Patch Update #441 - Changes to Isida, Hammer and Shaft, and other changes

[wolverine848 13,097]

What do you exactly mean, do you want to compare Hammer with other turrets or compare stock Hammer with its alteration?

Mostly with stock vs Alt at moment.  But you could include two extra columns in the chart - they would be blank for firebird/Freeze as they don't have "shots".

 

And how have you been using your M3 recently?  Can you kill often enough with three shots? Or is the 5 needed since at that rank many have M3 protection modules.  Experience can be quite different from m2 to M3 in regards to opponents...

[Tani_S 736]

 

 

Because Hammer does so much damage per shot I think that is the most important feature. Similar to shaft.

 

Unless I misread it (entirely possible) two important characteristics are missing in comparison.

1) Damage per shot

2) re-load time between shots.

 

This will give you better indication of how fast it will kill targets.

It can always wound another target if magazine not empty, or like many turrets that have energy pool, reload on the run.

 

Guess important question is - which do you use at M3+ more often?  Stock or M2 Alt? 

Do you feel the 5 shots are more advantageous? Or does Hammer kill often enough with three shots?

My guess is that the higher the ranks, the better protection = need more shots in magazine.

 

 

 

The damage per shot of the stock turret and the M2 alt. is exactly the same. The reload time between shots is/was like this:

Stock Hammer postupdate

 

Basically you can compare the reload time between shots by the stats of the charge time, which is the time it takes to unload the magazine = (number of shots in one clip minus one) multiplied with the reload time between shots).

The damage per shot is a rather fixed amount, because you can remember that a light hull needs 2 shots, a medium 3 shots and a heavy hull 4 shots. Because of this structure they don't change this parameter.

 

I think players with M3+ Hammer used to have the M2 alt. as long they had enough crys to buy it, because it was simply better, especially with drugs. With Hammer M4 & M2 alt. on DD you could make 10,710 damage within 7.6 sec. In general there is nobody left to be killed so, the longer mag reload wasn't really important.

 

The main advantage of Hammer is that it can have a high damage output in a small time frame (just like Ricochet, but it has / well used to have other mechanics and a bigger range), so it can kill light hulls almost instantly. A big disadvantage was the need to reload the whole mag to kill heavy hulls, but with the alt. you don't have to do it anymore.

 

Right, since Hammer became more popular, there rises also the number of Hammer modules, so the M2 alt. is better in this aspect. From what I have heard and experienced, IMO the rebalance nerfed the light hulls in comparison to other hull categories (because of the speed nerf). This lead to a stronger focus on Viking/Hunter and Titan, so that is another point, which let the M2 alt. perform better.

 

 

Mostly with stock vs Alt at moment.  But you could include two extra columns in the chart - they would be blank for firebird/Freeze as they don't have "shots".

 

And how have you been using your M3 recently?  Can you kill often enough with three shots? Or is the 5 needed since at that rank many have M3 protection modules.  Experience can be quite different from m2 to M3 in regards to opponents...

I wasn't playing much recently tho. And if I did, I tested more with Isida, because I was kind of frustrated of the recent damage nerf. I learned now that this and the different consumption rates for the Isida modes, together with the added Ricochet effect, the more varying pellet spread and the longer magazine reload for Hammer, are understood as elements of the new TO philosophy to raise the difficulty level of some turrets and make skill more important. By the way, IMO that is also why there are so many splash damage turrets now...

 

I added the columns you asked for, on the right side of the table, but I don't think it gives much more information. Note that all stats are M3 stats.

 

Anyway, when I played Hammer, I only played with both alts. equipped. From my feeling I'd say I can kill less with Hammer than before (surprise surprise  ^_^) , but the nerf for Hammer as a whole was less than I expected in the weeks before the update. 

I have an offensive style with Hammer and I unload the whole mag while I go into the enemy base and take the enemy flag. Sometimes I can use the additional shots to kill enemies while I am on my way capping. If there are too many in the enemy base I stay in a distance of 20-30 m and siege them while shooting all my shots and then I go in cover again. For this way of playing, a stock Hammer would be less useful, I think it is better when you do need to cover this much and are more actively wandering around (and maybe with closer contact to the enemy - so no slugger alt. equipped). 

