Patch Update #441 - Changes to Isida, Hammer and Shaft, and other changes

[Maf 32,300]

After seeing the recent changes to Twins, Rico and Hammer, as well as new turrets, Striker and Artillery...

 

Devs be like:

[wolverine848 13,097]

Hammer was my favourite turret over the past few months and I had so much fun getting a K/D of 10-20 in every battle. :D

I am a bit sad about this change, but I gotta admit that it was the right decision - the turret was obviously way overpowered. Oh well, all good things eventually come to an end...  :unsure:

Wait a second...Hammer will fire those (up to) 5 shots even quicker? How is that a 'nerf'? Takes less time to kill a heavy hull...

 

"So, we'll be increasing the reload speed between shots, but reloading your clip will take longer."

[Maf 32,300]

We want to make a bigger distinction between Isida’s roles of "fighter" and "medic". For this reason, we have completely removed self-healing. 

 

There will also be changes in Isida’s Alterations.

Can you release details about changes to the alterations? Because right now there is an alteration that's specifically meant to increase Isida's self-healing ability, and after the update it literally becomes obsolete.

 

 

-_- You have just ruined the whole point of isida. 

Not really. Sure, originally self-healing was one of Isida's main features. But to be fair, it was always game-breaking. With this update devs are turning it into a typical MMO healer. Sure, you may say that's unoriginal, but the reason so many games use the same "healer" concept is because it's the most balanced option that all game devs end up coming up with. Isida still heals teammates, and now healing is even more effective with the increased "heal energy" so its primary function is still there.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

 

That was terrible two years when nobody could kill this beast. I remember how fun it was when nobody could kill you for a few minutes. Also I do remember how "fun" it was when you couldn't kill it no matter what you do.

In those 2 years noone complained about Isidas in supply-free battles. The problem was that Isida doubled it's selfhealing on DP.

(and maybe isida parties of 3..4 isidas on M4, quipped with high quadruble protections)

 

 

selfhealing is important.

Most players target the Isidas first - logically, because they can heal others. So to make an Isida "balanced" it's not only about damage or time to kill, but it's also about the issue, that an Isida has a big, red target-sign on it's back. Therefore the selfhealing was so valuable, because it allowed the #1 target of the enemy team to take a little care of itself.

 

This was a very needed feature alongside the healing.. and it was taken away because it was messed up on supplies.. so many players asked to remove the supply-effect on selfhealing and leave the selfhealing at about it's former levels; as this would have solved 90% of al issues with an Isida.

 

 

higest DPM..

does this comparism include the damage dealt by Firebirds afterbun on the alteration compact tanks? If yes, then Isida will be the #1 anoyance; especially on DP -.-

 

But ok.. let's see.

My Isida cathes dust anyways since it was rebalanced last autum, so I will give it a try.

 

 

ps: and it's a shame to not give this information 3 days earlier, before the sale

Edited February 15, 2017 by BlackWasp777

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

 

I've already invested a lot of time to get my equipment where it is. then it suffers a large set-back due to an "update". Now it may not be playable the way I wanted, but I can't get the time I've "invested" back. it's gone.

 

I've seen many people who complain about these changes. Some just don't seem to like changes at all, of any kind. But there are many people who are disappointed mainly because they can not use anymore some turrets the way they wanted because of these changes in gameplay but if you play the game you need to take this risk. Sure, I understand that it can be frustrating at times when you work so hard and you can't play the game as you want but I don't think there is something that can be done in order to prevent these changes from happening. 

 

I've invested 650 hours in this game and got 3 M4s. They have changed my Thunder, transfromed my Viking into that Hunter which everyone seems to hate, and they've drastically changed my Isida. I do not regret spending any of my crystals the way I did. Even if the way I used my equipment changed I still enjoy playing and that's what I find important.

 

 

The constant "updates" have been frustrating gamers lately. And this contributes to why more and more people have been leaving tanki. Soon there will be so few people online it won't be playable due to lack of battles.

 

No matter how drastic these changes were no turret was underpowered if used corectly, not even Isida after the nerf. In my opinion it is the performance in battle that gives us satisfaction so as long as we perform well we will enjoy the game. If gameplay changes, we will adapt and have fun or we won't adapt, suffer and leave.

 

Hats down for all these balance changes we are facing. In my opinion they are excellent as marketing strategies, somewhat forcing us to buy certain turrets, alterations, protections. Devs always amaze me with these. 

 

 

Hey, if you're fine with the constant changes that's up to you.  I just don't share your opinion on it.

[Maf 32,300]

 

Wait a second...Hammer will fire those (up to) 5 shots even quicker? How is that a 'nerf'? Takes less time to kill a heavy hull...

 

"So, we'll be increasing the reload speed between shots, but reloading your clip will take longer."

No, it will fire them slower. "increasing reload speed" means increasing the time needed to reload between shots, i.e. more time passes between each shot. So both aspects of Hammer's reload (time between shots and time to get full clip) have been nerfed.

