invalid Isida seriously must be rebalanced

[NamesAreForNoobs 324]

tbh this didn't prove to me that Isida is overpowered. It's not perfect, but you really only compared it to firebird and freeze up close. Firebird and freeze alike have alterations that give them their highest damage just short of their max range. Firebird's burn alteration can kill an Isida after a close up fight every time and Freeze's acid alteration gives Isida's damage a run for it's money. You didn't mention stable plasma twins, which is more often than not mounted on a hull that can survive over 5 seconds to ensure maximum twins potential. Five shot clip hammer makes anything else not overpowered so I won't argue using that. Isida's healing could use a slight nerf because I agree it is too effective with healing but for offence Isida is fine.

[Crimson_Tank 285]

Isida should be like hammer and the repair supply. It heals one person as the repair supply would leaving a chunk of it's ammo gone. As for fighting same thing except instead of healing killing. Just a thought though. 

[skills_from_valid 113]

Isida should be like hammer and the repair supply. It heals one person as the repair supply would leaving a chunk of it's ammo gone. As for fighting same thing except instead of healing killing. Just a thought though. 

So as soon as you start healing someone, you lose half your ammo? What if you want to heal 2 tanks?

[Fresh 2,390]

I have not used my M3 isida for a while now so I would like a re-buff.

[Crimson_Tank 285]

So as soon as you start healing someone, you lose half your ammo? What if you want to heal 2 tanks?

You misunderstand. The person you heal gets fully healed as they would when taking a repair supply. 

[skills_from_valid 113]

You misunderstand. The person you heal gets fully healed as they would when taking a repair supply. 

Absolutely not. This is RIDDLER_8 levels of ideas.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

How about if we cut damage and healing in half at max range but also make the energy consumption consistent with it?

 

Explanation:

 

Say you have M4 isida that deals max damage of 1000, but does only 500 at max range. To compensate it would have to take 10 whole seconds to deplete your energy bar at max range. If you heal 380 points at max range (half of 760) then it would take 20 seconds to deplete it entirely.

 

Probably not perfect, but just a thought.

[D.a.n.t.e 475]

How about if we cut damage and healing in half at max range but also make the energy consumption consistent with it?

 

Explanation:

 

Say you have M4 isida that deals max damage of 1000, but does only 500 at max range. To compensate it would have to take 10 whole seconds to deplete your energy bar at max range. If you heal 380 points at max range (half of 760) then it would take 20 seconds to deplete it entirely.

 

Probably not perfect, but just a thought.

No. The changing damaging and healing time will be confusing.

 

It will be even better if they match damage and healing and then both have the same energy consumption. And of course no variation in the ranges.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

No. The changing damaging and healing time will be confusing.

 

It will be even better if they match damage and healing and then both have the same energy consumption. And of course no variation in the ranges.

Maybe too confusing for some but they would get used to it, while others will think it's as simple as breathing.

[Aunty_Entity 245]

 

There's a really simple fix for that ... simply use a more stable hull, problem solved! I use Viking-Isida on my alt and I don't experience any of that. Little piece of advice for you, Dictator is really bad with Isida, don't use such a high hull, Viking and Hunter pair much better. :)

 

 

I have this problem with vik/isi  only takes someone to sneeze and you've got to chase around to keep it going.

 

Aunty's alt

[I-Hate-Druggers 192]

Isida is my ticket to getting friend requests, let me get good scores please.

[Nicola_M 1,563]

Had to google that one... :huh:    I take it you meant the German use, as opposed to the British? 

 

If British, might explain why you had some trouble...

Mullered is UK slang for getting one's arse well and truly kicked / wiped the floor with.

[Nicola_M 1,563]

 

2) With 10 seconds healing time, it can easily keep an ally's health fully in tact then finish off the enemy with just enough ammo. 

 

There's a really simple fix for that ... simply use a more stable hull, problem solved! I use Viking-Isida on my alt and I don't experience any of that. Little piece of advice for you, Dictator is really bad with Isida, don't use such a high hull, Viking and Hunter pair much better. :)

 

 

10 seconds is not nearly enough if you have to use 6-7 seconds to heal someone from almost dead, or to sustain them during an attack.

