Supplies experiment #2 this weekend

[Viking4s 10,791]

The gameplay was not too different from usual, just that the effect of each supplies (and drops) are less effective as they wear of quickly. On small map it's fine but on big map the effect of the drops are stripped from interest, unless you stay in the vicinity of the drops, which is only interesting for campers or defenders.
Instead of 30% time effect reduction why not have a reduction of the supplies power for DD and DA from +50%  down to +40% (and align with Speed boost).

 

[M.O.N.O.X.Y.D.E 123]

Make this experiment permanent for normal battles if you want. But don't mess pro battles.

Yes, I totally agree with you !

                                                                                                                                                                

Mmmmh ... I don't want to talk a lot so I just think that supplies was better before this test and the first test too

Edited March 12, 2017 by M.O.N.O.X.Y.D.E

[Spoon 1,030]

Mmmmh ... I don't want to talk a lot so I just think that supplies was better before this test and the first test too

I agree! It was much better :P

[M.O.N.O.X.Y.D.E 123]

Hopefully, it was just a test ! So I hope it will stay a test and don't become reality

[ShooterLeBaron 3]

Well, this is another fine mess we've gotten into.  Another experiment. This one was TRULY WORSE than the first. Unless you are a math genius, you couldn't tell when you were going to get anything back. If your tank was destroyed just after getting one or more supplies up, there was nothing available when your tank re-spawned. HUH??

 

Question. Since we all spend money (crystals) -- hard earned for some of us -- to buy supplies, and it comes from our pockets (except for the drop boxes and missions) why do we have to have timers on the supplies. Some people use them (most tankers) some choose not to, but you are PENALIZING the ones who CHOOSE to use them by setting timers on them. For the ones who don't like "drugs" they can play PRO battles or set up battles without them.

 

If all the supplies came free from Tanki, it's another story, but we pay for our supplies and should be able to use them as we see fit. Would it give some an advantage? Yes, but they PAY for that advantage.

 

If you MUST set limits, at least let us use all (or whatever combination  we need) and then shut them all off for 30 seconds (or whatever) simultaneously.. but not here and there and keep us guessing when we can have 2 or more available.

 

Some people have a limited income (many do) and judicial use of supplies is a necessity. Very few have unlimited resources to use "drugs" all the time... We should be able to come to a natural balance ourselves.

 

Thank you.

[r_carlo1234 118]

While this is a relevant topic, I'd like to point out a few great proposals for supplies, posted by players during the last year. They're not complete solutions on their own, but in my opinion they would definitely help solve the problems associated with the way supplies work at the moment. 

 

1. Repair kit rework.

Suggestion to make it so that the repair kit only becomes available when a player hasn't taken damage for some seconds. Currently, repair kits are considered to be the most powerful supply, so this would make them less of a frustration for everyone. It would mean that players won't be able to simply use a repair kit while taking heavy fire. They would have to get away and hide first and then repair. That way there would be fewer annoying situations where you shoot as some heavy hull for 30 seconds and then he just heals himself, or you almost kill an attacker with your flag, but he heals and gets away.

 

So the repair kit would have its own cooldown as usual, but instead of SCD, the timer would reset every time the player takes damage and the repair kit would become available once a player doesn't take damage for a few (2 or 3) seconds. It would require some extra effort to change the repair kit this way, but I think it's worth it.

 

2.Reduced effects of supplies

This is a suggestion for another supply experiment, where instead of changing cooldowns, the actual effect of supplies is reduced. This was suggested multiple times in this and the previous experiment topics, and it seems like the next logical step, since changing cooldown and SCD durations doesn't seem to be successful.

 

3. Rework supply usage

This one is my favourite. It's a very big change, so I have a feeling it would definitely affect the game a lot (although not sure if it would be positive, negative, or both). The idea is to only use supplies when they are actually used: Nitro - only when moving, Armour - only when taking damage, DD - only when shooting, repair - only when the tank's health goes below full (after activation). This definitely makes sense for Nitro and DA. Not sure about the last two (DD and RK), it seems like this change might make them OP. But then again, if a supply becomes OP, it can always be nerfed by other means like reducing power or increasing cooldown.

