Patch Update #441 - Changes to Isida, Hammer and Shaft, and other changes

[LittleWillie 3,199]

He said 1-2 kills per spawn, which means at every spawn. That is a damn good achievement, especially for hornet.

[rolling eyes] Use some thought instead of playing Semantic Sherlock.

Edited February 27, 2017 by LittleWillie

[LittleWillie 3,199]

This past week has really been demoralizing. These changes in this patch are ludicrous. Combined with other patches Tanki Company seems to make decisions by letting a monkey pull slips of paper out of a hat.  Or some other metaphor to indicate a company out of its competence.

 

Ad in the lag which never seems to go away now -ever- and playing has gone from happy relaxation to causing anger and high blood pressure. Why am I so hostile towards the clan system? Well one reason is at $36 it is a clear rip-off of the customer. But mostly because clans have added NOTHING to the game for me but they HAVE added so much lag sometime players cannot even log in.

 

Isida is worse every time I play it. Just rage-quit not only the map scenario but the game entirely. Tired of dumping my entire energy bar into a Dictator and see it still standing with me out of options. This happens every day now. Tired of having the slightest lag, the slightest terrain effect, the slightest impact force throw off my beam now. Mostly I am tired of getting blown to dust by 1-shotting Shafts and Hammers or to 2.5 seconds exposure to Twins while I try to get the NERFED Isida into position to do something be it heal or hurt. 

 

Remind me again of the complaints about the 10% self-heal Isida version being OP? All I heard was "Isida is the weakest turret in the game". Thanks for the NERF, Tanki. My complements to the monkey.

 

And Firebird? Words fail. Played a DM finished in 2nd. The 1st place finisher was a Fire with 50 kills. Now with the alteration he just did what the OP FIres of the past did: Heat you for one second. run off to victim 2, and let the afterburn kill you.

 

Meanwhile other turrets are given alterations no player with two brain cells to rub together would ever buy.

 

Speaking of which, has anyone seen their first Rico with the splash alteration? I haven't. Give the moneky another banana and tell him to pick again.

 

The hammer "nerfing" was a joke.  Tanki acknowledged there was an issue. We have a turret that before the changes was POing players because it could drive around 1-shotting people left and right. Tanki gave it faster fire and did not reduce it's OP damage.

 

Shafts were a PITA on some maps before. Now they are this game try to find another map PITA. There are a b***load of maps the shaft can dominate ... this ability to 1 shot medium hulls w/o drugs is turning out to be a disaster ... unless you play shaft of course.

 

Twins ... highest sustained DPS in the game.  The love of crummy players who own bricks.  Tanki makes it more powerful gives it more capability.

 

But let's nerf Smokey.  After all Smoky has to hit the same target 4-5 times to kill it. Let's reduce its rate of fire while we transforms Twins and Rico into mid-range weapons that kill twice as fast.

 

But most of all I am tired of the DA/DD supplies. You better pop one or both on each and every spawn or just forget playing the d**n game.

 

Did I say most of all? Well after the lag, yeah then the drugs. Redesign them into something that does not make this game trivial beyond forbearance.

 

Not that I expect a damn thing to happen. I do regret feeling in the Christmas spirit and supporting the company with some gold box buys and alteration rentals. Had I know what was coming I'd have saved my money. I will save my money going forward ...

Edited February 27, 2017 by LittleWillie

[CooperO 7,956]

Ad in the lag which never seems to go away now -ever- and playing has gone from happy relaxation to causing anger and high blood pressure. Why am I so hostile towards the clan system? Well one reason is at $36 it is a clear rip-off of the customer. But mostly because clans have added NOTHING to the game for me but they HAVE added so much lag sometime players cannot even log in.

 

Well, on the clan system there might actually be some positive changes. Hazel and Cedric discussed it during the livestream. Here they talk about the price for the clan system and their plans for the future. You might find it interesting.

 

As for your feedback on the turrets, what changes would you like to see there? What do you think will make the turrets more fun to play with, without making one or the other overpowered?

