Discussion regarding different supplies behavior

[Opex-Rah 5,381]

For those of you who might not know recently there was a very interesting change in supplies behaviour for Tanki X.

 

The core changes are following:

SCD system is removed

Cooldowns are carried through respawns

Cooldowns are greatly increased

The changes provide an interesting results in gameplay. In comparison to SCD system, which enforce certain timings, new settings allow more flexibility. You can use all supplies at once, but you will be extremely vulnerable more than a minute after the effects have worn off. You will do better if you combine your supplies with drops, as SCD system also suggest, or if you use supplies one by one over time, but you are not limited by one certain timing as with SCD.

 

This comes with downsides naturally.

 

Obvious one is that constant supply usage will not result in invincibility. Although I've got to admit it didn't bother me much both from the supplies using end and the receiving end. As a 'drugger' I enjoyed figuring out how should I use everything I got with the best possible efficiency. You can't get that feeling with SCD system as everything is thought out for you. In this case when the enemy managed to kill my tank I didn't mind that at all. I knew I could beat him but I saved the repair kit for a better occasion. As a 'non-drugger' I still hate when they use FA, but this time I know that any supply drop that I can get can really chane the outcome.

 

Another downside is the supplies price. Obviously if this system will be introduced there will be a price bump to maintain revenue off supplies. That will not only make it harder to buy supplies but to get them through missions as well. But I guess we can ignore this problem for a time being. It is much better in the long run for the game to get supplies system more fun to use. The rest can be dealt with later.

 

The question!

 

As I've got some long term experience in the game, I could use the new system almost at full potential and crush my opponents as if there were no cooldowns whatsoever. At least this is how I felt. This brings me to the third potential downside. It seems like new system is so much skill depended it can actually make it feel worse for those who doesn't use supplies. Most of the 'druggers' will not be able to use supplies correctly and will be outplayed, but those few who will.. they might be able to overdo it.

 

So, is there anybody else who tried Tanki X's recent update? What are your opinion on the new supplies settings? If you haven't tried it yet I encourage you to try it out first.

[UNBEATABLE_13 2]

I think they should add it to Tanki Online

[marc.jp_44 20,837]

Wait, why is the TX update published in Tanki forum? Didn't properly read through. Does this have something to do with the TX Forum being down for a while?

[Opex-Rah 5,381]

Awesome!

I am not saying there will be any changes. And if there will be any changes nobody will like them (as it always happens).

 

But from the gameplay point of view I wonder if it does works better.

[Maf 32,305]

Another downside is the supplies price. Obviously if this system will be introduced there will be a price bump to maintain revenue off supplies. 

So are you saying that supply sales bring so much revenue that you will never just make them free to completely remove the complaints from players about buyers having too much of an advantage from supplies?

 

Because at the moment the main argument is that as long as it's possible for a player to run out of supplies (and crystals to buy them), buyers will have a massive advantage since they can always just buy more supplies. Therefore buying supplies = pay to win.

 

Honestly, in my opinion supplies and micro-upgrades are the only two things at the moment, which are destroying balance between buyers and free players in this game.

[Opex-Rah 5,381]

So are you saying that supply sales bring so much revenue that you will never just make them free to completely remove the complaints from players about buyers having too much of an advantage from supplies?

Forget about it. I am not going to discuss anything regarding supply economics in this topic and if I will see that discussion is going this way I will terminate it permanently.

 

The only thing that matters is gameplay mechanics.

[Maf 32,305]

Alright, alright   .___.

 

But I do admit that from a gameplay point of view this seems like a much better alternative. The current system with "smart cooldowns" is too simple and the cooldowns are just a mere inconvenience. And after they were shortened to 10 seconds, the delay is so insignificant that they might as well be removed completely.

[Cyborg 3,189]

Forget about it. I am not going to discuss anything regarding supply economics in this topic and if I will see that discussion is going this way I will terminate it permanently.

 

The only thing that matters is gameplay mechanics.

From my experience in that game I can definitely say that the idea of having cooldowns even after the tank is destroyer and after you just join a battle is simply amazing. Moreover, I have seen a lot of positive feedback on the forum regarding that, and almost no negativity about it.

[lukey0 27,543]

Just bring back 234 the way it was in 2012 and then people WILL have something to complain about... 

 

It essentially makes gameplay quite boring IMO as you can only have the 'boost' every 2 minutes, and when I did use supplies with a medic I was almost unkillable. Keeping in mind that was Hornet Firebird, imagine a Mammoth Twins in Polygon CP?