 

4. Remake speed boost

Not as good of an idea as those above, but I'll mention it anyway despite the obvious flaws. This is similar to #3, but only for Nitro. The proposal is to add a way to manually use the speed boost with a separate key. So you would get a new meter somewhere on the interface to indicate how much boost you have (like the reload bar for firebird) and when you press the key to boost, the meter goes down. Once it empties, the cooldown starts and a new Nitro supply is used. It could look like a mix between the Firebird and Hammer reload bars, where the meter goes down gradually while you have the activation key pressed, but it only starts reloading once it runs out completely.

 

 

Most of these require extra development effort because they're not just a case of simply changing some numbers around, but like I said in a previous post here, I don't think there's an easy way to solve the problem and a more complex solution is required.

Those are horrible ideas in my opinion, except for reducing the effect of supplies, which Hazel is saying no to.

 

Repair kit should be removed from stantard battles. It's the best solution. No more 1 man team in CTF games as you will most likely die while carrying the flag back home without any support from teammates.

Or at least make its cooldown longer. 1 RK in every 2 minutes sounds good.

Sometimes your team is full of noobs and mults. You need to be able to use supplies whenever you want, specially to counter druggers.

 

A tanker should NOT be able to take a Repair Kit if his health bar is 95%+. It is so damn frustrating to be a medium hull with a sliver of health having to race a fully healthy (team mate but noob player) Wasp for a Repair Kit when it is obvious which of us two need it the most.

I use Repair Kits just to counter druggers and sometimes to annoy them, so they think twice in coming after me.

 

Make this experiment permanent for normal battles if you want. But don't mess pro battles.

Not this experiment, but I agree, there should be 3 systems: one that is more limiting for regular battles, one that is less limiting and the one without cooldowns for PRO Battles.

 

Hi there again TotallyNotRiddler. Who told you that my goal is to make supplies less 'powerfull'? If I only needed to make them less 'powerfull' I would just cut the bonus and held experiment that way. But it is clearly not what is happening. I am not cutting their power, I am adding certain mechanic to existing formula with certain goal.

 

And so far, this experiment goes really good.

That's how we understand with these supply experiments. We get the message that 'supplies are bad' and you're doing something about them. So, many of us are saying just make them less powerful, probably because we don't see a solution with timing and cooldowns. Unless, maybe, a new supply system becomes less attractive to druggers that they jump to PRO Battles instead, where they could have more options, including the current system, leaving non druggers alone and happy. But I'm not sure about that.

 

Maybe you should use this idea of Experiment Filter to see people's preferences:

 

 

Initial cooldown not a good idea though, sometimes I need Speed Boost right away to get my Titan to cover or to go after the enemy's flag carrier. I haven't experienced spawn killers these couple of days, but that's a concern too.

[NamesAreForNoobs 324]

1. Repair kit rework.

Suggestion to make it so that the repair kit only becomes available when a player hasn't taken damage for some seconds. Currently, repair kits are considered to be the most powerful supply, so this would make them less of a frustration for everyone. It would mean that players won't be able to simply use a repair kit while taking heavy fire. They would have to get away and hide first and then repair. That way there would be fewer annoying situations where you shoot as some heavy hull for 30 seconds and then he just heals himself, or you almost kill an attacker with your flag, but he heals and gets away.

 

So the repair kit would have its own cooldown as usual, but instead of SCD, the timer would reset every time the player takes damage and the repair kit would become available once a player doesn't take damage for a few (2 or 3) seconds. It would require some extra effort to change the repair kit this way, but I think it's worth it.

I like the sounds of this, I bet there would be a lot fewer players complaining about supplies. However, It might be an indirect nerf to turrets with reload times over the reset duration.

[MercuryS0 67]

Focus on what really matters Tanki... I strongly dislike the idea of people having modules that offer more than 40% protection from ANY turret. It is extremely hard to play against some lame buyers who have literally poured their entire life saving into obtaining a 50% protection module against your turret plus they get high on them repairs kits and double damage + double armor. Not everyone can afford every turret in the game and nor can they have them all at the required modification level. For example, if I encounter a shaft that has 50% against my shaft, my only other option is my rail M3 or twins M2, the sad part about that is my rail is that it is M3 5/50 and his shaft is M4 and still has a protection module that offers 50% my rail... I am obviously going to lose, forget about skill, the raw power that that player has is enough and that ruins the game. The real problem is the base stats of certain players, supplies are essentially add-ons forget about those for now. Sort out the base stats first, make a balanced game once and for all, you're gradually losing more and more players because you're being hard headed and not listening to us and it is getting rather boring.