[Kurt_KurtDGreat 2,259]

"Meanwhile other turrets are given alterations no player with two brain cells to rub together would ever buy."

 

2 sentences later you're complaining hammer alterations make it more OP. Interesting :)

[Pink_Legacy 269]

"Meanwhile other turrets are given alterations no player with two brain cells to rub together would ever buy."

 

2 sentences later you're complaining hammer alterations make it more OP. Interesting :)

She (sorry if I got your gender wrong) never said "all other turrets" or "every other turret." Moreover, she is not talking about hammer's alteration, but about the changes that this update brought to hammer, which didn't contribute to make it any less overpowered.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Pink_Legacy

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

What about missions "destroy enemies" and "earn XXX in DM matches"?
With Isida it takes now much more time to achieve these goals since the overall damage is lower now with full magazine.

 

Do you plan to solve that?

You should be able to get a 1:1 K/D ratio in DM on small maps. It kills quicker than before so less subject to kill-steals.

 

Unfortunately I don't find it performing as well in team games. You really have to choose between healing or attacking. You won't have energy pool to switch between the two options.

 

 

 

This past week has really been demoralizing. These changes in this patch are ludicrous. Combined with other patches Tanki Company seems to make decisions by letting a monkey pull slips of paper out of a hat. Or some other metaphor to indicate a company out of its competence.

 

Ad in the lag which never seems to go away now -ever- and playing has gone from happy relaxation to causing anger and high blood pressure. Why am I so hostile towards the clan system? Well one reason is at $36 it is a clear rip-off of the customer. But mostly because clans have added NOTHING to the game for me but they HAVE added so much lag sometime players cannot even log in.

 

Isida is worse every time I play it. Just rage-quit not only the map scenario but the game entirely. Tired of dumping my entire energy bar into a Dictator and see it still standing with me out of options. This happens every day now. Tired of having the slightest lag, the slightest terrain effect, the slightest impact force throw off my beam now. Mostly I am tired of getting blown to dust by 1-shotting Shafts and Hammers or to 2.5 seconds exposure to Twins while I try to get the NERFED Isida into position to do something be it heal or hurt.

 

Remind me again of the complaints about the 10% self-heal Isida version being OP? All I heard was "Isida is the weakest turret in the game". Thanks for the NERF, Tanki. My complements to the monkey.

 

And Firebird? Words fail. Played a DM finished in 2nd. The 1st place finisher was a Fire with 50 kills. Now with the alteration he just did what the OP FIres of the past did: Heat you for one second. run off to victim 2, and let the afterburn kill you.

 

Meanwhile other turrets are given alterations no player with two brain cells to rub together would ever buy.

 

Speaking of which, has anyone seen their first Rico with the splash alteration? I haven't. Give the moneky another banana and tell him to pick again.

 

The hammer alterations are a joke. Here we have a turret that before the changes was POing players because it could drive around 1-shotting people left and right. Tanki gave it faster fire and did not reduce it's OP damage.

 

Shafts were a PITA on some maps before. Now they are this game try to find another map PITA. There are a b***load of maps the shaft can dominate ... this ability to 1 shot medium hulls w/o drugs is turning out to be a disaster ... unless you play shaft of course.

 

Twins ... highest sustained DPS in the game. The love of crummy players who own bricks. Tanki makes it more powerful gives it more capability.

 

But let's nerf Smokey. After all Smoky has to hit the same target 4-5 times to kill it. Let's reduce its rate of fire while we transforms Twins and Rico into mid-range weapons that kill twice as fast.

 

But most of all I am tired of the DA/DD supplies. You better pop one or both on each and every spawn or just forget playing the d**n game.

 

Did I say most of all? Well after the lag, yeah then the drugs. Redesign them into something that does not make this game trivial beyond forbearance.

 

Not that I expect a damn thing to happen. I do regret feeling in the Christmas spirit and supporting the company with some gold box buys and alteration rentals. Had I know what was coming I'd have saved my money. I will save my money going forward ...

