Supplies experiment #2 this weekend

[Maf 32,300]

This shows that it would be nice to nerf the power of supplies as opposed to the use frequency.  If a drugs-on tank became more like a drugs-off tank in terms of power then people would actually take their chances attacking with only 1 supply.

Only if their price is also reduced proportionally. But somehow I don't see that happening.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Only if their price is also reduced proportionally. But somehow I don't see that happening.

Of course refund porportionally to those who own supplies, but why reduce the price?  They would still give an advantage and the one that could drug more would drug more, as the cooldowns would be negligible. So it would be a question of "can you afford it"? Not a question of "play PRO battles until you have M4s and drugs"-which, by the way, might take a while. ;)

 

Again, there are many different proposals for the supplies system; this is just one of them.  What it comes down to is designing a system that doesn't make Tanki one of the most frustrating games out there. :lol:

Edited March 11, 2017 by r_I_already_won0

[Apex_Predator 537]

ok for one regardless if I'am a buyer or not.. we do have the right to speak our opinion on this update.., this is why the Dev's put this out  to us . so we can test it out and also give feed back.. now besides that I have played tanki for almost 4 years and have seen many updates to this system ..further more, we as players have given our feed back on how this system could be better , on having three tear battles / in other words get rid of the pro pass and replace the pass  for XP/BP , parkour battles .. if they would listen to players who have given them an idea of what to do then we all could battle the way we want .. first have one as regular battles with drops which are limited and no drugs other then drops ,/ then one for druggers which is more drops and fully the use of garage drugs with no limits .. then for the non druggers battles with no drops and no drugs used.. this way would please all.. now we did have similar battles in the past like this and we wish they would bring them back this way they would get less complaints.. and if you think about it this is what pro pass was intended t be used but for some odd reason were here being test bunnies for a system which has failed again..

 

. for those who are going into battles and staying the whole time and not playing those I wish would stop doing this cause your taking another players spot that really wants to play and can put the effort into a great game play for others..

 

sorry if this is provoking others , this was not my intentions on doing so .. but to get my point across .. cause I still see many battles that I go into and see a player in a battle which gets killed but never kills others in DM battles and others.. your not just destroying our battle time but also doing damage to your ratings...

i like your comment man :) 

 

and i have no problem with buyers at all, the only problem i have is that people use drugs when they don't even need to.

 

the players that we all have problem with are those heavy druggers that they are so rude all the time, they use drugs ALL the time, they are obssesed with being 5 times stronger than everybody else, usually you can't find them in non drug battle because they are so used to pressing 3 2 1 buttons like its theire movement arrows, and you will NEVER see them in larg maps because they are always crystal farming in small maps with theire m4 heavy Tanks (usually a Titan m4 now atfer Oct rebalance) at the cost of some noob enemy team, they always play Island or arena DM or point, with no auto finich, to be able to crystal farm on you, while you wait for the last flag cap, or leave without any funds and they use drugs Non stop, and i literally mean NON STOP.  -_- 

Edited March 11, 2017 by Apex_Predator

[ridone 4,740]

bad again ! :angry:

[murcielagoes 331]

Instead of doing these supply experiments, how about if we make supplies cheaper to the point where nearly everyone will start using them or we can have a constant supply sale (once every month) just to even with the buyers, i think its a way to somehow decrease the people calling out druggers etc.

 

And for the supply experiments that tanki's been doing, we can have those as an option for pro battles instead of implementing them fully

 

 

[murcielagoes 331]

How about implementing this experiment in the game once and for all but for pro battles option only, What's the difference right, we don't really have to try it, kind of like the nerfs/buffs of turrets that's been happening lately, right?! 

[Maf 32,300]

Instead of doing these supply experiments, how about if we make supplies cheaper to the point where nearly everyone will start using them or we can have a constant supply sale (once every month) just to even with the buyers, i think its a way to somehow decrease the people calling out druggers etc.

 

And for the supply experiments that tanki's been doing, we can have those as an option for pro battles instead of implementing them fully

Topic merged

[a7x_Pedro48 13,999]

This is so boring... When I join in a middle of a DM, I am just an easy target for everyone. And 30 seconds for a supplie is way too short. I feel like I am wasting my supplies.

