Patch Update #441 - Changes to Isida, Hammer and Shaft, and other changes

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Good God. Tanki's gone absolutely insane.

 

It took you a long time of careful analysis to see Hammerr is OP?  It is OP because of it's damage level and you are not changing that! Hammer is OP because it drives around with DD up 1-shotting everything it meets.  So what if it takes 1 more second between shots ... it's using that second to drive over to the next victim.

 

And no, "real shotgun" pellets are not known to be a riccochet problem because each pellet is soft and relatively light. When they hit an object they either imbed or they deform and fall to the ground. What bullstuff.

 

And Isida was fine as it was,  Most players thought it sucked but real Isida players knew how to use it. I really don't care about the self-healing but I do care about the drastic change to the entire concept.  I have no confidence Tanki knows what they are doing.  

 

Just look at Shaft.  This is what?  The 4th time in a half year it has been redesigned? Just look at how they ruined Vulcan last week.

Edited February 15, 2017 by LittleWillie

[Mofuka 30]

Increasing also mean improving, that's pretty misleading. I thought that they will be making the time between shots shorter, otherwise there would not be "BUT'" for the second part of the sentence:

 

"increasing the reload speed between shots, BUT reloading your clip will take longer"

 

Either I'm right, or it's very poorly written.

 

They way it's written now means exactly that they will be improving the reload speed.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Mofuka

[SDstenix 2]

I have 2 m2 turrets isida and hammer i just mu isida m2 half the way to m3 and you nerf it.When i saw the patch i was excited i thought isida would be buffed since you nerfed it again like 3 months ago and you removed self healing come on now i understand hammer but why isida

[Maf 32,300]

because taste is something that people like

For Isida they never get what most of the Isida players asked for in order to balance it.

(and no, most of them did not ask for more damage; not 2 years ago, not 2 months ago, and not 2 days ago)

Pff, RIDDLER_8 did. And everyone knows that Riddler's sacred wishes must be obeyed!

[Tani_S 736]

By the way, the Isida M2 alt. is in a way similar to those alterations that have a reduced damage output (by lower damage or slower shooting), but in exchange for this can fire longer and in the end more, like Rico's M1 alt., Vulcan's M2 alt. and Hammer's M2 alt. (the last one is OP tho, because there is no longer reload between the shots).

Oh no, I shouldn't have said that, because now it was changed this way :mellow: I didn't expect Hazel to change the structure of an alteration  :ph34r:  :wacko:

 

Hammer

 

Please note that this change will increase the negative effect of the alteration "High capacity drum." Moreover, the time between shots will be increased for this alteration.

This is the first time that not only numbers of an alteration will be changed, but also an negative additional parameter will be added to it  :(  

[falcosenna1 8,320]

The primary function of Isida is being a medic, so to me it seems reasonable that its healing capacities have been buffed. Another good thing is buffing its DPM making it have the highest DPM of all close-range turrets. The loss of the self-healing mechanism doesn't feel like a big loss to me. The 10% was hardly noticeable. Hence I'd prefer to have a higher DPM without self-healing over a lower DPM with self-healing.

 

Hammer was indeed quite OP. I think the changes are and aren't a nerf at the same time to some extent. It doesn't lose any power. It just loses more power with every bullet missed. That ain't a real problem to me. The longer reload time is a minor nerf indeed while it's not that big of an issue to me. I'm not a fan of the ricocheting pellets. Don't give mechanics to turrets that were unique for a certain other turret. That's not a good thing. It reduces uniqueness of turrets. Their working mechanisms start being too similar.

 

Shaft was rather unpopular lately. Tomorrow's changes will somehow make it a bit like how it used to be before the big rebalance, a shaft being able to kill a medium tank with 1 shot. The counterpart is a longer reload time which is quite normal I think. Shaft has always been meant to be a sniper so it ain't bad at all to reduce the power of arcade shots in accordance to the distance between you and your opponent.

Edited February 15, 2017 by falcosenna1

[Tani_S 736]

To compensate for the removal of the self-healing mechanic, the update will greatly increased Isida’s damage, giving it the highest DPM among the other close-combat weapons Freeze and Firebird. And to make targeting easier, we’ll also be narrowing its attack cone slightly. There will also be changes in Isida’s Alterations.

Can somebody explain this logic to me please?  :huh:

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Pff, RIDDLER_8 did. And everyone knows that Riddler's sacred wishes must be obeyed!

