Patch Update #439 - Balance Changes, New Alterations and Bug Fixes

[Tani_S 736]

@wolverine

as a Twins player you have to decide, which M1 alteration you want to equip. You can only take one alt. of the same m level at a time.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Tani_S

[Gabe2607 499]

The Twins equipped with both alts (range + no splash damage) can play most ranges of combat except for very long range.

 

They can go for flag, run up to opponents and not worry about self-damage. Plus - they can beat a smoky at medium range because of the impact force. The damage may not seem like a lot, but, when a smoky is missing ~ 1/3 of it's shots due to the constant barrage, it begins to add up.

 

Smoky used to be one of the best medium ranged turrets. It is still good. But the constant nerfs (critical, re-load time) to smoky combined with alterations for Twins and Ricco make it no longer stand out so much at medium range.

Smoky is outclassed at short range by Firebird/Freeze/Isida/Hammer and outclassed at long range by shaft/rail/Thunder.

 

They've squeezed Smoky into a very narrow range of competitiveness - far end of medium. All the other ranges have turrets that do much better.

Hold on...

 

"Alterations of the same rank, however, cannot stack, and must be used individually". http://en.tankiwiki.com/Alterations

 

I understand two alterations cannot be used together... Either range or no splash damage.

 

I wish I was wrong of course...

 

PS.: @Tani_S has been faster :)

Edited February 28, 2017 by Gabe2607

[wolverine848 13,097]

@wolverine

as a Twins player you have to decide, which M1 alteration you want to equip. You can only take one alt. of the same m level at a time.

lol - they are both the same rank?  (shows how much I use twins)...

That is odd that they released two alterations for twins at same level. Guess that was due to giving it permanent splash.

 

Well, at least they have a choice.  Smaller maps pick the no-splash - range won't be an issue.

Medium-large maps pick the range.. since splash will be less of an issue.

.

[Mofuka 30]

 

Personally I do not understand Twins with the range alteration. Why not getting rail/shaft or something else then, if the intention is to snipe or stay away? Twins will have to shoot for a minute to kill someone, hoping the target is particularly sleepy.

 

Especially in Rio I am "getting in touch" with these Twins and they die while I still have half life...

 

The alteration is cheap and changes the weapon to almost entirely new one, if you already have twins, makes perfect sense to buy this alt.

It can't replace railgun and shaft. It's sort of similar to vulcan, as a constantly shooting long range weapon.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Mofuka

[Gabe2607 499]

With account tankomate1. I recently met you at monte carlo and wave for a brief, we even had conversation. You have short memory apparently.

Ah... now I remember, sorry... As explained in PM, in Monte Carlo any Twins will be slaughtered (alteration or not). Sometimes I still join, but I know what is going to happen.

 

Wave is one my favorite and believe to be a hell of a player. If I see a Twins shooting from Base to Base... I lose my temper (no matter in which team that player is and you know it... :( ) because it is one of the noobest things ever. One sniper in Wave is more than enough, and should be Shaft. All others should attack, especially Twins. When I get in a team with 3 snipers, I should learn to leave (rather than cursing all time), as that team is going to lose for sure.

 

Serpuhov depends: generally Twins is more effective in Defense, unless team is losing.

 

By the way, with account you played only 82 hours with Twins... You are a Thunder guy and there I certainly would have to learn from you, but with Twins... :P

 

PS.: a real Twins player will never play like a Vulcan player. An occasional Twins player probably yes...

Edited February 28, 2017 by Gabe2607

[Mofuka 30]

Ah... now I remember, sorry... As explained in PM, in Monte Carlo any Twins will be slaughtered (alteration or not). Sometimes I still join, but I know what is going to happen.

 

Wave is one my favorite and believe to be a hell of a player. If I see a Twins shooting from Base to Base... I lose my temper (no matter in which team that player is and you know it... :( ) because it is one of the noobest things ever. One sniper in Wave is more than enough, and should be Shaft. All others should attack, especially Twins. When I get in a team with 3 snipers, I should learn to leave (rather than cursing all time), as that team is going to lose for sure.