 

While I'm at it, I'd like to request devs to add a reload key for Hammer. I know they specifically don't want to add it to make hammer harder to use, but I think it's necessary now that the reload got such a big nerf. And if they don't want to add any separate keys to the controls, then perhaps reload can be implemented by double-tapping space between shots?

 

 

In those 2 years noone complained about Isidas in supply-free battles.

Wrong. Multiple Isida's healing each other in a no-supply CTF battle was the most effective strategy to steal a flag. A lot of players hated it simply because of how powerful it was and how little skill it required.

[N.o.6.o.d.y 575]

hazel here?!

[wolverine848 13,097]

No, it will fire them slower. "increasing reload speed" means increasing the time needed to reload between shots, i.e. more time passes between each shot. So both aspects of Hammer's reload (time between shots and time to get full clip) have been nerfed.

 

While I'm at it, I'd like to request devs to add a reload key for Hammer. I know they specifically don't want to add it to make hammer harder to use, but I think it's necessary now that the reload got such a big nerf. And if they don't want to add any separate keys to the controls, then perhaps reload can be implemented by double-tapping space between shots?

Ok - as worded now it is a bit confusing.  When you increase the speed of something you make it faster. And the "something" here is reload.

 

"Increased reload time" or "decreased reload speed" would seem more appropriate.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Wrong. Multiple Isida's healing each other in a no-supply CTF battle was the most effective strategy to steal a flag. A lot of players hated it simply because of how powerful it was and how little skill it required.

I've edited that into my post before I read your reply.

 

There is an idea in the ideas section, that targets to reduce the healing rate if it is applied by an Isida to another ISida. Simply because they have self-healing anyways. This would have targeted the isida-party issue.

[Lankero 595]

M4 Hammer was indeed pretty overpowered, but I'm afraid they've nerfed it now, like they do to all overpowered guns. 

I'm a pretty good hammer player so I'm not worried about reducing the amount of pellets, unless the spread-area still stayed the same as with 21 pellets (?). I'm a bit afraid of the longer reload, but we gotta see what happened, but I guess I wont be using Hammer as much anymore in the future. And I just bought the alteration of 5 shots, well that was 80k down the drain :lol: And I'm looking forward to see the bouncing affect of the pellets, will have lots of fun with that (hopefully :lol: ). 

 

I'm not an Isida user, but it's sad to see this turret being turned to crap, honestly. The self-healing used to be it's unique feature for years, and now you just nerfed it, but let's see how will it work in real battles, but I have a feeling Isidas will get 10x more rarer in battles, just like the last time you "updated" Isida. 

 

Shaft's damage increased........ I'm out. Increasing the damage of Shaft will just create more campers who just sit on their asses in some corners, waiting for someone to come out. And those are *censored* annoying, especially when you're trying to attack, and you always get 1 shotted by some noob who has the same modification of shaft as you have your medium hull. And isn't this game supposed to be intense and "challenging" or whatever, well camping surely destroys that element of this game. But I'l not start talking about campers in this topic, as its kind of off-topic Lol: 

 

But let's just see how will these work in real battles.. 

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

No, it will fire them slower. "increasing reload speed" means increasing the time needed to reload between shots, i.e. more time passes between each shot.

Speed does correlate to the inversion of time (more speed -> needs less time to reach some target (location, pressure, filling degree, any other parameter)).

 

increase of reload speed = decrease of reload time

increase of reload time = decrease of reload speed.

[Maf 32,300]

I've edited that into my post before I read your reply.

 

There is an idea in the ideas section, that targets to reduce the healing rate if it is applied by an Isida to another ISida. Simply because they have self-healing anyways. This would have targeted the isida-party issue.

Well, now they no longer self-heal, so that idea may no longer be as necessary. We'll see how this plays out.

[Maf 32,300]

Speed does correlate to the inversion of time (more speed -> needs less time to reach some target (location, pressure, filling degree, any other parameter)).

 

increase of reload speed = decrease of reload time

increase of reload time = decrease of reload speed.

Agreed, "decreased reload speed" makes more sense. We might change that.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Well, now they no longer self-heal, so that idea may no longer be as necessary. We'll see how this plays out.

but your concern that they are still very effective in an Isida team is still valid,

so a solution to the problem is still needed.

 

The only thing that makes Isida parties less common now, is that noone wants to start an Isida party.

In the past you saw 2 ISidas in your team and you thought like "hey, I take one too, and lets rock!".

 

Today you see no Isida, you don't even think about equipping it by yourself to start it, and so they became more rare.

 

But the reason why they are rare, is actually a sad one, a wrong one.

[Maf 32,300]

Today you see no Isida, you don't even think about equipping it by yourself to start it, and so they became more rare.

 

But the reason why they are rare, is actually a sad one, a wrong one.