 

I'm sorry for the long text  :huh: but I hope I could explain to you why I still prefer Hammer M2 alt., as it is the right mixture of higher DPS (compared to other turrets) within a decent time frame.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Tani_S

[WhosYourBuddy 56]

It's not a defect, it's a feature!

 

Remember to read the fine print, "Caveat emptor".

 

Please keep buying.

 

Oh Boy! Just in time, a new payment option is now available:

http://tankionline.com/en/2017/02/boacompra-brings-new-payment-options-to-tanki-online/

 

Just think, every time you buy something an angel gets it's wings.

 

Thanks for supporting the game!

 

Put them back to how they were when people PAID MONEY to have them. On that thought, when you reduce a turrets capability do you refund cash to those people who have bought upgrades and have had their purchases devalued ?

 

example - here is your Ferrari thank you for the cash now we fit a Fiat engine as an 'improvement' .... why would you want money back ?

Edited February 28, 2017 by WhosYourBuddy

[Tomas_cz 63]

Thanks for your imput! Point 4 sounds interesting. It would definitely deal with those players that think they deserve to be healed first. When an enemy tank comes inbetween, the healing will still be interrupted or you'd like to see it locked on then too?

Thinking about it, I think the lock should be there

1) either only for healing when a team tank tries to "steal" the healing,

2) or all the time - i.e. also for team tank + enemy tank combination (it might be more efficient to give priority to e.g. healing a flag carrier than to causing some damage to an enemy), or two enemy tanks (when a stronger tank with more health might try to protect the weaker one by moving in front of him).

 

I think any other combinations would be a bit too complex.

 

Of course as mentioned, if I wanted to lock the other tank, I would simply just press spacebar again.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Tomas_cz

[LittleWillie 3,199]

So, if I understand correctly, your biggest issue with the clan system is that it causes more lags. If the lags that came with the clan system were to be eliminated, would your problem be solved? Or would you still like to see changes to the price/what it has to offer, so you might even consider purchasing a clan license?

In the livestream I linked you to, Hazel did mention something about focussing more on fixing minor issues more in the near future, so hopefully (and rather sooner than later) the lags that started occurring after the clan update will be taken care of. 

 

As for isida, would you think a little faster reload could give it just the boost that's needed to compete?

Side note, I have no influence on what happens to equipment (or any other aspect of the game) whatsoever, but what I can do is make sure the feedback from other players is elaborate and clear. 

 

Yes. Eliminate all lag implications from the Clans system and - for the most part - I don't care of some pigeon are plucked of their $36 for a chat room. The lag affects me. Not buying an over-priced item does not affect me. So get rid of the lag and my active annoyance will cease.

 

However...

 

* When I see a company gouging on price that makes me unlikely to shop at that company.

* One ethic point remains: Tank advertised the Clan system as its answer to mults and cheaters. Then a bit later they described it as a "premium service". Both claims cannot be true. Protection against cheating is a basic service. Decide, Tanki.

 

As for my ever buying a Clan: No not with Clans as they are now. A 6 or 12 person chat room has zero value to me. Literally zero value to me. All I watched was the few minutes Clans were discusses and no specifics on the future were mentioned except the price would go down but so too would the number of membership slots. Thus making a starting Clan even less viable.

 

OPTIONAL BLAH BLAH BLAH (Want to show my basis for dislike.)

 

I used to play a game called Dark Ages of Camelot. It was a MMORPG like WoW but it's central design feature was PvP. There were three cultures each with its own PvE zone to level up. All three were connected by a PvP zone that the three sides battled to control.

 

Clans were free to start and could contain as many members as could be recruited. What's more they offered an even bigger organisazion, a Clan Alliance. Many clans could belong to one alliance. There was a clan chat channel and an alliance chat channel. Ratings were published by the company on clan and alliance activities. So Hundreds even a thousand players might be covered by an alliance umbrella.

 

This was needed because the ultimate accomplishment in DAOC was to storm an enemy's major castles in order to capture and carry off one of their two cultural artifacts.This required an invasion force of hundreds of players. And when detected the defense required alerting hundreds of defenders to drop their [roosters] and grab their socks. The battles were sometimes epic affairs lasting hours.