 

I just played a Polygon CP pro battle to complete my 3 missions and that's all. I don't feel like playing anymore today.

[deathfromabove_tanki 92]

Two thumbs down. I do not like this. 

 

I usually play PRO battles anyway, but this is horrible

[Dliver 436]

Once again we see that the Dev's are not paying attention to what their customers are saying. Starting a game and spawning totally vulnerable was the main complaint in the last test. What do they do????? The thing that a majority hated the most, that of leaving you totally vulnerable. Imagine spawning on the highway map with 2 to 4 shaft lasers on you and no way to protect yourself, or spawning in the middle of a group from the other team that's sitting on the spawn point and you have no chance to even take one out. In no supply games (which I like to play too) everyone is even so you have a chance. But when others are using supplies and you can't your dead, and that kinda takes the fun out of the game. And as everyone knows - when the game ain't no more fun then no one plays it.

 

I can deal with changing cool down times, how may supplies can be activated at one time, or even changing the effectiveness of the supplies, but to just have you start out totally helpless is just wrong.

 

The point is this - Supplies or no supplies, the aim is to make the game fair. Re-spawning in a game totally defenseless is not fair.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Dliver

[Dliver 436]

I spawned in a DM battle and there were 2 Ricochets with Double Damage next to me. I didn't use any supply because they would kill me any way, because of that I would have to wait for an extremely long cool down after I had been killed. In the old system I could press Double Armor and First Aid, and possibly get away...

This was quite annoying IMO, so I finished my mission and quit the game for today, so that my weekly Mission cycle is complete.

That's exactly what I did today. This test just as bad as the last one!

[lukey0 27,543]

After playing a decent amount, I don't really like this. The old one was better. 

[fordmustang12345 3,910]

Hmmm..... Not going to get a chance to play this weekend but judging from the stats in the OP it should be better then last time. Although I hate the reduced time cause trust me. 30 seconds of Speed boost is nowhere even close to enough time in CTF.say I'm in a Monte Carlo CTF. I activate it where the DD drop is on the lower platform, it takes a minimum of 45-60 seconds to rush to the enemy base , fight through the defense and jump the gap .......

Edited March 12, 2017 by fordmustang12345

[Bydo 20,127]

i like your comment man :) 

 

and i have no problem with buyers at all, the only problem i have is that people use drugs when they don't even need to.

 

the players that we all have problem with are those heavy druggers that they are so rude all the time, they use drugs ALL the time, they are obssesed with being 5 times stronger than everybody else, usually you can't find them in non drug battle because they are so used to pressing 3 2 1 buttons like its theire movement arrows, and you will NEVER see them in larg maps because they are always crystal farming in small maps with theire m4 heavy Tanks (usually a Titan m4 now atfer Oct rebalance) at the cost of some noob enemy team, they always play Island or arena DM or point, with no auto finich, to be able to crystal farm on you, while you wait for the last flag cap, or leave without any funds and they use drugs Non stop, and i literally mean NON STOP.  -_- 

Well sir for the record .I'am a lady who is a buyer and a fully user of drugs none stop.. but I refuse to leave battles and loose my crystals.. in fact this week alone I dropped 10 gold box's and I took 2 of them .. Not sure why.. also I use Ricochet / Hornet and have been doing large DM  battles along with medium size maps most of the time.. for us drugger we figured out the system and have done so for many a years.. you can battle in  private battles without drugs and this is where pro passes come into effect ..but then we have players who complain on the cost of this and yet most or all plus crystals are  returned to players.. so we get complaints from all sides in this game...

 

we get players complaining about druggers / mults / none druggers / camping and so on .. so trying to get a small picture and figure out what works for everyone is not easy.. see when they first put out the pro pass players enjoyed having it cause it took them away from the campers / mults and full time druggers.. they also enjoyed it cause they were in control of the battles with there friends ..now most players / friends have been leaving. so this pro pass thing is not working for most players.. so I have stated what I would like to see in this game and same with others..