 

Serpuhov depends: generally Twins is more effective in Defense, unless team is losing.

 

By the way, with account you played only 82 hours with Twins... You are a Thunder guy and there I certainly would have to learn from you, but with Twins... :P

 

PS.: a real Twins player will never play like a Vulcan player. An occasional Twins player probably yes...

With Twins At Monte Carlo is more complicated, because they can shoot and hide and i have to be exposed. It depends on the game, I'd sometimes get a good score there with twins+alt, sometimes not.

It's perfect for Wave though. I'd either be lazy and shoot from my base to their base, providing a cover, or be an attacker. It's quite effective, and even at that range kills fast enough. It's annoying and frustrating for the opponent. Today at Wave there was a Ricochet team mate next to me shooting together from our hill, he apparently also had a range alteration, it was a nightmare for the opponent.

I recently bought Titan, which changed my playing style, but even with it I like to go for the flag.

 

As I said, I didn't like the simplicity of this weapon before, it was boring, but since I bought the alt and with the splash damage, it became fun to play with. Been playing mostly with it for a week now. It's especially good at Polygon.

 

The game is changing and you are forced to start using the weapons in a different way, in order to be successful and get more fun from the game. Playing with just one weapon and one tactic is tiring.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Mofuka

[Gabe2607 499]

With Twins At Monte Carlo is more complicated, because they can shoot and hide and i have to be exposed. It depends on the game, I'd sometimes get a good score there with twins+alt, sometimes not.

It's perfect for Wave though. I'd either be lazy and shoot from my base to their base, providing a cover, or be an attacker. It's quite effective, and even at that range kills fast enough. It's annoying and frustrating for the opponent. Today at Wave there was a Ricochet team mate next to me shooting together from our hill, he apparently also had a range alteration, it was a nightmare for the opponent.

I recently bought Titan, which changed my playing style, but even with it I like to go for the flag.

 

As I said, I didn't like the simplicity of this weapon before, it was boring, but since I bought the alt and with the splash damage, it became fun to play with. Been playing mostly with it for a week now. It's especially good at Polygon.

 

The game is changing and you are forced to start using the weapons in a different way, in order to be successful and get more fun from the game. Playing with just one weapon and one tactic is tiring.

I understand all but...

 

1) In Monte Carlo, good score? Meaning capping flags and positive KD? No way, unless 2 vs 2 or something similar.

2) In Wave if you are "bored and camp", your team will suffer and probably lose (unless the other team is really really bad). You said you had a Rico with you... how do you get flags, if two (or more) camp? If you attack, you will be getting tons of self damage with "your" alteration. You better stay in Middle (with your long range alteration), control drops and hope to have 3 attacking team mates.

3) In Polygon I agree it is ok if teams are not big (many players), otherwise still better to avoid splash damage, as you face enemy after enemy at close range (without even entering the pit). This is another of my favorite Maps and I always end up with many kills (unless I have to get the tunnel to win, in which case, again, better no splash damage).

4) I got only one Hull and one Turret. Still not tired  :) 

[Mofuka 30]

I understand all but...

 

1) In Monte Carlo, good score? Meaning capping flags and positive KD? No way, unless 2 vs 2 or something similar.

2) In Wave if you are "bored and camp", your team will suffer and probably lose (unless the other team is really really bad). You said you had a Rico with you... how do you get flags, if two (or more) camp? If you attack, you will be getting tons of self damage with "your" alteration. You better stay in Middle (with your long range alteration), control drops and hope to have 3 attacking team mates.

3) In Polygon I agree it is ok if teams are not big (many players), otherwise still better to avoid splash damage, as you face enemy after enemy at close range (without even entering the pit). This is another of my favorite Maps and I always end up with many kills (unless I have to get the tunnel to win, in which case, again, better no splash damage).

4) I got only one Hull and one Turret. Still not tired  :)

1) It's not hard to get positive KD at monte carlo with TItan and Twins+alt, even on full map and with good players. Only Shafts would bother me. They are too powerful now. But you can knock their aim off. It's not true that there is no impact force, I see that their laser shakes a lot when I shoot them.