 

Even with unlimited members clans formed and failed all the time. Growth did not depend on earning the right to add a 7th member slot. Growth depended on simple competence. A good team thrived. Bad teams failed. If you got stuck on a bad team you could chop for a better one.

 

In Tanki I see tiny organizations with nothing to do really. I find Tanki's approach shortsighted. Tahey gained many $36 investments. When many of those investments fail will Tanki be left with happy customers?  They should think about it.

 

Because Hammer does so much damage per shot I think that is the most important feature. Similar to shaft.

 

Bingo. With the DD drug these guys are 1-shotting far too often so that game enjoyment is going down. Tehre is no fun to spawning only to be 1-shot. Tehre is no response possible to the 1-shot. With DD now even my 31MU titan gets one shot now.

 

I played an Osa game yesterday. The enemy team had three shafts on heavies sitting in the back with lasers out all the time. With DD up all the time. One was sitting behind the pair of buildings near teh flag pickup. He was lasering through the crack between buildings with DD up. Anyone that happened to cross that path he hits the spacebar and it is dead.  

 

Is that skill? Not in my book it ain't. Does it help the team when all this guy sees the entire game is a 5 degree arc on the map? I managed to drive right next to him. If not for his team mates I could have gown a crop of wheat and harvested it before he saw me.

 

If Shaftrers insist on this abilty to 1-shot even heavy hulls with DD up  ... well hell remove "Arcade mode" entirely. 

Edited February 28, 2017 by LittleWillie

[LittleWillie 3,199]

 

As for isida, would you think a little faster reload could give it just the boost that's needed to compete?

Side note, I have no influence on what happens to equipment (or any other aspect of the game) whatsoever, but what I can do is make sure the feedback from other players is elaborate and clear. 

 

OOPS! Missed the Isida part.

 

No. Tinkering with a failure leaves a failure. The Isida re-design is a failure. Cut the losses and roll it back to the way it was in the 10% version. There was no justification for this redesign. The previous version worked beautifully.

 

My fellow gamers here have told me that at the m4 level Isida had a hard time in DM due to a slow TTK. At my rank I thrived in DM ... I use the fast hornet, I can circle-strafe, and I know how to leverage Isida's full-power at max range capability. IMO Isida's TTK was just fine. That little 10% self-heal often left me with maybe 3% at the end of the battle ... but I was alive!

 

Was this due to DD abuse? I track my drug use and DD is that accounts 4th-most used Supply. It uses only RKs less often. All my drugs come from daily missions; any player can do what I do.

 

But let's say our friends are also right; at m4 that TTK Is too slow. Then all the needed be done was to add a little DPS to the m4 version. Done.

 

Instead the get a redesign the kills the turret. 

 

Why was this done? My opinion is that this was done to try to force players to buy the brain-dead useless alteration Isida has been given. Talk about f'ed up priorities.

 

How To Get Players To Buy Isida Alterations: Design useful alterations. Done.

Edited February 28, 2017 by LittleWillie

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

 

OOPS! Missed the Isida part.

 

No. Tinkering with a failure leaves a failure. The Isida re-design is a failure. Cut the losses and roll it back to the way it was in the 10% version. There was no justification for this redesign. The previous version worked beautifully.

 

My fellow gamers here have told me that at the m4 level Isida had a hard time in DM due to a slow TTK. At my rank I thrived in DM ... I use the fast hornet, I can circle-strafe, and I know how to leverage Isida's full-power at max range capability. IMO Isida's TTK was just fine. That little 10% self-heal often left me with maybe 3% at the end of the battle ... but I was alive!

 

Was this due to DD abuse? I track my drug use and DD is that accounts 4th-most used Supply. It uses only RKs less often. All my drugs come from daily missions; any player can do what I do.

 

 

 

But let's say our friends are also right; at m4 that TTK Is too slow. Then all the needed be done was to add a little DPS to the m4 version. Done.

 

Instead the get a redesign the kills the turret. 

