's can only achieve things that can be used by all the other tanker's too. Buyer's don't get any type of extra bonus on their damage or on their modules or supplies. Free players too can do this. I agree that buyer's get things easily as they buy with money to kill the time they would've spent working for what they bought.

 

But at some point. There's gonna be no need of buying now would it? At some point they'd have everything they want and for buyer's it be pretty easy. And hence the game will be boring for them as there is no other target left for them to conquer. As for free player's they get the joy of "farming". It just makes the a point for them to still play the game.

1) Below Gizmo buyers have a giant advantage just on equipment alone. They get a mid-level what non-buyers get at upper level = Disparity.

 

Buyers can afford to MU anything they want, while non-buyers need to save for the next M-level.

Buyers will have more types of turrets at each stage, so if they run into enemy with protection, they can easily switch and nullify that one protection module the non-buyer might have

Buyers will likely have many protection modules that are upgraded a lot vs non-buyers who likely don't even have every turret covered until Gizmo, and even then the modules are closer to stock than they are to 50%.

 

2) "Joy of farming"... what?  :huh:

     Sure those peasants non-buyers can toil in the field and play in game so they can be cannon-fodder for the aristocracy buyers.

 

All this is moot.  Some players just find Double-Damage all-the-time boring.  If it was +50% instead of +100% it would be... 50% less boring.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

..

I find it somehow hard to talk to you, because either you do not understand what I mean, or I do not understand what you answer :)

 

 

Anyways, for your shaft example -> overpowerness is not only about damage, it is more about damage per minute. BTW shaft was given that huge damage capability _after_ people stipped using it to lure them into using it more again.

 

Smoky: I never said Smoky is OP. I made up an example of an ovverpowered smoky to explain my point.

 

Sharing their income:

Sorry, I do not get at all what you mean by that paragraph.

 

"1.4M May look a lot to you, But when you realise that there's discounts, it's really nothing. And realistically no one ever asked you to do the speed up."

My example with 1xM4hull+turret contained no speed ups. And my example with 2x M4 turrets/hulls already contained discounts. 50% discounts through all of the purchases, while 50% are rare. Just to point out how much that is.

 

@killing a tank with a strong module takes "a bit longer then normal"

a 50% module doubles the survival time. This is twice as long (or in other words, he can kill me twice, while I can kill him once).

a 25% module (as proposed by me) increases the kill time by 33%. This is more like "a bit longer then normal".

 

"what's the difference if I am a buyer or not"

..did I ever blame you for that?

All I wrote is that buyers finance the game (thanks for that) and that those buyers need free players to compete against. So it's a good choice to take care of the interests of free players, because -  well I already explained that.

[Lankbouv 6,347]

"inexperienced Tanki player suggests idea to further weaken the supplies he doesn't know how to use, in line with TO's aim to reduce the power of supplies"

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

"inexperienced Tanki player suggests idea to further weaken the supplies he doesn't know how to use, in line with TO's aim to reduce the power of supplies"

 

nice story line, although it has some bugs.

 

Let me correct it:

Player with 3Mio xp on his legend + his gismo account combined, listened to players complaints, did some maths and came up with a new supply/module balance proposal (a long time before the was asked to become a helper).

This because a balanced game is more fun then an inbalanced one.. and this in order to have this game prevail longer on the market, as he likes the game.

[Lankbouv 6,347]

nice story line, although it has some bugs.

 

Let me correct it:

Player with 3Mio xp on his legend + his gismo account combined, listened to players complaints, did some maths and came up with a new supply/module balance proposal (a long time before the was asked to become a helper).

This because a balanced game is more fun then an inbalanced one.. and this in order to have this game prevail longer on the market, as he likes the game.

lol, 3 mil is just as inexperienced as 1.4 mil, and there are many aspects of the game you do not understand, if you did you would realise your suggestion is bad.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

lol, 3 mil is just as inexperienced as 1.4 mil, and there are many aspects of the game you do not understand, if you did you would realise your suggestion is bad.

if you say so.

Feel free to enlighten us.

[Lankbouv 6,347]

if you say so.

Feel free to enlighten us.

No need, this game is aimed towards "inexperienced" players, who play casually, or young children who play "seriously", but are actually incapable. My opinion is for the good of the elite players, for the average noob is what is important, not what is good for the elites.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

No need, this game is aimed towards "inexperienced" players, who play casually, or young children who play "seriously", but are actually incapable. My opinion is for the good of the elite players, for the average noob is what is important, not what is good for the elites.

I agree that the game should be fit to the average player, and not only to high classed elites.

And.. if I follow your post, you actually say that my proposal does serve the "average player", and is therefore good for the majority of the players around. Thanks for the positive feedback :)

[wolverine848 13,097]

lol, 3 mil is just as inexperienced as 1.4 mil, and there are many aspects of the game you do not understand, if you did you would realise your suggestion is bad.

Now you just sound like you're trolling.

[Lankbouv 6,347]

I agree that the game should be fit to the average player, and not only to high classed elites.

And.. if I follow your post, you actually say that my proposal does serve the "average player", and is therefore good for the majority of the players around. Thanks for the positive feedback :)

No, because I disagree with the aim) And this aim will ultimately destroy the game, as evidence by the decrease in intelligent conversations on the forum, decrease in intelligent players and decrease in TO's net income.

[wolverine848 13,097]

lol, 3 mil is just as inexperienced as 1.4 mil, and there are many aspects of the game you do not understand, if you did you would realise your suggestion is bad.

I have to agree with ... v ... as evidenced by ^ ... since 3M is definitely NOT the same as 1.4M.  It's actually more than double. B)

 

as evidence but the decrease in intelligent conversations on the forum,

[Lankbouv 6,347]

Yes very smart, but players with 1.4 mil are very similar to those with 3 mil. I have 6,000,000, and I've played with many many players, and generally once a player reaches 4,000,000 they change into different kinds of players.  Of course this is "in general", not for every person.

 

Again, you're very quick to point a finger to try and get some laughs, but the above statement has grounding not only empirically but also logically.  At some point in the game of TO, which is very repetitive, players get bored and therefore develop or improve their playing styles, this "generally" happens at 4,000,000.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Yes very smart, but players with 1.4 mil are very similar to those with 3 mil. I have 6,000,000, and I've played with many many players, and generally once a player reaches 4,000,000 they change into different kinds of players.  Of course this is "in general", not for every person.

 

Again, you're very quick to point a finger to try and get some laughs, but the above statement has grounding not only empirically but also logically.  At some point in the game of TO, which is very repetitive, players get bored and therefore develop or improve their playing styles, this "generally" happens at 4,000,000.

In YOUR OPINION you've come to the conclusion 4M xp is a threshold, and anyone below that is "inexperienced"?

 

WOW. :blink:

[Lankbouv 6,347]

In YOUR OPINION you've come to the conclusion 4M xp is a threshold, and anyone below that is "inexperienced"?

 

WOW. :blink:

Ironically, in my experience, that has been the case. Also, stating "wow" is a strange way to debate, it either implies that you can't rebut what I'm saying or you agree, the latter of course is preferable.