Patch Update #441 - Changes to Isida, Hammer and Shaft, and other changes

[Quincie 531]

Not only you, But everyone in this game faces this type of problems. I agree that shaft is OP but considering it's minor usage. It is fair that the weapon has received some buff to it's damage. Everyone now and then weapons need a little buff to make them equal and adaptive to the rest of the weapons. Maybe this time the damage has been increase, maybe next it will decrease. You never know. The thing you need to do is get used to these and counter shafts. Shaft's weakness are many. Like it can no longer go long in vertical/horizontal aim. Cut around edges to make it difficult for them to hit you. Just as that learn to defend yourself against different weapons. Just wonder devs nerf shaft. What will the effect be on shaft's users ? obviously negative feedback. So as there's two sides of everycoin. The update has it's own pros and cons.

[redlinezak 11]

I kind of agree - I personally think a shaft being able to 1 shot a medium hull is too extreme and harms gameplay a little too much.  I think that a medium hull should be able to move around (take the example in highways) and not be a camper but the high threat from Shaft now makes that very difficult.

One shotting a light hull is fine as that the risk you take for the speed of the hull but a med hull should not be subject to the same threat.  Capping with a heavy hull is pretty much a no go in a lot of the bigger maps which makes gameplay a bit stagnant.  If meds were 2 shots or even 1 and a half i think it would allow better gameplay in the bigger maps and allow the medium hulls to go a wandering a bit more freely.

[Akame 4,580]

Exactly. I'm pwning nugs at the below WO1 ranks with Shaft on my alt xd tho I prefer a versatile playstyle even with Shaft (in this case, holding flag area when rushed, controlling important areas, or going into enemy base to troll em. Isida's also threatening but you'd want to be skilled, else even a Shaft with Arcade shots will blow you to death :P

Try kill my m2 titan at WO1 with 12% shaft prot :P no shaft has every dropped me below even 50%

[Benefactor 6,888]

It seems they found a balance to Shaft as it is doing what it is supposed to do. Highest damage in one shot, but the reload time is snail-like. The Arcade Shot is no longer OP (same damage all distances - which I really liked before they nerfed it). It would be totally OP if the beam was removed. You may need to resort to "Wild Weasel" / "Here kitty kitty" tactics to get at Shaft now. Could be fun!

[wolverine848 13,097]

The point still stands. You do damage faster. Doing less damage at a faster rate is better than doing more damage at a slower rate, especially since the hull with the highest HP in the game at M3 has slightly less than 3500 HP.

You do less damage overall.

If you run into enemy with protection you can't win - your energy pool runs out and enemy will still damage you.

 

If you try to heal and then attack it's also game over. You might have a couple seconds of energy before running out.

 

The 5 / 10 second energy pool is a large nerf for the Isida.

[fordmustang12345 3,910]

Agreed. I've got a couple alts and they scare the crap out of me. Also Monte Carlo is unplayable unless you have Shaft....

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

When I play an Isida on an M4 Wasp; charge fast towards an enemy's back for a kill or close of a friend's back to heal him, and I do have to BRAKE HARD (to not block or bump someone), then my tank's nose gets down so much that the new Isida aiming cone is not wide enough to keep the target in the cone (even it he would be in range). I literary aim into the ground.

 

Please widen the cone up vertically, ty

Edited February 21, 2017 by BlackWasp777

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Much of my disgust for Tanki's recent Isida changes is the dishonest way they are described.

 

---

 

"We want to make a bigger distinction between Isida’s roles of “fighter” and “medic”. For this reason, we have completely removed self-healing. So, after the update, Isida will no longer be able to use “vampirism”, which will fix the issue with exaggerated self-healing using supplies."

 

---

 

This is just nonsense reasoning. OTOH this is an example of valid reasoning. Vampirizm is hard to balance due to the multimplying effect of the DA/DD supplies. Many players here have said just that. So why the nonsense about "roles".