+1 for your ironic answer combined with a little sidekick ;)

[falcosenna1 8,320]

Can somebody explain this logic to me please?  :huh:

It also sounds contradictory to me. :p

[Mofuka 30]

Can somebody explain this logic to me please?  :huh:

There is again no logic. How will make the targeting easier, if you narrow the cone?  :blink: 

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Increasing reload speed means it will take longer.

As an example, if your reload speed is 5 seconds, you need to wait for 5s before your gun to charge up. If it gets increased to 6s, it will take more time for it to reload.

Tanki reload bar shows how much "energy" is left. It is 1000 if it is full. In the wiki you also find the term "energy consumption" for some turrets. Firebird has a energy consumption of 200/sec, which means that it takes 5 seconds of constant fire to use up the energy.

 

The reload speed is  [energy reloaded -per- second].

If the speed is increased, then it reloads more energy points ther second, and the reload will take less seconds to fill up completely.

 

They just used a misleading term.. thats all

[stanzhang 3,291]

In a game that is balanced by diversity, the players will be forced out of using the turrets that they love on a regular base, even if those turrets and hulls are balanced by power.

No one force you to use any weapon, some weapon are better than others on certain map, so you need to adapt your gameplay.

 

Balance by diversity is a very dangerous paradigm.

No Supermarket would make your beloved icecream less tasty, in order to force you to buy more of the spinach-ice-cream, in order to "maintain the balance". They adapt the price (to make use of your favours) and still everyone is happy.

How can you compare Tanki to that? That is not even relevant, you can't compare a video game to some Ice cream. No supermarket will do that because they know they will get less income. In a supermarket, if an item is not being purchased by enough consumers, it will get removed or it will be redesigned completely. In a game, if an item is overused or overpowered, the devs will try to make that weapon less powerful for this game to be fair to everyone. If you take as example Clash Royale, every maybe 2 weeks they are nerfing and buffing cards to make the game balanced. People complains when facing a weapon which is OP and complains when an OP weapon get a nerf. So the developers with all the feedbacks from the players, are making a choice which seems right to them.

 

 

If you still try to have an equal amount of each turret htrough out the game, then you can achieve it only by one way:

Step 1: balance power

Step 2: monitor which turrets are played most (now only because players like them, not because they are more powerfull)How

How do you want them to know if players play this weapon because they like it or because it is OP?

Step 3: and then disbalance the power or anoy the owners of the overused turrets.

 

I am pretty sure that they do monitor which turrets are overused. You are saying contradicting things, you were complaining of turrets being buffed and you say at step 3 ''Step 3: and then disbalance the power or annoy the owners of the overused turrets.''

 

Edited February 15, 2017 by stanzhang

[Maf 32,300]

Actually, I think I stand corrected about Hammer changes. Looks like the time between shots was actually reduced, so Hammer shoots faster, but the overall reload time was increased, so it takes longer to reload between clips.

 

However, with the high capacity drum alteration the time between shots will be increased and the total reload time will be increased, so I think that with the alteration Hammer will have the same reload speed between shots, but longer overall reload. It's all very confusing, so I think it's best to wait until tomorrow :)

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Can somebody explain this logic to me please?  :huh:

In a bunch of enemy tanks you will esier hit the target you like.

 

Because with an Isida it is a great idea, to run close up to an enemy pack.

 

It will also make it easier to heal the tank you like (which was never a problem), but, unfortunately, it will make it harder to hit the friendly tank infront of you that tries to dodge other shots like crazy

[mugzi 30]

I stopped using my M3 Isida so much when it's self-healing was nerfed. Feeling dubious that you removed self-healing entirely! Can't one alteration be that it is able to self-heal?!?! The increase in damage will be interesting to try out, but now that Tanki is continuously adjusting all the turrets, it's difficult to know where to place one's valuable crystals for MU's.

 

As for Hammer, players have long felt it was out of balance. All the same, all these adjustments and the introduction of alterations are coming so rapidly at this point, it almost appears desperate. Income generation is what drives Tanki. People have to remember, the game was created to generate revenue! That being said, I don't want to see the need for increased profits continue to compromise a game anyone reading this loves to play. Having to keep up with the constant roll out of adjustments is wearisome, try leaving it alone for a fortnight or two!!

 

O_o

 

>...<

[deadmanrising 715]

 

Tankers!

 

With tomorrow’s release at 02:00 UTC, we’ll be updating the game with a few small but important changes in weapon balance.