 

For this experiment the cool down and even the start up time do's not work .. due to the fact when its happening you end up getting killed or your battling with no drugs .. for the none druggers this is great for them ..but on the other hand not really cause of there exp is higher .for the druggers tanks . your also struggling to kill players .. This experiment also damages players ratings for there K/D rate..so will this work , nope.. like I said for so long let us make our own battles in regular system or get rid of the pro pass and allow us to choose battles at our FREE crystals .. those battles for full druggers or those for none.. if they want some open that anything goes then go for it..

 

. BUT HOLD the fingers .. Is this not we have  with pro passes...

 

so why change the system when in THE END .. Go PRO PASS .

 

.. to eliminate the complaints.. but make them free for all to use..! !!!!!!

Edited March 12, 2017 by Bydo

[lukey0 27,543]

Seems supplies are Tanki's biggest debate, why don't we have certain servers for supply types? These servers only allow battles with its specific supply type.  

 

eg.

 

Server a - b No supplies.

Server c - d No supplies drops only.

Server e - f Smart cool downs. (The one we have now, not the experiment)

Server g - h Full supplies. (No cooldowns)

 

 

Tanki wouldn't need to make new servers, just adjust existing ones. Of course there would still be servers like we have today. Only 2-3 of each of the above would be made. 

 

Opinions? I think it would be better than ruining supplies for everyone. 

[BRO0088 1,724]

Seems supplies are Tanki's biggest debate, why don't we have certain servers for supply types? These servers only allow battles with its specific supply type.  

 

eg.

 

Server a - b No supplies.

Server c - d No supplies drops only.

Server e - f Smart cool downs. (The one we have now, not the experiment)

Server g - h Full supplies. (No cooldowns)

 

 

Tanki wouldn't need to make new servers, just adjust existing ones. Of course there would still be servers like we have today. Only 2-3 of each of the above would be made. 

 

Opinions? I think it would be better than ruining supplies for everyone. 

It would also reduce lags on specific servers like EN 3 

[r_carlo1234 118]

Seems supplies are Tanki's biggest debate, why don't we have certain servers for supply types? These servers only allow battles with its specific supply type.  

 

eg.

 

Server a - b No supplies.

Server c - d No supplies drops only.

Server e - f Smart cool downs. (The one we have now, not the experiment)

Server g - h Full supplies. (No cooldowns)

 

 

Tanki wouldn't need to make new servers, just adjust existing ones. Of course there would still be servers like we have today. Only 2-3 of each of the above would be made. 

 

Opinions? I think it would be better than ruining supplies for everyone. 

PRO Battles have those options. Those options per server will be confusing and disrupting.

 

But why people are not going to PRO Battles? Could be because PRO Battles Passes are a little expensive for non buyers. And maybe because they are a mess, you have to be careful and check all the details to find a battle you like. Too many options become too many battles you don't like. They should be simpler, cheaper and there should be options for casual players and those that don't play a lot, like a 30 Playing Hours PRO Pass for a third or at least half the price of the 30 Day PRO Pass.

 

...

 

Now reading Golfingray's reply makes me wonder: How to make positive changes without upsetting a lot of buyers? Will people still buy supplies if supplies are half as powerful? Or the game will be less enjoyable because of longer cooldowns?

 

I'm not liking the idea of supply usage controlled by time (cooldowns, smart cooldowns). Could be only me though, because I use supplies only when needed not to overpower the other team, I'm not afraid of dying. The thing is that sometimes when I need it the most I find myself unable to us them because I'm still in cooldown.

 

Maybe there should be 2 supply settings for all battles, PRO and regular, along with 2 filters.

 

Supply Setting 1 

 

Color Code: Yellow

 

Power Boost: Around 50% (like in my previous post)

 

Supply Setting 2

 

Color Code: Red

 

Power Boost: Around 100% (similar or close to what it is today)

 

Cooldowns should be short, 5 or 10 seconds, enough to prevent people from hitting all 5 buttons at once.

 

In other words: one setting for each group of people. What do you guys and gals think?

[Maf 32,300]

While this is a relevant topic, I'd like to point out a few great proposals for supplies, posted by players during the last year. They're not complete solutions on their own, but in my opinion they would definitely help solve the problems associated with the way supplies work at the moment. 