 

---

 

"To compensate for the removal of the self-healing mechanic, the update will greatly increased Isida’s damage, giving it the highest DPM among the other close-combat weapons Freeze and Firebird. And to make targeting easier, we’ll also be narrowing its attack cone slightly. There will also be changes in Isida’s Alterations"

 

--

 

"Greatly"? Very misleading. The actual boost was +20%. 

 

"Highest DPM ... Fire and Freeze". This is a true statement but still misleading. Isida's DPM is about 102% of the other two, The casual reader / average player thinks "super-powerful!". The player who does teh math says, "Meh".

 

To make targeting easier" is a flat out lie. A narrower cone makes targeting of both friend and foe harder. 

 

---

 

I expect a company to try to make a good impression but really - honesty and clarity are essential parts of that process. Be optimistic Tanki, yes, but be honest too. 

Edited February 21, 2017 by LittleWillie

[Truthteller 4,204]

Shaft is amazing but is limited to few big maps if you don't want to see them then don't join those maps, problem solved.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Not only you, But everyone in this game faces this type of problems. I agree that shaft is OP but considering it's minor usage. It is fair that the weapon has received some buff to it's damage. Everyone now and then weapons need a little buff to make them equal and adaptive to the rest of the weapons. Maybe this time the damage has been increase, maybe next it will decrease. You never know. The thing you need to do is get used to these and counter shafts. Shaft's weakness are many. Like it can no longer go long in vertical/horizontal aim. Cut around edges to make it difficult for them to hit you. Just as that learn to defend yourself against different weapons. Just wonder devs nerf shaft. What will the effect be on shaft's users ? obviously negative feedback. So as there's two sides of everycoin. The update has it's own pros and cons.

What's the OP gonna do in this case?

 

"Today I played the Tribute map using the Dic hull, I spawned 8 times and every single time got killed with a single shot from shaft before I had moved a single tank length."

 

It's horrible when you spawn in line-of-sight of enemy.

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

You do less damage overall.

If you run into enemy with protection you can't win - your energy pool runs out and enemy will still damage you.

 

If you try to heal and then attack it's also game over. You might have a couple seconds of energy before running out.

 

The 5 / 10 second energy pool is a large nerf for the Isida.

If you ran into an enemy with protection with old Isida, you would still die no matter how long your charge was, because the DPS was so low. Tanks are destroyed in seconds in this game. With the new Isida, you have shorter charge, but you would get in a lot more damage before you died because you deal damage faster. That is my whole point. 

 

Much of my disgust for Tanki's recent Isida changes is the dishonest way they are described.

 

This is just nonsense reasoning. OTOH this is an example of valid reasoning. Vampirizm is hard to balance due to the multimplying effect of the DA/DD supplies. Many players here have said just that. So why the nonsense about "roles".

 

"Greatly"? Very misleading. The actual boost was +20%. 

 

"Highest DPM ... Fire and Freeze". This is a true statement but still misleading. Isida's DPM is about 102% of the other two, The casual reader / average player thinks "super-powerful!". The player who does teh math says, "Meh".

 

To make targeting easier" is a flat out lie. A narrower cone makes targeting of both friend and foe harder. 

 

I expect a company to try to make a good impression but really - honesty and clarity are essential parts of that process. Be optimistic Tanki, yes, but be honest too. 

I disagree with a lot of this.

 

"Roles" are not nonsense. As you said earlier yourself, you cannot heal and attack at the same time because of the varying energy consumption. As an Isida user, you are forced to choose between attacking or healing. What the patch notes say are completely true.

 

I'm not even going to say anything about the damage because we've had quite the argument about it earlier and even when the "math" was laid out you ignore it. 

 

The narrower cone makes hitting an enemy harder, but gives you more precision. Here you're right, patch notes are poorly written. More precise aiming makes it easier to choose between allies to heal, but harder to lock on to enemies.

Edited February 21, 2017 by ThirdOnion

[RIDDLER_8 5,553]

Isida needs to have more healing power. It is still to weak. M4 Isida heals too slowly. Its healing parameter must be 840, like the damage.

