Freeze, overpowered?

[MonkeyMagic 89]

Whats your thoughts on Freeze being overpowered? I think its so obviously overpowered its unreal. M3 is just a joke, when drugged it can kill most tanks in a fraction of a second, The freeze effect doesnt make a bit of difference as you are dead that quick anyway. The rate of energy drain is overpowered, however, combined with the effect of the freeze its so overpowered its crazy. Also, the freeze is the only 'high end' weapon to target multiple enemies.

 

Another point. The freeze is a pretty cheap gun to buy - 22250 for an M3, in comparison to say 26650 for a Richo M3.

 

Most top players use M3 freeze. In combination with an M3 Mammoth drugged up, its practically unstoppable. Games often lead to a mass frozen pile up with two or more drugged up mammoths with freeze at the center. The games become very boring and predictable. So overpowered is the Freeze that many times I have been playing in games and a player has started the game with another gun and due to losing the game has gone to the garage and equipped the good old M3 freeze! Boring!

 

Im sure some of you will disagree..... however the only option is to do as many others have and get that M3 Freeze for yourself and so continue with making the game more boring. Medium and short map games are owned by Freeze tanks.

 

So we have a massively overpowered gun. Freeze effect and multiple target capability. Its a weapon thats spoiling the game in its current state. I like the idea of the freeze, and its a good part of the game. But its way way too strong and needs another reduction.

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

Seriously, M3 Thunder, M3 Freeze and M3 Ricochet :!: All of them are over powered. Freeze is just used too much in the CTF games at Silence. :roll:

 

And by the way, this is not the first "Freeze is OP" Thread. So people..

 

M3 Freeze = 32 DPS (Damage per second)

Attacks for 8.33 Seconds = 266.56 Damage per refil (66 HP more than an M3 Mammoth)

Refills in 5 seconds.

 

Freezing effect was nerfed some time ago, it doesn't freeze as much as it did. In fact, it doesnt freeze at all when compared to the older one. M3 Freeze, Normally found in Silence, Sandbox, Iran on a Viking or Mammoth. IMHO, what ever I do when I see a freeze is either I back off and attack from a distance, or mine the place to hell. :D

 

I'll make a topic with all the damage per second of the tier 2 guns, some other time.

 

DO NOT GO OFF-TOPIC

[NoblePlatOne 19]

I have been arguing this point ever since Freeze came out. To me, this type of weapon is a death-threat to Tanki. As you point out, it is the weapon of choice in high ranking games. Variety of weapons is minimal. Not only that, since future weapons need to be more exciting and powerful to attract interest and attention to them, try to imagine how over-powered (and expensive) those weapons will have to be. I have seen other online games price themselves out of existence by not managing their supplies well. Tanki is headed down that same path; the developers either have not recognized this, or foolishly don't think history will repeat itself.

[MonkeyMagic 89]

Seriously, M3 Thunder, M3 Freeze and M3 Ricochet :!: All of them are over powered. Freeze is just used too much in the CTF games at Silence. :roll:

 

And by the way, this is not the first "Freeze is OP" Thread. So people..

 

--Reserved Space-- :mrgreen:

 

 

DO NOT GO OFF-TOPIC

 

i didnt realize there were other threads on the subject. Shame on me :evil: Perhaps the others didnt have a poll :wink:

 

agree about richo and thunder O.P also, however freeze targets multiple tanks so has the added bonus when in close combat. I guess you could argue that thunder can damage multiple targets too, but its not the same as charging into a group and freezing them all....

 

I think they developers got the concept of the freeze all wrong. i would like to see a 60-70% reduction in damage on freeze (perhaps the freeze effect could be made higher). The weapon should be used to primarily freeze your opponent, not kill them. This would then require a more team effort. The freeze immobilizes the opposition and other team mates do the killing. This is to me what freeze should function like. It would make freeze a truly team orientated weapon, rather than a solo flag raider.

[Mokpama_rapra 5]

No, no tweaks for Freeze and lowering the power.

