Patch Update #441 - Changes to Isida, Hammer and Shaft, and other changes

[Tomas_cz 63]

 

"When you want to compare changes in a complex game like TO you need to start somewhere. If you want to add another layer (or more) to the calculation, please do it."

- I am just saying that your selective comparison does not prove much in relation to the overall gameplay or ability to survive.

"The tipping point would be when you reach the max damage for 5 seconds of the new turret."

- Exactly, and this is not an improvement, it is at best neutral.

 

"Isida interim was definitely worse than both Original and New. I agree with you in that."

- Erm, I nowhere said that. "Interim" Isida was definitely better than this.

 

"All I see is that you want to be killproof in any encounter"

- Sorry, but it was not me who said "So now you will have a loss of 13% for the new turret." and "the new version is more efficient (+30%) than the interim variant on a 5 second gameplay against hull with less than 3540." in the same post. Is new Isida better, or not? That is not too clear from your ambigous formulations. For me, the new one is definitely worse (both in regards to the attack power, and to the overall abilities).

 

"Hazel was very clear on it, Isida original was OP and this had to be changed."

- I don't know who is Hazel. Nevermind, more important thing is that as far as I can see, somehow no one bothered to explain what exactly was OP on the interim Isida. Where can I see the complaints from non-Isida tankers? Are these more frequent than complaints against other hulls?

 

Just a quick comparison, Striker is more dangerous, with 3880 damage per 4 seconds. Fair enough, but if this power is not a problem, why Isida with 2480 or 3360 per 4 seconds is a problem? And that Isida had 10% self-healing? Well, on the other hand all other tanks have the ability to damage/kill more tanks with one shot/attack.

 

Each tank is unique, and I'm all ears to finally find out what was supposedly wrong with Isida - would be definitely more interesting stuff to read than when TO hide nerfing behind words about "compensation" or "easier targeting".

 

If Isida is bound to healing now, all right, but then TO should finally launch daily missions for Isidas, focused specifically on healing or overall gameplay points (yes, the latter is avaiable already now, but for all hulls). Because missions like "kill 50 tanks" or "gain 300 points in DM" are now clear disadvantage for Isida, compared to all other hulls.

[Viking4s 10,791]

"Hazel was very clear on it, Isida original was OP and this had to be changed."

- I don't know who is Hazel. Nevermind, more important thing is that as far as I can see, somehow no one bothered to explain what exactly was OP on the interim Isida. Where can I see the complaints from non-Isida tankers? Are these more frequent than complaints against other hulls?

1.) "Hazel? Nevermind." wow, just wow.

2.) Original was OP, Interim was crap. New one is Meh. Just use it when situation is right, and don't use it when it's not appropriate.

"Where can I see the complaints from non-Isida tankers? Are these more frequent than complaints against other hulls?"

Simple read the forum. Aslo only one isida  (sometime none) is usually allowed during clan wars, so I will let you guess why.

 

Oh btw, striker is a very bad example, never compare short range turret versus long range.

My comparison was well define and in specific set parameters, you somehow extrapolate it to survival situation, which was clearly not my point.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Viking4s

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

2.) Original was OP, Interim was crap. New one is Meh.

 

 

It's great when Dev's set the bar high...

 

Firebird and Hammer have some nice alterations.  Even Twins can get back to it's OP-ness by buying the "no-splash" alteration.

And from what I understand the Rail Alt gives them what they want - the turret before the re-balance.

 

When is Isida going to get an alteration that players might actually want to buy?

[Viking4s 10,791]

When is Isida going to get an alteration that players might actually want to buy?

I thought that maybe the M3 Alteration would provide the lost Self Healing, unfortunately Hazel said today during the Live stream that M3 alteration are some how on hold, and might not happen at all. I need to listen again to make sure I understood well as I my attention was low at the time he said it.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Viking4s

[Tomas_cz 63]

1.) "Hazel? Nevermind." wow, just wow.

I'm on TO for playing, not to know who is who. How shocking. :) And honestly I'm more interested in facts than in referring to names (as if when "Hazel" says that something is OP, it is supposed to be more true than if someone else says so).

 

"Original was OP, Interim was crap. New one is Meh."

- Interim was still better that the new one. Overall more kill energy, self-healing (though small), better cone.

That is why I would like to read some plausible reasoning (not what is on the first page) of newly introduced disadvantages, especially when the OP was already sorted with the interim version AFAIU.

 

"Simple read the forum."

- Sorry, I don't have time to randomly read thousands of posts in the hope of finding something specific. I thought you would be able to support the arugment about OP (which you yourself brought in) with e.g. a link to a specific thread.

 

"Just use it when situation is right, and don't use it when it's not appropriate."