Edited March 12, 2017 by MercuryS0

[740i 2]

This sort of rubbish just makes the game unplayable, leave it alone or we will go and play something else. We buy the supplies to progress through the game, take that away and there is no point in playing. 

 

[Apex_Predator 537]

I strongly dislike the idea of people having modules that offer more than 40% protection from ANY turret. 

Lol, I have 49% protction against shaft, because shafter's are lame as hell, and always use fat hulls, i wasted ton of crystals just to avoid that one shot kill from nowhere  :D 

 

if you want 50% protection to be removed, well, sir, i want shaft removed, and Titan and mamouth, just think of how Tanki would be awesome with just medium & small hulls everywhere, we would had soooo much funds, but you wanna kill and not get killed, so we have this slow Sumo & non dynamic battles in high ranks, all are using Titan these days.  <_< 

 

anyway, back to our topic, i think this system is more balanced than our regular system, and better than the first EXP, it does not take much from buyers, and give free players fair chance, and thats what we just want, we don't want to unpower buyers to our level, we just want some fighting chance, this system provide that.  :wub: 

Edited March 12, 2017 by Apex_Predator

[Bydo 20,126]

 

And so far, this experiment goes really good.

Well Sir you have made up your mind and have decided to  ignore half of the players comments on how rotten this testing was.. but as you can see u are telling us now why bother to post any more comments when your mind has been decided .. so why bother wasting our time and getting our feed back when it clearly shows that u had no intentions on wanting helpful advise.. To me this test will be implemented in the near future..

 

like others have said in the past / also my self .. I have decided not to spend any more $$ into this game , and why bother doing any more of my missions when the $$ I spend and time is now a waste of space .. when the drugs I paid for in the past have no use to how they were suppose to be intended on being used is now a waste of $$ for them ..so now they will waste away in my garage just like my crystals ..

[Desty 275]

And so far, this experiment goes really good.

 

Out of curiosity, based on what kind of data you can so confidently tell that this experiment is going well? Because this attempt didn't bring 34 pages of hate as last one? Because you got so much ''positive'' feedback in RU forums?

 

I'm still trying to find out what is the point of these experiments, what are you really trying to accomplish? Can't be cap between buyers and non buyers, because this setup does't change anything(buyers/druggers still drug, people still hate unfair gameplay on normal battles, campers still camp and now even more). ONLY thing I could think of is to ''rebalance'' turrets/hulls again, due to the fact, that some turrets which are OP-ed with both DA/DD activated, are now UP-ed, so people will have to rebuy/MU different setups(just as paint seperation and alternations, hands down - ok updates), which means they will either play more to get crystals or pay more to get what they need faster.

 

I still think that these huge game changing experiments should be decided by community. Make a Poll after experiment, display it when tanker logs into the game or display it under daily missions, so people would be more keen to actually vote. Because 80% of active players do not visit forums. 

 

It feels exactly that you are trying to change car's broken engine with differently broken engine.

[lukey0 27,543]

And so far, this experiment goes really good.

Obviously we are not complaining hard enough...

 

We don't wont it. 

[Apex_Predator 537]

Out of curiosity, based on what kind of data you can so confidently tell that this experiment is going well? Because this attempt didn't bring 34 pages of hate as last one? Because you got so much ''positive'' feedback in RU forums?

 

I'm still trying to find out what is the point of these experiments, what are you really trying to accomplish? Can't be cap between buyers and non buyers, because this setup does't change anything(buyers/druggers still drug, people still hate unfair gameplay on normal battles, campers still camp and now even more). ONLY thing I could think of is to ''rebalance'' turrets/hulls again, due to the fact, that some turrets which are OP-ed with both DA/DD activated, are now UP-ed, so people will have to rebuy/MU different setups(just as paint seperation and alternations, hands down - ok updates), which means they will either play more to get crystals or pay more to get what they need faster.

 

I still think that these huge game changing experiments should be decided by community. Make a Poll after experiment, display it when tanker logs into the game or display it under daily missions, so people would be more keen to actually vote. Because 80% of active players do not visit forums. 

 

It feels exactly that you are trying to change car's broken engine with differently broken engine.

Guys, no need to be angry at Hazel, he see the full picture while most of us just care about being OP than everybody else (at least I admit it, you should do it too).  :) 

 

 if buyers got REALLY OP than free players, wich is what we have curently, free players will run away after a while and go for other fair game.