 

For an example say you are playing Silence CTF, two reds come to your base on full drug and the rest of your blue team isn't, and isn't willing to drug. Its ultimate defeat for you. It's almost certain that you will die it being 2 vs 1. The worst part is once you re-spawn you can't activate drugs again to fight back, but they will still be on full supplies, you are a sitting duck waiting to die. Right now you can activate drugs again and still fight back which adds fairness to it.

 

The new system in TX essentially makes it easier for 1 man raids, specially if its an alternate account at lower ranks. The newer system will be harder to learn than the current one, making using drugs even more complicated for new comers which isn't really what you want. 

The new drug system is more, "Who has MORE druggers on their team" than the current one which is "Who has the most drugs". Clan raiders will love this update, because they can time who drugs and when. In a normal battle I'm lucky to drug with 2-3 others, the rest just take pick-ups and do very little for the team.

 

I say the current Smart Cooldowns is better. 

[Guest]

It's almost certain that you will die it being 2 vs 1. The worst part is once you re-spawn you can't activate drugs again to fight back, but they will still be on full supplies, you are a sitting duck waiting to die. Right now you can activate drugs again and still fight back which adds fairness to it.

 

But it becomes unfair for the raiders who are almost at the end of their supply cycle and have to face newly respawning defenders with full DD + RK capabilities. Also, team raiding would be practically leaving their own base vulnerable since just after the raid, none of them would be able to ise supplies. So yeah, the new system makes the whole attack-denfense cycle in big bursts rather than small continuous tries.

[lukey0 27,543]

But it becomes unfair for the raiders who are almost at the end of their supply cycle and have to face newly respawning defenders with full DD + RK capabilities. Also, team raiding would be practically leaving their own base vulnerable since just after the raid, none of them would be able to ise supplies. So yeah, the new system makes the whole attack-denfense cycle in big bursts rather than small continuous tries.

- No it isn't unfair. They killed you and put you out of the game for just over 10 seconds, thats plenty of time to take the enemy flag and drive away. Most of the time they are just sitting there taking kills waiting to die if they have taken the flag. 

 

But like I said, not if you are in a clan using Skype, Discord etc. They wouldn't send an entire team out to attack, there is always 3-6 people back at the base defending. What you said would be in a normal battle, meaning it will often be a stale-mate between flag holders till others finally start to drug. Which is honestly boring. 

 

Like I said it end up being;

 "Who has MORE druggers on their team" than the current one which is "Who has the most drugs". 

[Maf 32,305]

For an example say you are playing Silence CTF, two reds come to your base on full drug and the rest of your blue team isn't, and isn't willing to drug. Its ultimate defeat for you

First of all, CTF is a team game and if you face situations like this, it just means that the enemy team is better organised than yours. If finding friends and playing cooperatively in same battles isn't your thing, then you'll just have to either endure it or play DM.

 

Second, what's stopping you from waiting out the time while the two druggers have full supplies (i.e. not waste ANY supplies when you see them attacking), and just do a counter-attack with your own supplies when theirs run out?

[lukey0 27,543]

First of all, CTF is a team game and if you face situations like this, it just means that the enemy team is better organised than yours. If finding friends and playing cooperatively in same battles isn't your thing, then you'll just have to either endure it or play DM.

More often than not that is the case right now. One team dominates and the other is left to be killed again and again. I don't see that changing anytime soon sadly. But a problem with playing with friends is timezones and you're not always online at the same time. The thing is you shouldn't have to endure it, right now we don't have this problem, why create it? You can drug when and as you wish right now.

 

There can be a solution to supplies to level the playing field, but I feel this will create more problems than it solves. 

 

 

Second, what's stopping you from waiting out the time while the two druggers have full supplies (i.e. not waste ANY supplies when you see them attacking), and just do a counter-attack with your own supplies when theirs run out?

Yes, you are fully correct, but soon your supplies will run out, and you'll face the same situation again, again and again. Not very dynamic, more "Who can cap first" kind of thing. 

[Zenyth 6,494]

First good thing about the TX supply mechanics was that overall less number supplies can now be used by everyone in a single battle. Makes it a more challenging task to space out supply-use bursts which are possible because of the removal of inter-dependable cool-downs. It is close to impossible to get an entire random team to use supplies against a heavily drugging team, and reducing supplies/battle cap (that is, increasing cool-downs) can help retain some the dynamic factor of games and keep it somewhat balanced too. :)

[Opex-Rah 5,381]

Hazel

 

What no one like is nerfing equipment without any input from the players. I buy something and get it to m4 then you take that away without my knowledge. That is called stealing in the USA.

 

The second thing is all the Russian cheaters, and there are a lot. When are you going to do something about them?

This got nothing to do with this topic.

