invalid Isida seriously must be rebalanced

[splitterpoint 10,986]

 

 

Isida's Drawbacks

To keep this fair, I will bring up Isida's notable drawbacks. Isida currently suffers from an extremely poor vertical aim. This means that on uneven or bumpy terrain, Isida becomes practically useless. In saying that, this can easily be avoided by simply not choosing a map with bumpy terrain or with multiple levels. Isida also suffers when being knocked as locking onto a target becomes difficult. This can be helped by simply choosing to use a sturdy hull.

 

You're missing out an important set of other drawbacks that are worth to mention especially since you're talking about nerfing the damage and a damage decrease over time. Isida doesn't have any other effect and it can't fight multiple tanks. Isida's need to constantly adjust the turret in order to lock on and deal damage. I do agree with you that the damage output with this range are sort-of overpowered. However; the most stupid Isida's don't turn the turret and are an easy kill. The Isida's with a ghosting keyboard can't move the turret and hull at the same time so they're retively easy to kill aswell. And then there are the ÜBERISIDA'S who have developed a real feel for the damage cone and know when to stop pressing the spacebar on rough terrain. Those are overpowered yeah but so is every other turret in this case.

 

I currently find the lock-on mechanism itself overpowered rather than the range or damage output. The way you can switch between healing and damaging can simply be done with moving the turret from an enemy to an ally. I believe that's the thing what makes Isida so powerful. Maybe there should be some kind of cooldown between healing and damage.

 

I always favored the healing ability rather than using Isida as a weapon to get kills. But the Isida-trains you're talking about are indeed really annoying. I've read something about a decrease in healing between Isida's a few days ago somewhere in the forum, that was a nice suggestion in my opinion. I like your suggestion of the visual element. I think there could be done something really cool aswell for a possible cooldown between healing and damaging. I've no idea how that'll turn out though but directly implenting a cooldown of the damage doesn't seem like a good idea to me since Isida has this one beam and no other effect.

[I-Hate-Druggers 192]

I have isida m0 and it has trash autoaiming. Damage is food even though I don't heal myself anymore.

[Hate 5,582]

 

Honestly I still don't see a good reason to nerfe the weapon considering how many times they nerved it.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Maybe you should get a module with Isida protection. That should be your first recourse.

[dilsharox 2,395]

i only want the damage reduced 

[I3eg-For-Mercy 1,102]

Yeah it feels OP to use, I just did serve as a healer and I healed my teammate continuously while the enemy isida had DD and DA on and was attacking my mate  and somehow my mate destroyed the enemy ( my mate was using thunder-dictator).

[Maf 32,300]

Moved from Game Discussion

[wolverine848 13,097]

Before I begin, I'd like to just point out a few facts:

Firstly, I wasn't sure if I&S, P&S, Let's Discuss Isida or Game Discussion was the appropriate place for this topic but I ultimately settled for here.

Secondly, please do not merge this into another topic as this is a proposal for change whilst also being a discussing topic.Recently I've noticed that currently, Isida is really far too overpowered. Its current parameters make it unrivalled in terms of short term combat. I'd like to analyse most of its important parameters individually to explain why I feel that Isida is too overpowered.

 

 

 

Healing

At M0, M3 and M4, Isida can heal equally as well as Firebird and Freeze can simply damage. This is extremely unfair as Isida can replenish an ally to essentially take no damage from a single enemy due to the overwhelming healing rate.  Combined with Isida's extremely low energy consumption per second when healing, an Isida can last 10 whole seconds healing an ally. A Firebird can last only 5 seconds simply damaging, whilst Freeze can last around 6 seconds. Yes, I understand that Firebird and Freeze also have their own unique features, namely the burn and freeze abilities. Of course these abilities are very useful but an Isida can cancel out both burn and freeze effect when healing ana ally whilst also having a 5 second (half its ammo) advantage over Firebird and Isida. 

 

 

Damage

At every single modification, Isida deals significantly more damage than its short-ranged counterparts. Similarly to Firebird, Isida can only last a meagre 5 seconds whilst dealing damage. However, these 5 seconds are an absolute terror to enemies. When approaching a foe off guard, Isida can deal monstrous amounts of damage before the unsuspecting enemy can realise that they're being damaged, let alone react and counter. One of the other issues is that Isida deals a constant amount of damage, irrespective of distance. This means that even if you try to run away from Isida, unless you manage to get yourself out of range, you're not actually achieving anything. Isida will still deal a constant amount of damage to you. Going back to the point I made regarding the 5 seconds of damage, even with only 5 seconds, that is more than enough time to easily take down an enemy. Also keep in mind that this is not including supplies as too many uncontrollable variables come in to play if supplies are accounted for. In my opinion, I also feel that there are fewer people using Isida modules than Firebird and Freeze modules (this can of course be debated). 

