Let's Discuss Striker!

[UItimateExterminator 43]

PS: In pro battles it's of course slightly different, there I take more arcade shots and lose more close-range fights..

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

I prefer the arcade mode and use it a lot on mid to long range. I am more effective with rail, but Striker is more fun.

Thanks to TaniS for figuring out the "average splash damage" mechanic and testing it.. it reflects what I've been wondering lately. I sometimes use to sit on an higher location and shooting downwards, hitting the open ground in an enemy base close to buildings. Usually enemies hide behind those, and I can weak them to support my teams attackers in taking them down later on.

But recently the damage indicators for splash show lower figures.. now I know why -.-

[UItimateExterminator 43]

Arcade is also good if you saw someone drug DD meaning he cant use DA due to cooldown, so you can finish him off in 2 shots. I also use arcade for enemies engaged in a close-range fight where I have no idea how much hp they have left and locking on a dying tank is a fool's errand.

[UItimateExterminator 43]

But for Thunder the values were different: on average you are doing now 90 % at 5 m (so you also do more than that for <5m), whereas before you only inflicted 66% splash damage at that 5 m point. So for Thunder it was a big buff and for Striker it works like nearly removing splash damage.

When did they buff the splash damage for thunder? Last thunder patch?

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Yes, the mechanic was introduced with the last thunder patch, and given to thunder first

[Tani_S 736]

About one thing regarding this mechanic I am still unsure: they name it "average splash damage". Is this "average" just a name to distinguish this mechanic from the classical one and because the "radius of average splash damage" is between the radius of max. and min. splash dmg.? Or is it called "average", because the splash percentage at a given splash distance, i.e. 7 m, can vary from shot to shot (and the wiki stats is just a number in the middle of that)?

[UItimateExterminator 43]

Yes, the mechanic was introduced with the last thunder patch, and given to thunder first

So the splash damage for thunder at 5m got buffed by around 23%.. wow. I thought the buff was strong but with this its immense. And I never noticed cause I only used it like once or twice since then. I would put it on, see half the players wearing resists and switch it lol. Turns out they had a good reason to wear those resists.

It actually was my first ever m4 turret. Gonna have some fun with it again. 

 

Btw, magnum still doesn't have this average splash damage mechanic, right?

Edited September 14, 2018 by UItimateExterminator

[Tani_S 736]

So the splash damage for thunder at 5m got buffed by around 35%.. wow. I thought the buff was strong but with this its immense. And I never noticed cause I only used it like once or twice since then. I would put it on, see half the players wearing resists and switch it lol. Turns out they had a good reason to wear those resists.

It actually was my first ever m4 turret. Gonna have some fun with it again. 

 

Btw, magnum still doesn't have this average splash damage mechanic, right?

That's a good question. No it doesn't have it yet. Who knows maybe it is a hint to an upcoming Magnum change... finally  :P

[UItimateExterminator 43]

About one thing regarding this mechanic I am still unsure: they name it "average splash damage". Is this "average" just a name to distinguish this mechanic from the classical one and because the "radius of average splash damage" is between the radius of max. and min. splash dmg.? Or is it called "average", because the splash percentage at a given splash distance, i.e. 7 m, can vary from shot to shot (and the wiki stats is just a number in the middle of that)?

Just looked it up in the russian wiki. Its called "middle" there. So "average" is just a confusing english translation. The characteristics description is actually more clear and precise than in the EN wiki.  It says its an additional data point in the splash damage fall-off graph (from max to min). Thus, splash damage fall-off becomes exponential instead of linear.

So you got it right! I guess you could use google translator to check stuff in the RU wiki.

[UItimateExterminator 43]

That's a good question. No it doesn't have it yet. Who knows maybe it is a hint to an upcoming Magnum change... finally  :P

I hope not.. Magnum, hammer and striker share first place as my favourite turrets. Magnum is actually pretty balanced if there are a couple resists in the enemy team.  Its direct hit dps is actually 35 and thus lower than for thunder which has 38 (disregarding the splash damage, ofc, which is stronger for magnum)

[Tani_S 736]

Just looked it up in the russian wiki. Its called "middle" there. So "average" is just a confusing english translation. The characteristics description is actually more clear and precise than in the EN wiki.  It says its an additional data point in the splash damage fall-off graph (from max to min). Thus, splash damage fall-off becomes exponential instead of linear.

So you got it right! I guess you could use google translator to check stuff in the RU wiki.

Thanks a lot! So it's just a naming thing and there is no bell curve or varying splash % at a certain point on top of that mechanic.

 

I think they implemented it also because there were already so many splash turrets around, which means the uniqueness of the turrets were kinda diluted. This data point is the one that can give a specific characteristic to the single splash turrets.

[UItimateExterminator 43]

Thanks a lot! So it's just a naming thing and there is no bell curve or varying splash % at a certain point on top of that mechanic.