My two M3 turrets are Smoky and Isida. :( It's just bad timing for me the nerfing that occurred after I bought the M3 versions...

[wolverine848 13,097]

"Meanwhile other turrets are given alterations no player with two brain cells to rub together would ever buy."

 

2 sentences later you're complaining hammer alterations make it more OP. Interesting :)

Hammer and Firebird alterations vastly improve the killing ability and I would be shocked if 75% of those using them don't by the alterations.

 

Twins new alteration brings it back to OP-ness. The Splash "nerf" was only temporary.  Same with Rail - owners (for costs of crystals) can get the turret they had before the "re-balance".

 

Have you seen what the alterations are for Isida?  :P :D :lol:      :huh: :o :wacko: :blink: :ph34r:

[Bydo 20,120]

I know Ricochet was not on this update but it was on another one.. and I was doing good before then once you did the test run on drugs .. this started to give me issues .. starting from kills not adding to my counter to doing less damage to players when i have m3 fully upgraded and also a module protection package that seems not to be working as it use to.. please change or fix's these issues ..i'm loosing interest in playing and close to 4 years .. this game has now died on me...RIP ricochet

 

bydolord

Edited February 27, 2017 by Bydo

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Well, on the clan system there might actually be some positive changes. Hazel and Cedric discussed it during the livestream. Here they talk about the price for the clan system and their plans for the future. You might find it interesting.

 

As for your feedback on the turrets, what changes would you like to see there? What do you think will make the turrets more fun to play with, without making one or the other overpowered?

Thank you for the reference to the clan plans. However it should be obvious I see miles between how Tanki describes their intent and how Tanki codes it into the program.

 

To date the system adds nothing but lag. I would think a gaming company would grow concerned when players have trouble merely logging on due to the added overload of a system used by a severe minority. But if Tanki is concerned in the slightest there is no evidence of it.

 

What would I change? Well off the top of my head I would remove each and every change made since the last small tweak: the Smoky nerf that reduced critical hit power by a flat 10 points and which reduced Smoky's rate-of-fire. I do not understand the need for those changes, but at least they were the sort of small tweaks we were led to expect from time to time. 

 

Up to this point the game seemed as well-balanced as I have ever seen it. (Which is not long compared to many veterans fer sure.) Yes, there was some occasional talk along the lines of, "Hammer might be a bit OP". There was a pretty firm opinion the Firebird alterations were way too OP. Until the Christmas sale there were not too too many of those alteration in play. (At least at my Staff Officer rank level.) There was the common opinion that Isida was "the weakest turret". (Personally I disagreed with that.) But overall there wasn't a lot of such talk. Overall the game played well then.

 

Then suddenly the changes lurched into untested revolutionary change territory. And because why? I have my guesses but let's just say the reasons remain a mystery. So what would I do off the top of my head?

 

1) Eliminate all changes since the Smoky change mentioned above. Keep that change if Tanki must.

 

2) If Item 1 above does not include the date the clans went in, then #2 is Eliminate the Clan System. Give every Clan Owner their purchase price back inb the form of Shop credit... give them 150% the cost in credit if needed to smooth their hurt feelings perhaps. Tanki gets to keep the money, everyone else gets to bid adieu to the lag burden.,

 

3) Go back to the drawing board. Alterations need work a lot of work but nothing would help more than a replacing DD/DA Supplies with something more subtle than the brute force method of doubling or halving damage.

 

Thank you for reading and asking! 

 

 

"Meanwhile other turrets are given alterations no player with two brain cells to rub together would ever buy."

 

2 sentences later you're complaining hammer alterations make it more OP. Interesting :)

Well, as Pink_Legacy pointed out I was referring to those turrets with pathetic alterations such as Isida m1/m1 or Vulcan m1 to give examples.

 

But I have to thank you regardless. The comments on Hammer you mentioned were about the recent attempt by  Tanbki to nerf it, not the alterations per se. I edited that part of the text based on your comment here.

 

Thank you.

