Patch Update #441 - Changes to Isida, Hammer and Shaft, and other changes

[Pink_Legacy 269]

Twins? More powerful? What? On paper, it looks like splash damage gives it more power. It doesn't. Before, you could just ram tanks and hammer away at their HP while knocking their aim off. Now, you can't. It forces you to keep your distance rather than put a brick on the keyboard and drive into a CP point wrecking havoc. Furthermore, it decreases mults to who "troll" their teammates with Twins, because they self-destruct. Remember that splash damage means self-damage.

Do you mean to say that twins now requires actual skill to be played? There is a difference between power and gameplay. Before twins' gameplay was easier, against most of the turrets, you could just ram against the tank and keep shooting. Now, twins is more powerful (same damage + splash damage) but you can't use that tactic because you'd self-destruct. It is ironic how it's changed things, though. Now it is the twins user who gets rammed.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Carlo, sorry but I don't think I like a single one of those ideas.

 

Especially the make the target tank glow idea. The beams have different colors. Why must that be dumbed down? 

What you posted sparked me thinking a bit more down those lines. My main problem with the Isida changes come down to sustainability and the change to the firing arc. I think ypu original idea is good. Change the attack consumption to give 7 seconds firing time. I dont like the arc change but ... Tanki should change the m1 alteration to something better. When they do that they can return the arc to 20 degrees or at least give it back some of the lost arc. The m2 alteration MIGHT be viable with a 7 second attack time.

 

 

Firebird is intended to be the most powerful short range turret in the game. You can't compare it to Isida. You can't even compare it to Freeze. It's the go-to turret for offense and dealing lots of damage fast.

 

I would agree with you except for the fact Tanki made the explicit point the Isdas woul dhave the highest dmamage output of the three: fire/freeze/Isida. 

 

Complaining about Shaft is ridiculous. Have you tried playing with Shaft now?

 

On the receiving end. Here's teh thing. It is transforming play on certain maps. There are more games where several shafts keep heads down so much play is much clower.  The problem is not that this happens. What might be a problem is seeing it happen much more often aftr a design change. Maybe it is a temporary novelty, maybe it is something the Devs hoped to see ... or maybe it is a sign a design change went too far.

 

So no I don't agree discussion of Shaft is ridiculous.

 

Twins? More powerful? What? On paper, it looks like splash damage gives it more power. 

 

The same motivation was behind my comments on Twins. IIRC the recent change did not change their impact force. So why do I notice it more now? Probably because I see many more Twins now. Seems like I see Rico more too. Short-term trend or long-term? My point is: Tanki please watch out for these things. 

 

Smoky was OP. Nerf is deserved. End of story. I smell bias because you've used Smoky for 200+ hours. ;)

 

You'll not ffind a post by me demanding the last nerf be removed. I just dont understand the reasoning behind the specific changes used. I mentioned it because it is the last example we have had of a "fine-tuning" type change. Smoky's sustaind DPS was reduced by a few percent .. but it's character remained.

 

Since then the changes have featured entire new concepts added or removed. Changes like that hare more than likely to need "fine-tunings" of their own.

 

Oh look, more complaints about supplies. What to say? I'd tell you to buy a pro pass but I think it would be more appropriate to say "deal with it."

 

My but aren't you the productive contributor?

 

I had to smile at the last one. Nevertheless I think it makes little sense to spend money on this game when there a lot of much better games out there . . . just sayin'.

 

Spend whatever you want it's you dough. I'm just trying to let Tanki know how to pry some rubles from my wallet.

 

Edit: Response to I_A_W's comments on Shafts.

 

The proble, is there are many maps where shafts do not have to sneak and hide. They keep their beams up all the time. There's a big implication to "let that beam touch you and you die" cpm[ared with "pop a DA and you can survive to reach that next bit of cover"

 

Simple example: Siege. Thrre are all sorts of places where a Shaft can cover the plateau where the spawn point exists for one team. As soon as you solidify you die. The shaft might not see you but he's sees somoene on your team to shoot. So one team is scrambling just to survive the spawn, while the other team caps flags or points.

 

A less dramatic example is Sepherov. It is common for a shaft laser to stretch across the map into the enemy spawn area. When the beam means "instant death" this can cut the enemy team in two. It supresses that team's ability to organize, If that beam means "arrive beat up but alive" then maybe there's an allied Isida to get you ready for the next attack.

 

Shafts should have this role but they cannot become too dominant in it. I'm just saying the change should be watched closely.