 

Have a look at the image below:

 

 

My Isida is an M4 Isida.

 

Damage - 840

 

Healing - 504

 

The healing of M4 Isida must be 840 just like the damage is 840. To have a balanced Isida, it must have the same amount of damage and healing points.

 

So:

 

Damage - 840

 

Healing 840

 

Both must be the same.

 

Please take note of this and let the developers improve Isida's healing parameter.

Edited February 21, 2017 by RIDDLER_8

[RIDDLER_8 5,553]

Will Isida have an alteration for self-healing?

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Will Isida have an alteration for self-healing?

No. They said vamparism is not coming back.

 

Tanki wanted to rid Isida of vamparism. OK fine. Here's how it should have been done:

 

* Self-Heal from 10% to 0%

* DPS boosted by 10% to 15%  

* Healing boosted by 0% to 10%  (Some combination in these rangers is the "sweet spot")

 

Done. No fiddling with firing arc or energy consumption. 

 

It'd be nice if Tanki would give Isida alterations that did not make it even worse but I'd settle for a basic model that was not nerfed for no good reason.

[RIDDLER_8 5,553]

No. They said vamparism is not coming back.

 

Tanki wanted to rid Isida of vamparism. OK fine. Here's how it should have been done:

 

* Self-Heal from 10% to 0%

* DPS boosted by 10% to 15%  

* Healing boosted by 0% to 10%  (Some combination in these rangers is the "sweet spot")

 

Done. No fiddling with firing arc or energy consumption. 

 

It'd be nice if Tanki would give Isida alterations that did not make it even worse but I'd settle for a basic model that was not nerfed for no good reason.

Why did developers got rid of vampirism?

 

Vampirism is necessary for self-healing.

[Phoenix.Raised 5,992]

Why did developers got rid of vampirism?

 

Vampirism is necessary for self-healing.

Isida will no longer be able to use "vampirism", which will fix the issue with exaggerated self-healing using supplies.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Why did developers got rid of vampirism?

 

Vampirism is necessary for self-healing.

"Vamparism" is another term for self-healing. They are one and the same thing.

[Akame 4,580]

 

Isida needs to have more healing power. It is still to weak. M4 Isida heals too slowly. Its healing parameter must be 840, like the damage.

 

Have a look at the image below:

 

 

My Isida is an M4 Isida.

 

Damage - 840

 

Healing - 504

 

The healing of M4 Isida must be 840 just like the damage is 840. To have a balanced Isida, it must have the same amount of damage and healing points.

 

So:

 

Damage - 840

 

Healing 840

 

Both must be the same.

 

Please take note of this and let the developers improve Isida's healing parameter.

 

I'm sorry, 10 seconds of 508 gives 5080 hp, which is an m4 heavy and a quarter, and 5 seconds of 840 is 4200, which can kill an m4 heavy, please analyse all statistics carefully.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Akame

[Apex_Predator 537]

 

 

Isida needs to have more healing power. It is still to weak. M4 Isida heals too slowly. Its healing parameter must be 840, like the damage.

 

Have a look at the image below:

 

 

My Isida is an M4 Isida.

 

Damage - 840

 

Healing - 504

 

The healing of M4 Isida must be 840 just like the damage is 840. To have a balanced Isida, it must have the same amount of damage and healing points.

 

So:

 

Damage - 840

 

Healing 840

 

Both must be the same.

 

Please take note of this and let the developers improve Isida's healing parameter.

 

 

Why not make Damage 504 and make healing 840 ? after all, Isida main role is healing, NOT killing.

 

why not make Damage 504 and healing 504 as well ? because the new Isida is way OP just like the old one.

 

Riddler_8 would you stop treying to get the old Isida back ? i'm so so sick of it.  -_- 

 

Dovloppers now should nerf the new Isida.

[Akame 4,580]

Why not make Damage 504 and make healing 840 ? after all, Isida main role is healing, NOT killing.

 

why not make Damage 504 and healing 504 as well ? because the new Isida is way OP just like the old one.