 

2) It was only for 1-2 minutes. I would shoot from my base for awhile, then go to the middle, or to their base, I'm not doing the same thing whole game. I like variety. I can even cap with Titan, It's slow, but not too slow and has a lot of armor.

Splash works only at 1 meter or something, it's not a big issue, I have protection. They should increase the splash radius, its too little.

 

3) at Polygon KD of 1,80 is almost guaranteed, even playing with legends, I prefer games with no drugs, I'm not so good at drug wars.  It's even easier to get good score on a full map. I rarely go to the pit, would be stupid with twins with splash. I'd stay from aside firing at the pit, doing a lot of damage and getting kills until someone target me and get killed. I like to camp too.

 

We appear to like the same maps.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Know how to judge when Tanki screws up a "balance" change? When the changed item skyrockets in popularity right afterwards is how. Word spreads fast when a turret or hull gets overpowered.

 

I see Twins and Ricos are all over the baattlefiedls now.

 

Take away the *** **** impact force. Remember when Viulcan had the big impact force?  The lesson there was: fast steady-stream firing weapons cannot have a major impact effect or else the opponent cant even drive. But here we are. Tanki retains no lessons. 

 

Just finished a battle when my the Hornet couldn't drive and its Isida couldn't hit anything even if it got close. Thanks for the Isida nerf Tanki! (Well since Tanki does not seem to learn from experience maybe I'll see the 50% self-heal back soon.)

 

It's so much fun gaming when you can't even drive. 

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Take away the *** **** impact force. Remember when Viulcan had the big impact force?  The lesson there was: fast steady-stream firing weapons cannot have a major impact effect or else the opponent cant even drive. But here we are. Tanki retains no lessons. 

 

Just finished a battle when my the Hornet couldn't drive and its Isida couldn't hit anything even if it got close. Thanks for the Isida nerf Tanki! (Well since Tanki does not seem to learn from experience maybe I'll see the 50% self-heal back soon.)

 

It's so much fun gaming when you can't even drive. 

When I play poly/CP on my Twins/Titan, the enemy medium hulls have no much trouble to drive through my Twins fire.

But light hulls are the ones that are in deep trouble

I played vs a Rico player recently with my M3 wasp.. and as soon as he landed the first shot I had no chance to take cover.. I could not drive any more. And that old saying that a Wasp is a hard target.. this was never true for a Gismo pilot who knows his stuff. And since the Wasp's turning acceleration and speed were reduced, it's just lame + low health.

 

So from my experience the impact force is ok regarding mediums and heavies.. maybe the light hulls need a buff?

With light's you do not stand much of a chance on the battlefield since october.. and since a Viking on Nitro can now outrace a Wasp without nitro in speed, acceleration, while the impact force neutralizes Wasps (poor) agility -  I can truely understand the pilots of mediums.

Edited March 1, 2017 by BlackWasp777

[LittleWillie 3,199]

When I play poly/CP on my Twins/Titan, the enemy medium hulls have no much trouble to drive through my Twins fire.

But light hulls are the ones that are in deep trouble

I played vs a Rico player recently with my M3 wasp.. and as soon as he landed the first shot I had no chance to take cover.. I could not drive any more. And that old saying that a Wasp is a hard target.. this was never true for a Gismo pilot who knows his stuff. And since the Wasp's turning acceleration and speed were reduced, it's just lame + low health.

 

So from my experience the impact force is ok regarding mediums and heavies.. maybe the light hulls need a buff?

With light's you do not stand much of a chance on the battlefield since october.. and since a Viking on Nitro can now outrace a Wasp without nitro in speed, acceleration, while the impact force neutralizes Wasps (poor) agility -  I can truely understand the pilots of mediums.

Everything you write seems spot on to me.

 

I'm just saying these turrets are too Swiss Army Knife; they do too many things. Tanki has been giving the more and more capabilities. Something has to go. Impact force seems like a good choice/

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

So from my experience the impact force is ok regarding mediums and heavies.. maybe the light hulls need a buff?