 

She (sorry if I got your gender wrong) never said "all other turrets" or "every other turret." Moreover, she is not talking about hammer's alteration, but about the changes that this update brought to hammer, which didn't contribute to make it any less overpowered.

Oh it is such a delight to see that rarest of all things, close critical reading.  :wub:

 

I am a male but I am not chauvinistic about a little pronoun equality. 

 

And you even used "gender" instead of the far more commonly used "sex". I just always felt we had this clear noun to use so why rely on a word that usually puts listeners in mind of the verb?  ;)

 

Well met.

Edited February 27, 2017 by LittleWillie

[Mofuka 30]

Hammer and Firebird alterations vastly improve the killing ability and I would be shocked if 75% of those using them don't by the alterations.

 

Twins new alteration brings it back to OP-ness. The Splash "nerf" was only temporary.  Same with Rail - owners (for costs of crystals) can get the turret they had before the "re-balance".

 

Have you seen what the alterations are for Isida?  :P :D :lol:      :huh: :o :wacko: :blink: :ph34r:

I have Hammer, but the alts for it are not good at all. The one make you almost unable to turn your turret and the other one that gives you 2 extra shots, actually increases the reload speed between shots with 10%, making you slower than a Hammer without alt. Not to mention the super long clip reload. No thanks.

Instead of that I went for the Twins alt that increases range. It's surprisingly good, you can shoot anyone no matter of distance and does good damage at long distance. It changes it's usage, making it long range weapon. With this alt and the splash damage Twins is already a whole new weapon. I was never a fan of it, but now I've been playing mostly with it, since I bought the alt.

The other Twins alt that switches off splash damage is pointless, people made it more fun to play, there's no point to bring it back to the old boring twins, unless you want to use it only at small maps, it's not good for that anymore, but then there are other short range weapons.

[wolverine848 13,097]

I have Hammer, but the alts for it are not good at all. The one make you almost unable to turn your turret and the other one that gives you 2 extra shots, actually increases the reload speed between shots with 10%, making you slower than a Hammer without alt. Not to mention the super long clip reload. No thanks.

Thought they increased re-load time for the cartridge - not between shots...

[LittleWillie 3,199]

I listened to the YouTube video's talk about the upcoming clan changes. Thanks for the reference Cooper but those comments make me even more hostile to the clan system.

]

Tanki's answer to clans being too small at 12 members is to say this: In the future new clans will start off even smaller.

 

The head shakes, the eyes roll, the mind boggles.

 

Yes, Tanki did agree the $36 price was too high.  Yes, they said in future that price would be lowered.  But lowering the price doe not improve the value if the clan size also shrinks!

 

And with that the talk on clans ended.

 

SO

 

Pipe Dream #2 as mentioned above remains in full force: Just junk this system. Delete it. Kill it. Subtracting a negative is a positive change.

 

PS: I know what I am suggesting will not happen. But I am being honest. These recent spate of changes have been haphazard at best. On the whole the effect has been detrimental.

Edited February 27, 2017 by LittleWillie

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Thought they increased re-load time for the cartridge - not between shots...

I concur. My understanding was time between shots went down a fraction of a second but the full clip re-fresh time was lengthened.

[Mofuka 30]

Thought they increased re-load time for the cartridge - not between shots...

It says:

 

Clip reload time +35%

Reload time +10%

 

 

The "reload time +10%" should mean the reload between shots. They added that recently, after the re-balance update.

This make that alt suck.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Mofuka

[wolverine848 13,097]

It says:

 

Clip reload time +35%

Reload time +10%

 

 

The "reload time +10%" should mean the reload between shots. They added that recently, after the re-balance update.

This make that alt suck.

OK - alteration adds time.

 

But...

 

The recent changes to stock decreased time - so that could be a net zero effect on individual shot re-load.

With 2 extra (total of 5) shots it seems powerful to me.

[clovixx 4]

TANKI team!!1 thank you very much for u just destroyed my tank! my fire power attack no longer exist!!! To make a change like this to a turret u could be at least did ask to onwers of turrets what they thinkin about it and give the possibilty to change weapons if possible! on battles with few people or in dm, my tank worth nothing! a m3 isida almost m4... thank you very much for ur excelent idea of showing what dictator means! U do what u what cause the game is urs... bye so long and put the game in the middle of the sun never shines!