If you are desperate - call for help from a teammate with a Firebird to unfreeze you :D

 

Yeah, the Firebird and Freeze mutually must nullify their action, thus putting the useless at higher levels Firebird back in action - thoughts for the developers to consider.

[skitee 555]

Looking at the stats, Freeze does 32 hp/sec at m3 and richochet does 24-32 hp/sec, on average, 28, at m3. This four hp/sec difference means that richochet is actually very close to freeze damagewise. Richo has way more range, and a longer consumption. Freeze has freezing ability, which is better than bouncing of walls. As a result, they are very equal weapons, but richochet is better. Richochet is more expensive, so it is worse that way and that equals the two weapons. My point: if freeze is OP'd, richochet is too. But yet you say richochet isn't yet freeze is. That, imo, isn't very accurate.

[MonkeyMagic 89]

Looking at the stats' date=' Freeze does 32 hp/sec at m3 and richochet does 24-32 hp/sec, on average, 28, at m3. This four hp/sec difference means that richochet is actually very close to freeze damagewise. Richo has way more range, and a longer consumption. Freeze has freezing ability, which is better than bouncing of walls. As a result, they are very equal weapons, but richochet is better. Richochet is more expensive, so it is worse that way and that equals the two weapons. My point: if freeze is OP'd, richochet is too. But yet you say richochet isn't yet freeze is. That, imo, isn't very accurate.[/quote']

 

it was said that richo is OP also..... one point you are missing about freeze v richo is that freeze targets multiple enemies at once - making it far far stronger in medium/short maps. that was my original point. i dont use freeze so cant comment on the consumption from experience. i drive a mammoth M2 and use an M2 richo. If i see an m2 freeze and have chance to fire a few shots at him before he gets me in range then its a pretty fair fight, i guess the same van be said with M3 freeze v richo. however in a team game where i may be supported by a couple of isidas, once the freeze is in range of me he very often wipes out my support as the range on the freeze is about 2 times(?) that of isida. Back to the multiple targeting ability of the freeze here - i have only been able to target the freeze - while he has damaged me and wiped out my support. therefore in a team game, on a short/med map, freeze is by far the stronger of the two.

 

Also, i bet all those voting that freeze is not O.P, drive a nice freeze :P

 

Loathed to do it but when T2 comes out im trading in for M# mammoth and will be driving an M3 freeze on top of that. boring :roll:

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

In my humble opinion, Ricochet is better than Freeze, and I'd say that you don't know anything about the various pros and cons of it. The best thing is, that ricochet is useless if you don't use the camera controls. As with Freeze, It ain't much of a problem if you compare it with another Tier 2 weapon with the same upgrade.

 

I have played M3 Rail vs M3 Freeze, freeze wins. But every time I did an M2 Thunder vs M3 freeze on an M3 viking the Thunder won over the freeze just because of the increased range. The main thing that you said.

 

However in a team game where i may be supported by a couple of isidas' date=' once the freeze is in range of me he very often wipes out my support as the range on the freeze is about 2 times(?) that of isida. Back to the multiple targeting ability of the freeze here - i have only been able to target the freeze - while he has damaged me and wiped out my support.[/quote']

 

Tell those Isida' to learn something, that has never happened to me. I heal the target and stay alive myself, my average ratio with an m3 Isida is always over 1. The main thing is that M3 freeze acts the same as an M3 firebird, the only addition is the freeze effect and to deal with that, you are given Splash damage. And the ability to shoot enemies even before they see you.

 

Also' date=' i bet all those voting that freeze is not O.P, drive a nice freeze.[/quote']

 

You sure with that? Because I don't drive a freeze. Instead, I pity its range.

 

one point you are missing about freeze v richo is that freeze targets multiple enemies at once

 

One point you are missing about Ricochet is that you can attack enemies that are hiding, isn't that OP also?