With light's you do not stand much of a chance on the battlefield since october.. and since a Viking on Nitro can now outrace a Wasp without nitro in speed, acceleration, while the impact force neutralizes Wasps (poor) agility -  I can truely understand the pilots of mediums.

Viking gets rocked too much by the impact force - it can't keep aim with any weapon that requires some form of accuracy.

 

Maybe Hunter is more stable - I don't know - have not used it since M0.   I want my older, stable Viking back. The "switch" was just dumb.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

I can't tell if Rico's and Twins can do too much in one package.

Owning a Twins myself I don't feel like ruling too hard.. it feels pretty leveled. Of course the impact force and constant fire is not charming to other hulls, but the downside is that I have to stay out of cover all the time, while impact force is the only thing that provides me "cover". The long-range alteration gives better ranges (less likely to be hit by others) but the damage goes down seriously which feels not OP. And a Rico, Hammer, Thunder seem to outperform me on midrange (where Twin's imact is gone as well as it's damage).

 

Rico is a beast if owned by a pro, but I have not much experience using it by my self.

 

 

Viking gets rocked too much by the impact force - it can't keep aim with any weapon that requires some form of accuracy.

 

Maybe Hunter is more stable - I don't know - have not used it since M0.   I want my older, stable Viking back. The "switch" was just dumb.

IMHO it is completely ok, if a medium hull can not keep on aim.. that's the purpose of impact force.

I think of it like that:

 

Scenario 1) The medium hull needs just 1 shot left to kill the rico/Twins:

Try to stabilize your own hull by driving it into a wall - this helps a lot. It needs practice (not because it's so hard, but more because you have to decide for it fast, because you need a wall close by, and because you have to think about where to point your turret in time, as you can not aim by turret+hull as soon as you are flat to the wall with one side of your tank)

 

Scenario 2) If you need more then 1 shot, to kill that Rico/Twins

Run. Whatever mid/longrange turret you use, they will kill you first, so run for cover, trick them and plan your next shot. A Medium hull can run to the next cover without beeing rocked too hard of tracks (more or less).

 

Light hulls can do nothing of that. They can not drive while under fire of Rico or Twins; so escape is possible but highly unlikely. And if the stabilize themselfes, the Twins or Rico will lift the hull so they shot over him very often (also not always, but very likely)..

 

 

I also want my stable (weight), agile (acceleration) and non-drifting viking back -.-

[LittleWillie 3,199]

The problem is impact force mulktiple times/ second.

 

We can bring back full imact force to Vulcan ... remember those days?  Today its Twins doing that.

 

In order for my Smoky to use the +impact force alteration. 

 

a ) Sacrifice Smoky's defining charateristic! 

b ) Land every shot

c ) Not only aim for the enemy tank, but aim for the extreme corner of his hull. Or if he is facing me head-on, I must rock my hull to hit his turret high. The point being Smoky must aim every shot by eye and not only that smoky must add in the additional difficulty of aiming for a small portion of the enemy's profile.

 

If I keep critical hits going I have to still do B and C but the hulls affected are fewer in number.

 

If I use the m2 alteration my ROF goes down so far the impacts are spaced far apart and are again less of a factor.

 

Twins? Sacrifice nothing. Impact is the standard package. You don't have to aim for a certain spot when you are landing several jarring shots each second. Ditto Rico.

 

Just exited a game where my team was lousy. So I got destroyed put on Pause and sipped some coffee. I watched an enemy twins sit in one spot, spacebar brick in place, did not turn its turret once. Just shot non-stop for almost two full minutes. Watched an allied Isida vainly try to attack .. saw it just jerk back and forth then went boom.

 

At a bare minimum if Rico and Twins want their long range alteration ... impact goes to zero. Not low, to zero.

Edited March 1, 2017 by LittleWillie

[railguniz4noobz 2,394]

 

Remember when hammer has impact force? They removed it and gave it bouncing shots that kill you when you shoot a wall to reload. Rico and twins have splash damage. Shaft doesnt have penetration. Isida doesnt have self-heal. 

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

The problem is impact force mulktiple times/ second.

We can bring back full imact force to Vulcan ... remember those days?  Today its Twins doing that.

[...]