[clovixx 4]

i was anti thunder tank, to get close of them and kik them of, and now i cant get near, and if i do, i cant repair myself,if i stay behind a mate, thunders ill shot me, i have no possible to repair... if i kill more than 1 per spanw is cause i m good and playing this game since 2009. so shut up nub about if my average is better than urs...

besice that i had construct this tank to fight back isidas, freeze and thunder and now kaput! i cant... i dont need to say nothing more... the game now belongs to snipers and thunders! and clans!

Edited February 27, 2017 by clovixx

[Tomas_cz 63]

As for your feedback on the turrets, what changes would you like to see there? What do you think will make the turrets more fun to play with, without making one or the other overpowered?

1) Restore the cone radius for Isida as it was before the last year update, or at least as it was before update 441.

(This is no improvement and does not lead to easier aiming at all. After a week of gameplay, this is IMO the worst of the newly introduced negative changes. Now it is much less possible to keep a "locked" beam when healing or attacking, especially when you and the other tank move side by side in one direction. With earlier bigger "tolerance", this was no probem. The "lock" on the horizontal axis is also not very stable. One shot from the enemy is often enough to interrupt the beam. And the same problem is with the vertical axis, especially when using a "high" tank vs. a "low" tank [Dictator vs Hornet etc.] or vice versa, or when using the beam at the beginning of a slope. None of these were an issue before 441.)

 

2) Make the 5 sec damage power equal to earlier 9 sec damage power (i.e. increase to 5580 from 4200).

 

3) Change the "cone alternation" for Isida, solved by point 1) above, to 20% self-healing advantage, "compensated" with 20% less power (5/10 sec -> 4/8 sec) or 20% longer charge time.

 

4) Make the *healing* beam from Isida locked until the spacebar is released, or until the tank leaves the cone.

(This means that if I heal tank A, and team tank B gets between me and tank A, I keep healing tank A. If I decide to heal tank B, I will press the spacebar again.)

 

To explain, Isida is not OP with these suggested changes compared to other turrets, because:

- It can hit/kill only one tank at once (disadvantage against all other turrets except Smoky, Rico, Vulcan and Shaft).

- There is no "side" damage caused by the beam (disadvantage against Thunder, Striker, Hammer).

- There is no "after shot" damage effect (disadvantage against the two other close combat turrets - Freeze and Firebird).

- With all other factors equal (theoretically), it is often the primary target (given the healing ability).

 

Will you consider these suggestions?

Edited February 27, 2017 by Tomas_cz

[Tani_S 736]

OK - alteration adds time.

 

But...

 

The recent changes to stock decreased time - so that could be a net zero effect on individual shot re-load.

With 2 extra (total of 5) shots it seems powerful to me.

The changes to the reload time between the shots and the clip reload made the stock Hammer to be less weaker compared to the M2 alt. It makes it more useful in more situations, but I think I will still prefer the M2 alt.

 

The reload between the shots takes longer for the M2 alt. after the update than before. You can check the stats here:

 

 

 

 

DPS omits the reload time, so just damage per mag. / charge time.

Charge (s) shows the time it takes to unload the whole magazine.

Cycle (s) is the sum of charge and reload time.

Cycle DPS is the damage it can deal per second within the cycle time.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2017 by Tani_S

[Mofuka 30]

OK - alteration adds time.

 

But...

 

The recent changes to stock decreased time - so that could be a net zero effect on individual shot re-load.

With 2 extra (total of 5) shots it seems powerful to me.

Time is everything. Sometimes reload between shots feels like eternity with Hammer, if you have freeze or firebird in front of you, or other. It often happens to get killed millisecond before I manage to shoot. I'd do everything to decrease the reload time, increasing it is unacceptable.

I'd buy alteration that decreases the reload time per shot and clip reload, although with reduced damage. That would make hammer more competitive at close range. Now in many situations you feel like a sitting duck, awaiting for execution.

[realbigred 101]

Put them back to how they were when people PAID MONEY to have them. On that thought, when you reduce a turrets capability do you refund cash to those people who have bought upgrades and have had their purchases devalued ?

 

example - here is your Ferrari thank you for the cash now we fit a Fiat engine as an 'improvement' .... why would you want money back ?

[CooperO 7,956]

 

 

Thank you for the reference to the clan plans. However it should be obvious I see miles between how Tanki describes their intent and how Tanki codes it into the program.

 

To date the system adds nothing but lag. I would think a gaming company would grow concerned when players have trouble merely logging on due to the added overload of a system used by a severe minority. But if Tanki is concerned in the slightest there is no evidence of it.

 

What would I change? Well off the top of my head I would remove each and every change made since the last small tweak: the Smoky nerf that reduced critical hit power by a flat 10 points and which reduced Smoky's rate-of-fire. I do not understand the need for those changes, but at least they were the sort of small tweaks we were led to expect from time to time. 

 

Up to this point the game seemed as well-balanced as I have ever seen it. (Which is not long compared to many veterans fer sure.) Yes, there was some occasional talk along the lines of, "Hammer might be a bit OP". There was a pretty firm opinion the Firebird alterations were way too OP. Until the Christmas sale there were not too too many of those alteration in play. (At least at my Staff Officer rank level.) There was the common opinion that Isida was "the weakest turret". (Personally I disagreed with that.) But overall there wasn't a lot of such talk. Overall the game played well then.

 

Then suddenly the changes lurched into untested revolutionary change territory. And because why? I have my guesses but let's just say the reasons remain a mystery. So what would I do off the top of my head?

 

1) Eliminate all changes since the Smoky change mentioned above. Keep that change if Tanki must.

 

2) If Item 1 above does not include the date the clans went in, then #2 is Eliminate the Clan System. Give every Clan Owner their purchase price back inb the form of Shop credit... give them 150% the cost in credit if needed to smooth their hurt feelings perhaps. Tanki gets to keep the money, everyone else gets to bid adieu to the lag burden.,

 

3) Go back to the drawing board. Alterations need work a lot of work but nothing would help more than a replacing DD/DA Supplies with something more subtle than the brute force method of doubling or halving damage.

 

Thank you for reading and asking! 

 

 

 

So, if I understand correctly, your biggest issue with the clan system is that it causes more lags. If the lags that came with the clan system were to be eliminated, would your problem be solved? Or would you still like to see changes to the price/what it has to offer, so you might even consider purchasing a clan license?

In the livestream I linked you to, Hazel did mention something about focussing more on fixing minor issues more in the near future, so hopefully (and rather sooner than later) the lags that started occurring after the clan update will be taken care of. 

 

As for isida, would you think a little faster reload could give it just the boost that's needed to compete?

Side note, I have no influence on what happens to equipment (or any other aspect of the game) whatsoever, but what I can do is make sure the feedback from other players is elaborate and clear. 

 

 

1) Restore the cone radius for Isida as it was before the last year update, or at least as it was before update 441.

(This is no improvement and does not lead to easier aiming at all. After a week of gameplay, this is IMO the worst of the newly introduced negative changes. Now it is much less possible to keep a "locked" beam when healing or attacking, especially when you and the other tank move side by side in one direction. With earlier bigger "tolerance", this was no probem. The "lock" on the horizontal axis is also not very stable. One shot from the enemy is often enough to interrupt the beam. And the same problem is with the vertical axis, especially when using a "high" tank vs. a "low" tank [Dictator vs Hornet etc.] or vice versa, or when using the beam at the beginning of a slope. None of these were an issue before 441.)

 

2) Make the 5 sec damage power equal to earlier 9 sec damage power (i.e. increase to 5580 from 4200).

 

3) Change the "cone alternation" for Isida, solved by point 1) above, to 20% self-healing advantage, "compensated" with 20% less power (5/10 sec -> 4/8 sec) or 20% longer charge time.

 

4) Make the *healing* beam from Isida locked until the spacebar is released, or until the tank leaves the cone.

(This means that if I heal tank A, and team tank B gets between me and tank A, I keep healing tank A. If I decide to heal tank B, I will press the spacebar again.)

 

To explain, Isida is not OP with these suggested changes compared to other turrets, because:

- It can hit/kill only one tank at once (disadvantage against all other turrets except Smoky, Rico, Vulcan and Shaft).

- There is no "side" damage caused by the beam (disadvantage against Thunder, Striker, Hammer).

- There is no "after shot" damage effect (disadvantage against the two other close combat turrets - Freeze and Firebird).

- With all other factors equal (theoretically), it is often the primary target (given the healing ability).

 

Will you consider these suggestions?

 

Thanks for your imput! Point 4 sounds interesting. It would definitely deal with those players that think they deserve to be healed first. When an enemy tank comes inbetween, the healing will still be interrupted or you'd like to see it locked on then too?

 

Put them back to how they were when people PAID MONEY to have them. On that thought, when you reduce a turrets capability do you refund cash to those people who have bought upgrades and have had their purchases devalued ?

 

example - here is your Ferrari thank you for the cash now we fit a Fiat engine as an 'improvement' .... why would you want money back ?

It's incredibly annoying to see something you worked hard for changed/nerfed, but the difference with a car for example is that you're actually the owner of the car, while you're not the owner of the equipment in your garage. You basically 'use' part of the game. It might be better to compare it to an appartment you rent than a car you buy.

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

The changes to the reload time between the shots and the clip reload made the stock Hammer to be less weaker compared to the M2 alt. It makes it more useful in more situations, but I think I will still prefer the M2 alt.

 

The reload between the shots takes longer for the M2 alt. after the update than before. You can check the stats here:

 

 

 

DPS omits the reload time, so just damage per mag. / charge time.
Charge (s) shows the time it takes to unload the whole magazine.
Cycle (s) is the sum of charge and reload time.
Cycle DPS is the damage it can deal per second within the cycle time.

Because Hammer does so much damage per shot I think that is the most important feature. Similar to shaft.

 

Unless I misread it (entirely possible) two important characteristics are missing in comparison.
1) Damage per shot
2) re-load time between shots.

 

This will give you better indication of how fast it will kill targets.
It can always wound another target if magazine not empty, or like many turrets that have energy pool, reload on the run.

 

Guess important question is - which do you use at M3+ more often? Stock or M2 Alt?
Do you feel the 5 shots are more advantageous? Or does Hammer kill often enough with three shots?
My guess is that the higher the ranks, the better protection = need more shots in magazine.

 

 

It might be better to compare it to an appartment you rent than a car you buy.

This does sound like a more reasonable comparison.

 

In most cases though, the owners of the apartment are limited on what they can change while you are renting.

[railguniz4noobz 2,394]

Because Hammer does so much damage per shot I think that is the most important feature. Similar to shaft.

 

Unless I misread it (entirely possible) two important characteristics are missing in comparison.

1) Damage per shot

2) re-load time between shots.

 

This will give you better indication of how fast it will kill targets.

It can always wound another target if magazine not empty, or like many turrets that have energy pool, reload on the run.

 

Guess important question is - which do you use at M3+ more often?  Stock or M2 Alt? 

Do you feel the 5 shots are more advantageous? Or does Hammer kill often enough with three shots?

My guess is that the higher the ranks, the better protection = need more shots in the magazine.

But this is where my favorite combo (hammer-hornet) comes in. 3 shots is enough to destroy most tanks but when its not enough you can simply run and hide.

[Tani_S 736]

Because Hammer does so much damage per shot I think that is the most important feature. Similar to shaft.

 

Unless I misread it (entirely possible) two important characteristics are missing in comparison.

1) Damage per shot

2) re-load time between shots.

What do you exactly mean, do you want to compare Hammer with other turrets or compare stock Hammer with its alteration?