[Debate]The Virtue of Selfishness

[VaudeVille 1,428]

Greetings folks!

I know that you do not come across s

nd I decided to share it with this community.

It was after the debate that I decided to have a read at this book by Ayn Rand titled "The Virtue of Selfishness."

 

Right from our childhood, we are taught that selfishness is a highly negative character trait and we are told that are actions must never be selfish. Ever since the debate and since I started reading this compilation of essays, I've been thrown into dilemma.

 

The social definition of selfishness is that of a vile person with total disregard for others and will go to any extent to fulfill his/her wishes and desires.

On the other hand, the dictionary suggests that selfishness is giving priority to one's own interest.

 

 

Speaking of interests, they can be highly variable among individuals. For example, I maybe interested in going for a movie while my friend is interested in attending a party. If I persuade my friend to come along with me, I'm clearly placing my interests above his, thus being selfish.

Moving on to the next example; I'm in a rush to get home and then I come across a blind person trying to cross the road. Looking at the person, I feel terribly sorry and I help the person cross the road.

In this case, my actions stemmed from the guilt of what I have and what another person is deprived of. The underlying reason of my actions was to overcome my guilt and therefore my actions had the sole purpose of self gratification.

 

Now the questions that arise are;

 

1. Is it really bad to be selfish?

2. What is a selfless action and when have we been truly selfless?

 

Looking forward to your opinion!

[Guest]

See mate, being selfish has it's own merits and demerits.

In some cases, you must be selfish to stay in the competition, whether it is a game, an exam or in fashion, it could be anything. But sometimes, being selfless is also a good deed, example is the second case of yours . In second case, you were in rush to home but, there is no harm in helping the blind man, but if there  are worst situation at your home than helping a blind man crossing road, for example and god forbid but, is someone at your home met with an accident and there is a big emergency then,

You'll see the situation in this way

Blind Man < Home

and this is human nature which we can't change. And if it is the case which I have given, either ways you are being selfless. So, we don't have anything to argue about here.

 

As of the first case, I believe going in party with your friend if you are invited ofcourse is a better choice than persuading your friend to go with you, as your friend may think all about the party during the movie and you might regret it too later. But if there, in party, you have someone who you feel discomfort by seeing him/her or they might feel discomfort by seeing you in the party or they might be a strong reason than going to movie, it may be better to drop the idea of going in party and ask your friend to go alone if he/she wants and tell them the reason and drop the plan.

 

 

By the above, I conclude, selfish or not but be logical of your ideology and your decisions.

 

And for the questions,

A1) It's sometimes yes and sometime's no as said in above conclusion.

A2) A selfless action is an act when you help others rather of thinking about yourself. And when you help others without seeking good for yourself in it, it is truly a selfless act.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Quasar

[Guest]

First of all, understand one thing: Taken at face value, everyone is selfish. Everyone. At some level, to some extent. Pure unselfishness get goes against survival instinct.

To answer your questions directly, no. It isn't bad to be selfish. It is human.

You cannot have a perfect selfless action. Even the seemingly selfless action feed the philosophical or emotional void in the person performing the said action. I do not think that that can be categorised as bad action, but it is selfish, per se. What we are taught as children is not to be perfectly selfless, but to avoid performing actions which cause harm to other people solely for personal gain.

[VaudeVille 1,428]

They examples I probably gave aren't great but I just wanted to see what's the opinion among people here.

I'm not talking of the basic physiological needs that one needs to fulfill to survive.

The very reason I've titled this topic "The Virtue of Selfishness" is question the general attitude towards selfishness.

Now tell me one thing, what's your opinion of people donating to charity?

Edited December 19, 2016 by VaudeVille

[Guest]

They examples I probably gave aren't great but I just wanted to see what's the opinion among people here.

I'm not talking of the basic physiological needs that one needs to fulfill to survive.

The very reason I've titled this topic "The Virtue of Selfishness" is question the general attitude towards selfishness.

Now tell me one thing, what's your opinion of people donating to charity?

Well, with donation, I guess, My opinion on donating is good for a guy to charity but one should know about whom he/she is donating, about their background and all.

[Spit_Fyre 334]

The word 'selfishness' is derived from 'self' or the 'ego' - an integral part of every one of us.

 

If you can visualize the scale of our egos, it'd look like this -

 

Altruism<----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ego-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->Selfishness

 

Going to either extreme can satisfy you on some level.

[VaudeVille 1,428]

Well, with donation, I guess, My opinion on donating is good for a guy to charity but one should know about whom he/she is donating, about their background and all.

Well, I meant is what are the character traits one would associate to a charitable person?

[Guest]

Well, I meant is what are the character traits one would associate to a charitable person?

Well again, that depends on what kind of charity. Charities are also abused by selfish people to evade taxes -_-... But I don't think we're talking about those people xD. If you donate money for the education of needy, you're helping a person or more than one person get educated who, in turn, will contribute to the society. So, regardless of how psychologically selfish the act was, as long as it does overall good for the society, it cannot be termed as selfish in the conventional sense.