 

its your lost too because you won't find anyone to humiliate and crystal farm and pray on like you usually do, they will be only the very pro buyers here, so fighting another buyer take all your adventage, be considerate to us the free players and accept the new system please.  :)

 

 if you don't, then at least give us some good arguments, not the old "I just don't like it, keep our OP drug system that only benefit me, the buyer with infinit supplies".  -_-

 

anyway, while you care only about how OP your Premium Tank is compared to free players, Hazel care about the game itself, it's such a nobel thing to do to read all our whining and take it like a man like he does, respect !  :wub: 

[lukey0 27,543]

 if buyers got REALLY OP than free players, wich is what we have curently, free players will run away after a while and go for other fair game.

You obviously joined early 2015 or sooner, or you wouldn't be saying that. What was it like when I started? Glad you asked.

You were either;

1) A buyer pressing 234 when you wish.

2) A high ranker with experience pressing 234 when you need to. or

3) The typical noob/defenseless player with no supplies and Tier 1 equipment versing Tier 2 M3's. 

That was before the Rebalence. Quite unfair, eh?

 

Well after the rebalance players were placed in more fairer battles because here were more ranks with M2's M1's etc giving players time to save up, but buyers still had the edge pressing 234 all the time and winning.

 

Late 2014, SCD were introduced. This balanced supplies. Now you couldn't be on full drug for longer than 10 sec unless you take drops. Now a buyer can't activate more supplies than a non-buyer. Right now Tanki hands out supplies almost like they ARE free. There is no excuse for having 'no supplies'. 

 

This experiment takes it to a new silly extreme. Supplies aren't even worth the 50 crystals. They are boring to use, boring to play with, and battles are barely dynamic. 

 

 

I'm a free player. Never spent a cent on this account, I don't plan too. Look what I have. If people stopped complaining and spent that time working on their account they could have it too. People think if they complain enough everything they want will be handed to them on a silver platter. Well it won't. The world doesn't work like that.

 

 

 if you don't, then at least give us some good arguments, not the old "I just don't like it, keep our OP drug system that only benefit me, the buyer with infinit supplies".  -_-

Such a cliché stereotype. Because thats exactly what all the posts in the topic, except yours was about. You're more arrogant than I thought. 

 

Rant over.

[r_carlo1234 118]

I just checked EN3 and EN4 with my WO5 account and I'm seeing more PRO Battles than Regular Battles. Could it be the experiment, or I'm missing something?

 

If it is the experiment. Would "druggers" accept going to PRO Battles to play the battles they like if Tanki decides to implement one of the experimental systems, assuming regular SCD will be an option there?

[Dliver 436]

I've been trying to keep an open mind. I keep playing and it just gets worse. Frustration just keeps building and building. Carrying over cool downs after being killed is absolutely the worst idea to come down the pike to try and supposedly re-balance the game. Please please just give us the option for either supplies or no supplies in the regular games. At least experiment with it for a weekend and see what happens. It definitely will not in your wildest dreams be worse than the last 2 experiments. Please listen to us for a change. It will make the non-druggers happy and the people who like supplies will be happy. A win win situation. It's the simplest fix to the problem that will make the most people happy and is the easiest to do.

 

With this experiment in, I definitely prefer non-drug games. Though I find them not as fun as drug allowed games but at least everything is equal. This experiment totally throws the balance off in favor of those who overwhelm the other guys base first or gets to the spawn points first. You have absolutely no chance to fight your way out when they're sitting there with drugs activated. You just die and die till you can activate something to get away. Then you have to go and hide till you can use health or some other drug in order to fight back. That is why having the option to pick drug or non-drug games is so important. I totally understand the non-drug viewpoint now. It is totally unfair for the non-drugger people to have to go through what you've put us through these last 2 experiments. Which is what you have forced them to do day in and day out over the last couple of years. It's no wonder they hate buyers so much.  You took away the non-drug option years ago please give it back so the non-drug people can enjoy the game too and so that you don't ruin it for those who like using drugs.

 

The only good thing to come out of this is that if anything even remotely like these 2 experiments is put in force then I will never have to spend another dime on the game. I will just play non-drug games or play the other online game that I've started splitting my time with and spending my money on. Sorry I'm no longer a pure Tanki player. These stupid experiments made me look else where and I found something that is fun to play and worth spending money on without the frustration that keeps building from this game.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Dliver

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

If this gets implemented, I can see tanki dying down into forgotten land. Have you lost your minds, stop these lame experiments, the supplies are balanced the way they are, not including the experiment, and to those players who say it's not, then give me a very good reason other than buyers can be 8 times stronger than free players.