The remaining 3-4 seconds isn't enough to take anyone else on unless they're half dead already.

 

Re Viking, at 2nd Lt level, I can't get a Viking.

Agree re the Dictator - don't ask me how I know that. :)

Learning to love the Hornet M2....

[qofka 19]

Isida`s high damage was made up for removing self healing so it would unfair  to decrease its power. It is enough problem getting to long rand mid range turrets. When you are close to them, they  shoot at the corner of your tank and you lose your balance (mainly smoky and hammer who do  that) then they will kill you from a safe distance. The only chance we have is when we are too close to them and we try to take them out before they could anything. Firebird and freeze avoid damaging them by trying to circle you.

 

Every turret has unique feature which defers from the rest turrets. Freez has the ability to freez, firebird has burning effect, thunder has splash damage and  Isida had self healing power; it was removed and replaced by high damage. Lets say the damage is decreased and you had 1 vs1 using against the rest of turrets in separate games. Each turret will be able to make use of its unique feature and that will put isida in disadvantage because it cannot heal itself and nor cause great deal of damage

[skills_from_valid 113]

 it cannot heal itself and nor cause great deal of damage

You got one right at least.

 

Isida has no problem out-damaging firebird/freeze and can HEAL ALLIES. Easily one of the most useful abilities, just imagine a healing shaft or vulcan.

[marc.jp_44 20,837]

 

1. I mentioned before about Isidas damage that it's on an even keel with other short-rangers like Firebird+alt. And as I and many have said, Isida deals great damage, but it can only hit one at a time and has only 5 seconds to do so at short range. How many full hp enemies do you think Isida can waste in 5 seconds?...considering it might be under attack from someone out of its range too.
2. I said before that if you're caught off-guard at short range by Isida, Firebird or Freeze you're done for and that is how it should be. Sick of being wrecked by short-rangers at short range? Keep your guard up and don't get isolated. Then again, perhaps if you do get isolated one of the Isidas that you want to nerf might come to your rescue. ;)

3. In your opening post you wrote..”Slightly increase Isida's energy consumption:” in bright red text. Fair enough.

    

   Then, in the post I was quoting you wrote.......

   “Also, Isida's energy consumption must be reduced slightly, either while dealing damage or healing. Since it doesn't last very long when damaging, that can probably be left alone but Isida is most certainly too overpowered as it can heal for 10 seconds straight. That is absolutely ridiculous!”

    

   What you wrote there is what I'm talking about. You mention 10 seconds of healing is OP, therefore I'm assuming you want that 10secs reduced, no?

4. Where did I say that then?...I implied that Isida is currently incapable of healing 2x heavily damaged Mammy's that are taking damage, and what you suggest will make it even less capable.

5. Yet again...where did I say anything about keeping heavy teammates at full health?....I'm talking about healing 2 heavies that have taken a beating and are still under attack. Is Isida capable of healing both those heavies with enough hp to stop them being wrecked by the next attackers that might be immediately following up the attack that caused all the damage?.....especially if the Isida used some energy to stop the initial attack and the Isida can only heal one at a time. And safeguarded behind a meatshield? With so many splash damage turrets about?  

6. No drawbacks?....Apart from.....

 

 

• it can only damage one enemy at a time

• has worse range than all apart from 2 turret types

• is number one target for everyone

• 5 seconds of kill time in one charge....nothing special!!

• Is frankly garbage at targeting to heal teammates in certain circumstances. Particularly when under fire from impact attacks (Hammer, Twins etc), even at short range sometimes. Also on uneven terrain and even the slightest of lag. Aim is improved by its alteration at the expense of it's range. Imagine how bad this Isida alteration would be with a reduction in damage over distance.

• In DM mode it's average, unless drugged out of its eyeballs against enemies that drug less.

• Achieving certain missions with it is much harder work than with other turrets.