 

This time, we’ll be making changes to Isida, Hammer and Shaft.

 

Isida

 

We want to make a bigger distinction between Isida’s roles of "fighter" and "medic". For this reason, we have completely removed self-healing. So, after the update, Isida will no longer be able to use "vampirism", which will fix the issue with exaggerated self-healing using supplies.

 

The second change is that after the update, the rate at which Isida’s energy bar is consumed, will depend on its target. If the turret is attacking an enemy, its energy pool will last for 5 seconds. But if it is healing a team member, its energy pool will last 10 seconds.

 

To compensate for the removal of the self-healing mechanic, the update will greatly increased Isida’s damage, giving it the highest DPM among the other close-combat weapons Freeze and Firebird. And to make targeting easier, we’ll also be narrowing its attack cone slightly. There will also be changes in Isida’s Alterations.

 

Hammer

 

Careful analysis of Hammer over a period of time has shown us that the weapon is too powerful when compared to other turrets. So, we'll be increasing the reload speed between shots, but reloading your clip will take longer.

 

Please note that this change will increase the negative effect of the alteration "High capacity drum." Moreover, the time between shots will be increased for this alteration.

 

The second important change is that we’ll be decreasing the number of pellets in each shot from 21 to 9. The damage and effect of the pellets that were removed, will be distributed among the remaining pellets, keeping Hammer’s power and damage unchanged.  However, with less pellets per shot, the cost of missing will now be higher, so players will now have to aim more carefully.

 

To make Hammer more interesting, we’ll also be giving it a new mechanic... ricocheting pellets. This emulates the shot from a real shotgun, where pellets will bounce off obstacles and inflict damage to careless enemies or even to the shooter if he/she is not careful. Note that unlike Ricochet’s projectiles, Hammer’s pellets will only bounce off obstacles once.

 

Ricocheting pellets gives Hammer new gameplay mechanics that were previously only available to owners of Ricochet. Imagine a Hammer that works like Ricochet, but fires 9 small charges instead of a single big one.

 

Shaft

 

We want to further emphasize Shaft’s role as an effective sniper, while still keeping it effective in close combat. For this reason, the Shaft’s maximum damage in sniper mode will be increased to a level that will allow it to one-shot kill medium tanks that are at the turret’s same upgrade level.

 

Additionally, the time for fully charging a shot will be increased by 1 second, while the energy gauge will take 2 seconds longer to fill up completely.

 

There will also be a few changes in arcade shooting mode. We will decrease the damage of arcade shots according to the distance from the target, like for Smoky and Thunder.

 

Finally, the movement speed for the sight and zoom in sniper mode will be slowed down slightly to make them more manageable.

So, make sure you log into the game tomorrow after 02:00 UTC and check out the changes from this update. For more details, please check the Patch Notes.

So you have nerfed isda completely, theres going to be a massive backlash from both the russian and english community for this, self healing makes isida fun as an opponent, now you've killed it im not sure it will be fun versing isdas anymore

 

increased reloading for hammer again, your careful analysis for hammer is a bit over stretched, its already difficult enough for me to make kills compared to other turrets, now i have to wait even longer to fire all 3 shots, by the time i do, i would already be dead, but at least you increased loading between shots, which was long needed

 

Shaft is now overpowered again, but i will never take interest in that turret until that laser is removed

 

Ill have to test the update to see if hammer is overpowered or underpowered

 

But you should bring back self healing, i know a great deal of data analysis has been done, but without self healing for isida it will be an unfair weapon to face, also the most frustrating, instead i would suggest you decrease the healing rate for isida and the self healing rate for users using isida while balancing damage, that would make the game more balanced

 

Also i believe isida was already balanced, it wasn't that bad after you initially lowered damage to it and gave it a wider healing area

[stanzhang 3,291]

I stopped using my M3 Isida so much when it's self-healing was nerfed. Feeling dubious that you removed self-healing entirely! Can't one alteration be that it is able to self-heal?!?! The increase in damage will be interesting to try out, but now that Tanki is continuously adjusting all the turrets, it's difficult to know where to place one's valuable crystals for MU's.

 

Isida is going to do more damage then firebird and freeze in DPM. It will become really powerful.

[Bydo 20,120]

wow .. i guess there stock is needing to be changed around again..

 

.. when they do any up dates this is time to rotate garage items to buy...

 

example: so others can understand my strange way of thinking...