 

Freeze has freezing ability' date=' which is better than bouncing of walls.[/quote']

 

I'm pretty sad that only a few people know how to use that ability wisely. And If you would ask me that ability is really over powered because I use it nearly all the time. Have you ever played a Fort Knox III with a Ricochet? However people said that Freeze is the best at that map. Iran with Freeze is good. But if you use Rico's bouncing ability over there it is purely over powered.

 

Another point. The freeze is a pretty cheap gun to buy - 22250 for an M3' date=' in comparison to say 26650 for a Richo M3. [/quote']

 

You do realize that I'm laughing out loud after reading that...

 

Most top players use M3 freeze. In combination with an M3 Mammoth drugged up

 

Negative. Top players will NEVER use drugs without a good reason. Its basically "unfair" for the lower ranking players.

 

Medium and short map games are owned by Freeze tanks.

 

Join long-range games then, and if you see a freeze/hornet in it, get ready to get owned by a "real pro".

 

Final Conclusion, Freeze is not over powered for me. :) Kinda keep on the discussion. eh?

[skitee 555]

^everything agreed, except the one about higher rating/drugging and freezing ability/bouncing off walls. All the uber druggers I have viewed, 75% are higher rating.

 

And freezing ability is prooooo if used well, i find it hard to imagine bouncing ability used to better extent.

[MonkeyMagic 89]

quote=koolwalky]In my humble opinion, Ricochet is better than Freeze, and I'd say that you don't know anything about the various pros and cons of it. The best thing is, that ricochet is useless if you don't use the camera controls. As with Freeze, It ain't much of a problem if you compare it with another Tier 2 weapon with the same upgrade.

 

I have played M3 Rail vs M3 Freeze, freeze wins. But every time I did an M2 Thunder vs M3 freeze on an M3 viking the Thunder won over the freeze just because of the increased range. The main thing that you said.

 

First off all I am talking about short/med maps. Secondly, range doesnt come into it when you have your 'back to the wall' defending a rush on the flag. In your perfect world scenario, you would have plenty of range to see the freeze before he gets to you. What will your range do for you when you have just respawned in the middle of a freeze and other units? Same as the ability to bounce off walls - absolutely nothing. And i love the fact that you say that you beat freeze 'every time'.

 

However in a team game where i may be supported by a couple of isidas' date=' once the freeze is in range of me he very often wipes out my support as the range on the freeze is about 2 times(?) that of isida. Back to the multiple targeting ability of the freeze here - i have only been able to target the freeze - while he has damaged me and wiped out my support.[/quote']

 

Tell those Isida' to learn something, that has never happened to me. I heal the target and stay alive myself, my average ratio with an m3 Isida is always over 1. The main thing is that M3 freeze acts the same as an M3 firebird, the only addition is the freeze effect and to deal with that, you are given Splash damage. And the ability to shoot enemies even before they see you.

Again, as mentioned above - sometimes when defending the flag there is nowhere for the isidas to back away to, either because of the restraints of the map, or due to other players blocking in an attempt to defend the flag. but I guess this never happens to you?

 

Also' date=' i bet all those voting that freeze is not O.P, drive a nice freeze.[/quote']

 

You sure with that? Because I don't drive a freeze. Instead, I pity its range.

 

Again, refer to my post above, regarding the range not being a benefit when defending the flag.

 

one point you are missing about freeze v richo is that freeze targets multiple enemies at once

 

One point you are missing about Ricochet is that you can attack enemies that are hiding, isn't that OP also?

Never said that richo wasnt OP, just that on short/med maps where range isnt a bonus, freeze is far more OP.

 

Freeze has freezing ability' date=' which is better than bouncing of walls.[/quote']

 

I'm pretty sad that only a few people know how to use that ability wisely. And If you would ask me that ability is really over powered because I use it nearly all the time. Have you ever played a Fort Knox III with a Ricochet? However people said that Freeze is the best at that map. Iran with Freeze is good. But if you use Rico's bouncing ability over there it is purely over powered.