 

Riddler_8 would you stop treying to get the old Isida back ? i'm so so sick of it.  -_- 

 

Dovloppers now should nerf the new Isida.

Ur first line actually sounds interesting, 2.5k ish for damage and 8400 healing sounds like an isida, although the healing seems OP, it would like negate much of the damage caused

[41tkbat 52]

So Tanki does it again. People investing in turrets and weapons for their possibilities and Tanki just changing them I wonder what the people of Tanki would say ik i would put a lighter engine in their car. Anti-social and completely without considering their customers. Unfortunately i am no longer surprised Tanki doeas not care about the players adn the things they OWN in their garage. The people of Tanki must have a serious development problem in civilisation manners and empathy.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Ur first line actually sounds interesting, 2.5k ish for damage and 8400 healing sounds like an isida, although the healing seems OP, it would like negate much of the damage caused

I've thought about why healing is lower than damage. It seems to me Tanki does not want a healer to be able to prevent killing just to slow it down considerably. This seems consistent with other healer concepts in other games.  The team's healers can keep the team standing for a good while. But eventually the energy runs out and/or the big offensive hitters overwhelm the healing.

 

When you think of how it'd play the other way around ... there would be very little killing indeed. It'd be akin to World War One trench warfare. A lott of explosions going off but little progress made ... stalemate.

[DDriggs00 7]

Firstly, I agree that Hammer DEFINITELY needed a nerf, although I really hate how they added the ricochet effect.  Hammer is not Ricochet.

 

I thought isida was balanced as it was (it maybe could have used a little more heal power), and I see no reason to buff (Most damage of a short range turret) it.

 

As for shaft, I thought it was already about perfect, so there was no need to buff it.

[Tani_S 736]

As this is a cone mechanism and not an auto-aim mechanism, making a different vertical cone compared to the horizontal would make the mechanism less consistent/standardized and that this will happen is rather unlikely. The cone nerf should get people to buy the M1 alt. (pattern of getting preupdate stat by alt.), but you have to consider that this one got nerfed by a -10° cone as well, so it's still not really convincing.

 

Isida's damage mag got nerfed and it is true that you have to choose now which mode you want to take, as you cannot use both efficiently. But basically there is not much to choose anymore, because you are not competitive with a short-ranger turret, that can just kill one tank and then wait a long time again, especially if you are not even able to damage multiple tanks at once (unlike Freeze and Fire). Isida was not and will not be able to compete with Freeze and Fire.

 

Here is an overview over the stats changes (omits selfhealing tho), if there are doubts about it:

 

 

Edited the preupdate Isida M2 alt.

 

As the so called vampirism is now removed and as it has a very limited range and as Isida is no stormtrooper, it doesn't make sense to go for a distinct attack. But if you still do it, then you better take a light hull to be able to either retreat quickly to reload again or go for a purposeful suicide attack in order to not waste your time reloading.

 

To me, healing seems to be the only real option for Isida that is left. And by chance it is an alteration that is better with it here (OTOH you have be sure that you don't need to damage someone if you take it).

 

Isida used to be a turret that if it advanced forward, then it came together with other tanks (for healing purposes), which means in general that it survives longer, which also means that you could unload your mag, especially if you mount it on a Viking like I do. Now it doesn't make much sense to switch between the modes, though I'd expect a two-mode-turret to be particular powerful if the two are combined, like it is with Striker.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Tani_S

[Pink_Legacy 269]

Why not make Damage 504 and make healing 840 ? after all, Isida main role is healing, NOT killing.

 

why not make Damage 504 and healing 504 as well ? because the new Isida is way OP just like the old one.

Maybe because playing isida in a bad team is already enough. You don't need to make it even more team-dependent. Maybe, just maybe, because with these changes isida will finally be able to do Death Matches again. Maybe because isida if its healing is less than the damage another tank takes (which is doubtful) isida might stop being always target number one.

 

I don't know, though. These are just a few hypotheses.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Pink_Legacy