 

basically its rotating stock for us to buy or use different ones in battles and not sticking to the same turret .. it would be hard if the battles were all one turret in games.. how about battling in a DM with all fire-birds or rails ...this way we get a selection of mixed battles...and we as players buy new turrets or use ones just collecting dust in our garages  ...

Edited February 15, 2017 by frozen_heart

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Ummm.. guys? Why are you saying that Isida is nerfed, while it's damage will now be higher than Freeze damage?

 

Because you are cutting down it's firing time to 5 seconds, which means two things.

 

1) My total potential damage / reload is cut. That's a nerf.

2) If I miss my firing arc or am out of range that will deplete my tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny 5 sedond firing time. It's a nerf.

2a) You are reducing firing arc which means it is easier to miss. It's a nerf.

 

 

Seriously? It was 10% already! Have you played Isida recently? Self-healing is not key feature, it is as if it's not even there!

Then why was it decided to remove it if it was not a problem?  Hmm?  Hmm?.

 

Lol, why "Bye Bye Isida"? It's gonna have the highest DPM among Fire and Freeze now. :D

It already haes if you learn to engane those turret at Isida's  maximum range. Isda damage does not reduce over range but theirs does. I kill Fire and freeze now all the time. But that takes, you know, skill and knowledge ... short commodities in Tanki.

 

 

What are you doing about the alteration to double self healing that people bought? (myself included)

 

Who knows but you can be sure the narrowing of the firing arc is to force players to buy the m1 alteration ... which stomps on range.  Isida needs range but the Tanki devs do not understand their own game.

 

They do understand to make massive changes the day after a sal though ... get players to waste Crystals and real money on an item then change it hte next day.  We;'ve seen this show more than once before.

 

Anyone who pays real money to Tanki is a chump.

 

 

How long till they introduce Alterations that can bring the old features of Hammer and Isida back at 100k per step?

 

Tomorrow. See above.

 

Wow!! hammer definitely needed this nerf

Except is is not a nerf. What Hammer needed  was simple. A dramatic reduction of maximum damage. It certainly did not need the additional capability of ricochet.

 

(Actually a lot of these problems would not exist if Tanki did that the stupid and unimaginative DD and DA supplies.  They ruin their own game because they refuse to get rid or redesign the supplies. )

 

Can somebody explain this logic to me please?  :huh:

Yes. When you say one thing but mean another that is called a "lie". Tanki lies to us all the time. 

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

 

In a game that is balanced by diversity, the players will be forced out of using the turrets that they love on a regular base, even if those turrets and hulls are balanced by power.

No one force you to use any weapon, some weapon are better than others on certain map, so you need to adapt your gameplay.

 

Balance by diversity is a very dangerous paradigm.

No Supermarket would make your beloved icecream less tasty, in order to force you to buy more of the spinach-ice-cream, in order to "maintain the balance". They adapt the price (to make use of your favours) and still everyone is happy.

How can you compare Tanki to that? That is not even relevant, you can't compare a video game to some Ice cream. No supermarket will do that because they know they will get less income. In a supermarket, if an item is not being purchased by enough consumers, it will get removed or it will be redesigned completely. In a game, if an item is overused or overpowered, the devs will try to make that weapon less powerful for this game to be fair to everyone. If you take as example Clash Royale, every maybe 2 weeks they are nerfing and buffing cards to make the game balanced. People complains when facing a weapon which is OP and complains when an OP weapon get a nerf. So the developers with all the feedbacks from the players, are making a choice which seems right to them.

 

 

If you still try to have an equal amount of each turret htrough out the game, then you can achieve it only by one way:

Step 1: balance power

Step 2: monitor which turrets are played most (now only because players like them, not because they are more powerfull)How

How do you want them to know if players play this weapon because they like it or because it is OP?

Step 3: and then disbalance the power or anoy the owners of the overused turrets.

 

I am pretty sure that they do monitor which turrets are overused. You are saying contradicting things, you were complaining of turrets being buffed and you say at step 3 ''Step 3: and then disbalance the power or annoy the owners of the overused turrets.''

 

 

Not beeing forced:

In games that try to balance for diversity as prio 1 (and therefore sacrifice balance of power) the balance changes are ment to make players change the turret they use. Think about it.

 

It seems hte comparsim was.. too creative.

A supermarket would piss off their customers (therefore they dont do it). Tanki does do it and p*sses off their players. I hope that cleared it up.

 

For the rest of your arguments I kindly ask you to read my post again, because from your answers I could imagine you misunderstood quite parts of it. Feel free to come back a day later, if it still did no clear up.

