Patch Update #441 - Changes to Isida, Hammer and Shaft, and other changes

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

So basically Hammer got 5 changes:

 

Stock turret:

1.  Faster reload between shots 
2.  Slower Clip reload
3.  Hammer Ricochet effect  with self-damage  :huh:
4.  More range dependency by reducing the no. of pellets in one shot from 21 to 9

Alteration (all changes of the above affect the alt. of course too, especially the slower clip reload multiplied):

       5.   Slower reload between shots as an additional disadvantage

I think the fewer pellets have no impact on range;

If the distribution pattern inside the angle has not changed, then you will deal the same damage statistically.

 

2 small pellets close to tank border, one hits, one doesnt <-> 1 large pellet, it hits

2 small pellets close to tank border, one hits, one doesnt <-> 1 large pellet, it misses

 

as the distribution patter around the edge of the tank (close by shot) does not change, it should make no difference over time

 

 

IMHO the main reason for the reduced pellet number, is lag:

less pellets -> less data to be calculated (hit, no hit, impact where, ..) and less data to be transmitted over the net

Edited February 15, 2017 by BlackWasp777

[falcosenna1 8,320]

I know. But LittleWillie mentioned "connection drops" as well, which is why I quoted that update.

Great quote in that case. :wub:  :wub: 

[Maf 32,300]

Yeah i did see that.  One sentence in the past 6 months.  

Because that's the only visible lag update that affects players. The rest of them were not worth being mentioned in the news since it's not important to most players. I'm certain that over 90% of the work related to "fixing" lag is based on code, and only people with programming and coding experience would be able to understand what developers actually did, if they were to announce every step of their lag improvement progress.

[matz316 7]

It's not broken, but it isn't perfect either. These frequent balance changes are necessary to fix overpowered guns (like Hammer), adjust parameters to make alterations more suitable and generally add variety to the game. It's necessary to keep the game going.

 

Lag and connection drops are an ever-present issue. Devs are working on it all the time and it's not just a single problem that can be solved. We will never see an update topic titled "Lag and connection drops eliminated!" because that's simply not how it works.

I'm sorry but these frequent balance changes not are necessary to keep the game going. The frequency of them latley is ridiculous and are only creating mistrust amongst players towards tanki. No one wants to spend their time, crystals and/or money on something only to find a week later it is not the same thing as what they payed for.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Clans have added crippling levels of lag in the literal sense. People have been unable to log on much less play,

 

And clans have benefitted virtually no one. I went through my friends list with over a hundred maybe two hundred names on it.  There were 2-3 clan members.  I look at chat screens and in-battle rosters ... maybe - MAYBE - 2% of accounts are in a clan.

 

2% get can chat.  100% suffer from it.

 

So tell me again Tanki's priorities are in the right place? The only way that would be true is if Tanki is teetering on the brink of insolvency and is desperate for those $36 clan license to stay afloat.

[Bydo 20,121]

I know. But LittleWillie mentioned "connection drops" as well, which is why I quoted that update.

 

The thing is, devs added a TON of stuff to the game over the years, and if they ignored lag and connection issues and didn't work on them, the game would have broken down a long time ago. But now the game may still have the same level of lag and some issues as back in 2011, but it also has all these new resource-intensive features (clans, missions, friends, etc.), none of which could have been implemented if devs did nothing to optimise and fix the game.

well here is just this weekends issues and still the same thing and yea i cleared out the cache many a times .. also i get it that what go's into there system something has to come out .. its like rotating there inventory ( in put - out put rams or gigabits )

 

 

Edited February 15, 2017 by frozen_heart

[Maf 32,300]

I'm sorry but these frequent balance changes not are necessary to keep the game going. The frequency of them latley is ridiculous and are only creating mistrust amongst players towards tanki. No one wants to spend their time, crystals and/or money on something only to find a week later it is not the same thing as what they payed for.

Then I'm afraid such players will either have to get used to it or find a different game. Hazel clearly said that he doesn't plan on stopping or reducing the frequency of these updates because without them a game will very quickly lose its player base. I don't have time to find the exact post where he said it, but you can look through his profile to find it if you're interested.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Because that's the only visible lag update that affects players. The rest of them were not worth being mentioned in the news since it's not important to most players. I'm certain that over 90% of the work related to "fixing" lag is based on code, and only people with programming and coding experience would be able to understand what developers actually did, if they were to announce every step of their lag improvement progress.

"Lag is not important to most players."  I've said before Tanki did not understand its own game. Here's your proof.

 

If all these efforts are really goiung on why don't they take amoment to mention them in VLOG?  They filrm the thing already.

 

Yeah in August when I started I was not beset by crippling lag. Today I am. It is ruining gameplay. Read the chat windows.  I am not alone.

 

Let me simplify things for you.

 

Tanki wants me to spend money.

 

When I thought tanki was a good comapny I did send money. I believe is supporting a good game comapny.