 

1. Repair kit rework.

Suggestion to make it so that the repair kit only becomes available when a player hasn't taken damage for some seconds. Currently, repair kits are considered to be the most powerful supply, so this would make them less of a frustration for everyone. It would mean that players won't be able to simply use a repair kit while taking heavy fire. They would have to get away and hide first and then repair. That way there would be fewer annoying situations where you shoot as some heavy hull for 30 seconds and then he just heals himself, or you almost kill an attacker with your flag, but he heals and gets away.

 

So the repair kit would have its own cooldown as usual, but instead of SCD, the timer would reset every time the player takes damage and the repair kit would become available once a player doesn't take damage for a few (2 or 3) seconds. It would require some extra effort to change the repair kit this way, but I think it's worth it.

 

2.Reduced effects of supplies

This is a suggestion for another supply experiment, where instead of changing cooldowns, the actual effect of supplies is reduced. This was suggested multiple times in this and the previous experiment topics, and it seems like the next logical step, since changing cooldown and SCD durations doesn't seem to be successful.

 

3. Rework supply usage

This one is my favourite. It's a very big change, so I have a feeling it would definitely affect the game a lot (although not sure if it would be positive, negative, or both). The idea is to only use supplies when they are actually used: Nitro - only when moving, Armour - only when taking damage, DD - only when shooting, repair - only when the tank's health goes below full (after activation). This definitely makes sense for Nitro and DA. Not sure about the last two (DD and RK), it seems like this change might make them OP. But then again, if a supply becomes OP, it can always be nerfed by other means like reducing power or increasing cooldown.

 

4. Remake speed boost

Not as good of an idea as those above, but I'll mention it anyway despite the obvious flaws. This is similar to #3, but only for Nitro. The proposal is to add a way to manually use the speed boost with a separate key. So you would get a new meter somewhere on the interface to indicate how much boost you have (like the reload bar for firebird) and when you press the key to boost, the meter goes down. Once it empties, the cooldown starts and a new Nitro supply is used. It could look like a mix between the Firebird and Hammer reload bars, where the meter goes down gradually while you have the activation key pressed, but it only starts reloading once it runs out completely.

 

 

Most of these require extra development effort because they're not just a case of simply changing some numbers around, but like I said in a previous post here, I don't think there's an easy way to solve the problem and a more complex solution is required.

[Dliver 436]

Amount of financial damage supplies do to the game have outweigh amount of financial benefit. Economics of this experiments is even more brutal than Hazel himself.

 

 

This will sound controversial, but why don't you go pro pass to play full supply no cooldown battles while leave normal games fair?

 

Because this is what will happen in the end. Normal battles will always have enforced rules with various restrictions to make sure everyone can play with everyone. If anyone does not agree with the rules of normal battles — go pro. Want no supplies at all? — go pro. Want to use all the supplies all the time? — go pro.

 

The game will not be able to persist if things stay as they are.

This may even sound more controversial... why not have 2 basic games types that players can choose from - one with supplies activated and one with-out (maybe with only drops) then both camps can be happy. Use pro passes to fine tune the games to a persons perfect liking. That does away with the so called financial harm supplies causes, it does away with the frustration that people have who don't want to use supplies have toward those who use supplies, and then the only argument that will be happening is who really has the most skill. This suggestion has been around for years but no one listens.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Dliver

[Dliver 436]

While this is a relevant topic, I'd like to point out a few great proposals for supplies, posted by players during the last year. They're not complete solutions on their own, but in my opinion they would definitely help solve the problems associated with the way supplies work at the moment. 

 

1. Repair kit rework.

Suggestion to make it so that the repair kit only becomes available when a player hasn't taken damage for some seconds. Currently, repair kits are considered to be the most powerful supply, so this would make them less of a frustration for everyone. It would mean that players won't be able to simply use a repair kit while taking heavy fire. They would have to get away and hide first and then repair. That way there would be fewer annoying situations where you shoot as some heavy hull for 30 seconds and then he just heals himself, or you almost kill an attacker with your flag, but he heals and gets away.

 

So the repair kit would have its own cooldown as usual, but instead of SCD, the timer would reset every time the player takes damage and the repair kit would become available once a player doesn't take damage for a few (2 or 3) seconds. It would require some extra effort to change the repair kit this way, but I think it's worth it.

Of your suggestions this is the one I like most and I think would do away with a lot of the frustrations with supplies.