[Tani_S 736]

 

 

So you have nerfed isda completely, theres going to be a massive backlash from both the russian and english community for this, self healing makes isida fun as an opponent, now you've killed it im not sure it will be fun versing isdas anymore

 

increased reloading for hammer again, your careful analysis for hammer is a bit over stretched, its already difficult enough for me to make kills compared to other turrets, now i have to wait even longer to fire all 3 shots, by the time i do, i would already be dead, but at least you increased loading between shots, which was long needed

 

Shaft is now overpowered again, but i will never take interest in that turret until that laser is removed

 

Ill have to test the update to see if hammer is overpowered or underpowered

 

But you should bring back self healing, i know a great deal of data analysis has been done, but without self healing for isida it will be an unfair weapon to face, also the most frustrating, instead i would suggest you decrease the healing rate for isida and the self healing rate for users using isida while balancing damage, that would make the game more balanced

 

Also i believe isida was already balanced, it wasn't that bad after you initially lowered damage to it and gave it a wider healing area

 

 

 

lol I think you completely misinterpreted these balance changes:

• Isida was buffed -> the numbers will show this
• Hammer was nerfed, especially the m2 alt.
• Shaft is no clear buff/nerf, just even more differences between snipe and arcade mode. Snipe mode will be about like the current M2 alteration. I'd rather think it's a nerf than a buff.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Tani_S

[deadmanrising 715]

Good God. Tanki's gone absolutely insane.

 

It took you a long time of careful analysis to see Hammerr is OP?  It is OP because of it's damage level and you are not changing that! Hammer is OP because it drives around with DD up 1-shotting everything it meets.  So what if it takes 1 more second between shots ... it's using that second to drive over to the next victim.

 

And no, "real shotgun" pellets are not known to be a riccochet problem because each pellet is soft and relatively light. When they hit an object they either imbed or they deform and fall to the ground. What bullstuff.

 

And Isida was fine as it was,  Most players thought it sucked but real Isida players knew how to use it. I really don't care about the self-healing but I do care about the drastic change to the entire concept.  I have no confidence Tanki knows what they are doing.  

 

Just look at Shaft.  This is what?  The 4th time in a half year it has been redesigned? Just look at how they ruined Vulcan last week.

Please play at my rank and above (if you already do) hammer can't one shot wasp or hornet even at m4, i have 5 shots m4 hammer i have to hit my target precisely in order to make a kill, hammer before this update was underpowered because of the decreasing of reloading and before modules it had no advantage compared to other turrets unless it was m4

 

At lower ranks, hammer is overpowered at some point, if you can afford m1 or m2 at the lower ranks, you have a clear advantage over others who may not be able to afford the same equipment, without drugs, hammer is balanced, with drugs, its as lethal as any other turret

 

But i will have to test it to see which turret is overpowered and which isn't

 

Not surprising, tanki will always overpower some turrets and nerf others just to fit the flow of the game

[Pink_Legacy 269]

I'm actually quite happy with this update. It was time they got rid of self-healing, it was just a joke, and I appreciate isida having a better DPS. I just hope that five seconds isn't too short.

 

I really like the idea of less pellets and having them riccochet. It might still be overpowered because, as others have said, the main issue is its damage, but I think its new gameplay might be interesting.

 

I've got mixed feelings on shaft. On the one hand, the sniping mode will be more powerful. On the other hand, shaft users might stop focusing especially on light hulls and go for medium hulls as well, which is good for me. I also like that the damage of its arcade mode is reduced at long distance.

 

Overall, I'm quite chuffed with the changes. I hope that they work out all right.

[Skepta 405]

Self-healing will definately be one of Isida's M3 alterations. Mark my words.

[deadmanrising 715]

 

lol I think you completely misinterpreted these balance changes:

• Isida was buffed -> the numbers will show this
• Hammer was nerfed, especially the m2 alt.
• Shaft is no clear buff/nerf, just even more differences between snipe and arcade mode. Snipe mode will be about like the current M2 alteration. I'd rather think it's a nerf than a buff.

 

Isida was more balanced at higher ranks, maybe not so much at lower ranks, it was buffed up to a certain point, without self healing, theres no clear advantage, also isida and hornet is now history

 

Shaft should now be overpowered, since by default it will be able to one shot medium tanks

 

Hammer was nerfed a bit at higher ranks, for lower ranks it probably wasn't