 

Why was this done? My opinion is that this was done to try to force players to buy the brain-dead useless alteration Isida has been given. Talk about f'ed up priorities.

 

How To Get Players To Buy Isida Alterations: Design useful alterations. Done.

There's likely more and higher level protections at my rank. Tankers buy and upgrade the M3 modules. Makes killing medium much harder and heavy basically impossible.  You run out of juice and can't replenish it fast enough.

 

Lower rank tankers don't spend proportionally as many crystals on Modules. You might find a few that come in Kits, but not many shelling out for those separately.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

There's likely more and higher level protections at my rank. Tankers buy and upgrade the M3 modules. Makes killing medium much harder and heavy basically impossible.  You run out of juice and can't replenish it fast enough.

 

Lower rank tankers don't spend proportionally as many crystals on Modules. You might find a few that come in Kits, but not many shelling out for those separately.

This makes sense. I've read BlackWasp suggest the m4 50% Module level is just too damn high.

 

But doesn't the Module factor affect all turrets? Or do the other turrets that have an energy bar have enough "juice" to overcome the Module factor?

 

At any rate if the problem is at the m4 level I would suggest that a focus on that area is a better idea than a redesign across the spectrum.

[wolverine848 13,097]

This makes sense. I've read BlackWasp suggest the m4 50% Module level is just too damn high.

 

But doesn't the Module factor affect all turrets? Or do the other turrets that have an energy bar have enough "juice" to overcome the Module factor?

 

At any rate if the problem is at the m4 level I would suggest that a focus on that area is a better idea than a redesign across the spectrum.

Yeah.. getting to 50% is really expensive. But once you're in Legend ranks you can afford it. Or.. cough buyers cough.

 

Affect all turrets?  Maybe Freeze - don't play it so it not sure if it runs out.  Freeze has secondary effect which can mean you can't fight back.

 

Firebird with alt seems to kill everything. I use 36% protection at moment and still die.

 

Twins... Never. Runs. Out. Annoying

 

Ricco - with 14 shots does ~ 4130 avg dmg per clip. But Ricco clip replenishes fast? not sure...

 

Hammer... with 5 shot alt will be 4515 damage. 35% reduces to 2934. 40% reduces to 2709. 45% reduces to 2483. So at ~ 43% medium survives and Heavy hull at 35% survives. Without DD it seems hammer will need to hide a bit. Like Isida.

[Bydo 20,120]

like i posted else where

 

remove splash damage on ricochet .. cause now when your on your side instead of being  able to flip back to normal it now kills u when u shoot .. this is unfair when you go to use any other turret it do's not have it happen

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

This makes sense. I've read BlackWasp suggest the m4 50% Module level is just too damn high.

But doesn't the Module factor affect all turrets? Or do the other turrets that have an energy bar have enough "juice" to overcome the Module factor?

At any rate if the problem is at the m4 level I would suggest that a focus on that area is a better idea than a redesign across the spectrum.

Yes, it affects all turrets. And No, some are more effected then others

 

It effects especially shortrangers, as they have to get and stay close to deal damage; and the time-to-kill is cruicial. If it takes too long, you are killed yourself. Now firebird excells on it's powerfull alteration, because it can heat an enemy up and run; Freeze can slow the enemy down and stay out of his fireline, but Isida can do nothing. Nothing. Not even selfheal to overcome that issue.

 

 

 

I was in M4 battles with no supplies and no drops; most stuff M4 or close to it on mediums and heavies. It was almost impossible to work through such a defense supported by Isidas. The map defines the best turrets, the best turrets define the best modules on that map, and there you are: stuck with no progress. Feel free to change to a turret that you do not like so much (less fun.. less efficiency).

 

I don't complain that it's hard - it would be ok if you could overcome that by skill. But usually you can't (without drugs).

-> So it becomes boring lame to make kills.

 

Killing is a fun factor in the game; dying all the time is an anoyance. A balance between survival time and kill time is important. But 50% modules change the whole way maps work; you either rush in with a lot's of tanks and just take the flag (as they can not kill you in time) or you spend ages to chissel down the enemies defense, while Isidas can keep them refreshed (by their 50% modules you deal way less damage, so an Isida can easily heal them).