Yep, no varying anything. That 90% number at 5m is hard as a rock, baby )) Gonna test it out right now. Here comes my thunder and fury!!! LOL

[UItimateExterminator 43]

Well, that was fun.. First full game with thunder in months for me. This thing can dish out lol. Who cares about resists, right?

 

I might have discovered my former love for thunder again

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Well, that was fun.. First full game with thunder in months for me. This thing can dish out lol. Who cares about resists, right?

 

[picture]

I might have discovered my former love for thunder again

As Iran is a map that suits both, Thunder and Striker, your post is one of the best proves for the in-balance ;)

 

gg, wp

[UItimateExterminator 43]

As Iran is a map that suits both, Thunder and Striker, your post is one of the best proves for the in-balance ;)

 

gg, wp

There was one more thunder on my team and 1 thunder (and at one point 2)  in the enemy team. Please find them on the scoreboard and then realise that personal skill has a say in the matter.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

There was one more thunder on my team and 1 thunder (and at one point 2)  in the enemy team. Please find them on the scoreboard and then realise that personal skill has a say in the matter.

The point is that I assume you are skilled with Striker as well, still you favor Thunder for it's damage capabilities.

[UItimateExterminator 43]

The point is that I assume you are skilled with Striker as well, still you favor Thunder for it's damage capabilities.

I do not favor it. It has pro and cons. The easier handling, less stress with missed shots due to hitscan, stronger splash damage are pros. Less resists for striker and the strong burst damage at practically any range with the salvo even out the playing field in terms of damage output, at least for me. 

I just always really enjoyed playing thunder. Striker gameplay can sometimes be stressful..

[UItimateExterminator 43]

Here is the splash damage fall-off for thunder before and after the patch in July for whoever is interested in order to compare it with striker (own calculations assuming linear fall-off, while the damage after the patch at 5m distance is 90% due to the newly introduced  characteristic of "average splash damage radius" and assuming the fall-off is linear above and below that point):

[a7x_Pedro48 13,999]

Getting lots of Sandal though  :angry:

Lucky you. I'm always getting Serpuhov Massacre Barda... Got Sandal 2-3 times since the map was implemented in MM!!!

[wolverine848 13,097]

Lucky you. I'm always getting Serpuhov Massacre Barda... Got Sandal 2-3 times since the map was implemented in MM!!!

Well sandal sucks for Vulcan.  By the time you spin-up target is gone.  Or right on top of you.

One evening I was placed "randomly" ;)  in sandal 3 times in a row. That includes switching battle modes.

 

Serpuhov happens to be one of my favorite maps - great for Vulcan and smoky.  Same with massacre.  Went 15-2 in CTF with smoky.

 

And Rio... it's become the Unicorn of maps.

[Tani_S 736]

 

 

Thanks for the numbers and for the correction on the 5m point :) I apparently forgot one meter step - so 73% splash was right before the patch. One small thing about the new numbers: I don't think that there is a linear fall-off above and below the 5m point, because I would expect more of a bent curve (i.e. at 3m + 4 m by 1-2% higher numbers). For below I'd expect a bit weaker fall-off for 6-8 m and a stronger one for the lower end. Anyway, for this curve there will only be marginal differences to the linear fall-off I think.

[UItimateExterminator 43]

Thanks for the numbers and for the correction on the 5m point :) I apparently forgot one meter step - so 73% splash was right before the patch. One small thing about the new numbers: I don't think that there is a linear fall-off above and below the 5m point, because I would expect more of a bent curve (i.e. at 3m + 4 m by 1-2% higher numbers). For below I'd expect a bit weaker fall-off for 6-8 m and a stronger one for the lower end. Anyway, for this curve there will only be marginal differences to the linear fall-off I think.

Yeah, I thought about it. But assuming how steep that curve is would be pure speculations similar to the linearity assumption. So I just assumed linearity as an approximation of the quasi-exponential curve.

[Tani_S 736]

I have the strong feeling that Magnum will get a splash change too as splash is important to it, because even Striker got the change. It might even affect Twins too, but I think the range is too short to modify it.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

If I would have to code this splash mechanics, I would go for two linear functions, exactly as you guys described it.

 

The calculation performance would be better (It would calculate faster) compared to then more complex, nonlinear functions, and it would be "good enough" to reach the target. A good example where such mechanics would not be sufficient, is the damage curve of the rocket itself (which looks like this Gauss bell curve). If we would try to approximate the bell curve by a triangle, the amount of hits that deal average damage would be too less.. if we try a combination of [incline + flat top + decline] , the damage in the flat section would be exactly the same all the time. But for non symmetrical functions this combination of two linear functions works great and fast.

 

But up to now I have no idea how it's truly done. As they splash damage is derived from the normal damage of each rocket, and as this is a bell curve already, it's hard to measure such things in short time.

[Tani_S 736]

Really?  :o

If that is true, then this is non-linearity for poors  :mellow: