[Special Review] New Alterations and Turret Adjustments: Patch #439

[Brokkolo 43]

If you think changes should make weapons "Less noobish" then you should hate this update. A boost to "weak" damage rewards those players who sit at the back of the map and never move. Vulcan owners, prepare your bricks!

Before update, in Polygon CP I used to go into point and move around. Now it has made harder, because when I am moving side towards enemy, myvaim get knnocked off

After update I can't move around and damage enemies as much as before. I have stop and fight "noobish" way, IfvI want to kill him and not to die first. This update makes vulcan more "noobish", because Tanki hurts guys who were doing other ways than only camping.

[Bleach 491]

#HowToSpin

 

Not only twins users had a bad week due to the horrible twins update, we get a newspaper article rationalizing

The update from the viewpoint of every one but twins users, i have met no twins user who liked the new alteration.

How can you possibly rate the twins update as good ?!!! oh wait you're paid by tanki to say that.

 

Need I say more? I couldn't agree more to be honest...

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Like hell I do not use Vulcan.  Here;s news... one player can run more than one account.

 

READ IT AND WEEP.

Edited February 20, 2017 by LittleWillie

[LittleWillie 3,199]

 

 

Before update, in Polygon CP I used to go into point and move around. Now it has made harder, because when I am moving side towards enemy, myvaim get knnocked off

After update I can't move around and damage enemies as much as before. I have stop and fight "noobish" way, IfvI want to kill him and not to die first. This update makes vulcan more "noobish", because Tanki hurts guys who were doing other ways than only camping.

Exactly. Fighting at weak ranges is inefficient for any weapon. It's good for getting the enemy to duck for cover. It's good to fool the enemy to thinking you are shooting from point A while you zoom over to point B instead. But only noobs seek to do all their fighting at extreme range.

 

Had a massacre CP game yesterday when are vulcan / heavy hull sat at teh very back of the map with a brick on his spacebar, and worse and Isida doing nothing else but healing him.  We got creamed because we had two of our team doing essentially nothing.  They refused to move up. 

 

So playeth the noobs.

Edited February 20, 2017 by LittleWillie

[misafeco 713]

Criticize me in PM if you want. But ranting is intolerable, especially considering you don't actually use Vulcan yourself.

He does.

http://ratings.tankionline.com/en/user/skittlewillie/

[Crip 4,735]

You have used Vulcan on your alternate account I see. Therefore, I take back what I said earlier.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Savage

[Ninja 10,468]

I need some big orange text to be noticed.

 

Are the French and Hindi ones direct translations?

Edited February 20, 2017 by Ninja

[Thekillerpenguin 1,731]

Everyone, take a chill pill. Sheesh. Take a break, drink some water, play some piano, listen to music, eat a sandwich or something.
 
I'm gathering that a lot of you guys are angered by the Vulcan changes, and think that Savage is misrepresenting them as being beneficial or positive as opposed to being negative. Some of you think that he is doing this on purpose to whitewash and glorify the developers. From there, things have spiraled out of control into a mess of yelling and arguments. That's not helping anyone.
 
I'd like to address a few points.

• Savage wrote his section of the article based on his own experiences and his own testing. You don't have to agree. His own experiences may not and apparently do not match with your own, but they are still his. I don't use Vulcan very much these days, so I can't say much about how the changes have affected it. What I do remember from my days of using it for the few months after its release was that the reduction of weak damage from 50% to 25% really hurt its ranged performance for me. If somebody were to value the damage of Vulcan more than its gyroscopic effect or auto-aim angles, then they might like the update. It seems like everyone here disagrees with that view, but again, you don't have to. People use turrets in their own ways and like different things about them. And that's fine.
• Reporters are not literally the mouthpiece of your deity of choice. Our articles are not supposed to be a religious text that you are supposed to follow...well, religiously. When writing, I try to keep the analysis neutral, but I also offer my own opinions. It's perfectly fine to disagree with the views written in an article as long as you keep it civil. This goes for disagreeing with other people too. I absolutely hate eating squid and other cephalopods, but I'm not going to accuse people who love calamari of being idiots or shills for the squid industry.
• Reporters are not literally shills for the developers. I think of myself as a player first and foremost. When I hear of a new update, I don't think "hmm, how can I spin this so the players will swallow it." Instead, I think "hmm, how will this affect the game?", and then base my article around the changes. If I offer opinions, I try to keep them separate. I don't set out to convince the readers of anything- that's for you to decide. I know that there are some of you thinking "THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT SHILLS FOR THE DEVELOPERS WOULD SAY!", but if I was a shill for the developers, I'd be doing a pretty poor job. I don't agree or like every single decision that is made by Alternativa, but I try to keep things neutral so that you can make your own conclusions. Before some of you go and say "WELL MAYBE YOU'RE SHILLING MORE CAREFULLY TO GIVE THE ILLUSION OF NEUTRALITY", think about it. Nothing I say would ever convince you otherwise, so why are you here?
• Savage is admonished for hiding posts that he shouldn't have. I'm not a reporter admin, so this isn't official, but it's clear to me that Savage has been too liberal with the Hide function. I've reminded him that in the future, he should only use it for housekeeping, obvious rule breaks, and nothing else. Other forms of unprofessional behavior should be avoided as well.
• Realize that you're in a vitriolic argument about a weapon in an online tank game. None of this is real, so there is no point in having any significant degree of real life anger over this issue. Take it into perspective.