Sitting ducks, gaining no score, gaining less crystals. Such battles are no fun... but they become great and awesome as soon as the players use less modules (I saw that often in clan trainings that reduced the modules for exactly that reason)

Edited March 1, 2017 by BlackWasp777

[LittleWillie 3,199]

^^^ For BlackWasp above ^^^

 

Thanks you for that. For a long time I've been saying "Isidas are great" and players including yourself have been saying "Isidas cannot compete". Neither Isida could convince the other. But we did sort of agree that maybe life was different at m2 and m4.

 

Now I think I understand why. Thank you for that.

 

This explanation also strengthens what Wolverine has been saying about the energy pool nerf being much more significant than the DPS add. I've been saying that too, but now I have to think Wolverine see the problem in a starker light thatn I do. What I am saying is the recent Isida nerf is real and significant at m2. At m4 it must be much worse!

[Tomas_cz 63]

As for your feedback on the turrets, what changes would you like to see there?

I forgot to mention one more thing - not related directly to abilities or damage, but to how points are awarded.

 

When using the beam with Isida, then if me or the "beamed" tank gets killed, no points are added to my tank score (game + XP).

In other words, I can be one last "tick" from fully healing a team mate, but instead of getting 9 XP points at the moment of me or him killed, I get 0. (I suspect the same happens in situations when I would otherwise receive some points after a team mate kills a tank which I started attacking shortly before.)

 

I think this is not fair, given the mechanics of Isida beam (continous "unfinished" shot, not individual shots as with most other turrets).

Of course I can stop the healing or shooting for a sec, but that is not very practical.

 

Could this be considered?

Edited March 1, 2017 by Tomas_cz

[fleurschilling8 2]

After the last update i had it with ISIDA. The parameters are now so uninteresting that i think to quit tanki as i only have isida m3.

I played only isida for the lowest rank till now and became as i think a skilled isida fighter. I say fighter because isida was not only good in helping the team but could also atack and kill in one to one battles due to the UNIQUE FEATURE of selfhealing.

 

After the first big update it was already much harder to fight in one on one fights because of the changes in beamrange and stability, so isida players had to become even more skilled in handling their turrets and hulls.

( A lot of generalissimos cant even turn turrets and are just no skilled druggers)

 

After the last update isida became even more unstable and harder to control but what i dislike the most is that TANKI 

cnaged the character of the turret by take away the SELFHEALING FEATURE. 

 

Isida now has become the nice hospitalnurse that cannot fight and so will never will be no 1 in battles!!!!!!!!

 

I think tanki killed ISIDA !!!!!!

 

And to moderators that think they need to close this topic as Mafioso did with my last topic i say STOP CENSURING! 

THIS IS A FORUM AND ON A FORUM U NEED DISCUSSIONS SO TANKI CAN LEARN FROM IT!!!!!

Im not complaining but just give my thoughts!!!!

 

 

 

 

[yonatanthesuper 314]

 

sorry to hear, but there's nobody left to care,most already quited tanki.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Maf
overquoting

[Maf 32,300]

 

Topic merged

[r_carlo1234 118]

Isida needs a tweak.

 

I said before that Isida needs one extra second for damage, but now I think reducing the reload time by two seconds could be better.

 

Also upping the healing numbers but rising the healing consumption would be better for healing Isidas. However I don't play Isida for healing only, so I need your feedback on that.

 

This is my idea:

 

- same damage numbers as today

- 5 seconds damage (same as today)

 

- 10% increase in healing

- 8 seconds healing (that is 20% increase in healing energy consumption)

 

- 8 seconds of reload time.

 

I think when people complain about Isidas they only think of skilled Isida players, but they forget the countless less skilled Isidas, many of which can't even turn their turrets.

 

Other complaints could be because Isida is annoying when it hides and heals other tanks and one doesn't realize right away. But that could be solved by making the healed tank glow.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Carlo, sorry but I don't think I like a single one of those ideas.

 

Especially the make the target tank glow idea. The beams have different colors. Why must that be dumbed down? 