 

 

You are basically giving the players who have been supporting you financially for years now the middle finger and telling them take a hike <_<

 

 

Stop listening to the 8 year old kids that whine and complain becuase they want to win every one of their battles and start listening to us more mature players.

 

And if the players that have been financially supporting you for years want to be OP, then let them. They paid their hard earned real cash to buy it because they have a job, so they should be given those advantages.

 

Free players have egos while the buyers do not. The only exception is that I'm a free player but I don't have an ego. So yes, I'm supporting buyers in what they do, because once you lose them, then the game shuts down, simple :/

Edited March 13, 2017 by DieselPlatinum

[Bydo 20,126]

in the past you stated MINORITY rules.. well again this time the minority hates this up date..

 

.. I guess my complaints will now have to go to head office AlternativaPlatform ...

[Flw 1,625]

Don't like it <_<

 

Hope the standard version will remain.

[whiteknight 130]

Whenever developers start something like "supplies experiment" they should provide say 50 supplies to everyone so that players will actually take part in these experiments. Currently, as of what I've noticed in middle ranks, there are not much battles with supplies enabled. I really like this supplies experiment but when i asked my clan mates about it, they were like"i dont care" they are happy playing no supplies battles. I too like playing no supplies battles but this time the experiment with the supplies is a good step in making a battle fair for non-druggers playing with druggers. So I guess providing a small number of supplies will encourage players to take part in the experiments.

 

 

 

How can players get these free supplies?

 

Developers can add special daily missions on "supplies experiment" days.

For example.

 

 

"mission"

reward   20 X all supplies

 

 

[X.Z.F 1,044]

Terrible Experiment Don't add this in the game!

[Maf 32,300]

 

Topic merged

[Redlinezak_EN 83]

I don't mean to repeat ideas that have come up before (well i guess i actually do) but the problem as i see it is not the length of time that supplies are active for or the cooldown time etc it is the immediate effect of supplies to win a confrontation or make off with a flag etc which currently can be relentless.

 

The solution as i see it is to limit the amount of supplies used in a battle (say for arguments sake you can 10 supplies in a 15 minute battle.

That instantly makes supplies a tactical choice and add another level to the gameplay.  Maybe you could give buyers the option to increase the supply use by 50% for a fee or something?

The big problem for Tanki is that this instantly limits a revenue stream.  Even if the cost (both cash and cry) of drugs increased the fact that the use of drugs in a battle is limited will remove the revenue.

 

I am sure there are ways around this revenue loss but this is i think the only way that drugs can be leveled to a degree.

 

Imagine how fun a battle would be knowing that you only had that 1 DA and 1 RK left and you needed 1 more flag to win.  When do you use it - when i ask ya :).

Or imagine that you don't use your supplies immediately but try and fight off one attack from drugged opponents by just 1 of your team using their  drugs then you can mount a counter to a team with less drugs etc.

I think it would add a lot.

 

As tanki are experimenting with different methods then maybe just a weekend with something like this might be worth a try and if it is liked then try to work out a business plan / case that makes it work?

[ByeByeBye 1,747]

supplies experiment #2   FAIL

 

This system is awful with it's carry-over cooldowns.  What is the point?  All it did was promote spawn killing...on each side.  If my side got the timing edge we ran over and slaughtered opponents as they respawned at their base.  Then it would switch around and they would slaughter us at our base.  Where is any skill in that?  It is just a mecanical grind.

 

When not spawn killing, I felt I had to pay attention to my supply situation more than watching my opponents positions which is not really much in terms of skills.   It felt to me as if the supply system was made more important in the game as opposed to outmanuvering your opponent.

 

Overall, I don't think this type of system would change anything in terms of supply use.  Druggers would continue to drug and non-druggers would still complain about it.  There is no point to this change other than change for it's own sake.

 

If this experiment were to be implemented I would try to seek out no-drug pro battles all the time.  The trouble with that, at least in current play, is they are very hard to find.  

 

Instead of changing the supplies system couldn't you just make standard battles drug or no drug?  That would be wonderful and make druggers and non-druggers happy.  Or have a way to easily see if a pro battles were drug or non-drug like the way you display duration on the main battle menu now.  I believe this would be welcomed by all players.  

 

I'm so very tired of the constant changes.