Edited March 6, 2017 by LittleWillie

[HaloScorpionV2 438]

Do you think the new update to Hammer which allows it to bounce pellets off surfaces was a necessary change? Do you think this change makes Ricochet obsolete? Do you think the developers should add this feature to other turrets to make them more balanced? If so, which? Share your opinions. :rolleyes:

[HaloScorpionV2 438]

Few things to note:

- Hammer has a much higher damage output than Ricochet in close-mid range, AND now has the bouncing feature, more significantly with the high-capacity drum alteration.

- Tanki X is implementing or has implemented (I don't play Tanki X) a feature which allows Firebird and Freeze to reflect it's projectile off walls.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Why was Hammer added the bouncing ability anyway? Totally unrealistic and it runs counter to it's purpose. I think if anything Firebird should have the ability. It would make sense and actually be interesting to see flames deflecting at a 90-degree angle, and it would fulfill it's purpose as a "Close-quarters urban fighter."

 

Ricochet is obviously not obsolete, it is quite a unique turret.

[TheRollingSlab 803]

Why was Hammer added the bouncing ability anyway? Totally unrealistic and it runs counter to it's purpose. I think if anything Firebird should have the ability. It would make sense and actually be interesting to see flames deflecting at a 90-degree angle, and it would fulfill it's purpose as a "Close-quarters urban fighter."

 

Ricochet is obviously not obsolete, it is quite a unique turret.

I think it actually makes Hammer more realistic (think about it, pellets from a shotgun firing against a sturdy wall usually bounce off it).

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

1) An undrugged Shaft can one-shot an undrugged medium hull. If you spawn in Rio or Serpuhov and die before you move to cover, that's OP. That is, if the medium hull remains out of cover for long enough for the Shaft to full-charge, or nobody on your team is good enough to hit the Shaft while he is charging out in the open.Think of it from the Shaft's perspective. They have to stay out of cover for as long as it takes to get a target. And then they get knocked off aim and whatnot. The real question is why you allowed a Shaft to access your spawn-zones in the first place. On a routing team every turret is OP.

A shaft can kill a tank (FROM ACROSS ENTIRE MAP) then it can control massive areas. Some maps only have a few avenues of approach. But a Shaft can only fire once, then it has to reload and such, and has to worry about other Shafts, Railguns, Thunders, Vulcans, etc. It is not good against multiple enemies and many maps have no good camping points.

 

2) For 100k, EVERY Firebird owner would do this. Alterations are supposed to have a trade-off. When there's no hesitation to buy, the Alt is OP.  Or the stock is UP. ;)

 

3) Why? 

They've squeezed the turret into being effective in such a small area.  Loses to Rail and Thunder at long range. Medium range it loses to Ricco, Hammer and even twins now. On small maps Smoky loses to any turret effective on small maps. On big maps Smoky has to close the distance (thus losing health).

They have nickel-and-dimed it to death with all the "minor" nerfs.

 

I sense Smoky bias. Honestly most players now think Smoky is balanced. :) It stands a good chance against every turret; Shafts hate Smokies because of the impact and my freeze loses to smoky at point-blank range if they've got 1 shot off before range, which is quite easy.

 

You glossed over the "before you move to cover" part. I was referring to spawning. Many times even when you start to move immediately, you can't get out of site of shaft. = dead. No recourse.

 

Firebird - stock may be UP - but that does not change my opinion of Alt. It kills way too fast. Both can be true. Stock=UP and Alt=OP.

 

Of course lots of people think smoky is balanced. The ones fighting smoky of course. There's a bias there too.

I've watched smoky as i ranked up. it's been slowly whittled down. Even smoky impact is lower - now lower than Thunder.

 

If you're freeze is losing to smoky at point-blank ya may wanna maneuver a bit more. You're not supposed to go head-on. ;)

[Pink_Legacy 269]

I don't think it was necessary. But I don't think it was a mistake either, it's alright.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

I think it actually makes Hammer more realistic (think about it, pellets from a shotgun firing against a sturdy wall usually bounce off it).

They are either embedded in it or bounce off at a non-lethal velocity, unless you fire at a extremely funny angle. But a shotgun doesn't just bounce around corners like a Ricochet.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Smoky is a good turret still. But it's sort of Jack-of-all-trades master of none so it is not overly popular. You have to know Smoky's advantage over the enemy combo. And you have to aim well while you are moving. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by LittleWillie

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

You glossed over the "before you move to cover" part. I was referring to spawning. Many times even when you start to move immediately, you can't get out of site of shaft. = dead. No recourse.

No I did not. I said that the fact that a Shaft is waving his laser around in your spawn and waiting for targets says something about your team. ;)

If you're freeze is losing to smoky at point-blank ya may wanna maneuver a bit more. You're not supposed to go head-on. ;)

Neither is Smoky, which is supposed to stay out of range. By that time, either I am too far to circle, or if I do, the Smoky will follow me around. Either way it's not as simple as you think; there are terrain obstacles, etc.