I agree that an important part of using richo effectively, is with the use of the camera view. As for FKIII, again if you are back defending the flag against an attack, the ability to bounce off walls is irrelevant. You are basically down to a straight firing cannon. Freeze will PWN you every time.

 

Another point. The freeze is a pretty cheap gun to buy - 22250 for an M3' date=' in comparison to say 26650 for a Richo M3. [/quote']

 

You do realize that I'm laughing out loud after reading that...

No, Care to elaborate why?

 

Most top players use M3 freeze. In combination with an M3 Mammoth drugged up

 

Negative. Top players will NEVER use drugs without a good reason. Its basically "unfair" for the lower ranking players.

You do realize that I AM laughing out loud after reading that...

 

Medium and short map games are owned by Freeze tanks.

 

Join long-range games then, and if you see a freeze/hornet in it, get ready to get owned by a "real pro".

So, you, being a 'real pro' would kill the freeze every time (as mentioned above), where as us mere mortals would get PWNed. Good point, well made.

 

Final Conclusion, Freeze is not over powered for me. :) Kinda keep on the discussion. eh?

 

In your perfect world senario, richo is placed in a great position ready to pick off the unsuspecting freeze as he appears over the horizon. You are that much of a great pro that you never respawn in the middle of a mass battle at the flag, and even if you did you would kill that freeze 'every time'. I take it you never get blocked by other players either, no one ever gets in the way of your shots and you can turn water into wine?

 

BTW i will be laughing out loud for a long time over the drugging comment.

[skitee 555]

^a lot of your points are to do with camping freezes. Camping freezes are annoying, but no sensible freeze camps. Honestly.

 

When you are backs-to-walls defending a flag, get some teammates. Skilled teams defeat one freeze. Get skill and you defeat freezes. Honestly. Without teams, then obviously a freeze wins, with the damage advantage it has. My point above was that it doesn't have too much of a damage advantage (4 hp/sec is not much when richo has its range advantage).

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

lawl... I'm a little bit shocked at the "up against the wall" part. No quoting this time, I don't have any time... :oops:

 

Last time I checked you don't have to on top of the flag like a Sitting duck, thats the job for a close range fight not for a thunder or ricochet. If my Perfect world scenario contains my own experiences then here is something for your kind information.

 

Why the heck are you camping in the path of an M3 freeze? I'm pretty sure that you would deal more damage from far away.

 

If my perfect world scenario consists of the test server, then you may know that it contains M3 mammoths and M3 thunders everywhere. The freezes are rare to find over there.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

From now on, I'd save a screenshot every single time I play with an M3 freeze... You guys need to learn something on team games.

 

"Teamwork is the only thing that can lead you to victory" :roll:

 

As for the drugging part. I'm not sure why? Didn't you ever play with a bunch of good players? I guess NO. :evil:

 

 

 

 

By the way, can I get a map name? What do you call medium/short range? Silence? Island? Düsseldorf? :mrgreen:

[MonkeyMagic 89]

^a lot of your points are to do with camping freezes. Camping freezes are annoying, but no sensible freeze camps. Honestly.

 

When you are backs-to-walls defending a flag, get some teammates. Skilled teams defeat one freeze. Get skill and you defeat freezes. Honestly. Without teams, then obviously a freeze wins, with the damage advantage it has. My point above was that it doesn't have too much of a damage advantage (4 hp/sec is not much when richo has its range advantage).

 

Your point about the damage advantage is a fair one. My whole point about Freeze being OP is that when you play a CTF game it inevitably (and predictably) end up with two or more freezes rushing the flag supported by a few other units (usually a couple of isidas). Unless you have at least one freeze on your side, then its very hard to stop. So what you end up with is a freeze battle/mass pile up around the flag, or at bottle necks in the map.

 

We all have our views on what guns are OP. But the fact is the CTF games often end up as described above. Very predictable, repetitive and boring.

 

Obviously having a good team makes a massive difference. But i am generally talking about random games. Something I am looking forward to in T2 is the ability to have clan wars and teams. At the moment, here are a lot of 'clans' that turn up in games playing as a team against an unorganized random opposition.