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

This past week has really been demoralizing. These changes in this patch are ludicrous. Combined with other patches Tanki Company seems to make decisions by letting a monkey pull slips of paper out of a hat.  Or some other metaphor to indicate a company out of its competence.

 

Ad in the lag which never seems to go away now -ever- and playing has gone from happy relaxation to causing anger and high blood pressure. Why am I so hostile towards the clan system? Well one reason is at $36 it is a clear rip-off of the customer. But mostly because clans have added NOTHING to the game for me but they HAVE added so much lag sometime players cannot even log in.

 

And Firebird? Words fail. Played a DM finished in 2nd. The 1st place finisher was a Fire with 50 kills. Now with the alteration he just did what the OP FIres of the past did: Heat you for one second. run off to victim 2, and let the afterburn kill you.

 

Meanwhile other turrets are given alterations no player with two brain cells to rub together would ever buy.

 

Speaking of which, has anyone seen their first Rico with the splash alteration? I haven't. Give the moneky another banana and tell him to pick again.

 

The hammer "nerfing" was a joke.  Tanki acknowledged there was an issue. We have a turret that before the changes was POing players because it could drive around 1-shotting people left and right. Tanki gave it faster fire and did not reduce it's OP damage.

 

Shafts were a PITA on some maps before. Now they are this game try to find another map PITA. There are a b***load of maps the shaft can dominate ... this ability to 1 shot medium hulls w/o drugs is turning out to be a disaster ... unless you play shaft of course.

 

Twins ... highest sustained DPS in the game.  The love of crummy players who own bricks.  Tanki makes it more powerful gives it more capability.

 

But let's nerf Smokey.  After all Smoky has to hit the same target 4-5 times to kill it. Let's reduce its rate of fire while we transforms Twins and Rico into mid-range weapons that kill twice as fast.

 

But most of all I am tired of the DA/DD supplies. You better pop one or both on each and every spawn or just forget playing the d**n game.

 

Did I say most of all? Well after the lag, yeah then the drugs. Redesign them into something that does not make this game trivial beyond forbearance.

 

Not that I expect a damn thing to happen. I do regret feeling in the Christmas spirit and supporting the company with some gold box buys and alteration rentals. Had I know what was coming I'd have saved my money. I will save my money going forward ...

On the subject of clans, Hazel said that the price will be decreased (maybe to $5-10) but the number of slots in a clan will decrease too. You will be able to increase the size of your clan by paying more. Those who payed the full price of $36 will get the maximum number of slots and other perks. Clans system is by no means finished. Regarding Tanki's incompetence, I strongly suggest you watch at least part of the stream that took place instead of the V-log last Friday. Link:

 

It's very informative and provides an answer to a lot of your complaints. Also you can read Mafioso's excellent summary of the Russian stream here: http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=351399

 

Firebird is intended to be the most powerful short range turret in the game. You can't compare it to Isida. You can't even compare it to Freeze. It's the go-to turret for offense and dealing lots of damage fast.

 

The damage is not OP. It's actually quite balanced, and when I do play with Hammer I actually wish it was more. Things only get interesting with supplies - in which case you are complaining about supplies and not the turret, which is a different story. The shorter shot reload is actually misleading. I checked the stats recently and was surprised, because it was reduced by a few hundredths of a second for each modification on average. I tried it out and it feels almost exactly the same.

 

Complaining about Shaft is ridiculous. Have you tried playing with Shaft now? It's horrible, absolutely horrible. Your gun elevation/depression is tiny, the time it takes for your shot to charge up is very long, feels longer than the reload, and your turret traverse is even slower than it was before! Just because you got one-shotted several times in a medium doesn't make Shaft automatically OP. Think of the player who plays with Shaft, and not the tanker who got one-shotted. The damage was increased, sure, but the turret is now frustrating and boring to play with. My attitude towards the new Shaft is more or less the same as your attitude towards the new Isida, a nerf disguised as a buff.

 

Twins? More powerful? What? On paper, it looks like splash damage gives it more power. It doesn't. Before, you could just ram tanks and hammer away at their HP while knocking their aim off. Now, you can't. It forces you to keep your distance rather than put a brick on the keyboard and drive into a CP point wrecking havoc. Furthermore, it decreases mults to who "troll" their teammates with Twins, because they self-destruct. Remember that splash damage means self-damage.