 

 

      7. LOL, basically, what you're saying there is that its laughable to disagree with you on this matter.

 

1) Imo it's unfair to compare Isida vs. Firebird +alt. Not every single Firebird has that alt, that's just an ideal scenario for a Firebird with alt. Also, due to your complaints, I dropped my argument that Isida's energy consumption for damaging should be increased. I still hold my argument that Isida's healing consumption should be increased.

2) Well, due to Isida dealing high damage in a short amount of time, you don't have any hope of dealing really any damage to them. At least with Firebird and Freeze, you have time and you can see that you're being attacked due to their visual effect. With Isida, you can't tell you're being damaged until you look at your HP bar.

3) Yes. Either healing or damaging consumption must be reduced.

4) Healing two M4 Mammoths in one tank is absurd. That is an incredible amount of HP in just one tank. If a Mammoth is under fire, they still have plenty of HP and you have plenty of time in between reload to keep healing them and leave them with ample health. 

5) Isida is more than capable of keeping those Mammoths with enough HP despite enemy barrage imo. Also, besides Magnum, no mid/long range turret has splash that is too large for Isida to still be far enough to heal allies without taking damage. Simply stand away from the Mammoths, problem solved. 

6) Several of your drawbacks mentioned are debatable, it is not a fact that Isida is the "biggest target on the battlefield," nor is it a fact that it is the hardest turret to use for completing "certain" missions and if you don't like a mission, change it. I use Isida on my alt and have no issues with finishing missions with it. Once again, don't play in such large maps with Isida in DM. 

7) Basically, yeah. You seem to be the only one here who hasn't acknowledged that Isida is OP in at least one aspect. 

 

I think we should just stop arguing because we're not going anywhere. 

 

1) No "Bruh" I'm not.  I just happen to disagree on what "true purpose" means. I say attack AND heal.  75/25... so... pretty much a medic ;)

I deleted sentences because you tend toward walls of text.  Keep it brief and no need to delete.

 

2) Wrong.  Spend close to 10 seconds healing you have either 0 seconds attack (no alteration) or 1.67 seconds attack (with alteration - and 1/2 damage). That is not even close to enough juice to "finish off the enemy".

 

3) "needs at least" one of those nerfs?  Again... I disagree.  It needs at most one of those nerfs... I haven't seen much evidence yet that indicates it needs any nerf.  Isida "trains" are one scenario.  You don't nerf a turret based on that.

1) Once again ... you've taken my words out of context. I clearly said that Isida is not "SOLELY a medic." I don't understand what's so hard for you to understand about that. Considering Isida's special is healing ... it's obvious that its intention in a battle is to heal (mind-blowing, right?). You can still leave the relevant sentences there.

 

2) 5 seconds of healing is a lot of HP being restored and the other 2.5 seconds of damage allows for at least a decent retaliation.

 

3) Once again, that comes down to opinion. I've provided 3 suggestions (none of you guys have rebutted all 3 of those with decent arguments) and I think that BlackWasp's idea could also work well with my proposals. Remember that one of my suggestions was a purely visual drawback, which doesn't affect any of Isida's values. 

 

How about if we cut damage and healing in half at max range but also make the energy consumption consistent with it?

I think that's probably going a bit too far tbh. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

1) Imo it's unfair to compare Isida vs. Firebird +alt. Not every single Firebird has that alt, that's just an ideal scenario for a Firebird with alt. Also, due to your complaints, I dropped my argument that Isida's energy consumption for damaging should be increased. I still hold my argument that Isida's healing consumption should be increased.

2) Well, due to Isida dealing high damage in a short amount of time, you don't have any hope of dealing really any damage to them. At least with Firebird and Freeze, you have time and you can see that you're being attacked due to their visual effect. With Isida, you can't tell you're being damaged until you look at your HP bar.

3) Yes. Either healing or damaging consumption must be reduced.

4) Healing two M4 Mammoths in one tank is absurd. That is an incredible amount of HP in just one tank. If a Mammoth is under fire, they still have plenty of HP and you have plenty of time in between reload to keep healing them and leave them with ample health. 