[MonkeyMagic 89]

lawl... I'm a little bit shocked at the "up against the wall" part. No quoting this time, I don't have any time... :oops:

 

Last time I checked you don't have to on top of the flag like a Sitting duck, thats the job for a close range fight not for a thunder or ricochet. If my Perfect world scenario contains my own experiences then here is something for your kind information.

 

Why the heck are you camping in the path of an M3 freeze? I'm pretty sure that you would deal more damage from far away.

 

If my perfect world scenario consists of the test server, then you may know that it contains M3 mammoths and M3 thunders everywhere. The freezes are rare to find over there.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

From now on, I'd save a screenshot every single time I play with an M3 freeze... You guys need to learn something on team games.

 

"Teamwork is the only thing that can lead you to victory" :roll:

 

As for the drugging part. I'm not sure why? Didn't you ever play with a bunch of good players? I guess NO. :evil:

 

 

 

 

By the way, can I get a map name? What do you call medium/short range? Silence? Island? Düsseldorf? :mrgreen:

 

So you never respawned in the middle of a battle close to the flag then? You got a special hax that makes you respawn the perfect distance from the fight?

 

Like I said in the post above, I agree with the teamwork. However not everyone plays in prearranged teams with clan members. Most of the games played are by random players in random teams.

 

As for your snide remark, i try to play as higher ranked game as possible. Playing with better players gives a better game. Maybe you should try playing in a random game with some 'lesser' players? See how you PWN that freeze when someone drives in front of your bullets, or you cant back away cos a 'noob' is right up your ass blocking you. :lol:

[NoblePlatOne 19]

koolwalky, I must disagree about the use of power-ups. When a gang of Freezes enters the game (and we know who I am talking about), they are ALWAYS using full power-ups. It is constant and non-stop "fully-flared" (armor, speed, power)...without exception. I do agree with the need for teamwork, and most players don't have a clue about that.

 

Mokpama_rapra, how can I call for help from a Firebird to unfreeze me, when the Freeze can kill my M3 Dictator in 4-5 seconds?? How fast can you type, and how quickly do you think the Firebird can come to your rescue?

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

koolwalky' date=' I must disagree about the use of power-ups. When a gang of Freezes enters the game (and we know who I am talking about), they are [b']ALWAYS[/b] using full power-ups. It is constant and non-stop "fully-flared" (armor, speed, power)...without exception. I do agree with the need for teamwork, and most players don't have a clue about that.

 

Mokpama_rapra, how can I call for help from a Firebird to unfreeze me, when the Freeze can kill my M3 Dictator in 4-5 seconds?? How fast can you type, and how quickly do you think the Firebird can come to your rescue?

 

No one stopped you to drug back! Or did you guys waste yours? lol

 

As for MoneyMagic, I have a question. Did ya ever got cussed at?

[skitee 555]

Mokpama_rapra' date=' how can I call for help from a Firebird to unfreeze me, when the Freeze can kill my M3 Dictator in 4-5 seconds?? How fast can you type, and how quickly do you think the Firebird can come to your rescue?[/quote']

 

and even then, firebird does nothing. I use firebird and never unfreeze someone when they are being attacked by a freeze at the same time.

[Slickdc 1]

Honestly, for Firebird to be useful, it needs to not only unfreeze someone, but also stop them from taking damage from a freeze as long as the flame is on them. I think that is a brilliant idea.

[r_St.Evergreen0 3]

But what's more annoying is that players with Mammoth and Freeze or Isida tend to sit on their flag in a CTF so no one could get it.

[NoblePlatOne 19]

What amazes me is that no one has even addressed my comments about how Freeze ruins the true play of the game. If you are against a team with three Freezes, you might as well quit and find a new game.

 

Instead, we have kids who are giddy with its power, not caring for the true strategy potential of the game. Then you have the admins who have absolutely NOTHING to say. Thanks for (not) listening.