Well, maybe they are a lot rarer compared to before (when often a THIRD of all players in a battle were Isidas), but are they really that rare? Because in a perfectly balanced game where each weapon is equally powerful and interesting, each weapon will have equal demand, so ideally, only 1/12 (or around 8%) of players should use Isidas.

[jdc20181 213]

Very well thought out and effective to increase a better gameplay experience I like it!

[KILL_BILL_CHAUHAN 2,505]

What are you doing about the alteration to double self healing that people bought? (myself included)

they will just remove it simple :P

[KILL_BILL_CHAUHAN 2,505]

Well, maybe they are a lot rarer compared to before (when often a THIRD of all players in a battle were Isidas), but are they really that rare? Because in a perfectly balanced game where each weapon is equally powerful and interesting, each weapon will have equal demand, so ideally, only 1/12 (or around 8%) of players should use Isidas.

I don't think there are 8% striker user :P

[stanzhang 3,291]

Isida is going to do more damage than firebird and freeze in DPM. Sounds op :)

Shaft is going to be the most powerful weapon now if he one-shot kill medium tanks that are at the turret’s same upgrade level smaller tanks with shaft protection are going to be useless facing that. I already have difficulties to survive m3 shaft shot with m4 Hornet and Prodigi, now there will be no chance for me to survive. 

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Well, maybe they are a lot rarer compared to before (when often a THIRD of all players in a battle were Isidas), but are they really that rare? Because in a perfectly balanced game where each weapon is equally powerful and interesting, each weapon will have equal demand, so ideally, only 1/12 (or around 8%) of players should use Isidas.

 

In a game that is balanced by power, the players have the chance to pick the turrets and hulls that they love to play with; and they will have equal chances on the battlefields.

 

In a game that is balanced by diversity, the players will be forced out of using the turrets that they love on a regular base, even if those turrets and hulls are balanced by power.

 

 

Balance by diversity is a very dangerous paradigm.

No Supermarket would make your beloved icecream less tasty, in order to force you to buy more of the spinach-ice-cream, in order to "maintain the balance". They adapt the price (to make use of your favours) and still everyone is happy.

 

 

 

 

Even if you make the game perfectly balanced in power, you never will achieve to make each turret equally interresting to the players; there are simply different kinds of persons out there.

The human kind is not 1/3 rusher, 1/3 tactica, 1/3 camper.

 

If you still try to have an equal amount of each turret htrough out the game, then you can achieve it only by one way:

Step 1: balance power

Step 2: monitor which turrets are played most (now only because players like them, not because they are more powerfull)

Step 3: and then disbalance the power or anoy the owners of the overused turrets.

 

 

 

 

Or in other words:

it uses to p*ss it's players off, instead to balance power and accept the human kind as non-equally-shared-minded as we simply are.

Edited February 15, 2017 by BlackWasp777

[Maf 32,300]

Balance by diversity is a very dangerous paradigm.

No Supermarket would make your beloved icecream less tasty, in order to force you to buy more spinach-ice-cream, in order to "maintain the balance".

True, but a supermarket could also make all other ice cream more tasty, so that you would be tempted to try other brands because they are just as good as your favourite :)

 

This is a very ideal example of gameplay balance. One that even the Balance Genius Lord Hazel would struggle to achieve, but I'm sure it's something many of us want this game to be.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

True, but a supermarket could also make all other ice cream more tasty, so that you would be tempted to try other brands because they are just as good as your favourite :)

 

This is a very ideal example of gameplay balance. One that even the Balance Genius Lord Hazel would struggle to achieve, but I'm sure it's something many of us want this game to be.

because taste is something that people like

For Isida they never get what most of the Isida players asked for in order to balance it.

(and no, most of them did not ask for more damage; not 2 years ago, not 2 months ago, and not 2 days ago)

 

Makin spinach-Icecream more tasty, is like trying to sell you a car that has a rear-crash by polisihing it's front ;)

It's like giving you something you did not ask for, in order to make you swallow something that you do not want.

 

Search spinach ice cream in your supermarket, and then think why noone tries to make it tasty. Then you get an idea, why Isidas are so rare.

Edited February 15, 2017 by BlackWasp777

[Bugs.meeny 1,013]

So is Hammers time between shots getting longer or shorter? Cedric says the reload speed is increased, which means it will take less time between shots, but Mafioso says its getting longer?

[stanzhang 3,291]

So is Hammers time between shots getting longer or shorter? Cedric says the reload speed is increased, which means it will take less time between shots, but Mafioso says its getting longer?

Increasing reload speed means it will take longer.

As an example, if your reload speed is 5 seconds, you need to wait for 5s before your gun to charge up. If it gets increased to 6s, it will take more time for it to reload.

[Bugs.meeny 1,013]

Increasing reload speed means it will take longer.

As an example, if your reload speed is 5 seconds, you need to wait for 5s before your gun to charge up. If it gets increased to 6s, it will take more time for it to reload.

Wouldnt that be reload time?