Hopefully that settles everything, and we can drop the stick and move on from this drama. I think we can all agree that there are better uses of our time.
 

Edited February 20, 2017 by Thekillerpenguin
Split posts.

[Thekillerpenguin 1,731]

Here's a separate post for other matters.
 

#HowToSpin

Not only twins users had a bad week due to the horrible twins update, we get a newspaper article rationalizing
The update from the viewpoint of every one but twins users, i have met no twins user who liked the new alteration.
How can you possibly rate the twins update as good ?!!! oh wait you're paid by tanki to say that.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I can't think of a way where someone could simultaneously hate the splash damage AND the alteration. The alteration basically reverses the update, so if you hate the update, you'd like it, and vice versa. I get that players could hate that they would have to pay up to 50k to get rid of it the splash damage, but unless that's what you're talking about, I don't understand.

I did my best to stay neutral in the article. I talked about the possible benefits of the splash damage and its very noticeable downsides, and that the alteration could be helpful if you're really bothered by the self damage and are willing to pay 50k. I've revised the last paragraph of that section to remove any possible interpretation of bias, if that helps.

---

 

 

I need some big orange text to be noticed.

 

Are the French and Hindi ones direct translations?

 

No, they are written by separate French and Hindi reporters. They're just linked here for convenience.

[jsshp 0]

Now- the vulcan gun-is realy big TRASH.  change back or eliminated.

[CuT_TheRe_HeaRTs_OuT 640]

. I get that players could hate that they would have to pay up to 50k to get rid of it the splash damage, but unless that's what you're talking about, I don't understand

That is one reason we hate it , but another reason is that the devs turned twins standard feature into an alteration

Most battles at my rank are pro battles and most pro battles have alterations turned off , so not only did we have

To spend 50k to get our turrets back,now we can't even use this alteration in at least 70% if not of more of pro battles. 

 

See you should have studied this from twins view point too.

[Akame 4,578]

I will still say this, although vulcan is one of the only turrets that has been significantly nerfed the most, in the right hands, it is still a power house of slaughter, the key lies within adapting.

[Ahmed2012_lucky 0]

My dear Vulcan RIP  :( 

Please dont do this to Vulcan Plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[LittleWillie 3,199]

I will still say this, although vulcan is one of the only turrets that has been significantly nerfed the most, in the right hands, it is still a power house of slaughter, the key lies within adapting.

Of course part of the controversy is due to some people use "nerfed" to mean "ruined" and others mean "weaker than before". I believe the latter meaning is more common but when you have a lot of people using a slang term a lot of mis-communication is possible.

 

I use it in the latter sense and I agree with you. It is still a damaging turret but I do not think this change was well thought out. I don't think this change will lead to more interesting usage of the turret. They rewarded sitting back and bricking the spacebar, and hampered it use on the less-common light hull option.

 

As a Smoky player and a Vulcan player I know how to use and to counter this turret. I just got off a CP game with an enemy Vulcan/Mammoth who drugged a lot. This was a good player who moved and certainly had good battlefield awareness. He was not a sit and brick heavy hull Vulcan. So I put in my extra impact alteration and proceeded to ruin his fun. It's so easy to throw of even a vulcan on a mammoth's aim now.