At a bare minimum if Rico and Twins want their long range alteration ... impact goes to zero. Not low, to zero.

I agree that the Vulcan was a pain back in those days.. it make my M3+ Hunter spin like crazy.

But Twins does not do this to my Viking today (the Viking today is about like the Hunter back then).

 

Regarding your proposal about the long range alterations of Twins and Rico, I can comment only on the Twins alteration - because i won it.

My comment comes down to a single point: I do not use it :p

Twins goes best on real close distances, and there the alteration lacks the DPS as the reload time was increased. You can still shoot "endless" but the time increase between your shots lowers your damage per second output massively.

So for me it sounds balanced enough.. because if it would feel more powerfull, I would use it more often.

 

Hmm.. if I might ask you for something, could you tell me which maps + situations (tank A, Twins = behind big red house, tank B, Viking is behind the big rock in the center) are prone for that overpowerness of twins that you meant?

I would really like to go there and try that out by myself (although I have no time nowadays, but maybe end of next week..)

[LittleWillie 3,199]

^^^For BlackWasp^^^

 

I don't file things in my brain that way, this map, that but or terrain and so forth. I think more along these lines.

 

The impact abilities of many weapons have changed since last fall's bug re-balance and the introduction of Alterations. Plus the hull weights changed a lot. So we were in a whole new world in terms of which hulls had no/minor/major impact effects in combat. Good or bad here we are now.

 

OK now we layer in those new Alterations. Correct me if I am wrong but the Smoky m1 is the only alteration in the game that adds impact force. This comes at a high cost of eliminating critical hits - Smoky's defining capability. That leads me to think that impact is now Smoky's defining characteristic when using this alteration.

 

But in game-play Smoky loses the impact matchup against other stock turrets. The root cause Smoky loses seems to be the fact these other turrets hit many more times per second than Smoky. They throw off (say) 75% of Smoky's shots. Smokey thows off 26% of theire. Smoky goes boom.

 

It seems to me that the intent here was to make the +impact smoky the top fighter when relying upon impact as it's #1 tactical tool. But yet it loses to turrets for which impact is perhaps #3 in its tool chest. That does not seem kosher. Results do not seem to match intent.

 

=====

 

When Isidas were clearly OPed you saw a lot more Isidas. Even during my brief time here I's seen Vulcans go from rarely seen, to seen far too often, then back down in poularity again. In the last couple-few weeks I am seeing a lot more Twins, Ricos, and Shafts. In contrast Striker was declared a dog right after introduction. Now that they are no longer novel they hare perhaps the rarest turret seen i battle.

 

I've never seen a surge in Smokys on the battlefield. Even now it is rare for me to run up against a Smoky using +impact. 

 

If impact Smokys really were "smokin'" then these trends would be different, it seems to me. 

 

Anyway, that's where I'm coming form.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

But in game-play Smoky loses the impact matchup against other stock turrets. The root cause Smoky loses seems to be the fact these other turrets hit many more times per second than Smoky. They throw off (say) 75% of Smoky's shots. Smokey thows off 26% of theire. Smoky goes boom.

This may be because of your unstable Viking, and goes completely contrary to my experience. I see Ricos always losing against Smokies because about half their projectiles hit. Smoky knocks off light hulls so much you are annihilated before you close range. As long as you don't get too close Hammer, Firebird, Twins, etc, are no threat.  Smoky seems to be the most annoying turret in terms of impact force. 

 

Again, most people think a turret is UP when they use it and OP when they fight against it. ;) It seems the vast majority think Smoky probably deserved the nerf.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

i cant take u seriously with ur name

He is extremely smart and insightful, and the account is named after the nickname for the first WW1 tank.

[Gabe2607 499]

He is extremely smart and insightful, and the account is named after the nickname for the first WW1 tank.

I learn something every day... B)

[Xxemo_dinoxX 934]

No wonder Twins does so well in Polygon..

[LittleWillie 3,199]

i cant take u seriously with ur name

This from a "Dopey".

 

I suspect we are seeing snark played at a high level. Well done, Sir dwarf.

Edited March 7, 2017 by LittleWillie

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