5) Isida is more than capable of keeping those Mammoths with enough HP despite enemy barrage imo. Also, besides Magnum, no mid/long range turret has splash that is too large for Isida to still be far enough to heal allies without taking damage. Simply stand away from the Mammoths, problem solved. 

6) Several of your drawbacks mentioned are debatable, it is not a fact that Isida is the "biggest target on the battlefield," nor is it a fact that it is the hardest turret to use for completing "certain" missions and if you don't like a mission, change it. I use Isida on my alt and have no issues with finishing missions with it. Once again, don't play in such large maps with Isida in DM. 

7) Basically, yeah. You seem to be the only one here who hasn't acknowledged that Isida is OP in at least one aspect. 

 

I think we should just stop arguing because we're not going anywhere. 

 

1) Once again ... you've taken my words out of context. I clearly said that Isida is not "SOLELY a medic." I don't understand what's so hard for you to understand about that. Considering Isida's special is healing ... it's obvious that its intention in a battle is to heal (mind-blowing, right?). You can still leave the relevant sentences there.

 

2) 5 seconds of healing is a lot of HP being restored and the other 2.5 seconds of damage allows for at least a decent retaliation.

 

3) Once again, that comes down to opinion. I've provided 3 suggestions (none of you guys have rebutted all 3 of those with decent arguments) and I think that BlackWasp's idea could also work well with my proposals. Remember that one of my suggestions was a purely visual drawback, which doesn't affect any of Isida's values. 

 

I think that's probably going a bit too far tbh. 

1) Above u just replied 75/25 healing/attack.  We disagree.

 

2) 2.5 seconds?  Do you play Isida often? At all?  No - 2.5 seconds attack is not enough.  5 seconds is cutting it close.

 

3) "None of us has re-butted" - in your opinion.  I don't have any huge issues with the visual option.

 

PS: Of course it's fair to reference the FireBird alt - many (most?) use it because it is OP.

Just like one would bring up Twins anti-splash - because everyone buys it as soon as they can

Same with Ricco range alteration. I bought that and have never un-equipped it. use it 100% of the time.

[RIDDLER_8 5,553]

Please do not complain about Isida. This turret is not overpowered at all. Isida now has exactly the right balance and that is due to the fact that self-healing has been removed.

 

This topic should be declined because it is not right for Isida to be nerfed or buffed. Isida is suppose to damage and heal tanks according to its parameters and upgrade level.

 

This suggestion is wrong and must not proceed.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Isida trains are literally immortal. Today I played an Island CTF battle. I was using M3 Thunder, M2 Viking, the rest of my team was using Titan M1, Twins M1 (with a few MUs) and Rico M2, Viking M2 (few MUs). The other team was Isida M2, Viking M2, Isida M2, Hornet M0 and Titan M0, Isida M0. We clearly had better equipment but we couldn't cap a flag. Not because of lack of strategy but because the enemies were essentially invincible and their high DPS made little work of us. So frustrating, we lost by 1 flag because it was impossible to kill them.

Island. A three-tank team map.

 

Any game designed with balancing decisions based on the most extreme scenarios will be trash.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Island. A three-tank team map.

 

Any game designed with balancing decisions based on the most extreme scenarios will be trash.

Thunder on Island?  Whoa - I missed that part.  Um... poor choice of turret for the map.

 

I think people are having trouble with these "Isida trains" because...

 

- the team they are playing on is noobish. Any combo might give them fits

- The team they are playing against is really, really good

- The team they are playing against is drugging much harder, and reaching OD much faster

- They have inferior equipment, while the isidas have better upgrades

- They are using the wrong turrets - smoky for example - on it's own would not do well

- They refuse to use supplies and/or OverDrive (yes - this actually happens!)

- The issues don't happen as often as they are claiming - it's a snipe hunt.

- They suck are not very good

- Isida trains, as one combo, are hard to stop

 

So, a turret should be nerfed based on one of 9 (so far) scenarios?