Edited February 21, 2017 by LittleWillie

[Brokkolo 43]

 

Overall, I believe this update was beneficial for Vulcan, and the positives outweigh the negatives.

 

 

 

Perhaps now I understood, what did You mean: It is good that Tanki Online made this turret more "noobish"(and probably more suitable for/to noobs).

[Akame 4,578]

Of course part of the controversy is due to some people use "nerfed" to mean "ruined" and others mean "weaker than before". I believe the latter meaning is more common but when you have a lot of people using a slang term a lot of mis-communication is possible.

 

I use it in the latter sense and I agree with you. It is still a damaging turret but I do not think this change was well thought out. I don't think this change will lead to more interesting usage of the turret. They rewarded sitting back and bricking the spacebar, and hampered it use on the less-common light hull option.

 

As a Smoky player and a Vulcan player I know how to use and to counter this turret. I just got off a CP game with an enemy Vulcan/Mammoth who drugged a lot. This was a good player who moved and certainly had good battlefield awareness. He was not a sit and brick heavy hull Vulcan. So I put in my extra impact alteration and proceeded to ruin his fun. It's so easy to throw of even a vulcan on a mammoth's aim now.

he could have avoided getting his aim knocked off if he sat flat onto a wall xD , even with striker, i use the wall to stabilize my aims.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Akame

[Viking4s 10,791]

If you think changes should make weapons "Less noobish" then you should hate this update. A boost to "weak" damage rewards those players who sit at the back of the map and never move. Vulcan owners, prepare your bricks!

Is this a rants against "Camping"? "Camping is bad?" - Is it your point?

 

Have you seen movies where tough mindless guys use Gatling guns while laughing crazily and spraying all over the place (watch Predator)?

I think these changes goes well with the idea of what this weapon should be, keep the finger on the trigger till you run out of ammunitions.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

he could have avoided getting his aim knocked off if he sat flat onto a wall xD , even with striker, i use the wall to stabilize my aims.

As I said this was not a noob vulcan that sat in one spot. He moved around and that means not being against a wall 100% of the time. As I said he had good awareness ... he knew what I was up to and would back up/maneuver to prevent my circle-strafing him. He was good- and he died.

 

Also: if you back against a wall I will move to your side and still rock off your aim. 

Edited February 21, 2017 by LittleWillie

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Is this a rants against "Camping"? "Camping is bad?" - Is it your point?

 

Have you seen movies where tough mindless guys use Gatling guns while laughing crazily and spraying all over the place (watch Predator)?

I think these changes goes well with the idea of what this weapon should be, keep the finger on the trigger till you run out of ammunitions.

What does my comment have to do with "camping"? I didn't mention camping. I am talking about basic battle. I see some vulcans in one spot for 15 minutes just firing constantly.

 

As for what happens in movies ... we are talking about game balance not movies.

 

Look. At the same moment Tanki tells us they have to change Twins because it is time to take the brick off the spacebar.  At the same time they change Vulcan to reward putting a brick on the spacebar.

 

Well, which is it Tanki?

Edited February 21, 2017 by LittleWillie

[Viking4s 10,791]

What does my comment have to do with "camping"? I didn't mention camping. I am talking about basic battle. I see some vulcans in one spot for 15 minutes just firing constantly.

 

As for what happens in movies ... we are talking about game balance not movies.

"sit at the back of the map and never move?!" If this is not camping, sorry my bad.

 

"we are talking about game balance not movies." I was talking about cultural perception of what the turret should be, expectation. Movies and other game (such as Wolfeintein castle) allows benchmarks for  comparison too. If you're not interested, well too bad then.

Strong weapon with a feeling of power and with little requirment of expertise to use it (noobish) is what i expect from this weapon. But hey, that's just my opinion.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Viking4s

[LittleWillie 3,199]

"sit at the back of the map and never move?!" If this is not camping, sorry my bad.

 

"we are talking about game balance not movies." I was talking about cultural perception of what the turret should be, expectation. Movies and other game (such as Wolfeintein castle) allows benchmarks for  comparison too. If you're not interested, well too bad then.

Strong weapon with a feeling of power and with little requirment of expertise to use it (noobish) is what i expect from this weapon. But hey, that's just my opinion.

Ahh I see. No I did not mean sittingon the enemy side of the map killing spawns. I spwaning moving to a firing spot and opening fire.