 

Smoky was OP. Nerf is deserved. End of story. I smell bias because you've used Smoky for 200+ hours. ;)

 

Oh look, more complaints about supplies. What to say? I'd tell you to buy a pro pass but I think it would be more appropriate to say "deal with it."

 

I had to smile at the last one. Nevertheless I think it makes little sense to spend money on this game when there a lot of much better games out there . . . just sayin'.

Edited March 5, 2017 by ThirdOnion

[r_carlo1234 118]

Carlo, sorry but I don't think I like a single one of those ideas.

 

Especially the make the target tank glow idea. The beams have different colors. Why must that be dumbed down? 

With the numbers I suggested Isida M3 would cause 16,291 of damage per minute as opposed to 14,160 of today.

 

That will put it close to Firebird's and Freezer's damage of 17,440. I don't think devs will like that because the range differences. But they should remember that Fire has afterburn, Freeze has freeze effect, and both can hit many tanks at once.

 

The thing we should agree on and talk about more is that the 10 seconds reload time is too long for a melee weapon.

 

The tanks that glow because of Isida idea will be in line with other melee weapons. Fire turns your tank red and Freeze white. Same, a tank being healed should turn green, one being damaged should turn orange, and healed and damaged at the same time yellow. This is not because I don't know if I'm being healed or damaged, this is because of Isidas that hide and heal a tank that's killing everyone in a way that you don't even see the beam. That makes Isida too powerful in some situations.

 

I play Isida and I want Isida to be more powerful, but the turret that can attack and heal has to give up something.

 

Thanks for the reply.

Edited March 5, 2017 by r_carlo1234

[GeeVuh 1,647]

The tanks that glow because of Isida idea will be in line with other melee weapons. Fire turns your tank red and Freeze white. Same, a tank being healed should turn green, one being damaged should turn orange, and healed and damaged at the same time yellow. This is not because I don't know if I'm being healed or damaged, this is because of Isidas that hide and heal a tank that's killing everyone in a way that you don't even see the beam. That makes Isida too powerful in some situations.

Part of playing Tanki is being aware of your surroundings. Plus, you should frequently use the PageUp/PageDown or Q/E keys (Preference) to check behind walls.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Bingo. With the DD drug these guys are 1-shotting far too often so that game enjoyment is going down. Tehre is no fun to spawning only to be 1-shot. Tehre is no response possible to the 1-shot. With DD now even my 31MU titan gets one shot now.

 

I played an Osa game yesterday. The enemy team had three shafts on heavies sitting in the back with lasers out all the time. With DD up all the time. One was sitting behind the pair of buildings near teh flag pickup. He was lasering through the crack between buildings with DD up. Anyone that happened to cross that path he hits the spacebar and it is dead.  

 

Is that skill? Not in my book it ain't. Does it help the team when all this guy sees the entire game is a 5 degree arc on the map? I managed to drive right next to him. If not for his team mates I could have gown a crop of wheat and harvested it before he saw me.

 

If Shaftrers insist on this abilty to 1-shot even heavy hulls with DD up  ... well hell remove "Arcade mode" entirely. 

The problem seems to be that you are facing drugged Shafts with undrugged tanks. Now if the Shaft is parking his laser in a corridor, all you have to do is avoid it, if he is as blind as you say.

 

I think it might be useful for you to play with Shaft for a while. It is nowhere near as OP as you think it is.  Every time you peek out the enemies scamper away. You have to be very skilled; identify a target BEFORE you come out, then fire. If he's disappeared, go back under cover. Don't stay out looking for another target; that's the mistake they all make. Then they get pummeled and whacked around, unable to get off a single shot before they die.

 

Even before a Shaft would full-charge a medium hull and then arcade would finish them off. And Darn it NEEDED that buff.

 

Maybe consider that the Shafts are using DD because the turret is too weak without drugs.  At least that is my experience.