[Mokpama_rapra 5]

What amazes me is that no one has even addressed my comments about how Freeze ruins the true play of the game. If you are against a team with three Freezes, you might as well quit and find a new game.

 

Instead, we have kids who are giddy with its power, not caring for the true strategy potential of the game. Then you have the admins who have absolutely NOTHING to say. Thanks for (not) listening.

 

And how do you imagine the True and Only one strategy with Tier 2 weapons at CTF games? Thunders everywhere with few exceptions of 1.5 Tier Isidas, "because Freezes ruin my camping fun"? How will you ever capture a flag at a mid-range map if you encounter enemy Mammoth fatso "laying eggs" at the flag? Freezes are the best attackers then - getting the camper by surprise, as Freezes mostly use the fast Hornet M3 armor, get the flag, freeze without kill not to be fired back and escape.

And I second the statement from someone above - more than 90% of the time players with Freezes attack, in contrast with the Thunder campers that prefer to snipe and do splash damage from far, the latter being "top strategists that don't want get their hands dirty at the boiling middle of a fight".

Just the opposite of your statement - Freezes enhance the strategy at the game, and the Freeze gun parameters are justified!

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

Guys... There is a lot of difference between the freezes on M3 hornet or M3 mammoth. And by the way, You guys need to play a couple of drug-less games.Buy that pass and join the fun with us!

[MonkeyMagic 89]

have to LOL at this thread now. Specially the snide remarks and inability to answer genuine questions regarding OP, cost, value and gameplay. perhaps admin should start taking players questions seriously, rather than commenting on how they are super pro, no one else can really play and the games is 100% correct. No one ever uses drugs, you never see a game with 3 fully drugged freeze rushing the flag either. this never happens......

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

Did I ever said I have never seen that? I agree that it is a little bit too much nowadays but everyone should be having fun. The main reason I'm against you on this is that you said. You have m2 mammoth and m2 ricochet. That is a pretty over powered combo. Or are your eyes suffering from myopia? See that freeze before it sees you!

 

The developers DO care, Each and every single gun is being tested as I speak, by the players which use them at their best. Here's a tip. Join a good game! or talk in lobby. Don't waste your time on one-sided games.

 

As for the Drugging matter, I'd repeat that no one ever stopped you to drug. I never drug a full card. I always do a Double damage and deal my damage from a far. and yes I'm talking about medium range maps like Red team on Silence. Other than that I agree that anything in the path of a freeze is a sitting duck.

 

And by the way, i'm still laughing on the price comparison between M3 Freeze and M3 Ricochet.

[MonkeyMagic 89]

Did I ever said I have never seen that? I agree that it is a little bit too much nowadays but everyone should be having fun. The main reason I'm against you on this is that you said. You have m2 mammoth and m2 ricochet. That is a pretty over powered combo. Or are your eyes suffering from myopia? See that freeze before it sees you!

 

The developers DO care, Each and every single gun is being tested as I speak, by the players which use them at their best. Here's a tip. Join a good game! or talk in lobby. Don't waste your time on one-sided games.

 

As for the Drugging matter, I'd repeat that no one ever stopped you to drug. I never drug a full card. I always do a Double damage and deal my damage from a far. and yes I'm talking about medium range maps like Red team on Silence. Other than that I agree that anything in the path of a freeze is a sitting duck.

 

And by the way, i'm still laughing on the price comparison between M3 Freeze and M3 Ricochet.

 

Ahh a decent answer at last! Thanks for that. Good to hear that the developers are constantly addressing the balance of the game. Like i said previously I strive to join the best games possible! As for the drugging, it is rife in the game. The fully flared, using health happens all the time. That forces you to react in kind - all part of the game.

 

I have asked you 2 times previously to tell me whats so funny about the price comparison. So for the third time??

 

A great point was made earlier in the thread regarding new guns that will need to be more over powered and just as overpriced. Your thoughts?

 

Also the Firebird not countering the Freeze was another great point.