[Truthteller 4,204]

I like the way supplies are right now to be honest

[Bydo 20,139]

sorry

 

but i see no difference with the new changes , maybe  because i'm so use to tanki X ..,  how there set up is the same or close to this one ..

 

why are both games becoming the same one.. why  , unless your going to merge them both later down the road ....

[Skills.n.Girls 767]

What if, let's say, they give you an specified amount of supplies for your rank for each week? This means no more buyable supplies but you still get some each week.

 

Well ^ idea may be declined in many views.

And here I must admit something :P

 

I am one of extreme savers of crystals and these little buyers don't give any offense to me. Some are using supplies too extremely but I don't care since I know I have solid account anyway after that battle ends if I lose. Also I don't scream nor rage because that's what won't make any difference. #trydontcry :D

[Bydo 20,139]

so will u also be changing the name on Double Damage to ....Increase Damage ..

 

If so then you are making them into the same game ..

 

please Don't do it 

 

 players want two separate games to play on

 

why ,  be the same ..

Edited January 30, 2017 by frozen_heart

[Opex-Rah 5,381]

so will u also be changing the name on Double Damage to ....Increase Damage ..

 

If so then you are making them into the same game ..

I specifically avoided any mentions about supplies power as my question is only regarding how cooldowns settings feel.

 

Tanki X and Tanki Online will take different path eventually. New game doesn't going to use Striker or upcoming Artillery turrets, while old game will not implement supplies-modules as a concept.

 

We are discussing only if new supply settings will do better for this game, disregarding if TX will stay this way or not.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

It is a good thing that Tanki Online and TankiX are totally different games or you'd be thinking of incorporating that here too.

[railguniz4noobz 2,394]

I specifically avoided any mentions about supplies power as my question is only regarding how cooldowns settings feel.

He wasnt asking if you were changing the power, he was asking if you were changing the name.

[Bydo 20,139]

He wasnt asking if you were changing the power, he was asking if you were changing the name.

you mean SHE ... and yea its ok i get it all the time... lol

 

I specifically avoided any mentions about supplies power as my question is only regarding how cool downs settings feel.

 

Tanki X and Tanki Online will take different path eventually. New game doesn't going to use Striker or upcoming Artillery turrets, while old game will not implement supplies-modules as a concept.

 

We are discussing only if new supply settings will do better for this game, disregarding if TX will stay this way or not.

First of all you got me confused due to you mainly work on tanki and not tanki X .. in that case i do play on both and yea there down time is longer then tanki ,, also I'am not fond of it cause when you spawn or join ( after kill or beginning a match ) you could be killed right off the bat .. this sucks mainly when your trying to do a flag battle or any team battles and they take you out .. this gives your team little to no chance of even playing in any battles ..

 

For drug supply's well put it this way there missions are completely different then tanki... since last weeks up date they changed them and players no longer get drugs.. but they do get crystals and even a bonus red crystals ..which you can change them to blue crystals in order to buy drugs..

 

so in theory did the druggers stop nope... we still can and will be able to get around the battles using drugs .. the only way to stop drugs is to remove them completely from the game systems .. then players would have to build up there experience in regular battles

 

 

Thanks .. bydolord

Edited January 31, 2017 by frozen_heart

[Opex-Rah 5,381]

when you spawn or join ( after kill or beginning a match ) you could be killed right off the bat .. this sucks

Tanki X current battles system is a bit flawed. If comparing normal battles in TO at least most of the players join battles at the beggining, not in the end. So there will be less chance in TO to end up in this situation. Anyway, this system is there not to make anybody upset, but to prevent that kind of abuse when player jumps in and out, using supplies essentially without any cooldowns.

 

the only way to stop drugs is to remove them completely from the game systems

This is not my intent. As much as supplies are pay to win mechanic they are still that one thing that provides consistent withdrawal of players crystals when every other thing in the game is already acquired. There is still no adequate substitute. Yet, this doesn't mean there nothing can be done with how much supplies are pay to win. Especially if supplies 'nerf' can be done in a way that not only makes supplies users killable but makes using supplies more fun.

[Maf 32,305]

Tanki X current battles system is a bit flawed. 

How about now? With modules and stuff. Or do you mean "battles system" as in, the algorithm that creates maps and puts players into battles?

 

This is not my intent. As much as supplies are pay to win mechanic they are still that one thing that provides consistent withdrawal of players crystals when every other thing in the game is already acquired. There is still no adequate substitute.

So are you saying that supply sales still provide such a significant source of revenue that removing them or making them free would heavily impact the game's economy? I find that quite hard to believe, to be honest. With all the equipment, its MUs, paints, modules, alterations, XT items and other stuff you can buy, it doesn't seem likely that any normal player would acquire everything in the game and have nothing to spend crystals on other than supplies.