 

Tanki has lied to me too many times and has made too many odd changes fpr me to support them with money any more.  The deial of lag as a problem is a flat out guarantee I will not be a paying customer/

Edited February 15, 2017 by LittleWillie

[dont_you 70]

Do you have the change numbers?

Shaft current damage at M4 is 2400, charge time 2.1 seconds and reload time 6 seconds. 2400 / ( 2.1 + 6 ) = 296 DPS

 

After rebalance it will have 3000 damage, charge time 3.1 seconds and reload of 8 seconds. 3000 / ( 3.1 + 8 ) = 270 DPS

 

That's a 9% reduction in damage. But I guess shaft was a bit OP since previous rebalance, so it might be ok.

[XxPAXI2xX 169]

Why do you not add SERBIA`s flag? Why are Turkey, and other flags more important? I dont think that thats a good example of racism... Yeah,yeah, "we will add them later and thats not the point as racism and discriminating countries, we just dont got time now" or sort of excuse. And you had time for other countries. Well no. You had time for them, you need to have it for others. Just add all the countries that are Tanki players registred as. Im sure that you know excactly from what country is every single player from this game. Dont discriminate other players as not having right to show their nationality. I hope you got the point. I understand that clan system is still in kinda Beta stage, but im pleasing you, add all flags. Thank you

Edited February 15, 2017 by XxPAXI2xX

[muffinman360 74]

[falcosenna1 8,320]

Why do you not add Serbias flag? Why are Turkey, and other flags more important? I dont think that thats a good example of racism... Yeah,yeah, "we will add them later", you better add them all in the same time then 1 by 1 because of unknown reason. Dont discriminate other countries as not having right to show their nationality. I hope you got the point.

They really don't intent to discriminate you. :) They have probably just forgotten to add Serbias flag. :p

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Then I'm afraid such players will either have to get used to it or find a different game. Hazel clearly said that he doesn't plan on stopping or reducing the frequency of these updates because without them a game will very quickly lose its player base. I don't have time to find the exact post where he said it, but you can look through his profile to find it if you're interested.

It was a vlog where they said that the changes will be more frequent, but with lower impact.

I apriciate that.

 

For a vulcan user it is much more bearable, if his damage is reduced by 5% (not noticeable) then if there are big changes by -20% (like it was done to vulcan recently, if Iam not mistaken). Small changes = good.

 

Shaft received no small change here.. +1second is a lot. 4x 0,25seconds; spread out over 3 months would be far less impact for the players.. and would maybe be so small, that tanki could say "if we change something by less then 5% in a month, we do not announce it large. you can find it in the wiki, bit there is no big deal about it".

And after each change the players would have 1 month to see if it's truely "thaaaaaattt bad" and again "broke tanki" (like 20 times before).

This would work better. Slower, but better.

 

Isisda got no small changes. Isida just becomes a new kind of turret.

Edited February 15, 2017 by BlackWasp777

[wolverine848 13,097]

Shaft current damage at M4 is 2400, charge time 2.1 seconds and reload time 6 seconds. 2400 / ( 2.1 + 6 ) = 296 DPS

 

After rebalance it will have 3000 damage, charge time 3.1 seconds and reload of 8 seconds. 3000 / ( 3.1 + 8 ) = 270 DPS

 

That's a 9% reduction in damage. But I guess shaft was a bit OP since previous rebalance, so it might be ok.

I'm not understanding your math...

 

Why are you dividing by 2400 by 8.1?  The first shot can be fired in 2.1 seconds right?

Second shot fired in... 10.2 seconds?  For a total of 4800 dmg?

 

And of course a scope followed by arcade would be faster than 10.2...

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Those are different things you tank about.

 

DPS/DPM (how much damage = score can I deal in average over a timeframe) is a value calcuated by the cycle time.. and the cylce is charge-shoot-reload-/-charge-shoot-reload-/-charge-shoot-reload..

 

The things you wolverine think about are more usefull for a time-to-kill (TTK) calcuation (how fast can I kill someone in a 1-vs-1 encounter on the field)

[Tani_S 736]

I'm not understanding your math...

 

Why are you dividing by 2400 by 8.1?  The first shot can be fired in 2.1 seconds right?

Second shot fired in... 10.2 seconds?  For a total of 4800 dmg?

 

And of course a scope followed by arcade would be faster than 10.2...

He is talking of the DPS and not the time to kill, so then you have to divide the damage by reload+charge time. However, the charge is 3 sec. and not 2.1 sec. and the change will increase it by 1.

The 3000 are a minimum damage on m4 in order to kill a medium hull, it could be also the case that it is 3200 or so. If it is 3200 then the M2 alt. can also oneshot a heavy hull, so this would make more sense. Previously it was the main advantage of m2 alt. to oneshot a medium hull, which is not necessary anymore.

[wolverine848 13,097]

And please, dear isida users... stop crying as actually isida was *buffed*

 

Highest DPS plus longer healing time... in team battles, a pair of isidas cooperating together will be unstoppable.