- I'm not sure I understand correctly. I've been playing with Isida as the only M3+ of mine for years, and I had no issues with problematic situations. (Well, I usually avoided large open maps, knowing Isida's limits.) But the last update puts me on a borderline. Are you now saying "don't play Tanki"? Or what is the idea behind "don't use it"? Should I start "building" a new tank instead, and in a few years time, after hundreds k of crystals spent to get another M3+, experience the same disillusion as now with Isida?

 

"Oh btw, striker is a very bad example, never compare short range turret versus long range."

- Well, they both are tanks in the same game. If Isida needed nerfing from interim status, I wonder why Striker is considered fine when it causes more damage. I can live with that, I'm just trying to find some logic when Isida got nerfed second time in a row, while other tanks are not touched, even if they are more or equally dangerous than/as interim Isida.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Tomas_cz

[Viking4s 10,791]

 

Well maybe you should read more, that would avoid text wall.

As a suggestion, at least read this [special Review] The Patch Update #441 Analyzed, where you will find another analysis and point of view. Good reading.

You would also be able to share your experience and the topic will not be closed like this one in a couple of weeks.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Viking4s

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Well maybe you should read more, that would avoid text wall.

As a suggestion, at least read this [special Review] The Patch Update #441 Analyzed, where you will find another analysis and point of view. Good reading.

You would also be able to share your experience and the topic will not be closed like this one in a couple of weeks.

I didn't know who Hazel was eihter until last week. "You don't know who Hazel is" is such the high-school taunt.

 

As for that "other" analysis, what anlysis? It's just a re-statement of Tanki's Isida/Hsmmer/Shaft change announcements ... right down description of the way shotguns do not work.

[Viking4s 10,791]

I didn't know who Hazel was eihter until last week. "You don't know who Hazel is" is such the high-school taunt.

 

As for that "other" analysis, what anlysis? It's just a re-statement of Tanki's Isida/Hsmmer/Shaft change announcements ... right down description of the way shotguns do not work.

Chill out man.

[galziv01 69]

 

 

 

 

because attack is more important then armor and with vampirism he got some kind of defense when attacking.

[realbigred 101]

personally I haven't seen any increase in 1 shot kills using M1 shaft. if anything less so. also slowing down the swing speed and longer reload sucks.

 

[Thepilgrim 0]

I have 2 tanki accounts and having now played for a few days with these changes this is my opinion:

Shaft is now too powerful, I like the rico effect on hammer but I think the strength has been downgraded too much. and I like the idea that Isida cannot heal itself, but quite honestly I never realised it could!. 

[LittleWillie 3,199]

The more I play with Isida the more the nerf raises its ugly head.  Actually like a hydra this nerf has more than one head.

 

Less dangerous on attack. The energy burn IS more significant than the DPS add. Case closed, jury result in: Guilty of Nerf

 

No self-heal: Whatever your opinion if "vamparism" helps or hurts the game overall, there is no question its removal nerfed Isida. 

 

Narrow firing arc (to make aiming easier lied Tanki): Perhaps teh most enraging change of all. Done for no reason other than to try to FORCE me to buy the pitiful self-nerfing m1 Alteration. It screws up healing on ranps and other vertical applications. My favorite map is Massacre and just try to keep your beam on target playing in Massacre now. At this point assume I use about 1,700 profane words.  Case closed, jury result in: Guilty of Nerf

 

Meanwhile splash damage has been added willt-nilly to turret after turret. Isidas still get targeted first but now they cannot even use cover to hide. Energe form cover: get killed.  Try to hide under a bridge or behind a wall, get spash-killed. 

 

WTH Tanki?

Edited February 24, 2017 by Maf

[clovixx 4]

on my situation as you can see on my profile... i did create this tank to be at close combat supporting and attakin and that was why isida could be STRONG "vampiristic" thing, like an elite force behind front line as commando or something, and now this new update just destroyed this.... shure is stronger now with the healing others and the front combat but, on enemy back is no longer a good turret to attack.  this situation will destroy the "commando isidas" and the attackin team will be much more complicated... this willl be only good for clans practice... nothing more...

isidas was the "ex-libris" of this game... u just destroyed the essence of have the proud to use 1 isida.

 

FOR THE PROBLEM of SUPPLIES: is another problem and that is not the isidas problem or concern, is the entire game problem.

There  are PRO battles to who dont want play with drugs, and u can also create "certain" time to when, how and limit  drug used per each life or any kind of period, but eliminate the self-heal was tottally unfair...

if there are someone who dont like the power of 1 isida is them problem... but 1 thunder can do a lot damage when druged. a hammer, or even the fire and freeze are very dangerous... curious all good at close combat...

 

so please please please put the isidas like they were before... that is not good for the game! tottally unfair to who bet on this turret, or give the cristals back to choose another turret... thank you!