 

I will openly confess that I like to use supplies a lot, but this is the one thing that irritates the most and that I myself have used ;). When pounding a guy till you know he's almost dead then seeing the healing icon come on, ARRRRGGGG!, is so frustrating.  So I vote for this solution. If you do nothing else than this, this will fix a majority of the problems with supplies and once again true skill can shine forth.

 

I would say a 5 to 10 second cool down after taking a hit would be adequate. That way a guy running with the flag would still have a chance if he's a good enough driver. It would also keep the game from slowing down too much because of people going away to hide so that they can use a health kit. This would also give non-supply users a better chance, because they know that no matter how good they are they're eventually going to see that blasted healing icon go off and so have to start all over on the guy. Yep this is a good solution.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Dliver

[misafeco 713]

Repair kit should be removed from stantard battles. It's the best solution. No more 1 man team in CTF games as you will most likely die while carrying the flag back home without any support from teammates.

Or at least make its cooldown longer. 1 RK in every 2 minutes sounds good.

[Bydo 20,127]

This will sound controversial, but why don't you go pro pass to play full supply no cooldown battles while leave normal games fair?

 

Because this is what will happen in the end. Normal battles will always have enforced rules with various restrictions to make sure everyone can play with everyone. If anyone does not agree with the rules of normal battles — go pro. Want no supplies at all? — go pro. Want to use all the supplies all the time? — go pro.

 

The game will not be able to persist if things stay as they are.

why have normal battles in the first place .. we have them now and you can see what is happening .. you have players with drugs and with out .. and you still have complaints / along with pro passes ..which as you can tell not many use them or we would not be having this chat SIr..

 

if your wanting to try and keep the system as it is.. then go back to before 2015 /Oct. and see how things worked out great back then.. we had drugs in battles and they even dropped faster.. I also have stated this mess is and has been tanki's fault .. for the plan and simple reason , if you removed drugs from missions, then players who still have drugs would have to use them up and for the garage and shop remove them completely .. sure we druggers will complain , but if this is how tanki wants to go drug free just like tanki x ..well you have a long hard road ahead of u.. and if and when you do remove drugs from the system ..well this is where another issue will come into  play ..due to some of the long time players like myself who have  well over 40k in mines ( on one account ) would need to get  pay back  for them .. cause i would have a long time with drugs when others who have only just began would be hurting more...

 

Now if your trying to sort out the mess for now , the start up with no drugs is not working cause of too many watch who and where they spawn and these players get taken out faster in battles.. for the battle when you're  in between drugs , it takes way to long, your stuck with nothing for a good 10-20 seconds but it feels like a whole minute.. I have tried my normal routen like i played on the last test and it still had issues.. today only done two battles and what ended up happening i ended up only using one drug at a time ( playing flip the drugs ) and still same issues .. so for now unless you remove all drugs from the system or leave it the way it was .. cause as I see it if we have drugs they will be used and those without drugs are the ones hurting..  So the bottom line is and has been .. keep drugs or remove them ?? this is my question to u... cause the way I see it is you are wanting to change the game and make it more Tanki X DRUG FREE......

Edited March 12, 2017 by Bydo

[Gambit 94]

A tanker should NOT be able to take a Repair Kit if his health bar is 95%+. It is so damn frustrating to be a medium hull with a sliver of health having to race a fully healthy (team mate but noob player) Wasp for a Repair Kit when it is obvious which of us two need it the most.

[a7x_Pedro48 13,999]

Make this experiment permanent for normal battles if you want. But don't mess pro battles.

Edited March 12, 2017 by a7x_Pedro48

[Apex_Predator 537]

Hi, Hazel i see that the experiment system have flaws as well, it only make druggers hide and wait for theire drugs to activate, so it does not address the real Issue, i have an Idea, why you focus on making a major cooldown between the most used drugs (DD & DA), make the cooldown 1 min and leave Repair kit, and mine free from any cooldown.

 

The way I see it, DD & DA are the real Issue, bcause they make the Tank 4 times powerful, you either focus on making them 50% less powerful than how they are and keep the old system like it is, or make major cooldown between them and remove any cooldown between repair and mines.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Apex_Predator