 

 

The Firebird alt may be a tad bit OP but the stock Firebird suren't ain't nowhere close to balanced.  If people are paying 100k for something maybe they deserve to get something out of it. Maybe they're even FORCED to, the stock Firebird being so weak. Think of it this way: 100k can buy you a ton of drugs.

 

Honestly Smoky needed the nerff. I'm sorry. :P

 

I think the main problem is that people think a turret is OP, until they play with it for a while.  Smoky users didn't think the turret needed a nerf but everyone else did. A lot think Shaft didn't deserve the buff, but the Shaft players know better.

So I think we should all stop complaining about OP turrets until we have tried them out for a period of time. Maybe that guy who is getting all the kills with his "OP" turret is actually immensely skilled and using all of his effort and drugs to actually stand out.

 

The thing is, we set up images in our heads of the OP turret being super easy to get kills with, and then when we actually use it it's quite disappointing to realize it is no more effective than any other turret. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by r_I_already_won0

[wolverine848 13,097]

The problem seems to be that you are facing drugged Shafts with undrugged tanks. Now if the Shaft is parking his laser in a corridor, all you have to do is avoid it, if he is as blind as you say.

 

The Firebird alt may be a tad bit OP but the stock Firebird suren't ain't nowhere close to balanced.  If people are paying 100k for something maybe they deserve to get something out of it. Maybe they're even FORCED to, the stock Firebird being so weak. Think of it this way: 100k can buy you a ton of drugs.

 

Honestly Smoky needed the nerff. I'm sorry. :P

1) An undrugged Shaft can one-shot an undrugged medium hull. If you spawn in Rio or Serpuhov and die before you move to cover, that's OP.

A shaft can kill a tank (FROM ACROSS ENTIRE MAP) then it can control massive areas. Some maps only have a few avenues of approach.

 

2) For 100k, EVERY Firebird owner would do this. Alterations are supposed to have a trade-off. When there's no hesitation to buy, the Alt is OP.

 

3) Why? 

They've squeezed the turret into being effective in such a small area.  Loses to Rail and Thunder at long range. Medium range it loses to Ricco, Hammer and even twins now. On small maps Smoky loses to any turret effective on small maps. On big maps Smoky has to close the distance (thus losing health).

They have nickel-and-dimed it to death with all the "minor" nerfs.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

1) An undrugged Shaft can one-shot an undrugged medium hull. If you spawn in Rio or Serpuhov and die before you move to cover, that's OP. That is, if the medium hull remains out of cover for long enough for the Shaft to full-charge, or nobody on your team is good enough to hit the Shaft while he is charging out in the open.Think of it from the Shaft's perspective. They have to stay out of cover for as long as it takes to get a target. And then they get knocked off aim and whatnot. The real question is why you allowed a Shaft to access your spawn-zones in the first place. On a routing team every turret is OP.

A shaft can kill a tank (FROM ACROSS ENTIRE MAP) then it can control massive areas. Some maps only have a few avenues of approach. But a Shaft can only fire once, then it has to reload and such, and has to worry about other Shafts, Railguns, Thunders, Vulcans, etc. It is not good against multiple enemies and many maps have no good camping points.

 

2) For 100k, EVERY Firebird owner would do this. Alterations are supposed to have a trade-off. When there's no hesitation to buy, the Alt is OP.  Or the stock is UP. ;)

 

3) Why? 

They've squeezed the turret into being effective in such a small area.  Loses to Rail and Thunder at long range. Medium range it loses to Ricco, Hammer and even twins now. On small maps Smoky loses to any turret effective on small maps. On big maps Smoky has to close the distance (thus losing health).

They have nickel-and-dimed it to death with all the "minor" nerfs.

 

I sense Smoky bias. Honestly most players now think Smoky is balanced. :) It stands a good chance against every turret; Shafts hate Smokies because of the impact and my freeze loses to smoky at point-blank range if they've got 1 shot off before range, which is quite easy.

Edited March 6, 2017 by r_I_already_won0

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

P.S. I think the self-heal was an interesting feature. Again, the more diversity (within reason) the better. 

 

SO DEVS: A SELF-HEAL feature would be nice for an M3 alteration or another turret. But to self-heal, certain conditions must be met (for example, the attacker must be at less than 30% health.