 

btw i play with this tank since 2010 more and less, i feel like a veteran here, and i really dint like this new update!

 

regards and keep on the great and good game!

 

[railguniz4noobz 2,394]

because attack is more important then armor and with vampirism he got some kind of defense when attacking.

But spending 500k on attack when a hull would cost only 100k?

[clovixx 4]

look i  play with my iisida at full time, i dont have other turret, i dont want it, im a commando isida, i heal myself on back enemys front line, is just of the the strategys this update had  drestroyed!

 

im weak now all the time i just can kill 1 to 2 players per spanws... before i could kill sometimes 3 to 5... and i m speakin about of no druging...

 

and dont compare any thing cause to get to them back front i must die a lot caus ethem snipers hurt a lot... so, some snipers dint liike to be kiked or get be surprised... or just dont like isidas comes by them back... that destroyd the game... isidas always were self healers, if some 1 dont like , well why dont buy a isida and try it? i know why cause ito be an good isida u must sacrifice a lot caus eu play for u and for the team, and there are many many players who never help or dont support attacks cause they only want to kill, and that put isidas on very hard situation, cause when dm mission , i never get the first place now, and before easier u find a isida winning... whats the problem with that? isidas heal others, so... need to rewarde somehow... TANKI.. find a way to compensate the bad update u did!

 

im very angry with this update , i no longer like to use this turret... i want my cristals back!

Edited February 24, 2017 by clovixx

[realbigred 101]

tonight shaft hit lots of tanks with ZERO effect - not even 1 damage. What have you done? is this a glitch or just another "improvement"?

[realbigred 101]

Also the recharge time now takes way too long. If you just want everyone to migrate to using railguns then just say so. Don't screw up all the other turrets to limit peoples choices.

[railguniz4noobz 2,394]

They did that in october... the ghost shaft bug still hasnt been fixed (oddly enough there is not ghosting on the test server)

 

But dont complain about the reload time, you can 1 shot a medium hull and it only takes 3 seconds.

[galziv01 69]

What about missions "destroy enemies" and "earn XXX in DM matches"?

With Isida it takes now much more time to achieve these goals since the overall damage is lower now with full magazine.

 

Do you plan to solve that?

[DESTRUKCO 51]

They did that in october... the ghost shaft bug still hasnt been fixed (oddly enough there is not ghosting on the test server)

 

But dont complain about the reload time, you can 1 shot a medium hull and it only takes 3 seconds.

It takes 4 seconds for shaft to reach full charge.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Twins Projectile Size -> that's a nerv too, isn't it?

 

polygon CP, I am on the normal ground level, while my teammate and an enemy are at the level of the CP point (I am higher then they are).

The enemy covers behind my teammate, but because I am higher, I can shot above my teammate and hit the enemies turret.

With the new projectile size, this does not work any more. I land less hits now, It was better with a smaller projectile size.

I also have troubles to hit small parts of an enemy that is close to teammates from me on the same elevation, because my bullets are so large, that they are stopped by my teammate's tank, even if they were aimed correctly. They are too large to fit through some times.

 

On the other hand, aiming on targets at medium ranges was never that hard anyways.. so the larger size gives no reasonable advantage on this distance.

 

So if this was ment to be a buff, then please undo it. If it was an intenional nerv, then we have to live with it -.-

[marcoagf 47]

Shaft was already the most insignificant weapon of the game

Practically defenseless against the other weapons

I could only play on a few maps

And only slaughter someone in the long distance if it had already been broken.

Now that nerf at long range, it's over!

R.I.P Shaft

(google translation)

[Mofuka 30]

 

 

im weak now all the time i just can kill 1 to 2 players per spanws... before i could kill sometimes 3 to 5... and i m speakin about of no druging...

If you kill 1-2 players per spawn is an excellent result, especially with hornet. Or maybe you want to clear the whole map, before you get killed? That's not realistic.

If you were getting more kills before, then your K/D should be higher than 1.14. That shows that you were normally getting 1 kill per spawn on average.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

If you kill 1-2 players per spawn is an excellent result, especially with hornet. Or maybe you want to clear the whole map, befTre you get killed? That's not realistic.

If you were getting more kills before, then your K/D should be higher than 1.14. That shows that you were normally getting 1 kill per spawn on average.

He's not talking about each and every spawning. He's talking about those instances where it is possible to get into combat range still in good health and with full ammo. He is not averaging in the times you get 1-sot by a shaft 2 seconds after the spawn or the times you are cut to ribbons before getting into range. 

 

The point here is, even when circumstances are in your favor the new Isida is weaker than the Isida of 1-2 weeks ago.

[Mofuka 30]

He said 1-2 kills per spawn, which means at every spawn. That is a damn good achievement, especially for hornet.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Mofuka