[VaudeVille 1,428]

The word 'selfishness' is derived from 'self' or the 'ego' - an integral part of every one of us.

 

If you can visualize the scale of our egos, it'd look like this -

 

Altruism<----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ego-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->Selfishness

 

Going to either extreme can satisfy you on some level.

Going by the definition, altruism is the disinterested and selfless concern for others.

So what I feel is that even when we do something "selfless", we do it for the gratification of the self. Quite often, we do something good because we want to feel good about ourselves.

This is where I believe that even good acts can be selfish acts because the individual is after all concerned with how s/he feels.

Whenever an action concerns the individual, it becomes a selfish act.

[Fresh 2,390]

First of all, understand one thing: Taken at face value, everyone is selfish. Everyone. At some level, to some extent. Pure unselfishness get goes against survival instinct.

To answer your questions directly, no. It isn't bad to be selfish. It is human.

You cannot have a perfect selfless action. Even the seemingly selfless action feed the philosophical or emotional void in the person performing the said action. I do not think that that can be categorised as bad action, but it is selfish, per se. What we are taught as children is not to be perfectly selfless, but to avoid performing actions which cause harm to other people solely for personal gain.

^ When you become a moderator and try write formally  :lol:  :lol: .

[VaudeVille 1,428]

Well again, that depends on what kind of charity. Charities are also abused by selfish people to evade taxes -_-... But I don't think we're talking about those people xD. If you donate money for the education of needy, you're helping a person or more than one person get educated who, in turn, will contribute to the society. So, regardless of how psychologically selfish the act was, as long as it does overall good for the society, it cannot be termed as selfish in the conventional sense.

That's precisely the point, I'm not talking of selfishness in the conventional sense. At the end of the day, the charitable individual may have done what s/he did to feel good about him/herself regardless of the number of people s/he may have helped.

[Guest]

That's precisely the point, I'm not talking of selfishness in the conventional sense. At the end of the day, the charitable individual may have done what s/he did to feel good about him/herself regardless of the number of people s/he may have helped.

Leading to a personal gratification. But, as long as it did greater good for the socitey, the action is morally justified.

[Spit_Fyre 334]

Going by the definition, altruism is the disinterested and selfless concern for others.

So what I feel is that even when we do something "selfless", we do it for the gratification of the self. Quite often, we do something good because we want to feel good about ourselves.

This is where I believe that even good acts can be selfish acts because the individual is after all concerned with how s/he feels.

Whenever an action concerns the individual, it becomes a selfish act.

As long as the word "disinterest" is taken in context and is not confused as to be synonymous with "indifference", that definition of altruism is acceptable.

 

Going by your logic, there seems to be an assumption that no one can be selfless - because all humans who do anything are selfish by default. So the points this discussion should be debated over are -

 

1. Humans who do nothing are selfless (For example - the mummy?)

2. Humans who do anything are selfish (For example - Action: I eat to live. Motive: I want to live. Conclusion: Therefore, I'm selfish)

3. How less selfish are people? OR How more selfish; relative to a standard measure.

• Example 1- standard measure: social morality,  less selfish person: altruist, more selfish person: selfish (narcissist?)
• Example 2- standard measure: personal morality, less selfish person: ??, more selfish person: ??

Edited December 20, 2016 by Spit_Fyre

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

If you think about it, unless you are physical forced to, as in strapped to a metal structure and moved, every action is selfish. If somebody holds you at gunpoint and demands you pick up a penny, you are doing it because you want to remain alive, which is selfish.  

 

However, this is not what is meant by "selfish" in the traditional sense. "selfish" is not just performing an action because you want to, but performing an action that is solely for your benefit.

[VaudeVille 1,428]

Leading to a personal gratification. But, as long as it did greater good for the socitey, the action is morally justified.

Well it is indeed morally justified. I'm trying to bring forth a different viewpoint towards selfishness altogether. I'm not saying that selfishness is a bad thing, it can be good thing and that's precisely the reason why we're discussing the Virtue of selfishness.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Every trait can be abused or misused. The trait by itself is not a bad thing. Same with rage.

[mydoom.exe 5,154]

Well see, the action itself, be it based on selflessness or selfishness, has no meaning without intent. Long story short, both selfishness and selflessness can be perceived as good or bad - it depends on the intent of which you take action based on those traits.

[Quarks 2,255]

To a certain extent, it doesn't really matter if you're selfish or selfless, but whether or not it is moral. If you're acting based on your morals, it (hopefully), should not be inherently bad. I don't feel like writing an essay for once so I'm lazy. I'm being selfish in not writing tons because I am lazy, but it follows my morals. ;)

[VaudeVille 1,428]

Every trait can be abused or misused. The trait by itself is not a bad thing. Same with rage.

Well, I was trying to give selfishness a new dimension and portray as a virtuous trait

[monkeyburn 13,576]

The concept of selfishness being a virtue is incomplete. In so much as total selfishness denies virtue, even with the agreement of more than one individual, which in fact makes the act of selfishness appear more acceptable.