[RIDDLER_8 5,553]

Please Maf can you decline this topic.
 

I am an M4 Isida player and when I attack all types of enemies, I find out that M4 Isida is not overpowered at all. A few V-Logs ago, developers have mentioned that Isida is the strongest close range combat turret of its counterparts. The developers also said that they were not going to nerf Isida or any other turrets again, but perhaps do slight adjustments like changing the 5 seconds of damage time to 10 seconds.

 

Many times when I face players in team battles play with multiple Isidas healing each other in team battles (both on my team and, or on the enemy side) there is no overpowering at all. The reason for that is because in team battles there are now at least 1 or 2 Magnums firing at the Isida swarms and destroying them with 1 blast shot from Magnum.

 

When I attack enemy Isidas in any battle, either me, as an Isida player can kill another Isida or the enemy Isida attacking me can kill me. That means that we both get the similar amount of damage. Isida vs Isida attacking each other deals similar damage to both.

 

I want to clearly point out that since the self healing (vampirism) has been removed from Isida, Isida is no longer underpowered, or underpowered like it used to be. Isida has the correct balance between all the other turrets in Tanki Online. Isida players can be killed easily now in battles, even on battles with multiple Isidas on the same team.

 

Please stop crying out and complain of the forum that Isida is too powerful. You are wrong because Isida has the right number of healing and damage output parameters.

 

Players that use and wear protection modules against Isida are quite hard to destroy. I have witnessed how difficult it is sometimes to destroy a heavy hull which has a protection module against Isida. Even heavy hulls that use a double armor can resist being destroyed by an enemy Isida.

 

The rate of healing team mates in team battles using Isida is just perfect. In big battles where there are lots of shooting going on, Isida must be able to be effective enough to heal players on your team when attacking and receiving damage. I have seen many Vulcan players use continuous firing, so Vulcan heats up the hull and causes it to take quite a lot of self damage. Isida must keep it current strength when healing all team mates in team battles, and also be strong enough when attacking.

 

My suggestion here is to keep the current damage and healing parameters of M0, M1, M2, M3 and M4 Isida as it is right now, because Isida now has the perfect balanced parameters.

 

If Isida were to be nerfed again, it would become too weak to destroy enemies at close range and also too weak to heal team mates in team battles. If Isida is too slow at healing team mates in team battles, then your team mates would be killed by enemies due to the slow rate of healing.

 

Please understand that all of the parameters which Isida currently has now are perfectly balanced. There is absolutely no need to re-balance Isida or any other turret, because all the turrets are well balanced out between each other. I have been attacked by many enemy Isidas, and I do not find Isida too strong at all. Isida is perfectly balanced out with all the other turrets.

[RIDDLER_8 5,553]

I do not like the suggestion that Phenom has suggested on Isida. Phenom must clearly understand that Isida is not overpowered. Isida has the right amount of damage and healing parameter levels per modifications.

 

Please make Phenom understand that.

 

Maf must decline this suggestion.

[Viking4s 10,791]

my eyes, my eyes !!!!!

 

no seriously, live isida alone, no more twick on hull and turrets. Adapt and buy an Isida protection module. You're just too greedy to spend on Isida protection.

[skills_from_valid 113]

my eyes, my eyes !!!!!

 

no seriously, live isida alone, no more twick on hull and turrets. Adapt and buy an Isida protection module. You're just too greedy to spend on Isida protection.

"isida isnt op if you have a protection module" so now the only option is to waste a third of your module again a damn healer turret?

[Viking4s 10,791]

"isida isnt op if you have a protection module" so now the only option is to waste a third of your module again a blessed healer turret?

Like you're at war and you're losing the battle because the enemy has come up with a new weapon, you would prefer just to complain (and die) instead of adapting and turning the outcome of the war to your advantage? 

If it means buying a protection module then yes.

If it means developing better tactics then yes (increase co-operation between tankers).

Developing new or more skill with another weapon then yes.

But a bit of all of it would do also, depending on what you have (brain, tactical mind set and crystals).