We will need to see what specifically the increased DPS is.  We don't know if it will offset the smaller fuel (attack) tank and no self healing at all.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Why do you not add SERBIA`s flag? Why are Turkey, and other flags more important? I dont think that thats a good example of racism... Yeah,yeah, "we will add them later and thats not the point as racism and discriminating countries, we just dont got time now" or sort of excuse. And you had time for other countries. Well no. You had time for them, you need to have it for others. Just add all the countries that are Tanki players registred as. Im sure that you know excactly from what country is every single player from this game. Dont discriminate other players as not having right to show their nationality. I hope you got the point. I understand that clan system is still in kinda Beta stage, but im pleasing you, add all flags. Thank you

noone says that the turkish flag is more imporatant; there are simply more turkish players here that stand up and complain.

This has also nothing to do with racism

 

If they would prirorize then it would be a marketing decision (largest markets first). As an instance I would really like to buy a special croatian skin-cream for the aftermath of beeing sunburned, because it is great. Much better then anything in the rest of central Europe. But it is not sold in my country. This is sad for me.. but for sure no racsim.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Those are different things you tank about.

 

DPS/DPM (how much damage = score can I deal in average over a timeframe) is a value calcuated by the cycle time.. and the cylce is charge-shoot-reload-/-charge-shoot-reload-/-charge-shoot-reload..

 

The things you wolverine think about are more usefull for a time-to-kill (TTK) calcuation (how fast can I kill someone in a 1-vs-1 encounter on the field)

But... charge-shoot-reload-charge-shoot is in reality a "full cycle" - then would be repeated as needed correct? Two shots within a full cycle.

 

So... 2.1+shoot+6+2.1+shoot = 4800 dmg in 10.2 seconds giving a DPS of 470, as opposed to 270. 

[Fresh 2,390]

isida looked like an exaggeration

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

But... charge-shoot-reload-charge-shoot is in reality a "full cycle" - then would be repeated as needed correct? Two shots within a full cycle.

 

So... 2.1+shoot+6+2.1+shoot = 4800 dmg in 10.2 seconds giving a DPS of 470, as opposed to 270. 

if it would be a cycle, then the next step after the cycles end would be fhe first step of the cycle.

like: "charge-shoot-reload-charge-shoot"-"charge-shoot-reload-charge-shoot"

         ^ but this does not work.

 

After "charge-shoot-reload-charge-shoot" you are empty and can not charge. So this can not be the cylce.

 

It is TTK (or in other words: damage output over time until my enemy is done) what you are after.

Edited February 15, 2017 by BlackWasp777

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

And please, dear isida users... stop crying as actually isida was *buffed*

see it from this angle:

There are mulitple types of isida players:

- some play it on drugs as unstoppable killing machine (oh they might be pleased now..)

- some play tactical healer (they are f*ked up, as they can not take care for themselfes)

 

 

Highest DPS plus longer healing time... in team battles, a pair of isidas cooperating together will be unstoppable.

This is actually not a good change, if a turret becomes unstoppable if two of them pair up, isn't it?

 

If Isida players would have loved high damage output in 5sec time, then they would have purchased a firebird right from the start.

[Tomas_cz 63]

"We want to make a bigger distinction between Isida’s roles of "fighter" and "medic". [...] If the turret is attacking an enemy, its energy pool will last for 5 seconds. But if it is healing a team member, its energy pool will last 10 seconds."

 

- This is not a bigger distinction, this is ruining the fighter role. (By the way, you could have also achieved the same distinction by keeping the energy at 10 for attacking, and increasing it to 20 for healing.)

 

Never mind, but I would like to know when will the daily missions and other special events (e.g. the Valentine Day contest) finally start to reflect the fact that Isida is much more "medic" than "figher"? Otherwise it is not fair compared to tanks whose only role is to shoot enemies, and which obviously have much higher chances / faster progress in missions like "300 points in DM", "50 kills" and so on (while there are no missions like "gain 300 points with healing" etc. for players who actively use Isida).

[dont_you 70]

However, the charge is 3 sec. and not 2.1 sec. and the change will increase it by 1.

You are right. So it is like:

 

Shaft current damage at M4 is 2400, charge time 3 seconds and reload time 6 seconds. 2400 / ( 3 + 6 ) = 266 DPS

 

After rebalance it will have 3000 damage, charge time 4 seconds and reload of 8 seconds. 3000 / ( 4 + 8 ) = 250 DPS

 

That's a 6% reduction in theoretical damage.

 

The TTK that wolverine848 wants to know (assuming a cycle  "charge-shoot-reload-charge-shoot") changed as:

 

Current: 2400 * 2 in 3+6+3 seconds = 4800 in 12 seconds

 

Rebalance: 3000 * 2 in 4+8+4 seconds = 6000 in 16 seconds

[Phoenix.Raised 5,992]

Why do you not add SERBIA`s flag?

It's already there.