[JustWatchMe 11]

I think it actually makes Hammer more realistic (think about it, pellets from a shotgun firing against a sturdy wall usually bounce off it).

if tanki wanted realism, they would reduce the damage of the pellets that are reflected off the wall

[CooperO 7,956]

Do you think the new update to Hammer which allows it to bounce pellets off surfaces was a necessary change? Do you think this change makes Ricochet obsolete? Do you think the developers should add this feature to other turrets to make them more balanced? If so, which? Share your opinions. :rolleyes:

Topic merged.

[Xxemo_dinoxX 934]

Just when I was starting to get used to Isida on my alternate account :(

[wolverine848 13,097]

Just when I was starting to get used to Isida on my alternate account :(

What did they do now?

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

What did they do now?

Isida seems like the devs' chew toy.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Isida seems like the devs' chew toy.

was worried they nerfed it even more  - but - maybe OP is referring to the February changes...

[LittleWillie 3,199]

I think it actually makes Hammer more realistic (think about it, pellets from a shotgun firing against a sturdy wall usually bounce off it).

No, actually lead pellets will deform and the concrete wall will be cratered and pock-marked. Such deformation and cratering uses up the kinetic energy in the pellets. Pellets also lose speed to wind resistance faster than the same mass in one bullet. 

 

If Tanki wants stuff to bounce off walls let stuff bounce off walls. But it ain't realistic. :)

[Xxemo_dinoxX 934]

was worried they nerfed it even more  - but - maybe OP is referring to the February changes...

I think they could have kept the self-healing feature and did something else though.

[r_carlo1234 118]

What you posted sparked me thinking a bit more down those lines. My main problem with the Isida changes come down to sustainability and the change to the firing arc. I think ypu original idea is good. Change the attack consumption to give 7 seconds firing time. I dont like the arc change but ... Tanki should change the m1 alteration to something better. When they do that they can return the arc to 20 degrees or at least give it back some of the lost arc. The m2 alteration MIGHT be viable with a 7 second attack time.

If you add two seconds or even one second to attack it will become overpowered when compared to Fire and Freeze. But if you cut 2 seconds to the reload then there is not that problem and you are reloading faster so you can shoot again sooner.

 

I think the bigger problem is the overpowered weapons like Hammer, Shaft and Rico that make other weapons and tanks feel weak.

 

I think the idea is "use double armor or die".

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

I think the idea is "use double armor or die".

I personally do not think Shaft should be able to one-shot a medium hull. However, I think it is currently balanced.

 

It would be nice if they removed the ability to one-shot medium hulls (that's what the M2 alt is for) and it would please a lot of players who bought a medium hull for specifically that reason,

 

while increasing reload speed of both modes drastically, and nerfing arcade damage slightly.

[Mofuka 30]

Shafts win every DM. There's something really wrong with this game if a Shaft can win a DM at a full Polygon. Not even double armor can save you, if they are on drugs. It's getting boring, I stop playing it until they fix it, or save some more, get a Shaft M3 and start playing it lazy, getting insane amount of kills with no much effort.

I bought Shaft m1 on this noob account and my KD is always something like 20.0, 30.0 on CP CTF without drugs, or 5.0 at DM Polygon. It's even good on arcade mode, If I get a DD box I kill half a dozen on arcade mode until it expire. It wipes the floor with all other weapons.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Mofuka

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Shafts win every DM. There's something really wrong with this game if a Shaft can win a DM at a full Polygon. Not even double armor can save you, if they are on drugs. It's getting boring, I stop playing it until they fix it, or save some more, get a Shaft M3 and start playing it lazy, getting insane amount of kills with no much effort.

I bought Shaft m1 on this noob account and my KD is always something like 20.0, 30.0 on CP CTF without drugs, or 5.0 at DM Polygon. It's even good on arcade mode, If I get a DD box I kill half a dozen on arcade mode until it expire. It wipes the floor with all other weapons.

For the last time, low-rankers have no right to complain about Shaft being OP. 

 

It's only because the hulls are so slow and nobody knows how to counter Shaft tactically and strategically at that level. Everyone knows Shaft M0 is a troll gun.

Edited March 9, 2017 by r_I_already_won0

[r_carlo1234 118]

Shaft is really annoying.

 

I'm only playing to complete 1 mission for each of my 3 accounts until I complete a week round, then I'll play only one account, and as little as possible.

 

I don't have the fastest internet so my screen size for Tanki is rather small, not very good to look out for Shafters.

 

And when you're in the losing team trying to catch up you take more risks and... boom, you're one shot again and again.

 

Where is the fun Tanki?

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Where is the fun Tanki?

..usually in the other team ;)

 

(just beeing sarcastic and ironic :p)