 

If we are talking expectations the gattling-gun design is hardly a joke weapon. Dig: A-10 Warthog

Edited February 21, 2017 by LittleWillie

[Viking4s 10,791]

Ahh I see. No I did not mean sittingon the enemy side of the map killing spawns. I spwaning moving to a firing spot and opening fire.

 

If we are talking expectations the gattling-gun design is hardly a joke weapon. Dig: A-10 Warthog

I'm a fan of the A10 a.k.a. tank killer :wub:

[LittleWillie 3,199]

So is the US Army :lol:  if not the USAF so much.  :rolleyes:

[Brokkolo 43]

I agree entirely as a daily Vulcan user (on Wasp). The overall effect is a dramatic nerf. And the lighter the hull you use the more the nerf effect.

 

ALSO the author wrote:

 

"Both angles of auto-aim were reduced by 4 degrees, and there was talk that it would severely impair Vulcan's ability as a defender on maps such as Noise, as well as reducing its effectiveness in maps such as Polygon, since the downwards auto-aim was critical for its success. However, after repeated testing Vulcan appears to still perform most of its original roles "

 

I remember the change as a loss of 4% in the vertical aim with the downward aim left the same. Though perhaps that is due once again to unclear writing by Tanki. At any rate this review is nonsense. The loss of vertical arc is indeed a significant loss of tactical capability. THAT IS WHY IT WAS DONE. I hate these sort of reviews that pretend a change is not really a change at all!

 

ALSO

 

"Weak Damage is now increased from 25-50%. This means Vulcan performs much better at medium-long range, and this boost aids it in the Deathmatch format, allowing it to cut down approaching enemies before they get too close for comfort."

 

 

Written to sound like someone who never uses Vulcan. or who does not understand Tanki's definitions. Weak damage does nothing to help at "medium" range. It halps only at extreme ranges. And I do not know many DM situations where a fire tank charges all the way across Kungur to attack that Vulcan on the other side of the map. It will attack someone close tpo it.

 

What tis weak damage boost does is rewards teh Vulcan player who (in the words of the author)...

 

"simply being to hold the spacebar, rotate the turret slightly and watch as the stream of bullets connects with an enemy."

 

According to the author that is a Bad Thing. But he praises the change that makes this much more likely.

 

Bottom line this last update sux. This change nerfed the vulcan, nerfed vulcan/light hulls, but bootst heavy hulls sitting in one with a brick on the spacebar until they glow cherry-red hot. IOW vulcan has been made more noobish.

 

Accrding to the VLOG, that is supposed to be a Bad Thing. But Tanki did it anyway.

That seems totally true. Who is going to use Vulcan in very long ranges? I played with vulcan as a mid-close range turret.

 

I haven'y played that much on Vulcan (116 hours) But still I feel myself as a vulcan player. But seems Like You are not regular user of Vulcan. At least from story it seems

 

Btw I disn't mean LittleWillie with that regular user talk

Edited February 22, 2017 by Brokkolo

[Brokkolo 43]

This review is probably what think real Vulcan users, which is underside.

 

This is more truthful review of Vulcan done by LittleWillie in "Let's discuss Vulcan" :

Extreme? That's not my word. But I would say this is a major nerf.

 

Aim gets knocked off very easily now. If I am firing on the move and stop I'll rock the hull and fire into the ground.  If I'm stil while shooting and start to move, I rocj and miss upwards. I can't shoot vertically like I could before, and rocking the hull to shoot higher does not do more than land 2-3 bullets. Vullcan needs to land dozens of bullets to be a fanger.

 

It is indeed easier to turn the turret while firing and while moving ... but the loss of gyro effect means it is also harder to keep your shots landing on target.  

 

In effect the loss of stability means 10% to 20% of the shots you'd had landed with the gyro effect will miss doe to the overly-sensitive turret now.

 

And as for the big old "buff" in the weak damage zone ... meh.  This is not how to fight efficiantly, shooting at weak ranges.  But most significantly having a fast turning turret means nothing ... noithing at long ranges.  The slightest turn covers a lot of territory at 150+ meters.  But the loss of stability does matter ... because a slight bump also means missing at long range.

 

And this atop a massive 10% across the board nerf just weeks ago. Now with added missed shots we're talking about a 20% to 30% reduction in effective dps w/in the past month or so.

 

Is that "extreme"? I'll let teh reader decide.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Brokkolo