 

 

Rotation Speed

At most modifications, Isida has a higher Rotation Speed and Rotation Speed Acceleration than its short-ranged counterparts. Whilst this is not necessarily a major factor, it's worth pointing it out. Rotation Speed doesn't necessarily come into play that often because Isida's cone angle is equal to that of Firebird and Freeze.

 

 

Range

I think I have already made my point regarding range; the constant damage over the reasonable range makes Isida far too overpowered and nearly impossible to outrun. If bringing splash turrets into the equation, charging an Isida and attacking it from nearby is not an option. 

 

 

Reload Time

In order to keep this as unbiased as possible, I will acknowledge the fact that Isida does indeed suffer from the longest Reload Time in comparison to its short-ranged counterparts. Firebird and Isida run out of charge at the same time (5 seconds of constant fire) and Firebird also has the advantage of afterburn, though Isida has the advantage of a significantly higher DPS. Against Freeze, Freeze can last slightly longer whilst having a slightly longer reload than that of Firebird though Freeze has the added advantage of the freeze effect, which can be utilised.

 

 

Isida's Drawbacks

To keep this fair, I will bring up Isida's notable drawbacks. Isida currently suffers from an extremely poor vertical aim. This means that on uneven or bumpy terrain, Isida becomes practically useless. In saying that, this can easily be avoided by simply not choosing a map with bumpy terrain or with multiple levels. Isida also suffers when being knocked as locking onto a target becomes difficult. This can be helped by simply choosing to use a sturdy hull.

 

 

My Proposals

One-sided rants aren't my thing, so I am going to propose a few changes to Isida, in order to properly balance it out. These are my proposals:

 

1) Make Isida's damage decrease over time: introducing a "range of min./max. damage/healing" can make Isida much more fair to play against whilst not making it useless. As long as these numbers are kept reasonable, this can be extremely helpful. If this cannot be done, simply reduce Isida's range reasonably.

 

2) Slightly increase Isida's energy consumption: this is the most crucial thing that needs to be done. An army of Isidas are basically invincible. When Isidas group together, they are able to replenish themselves to the extent that they are practically invincible. In my opinion, Isida cannot be a monster in terms of healing and damaging, as it means that an Isida can heal an ally and also kill incoming enemies whilst still having an ammo advantage. 

 

3) Introduce a new visual element to Isida: currently, Isida only has a simple beam which is neither impressive nor prominent. Introducing a bold visual/physical element to Isida could be useful to serve as a small drawback. Currently, every turret has some sort of knockback or spraying effect that makes it obvious that they are near, even Smoky has a spark effect when it lands a critical shot. Many tankers do not play with sounds enabled and a humble sound effect is simply not noticeable enough. If being attacked from behind, it becomes very difficult to notice an Isida until you look at your health bar. Perhaps introduce a fang-like visual effect where Isida "bites" and grips onto a tank when attacking?

 

 

 

Final Opinions:

Though price doesn't necessarily play a major role, it is worth noting that at no modification is Isida the most expensive short-ranged turret, making it readily accessible to nearly anyone. Isidas were designed to play the role of a healing assistant which can occasionally double up into a killer. This is no longer true as Isida is simply too powerful at healing and damaging. Currently, Isidas are absolutely destroying the game balance in matches, especially when they group up. The normal way to counter against tanks who horde are to use a splash turret but Isidas can simply heal themselves up before you can even reload. In my opinion, advice such as "just buy a protection module" or "just drug every time you see an Isida" or "leave the battle if there's an Isida annoying you" simply does not cut it, as every turret should be balanced and, theoretically, you shouldn't need to actually play with a protection module because one turret is simply too overpowered. 

- every turret can "destroy the game balance" when they "group" up. Called team-work.  coughMagnumcough.

- Isidas don't have area affect like firebird and freeze - so they need to have higher DPS. Other turrets like hammer and twins have better range

 

1) you meant to say Make Isida's damage decrease over distance?

 

2) You referring to just the healing energy consumption? Increasing the attack consumption so it lasts less than 5 seconds would be unacceptable.  Plus - as it stands now with just 5 seconds attack - if Isida attacks anyone it's healing useless for some time.

[Aunty_Entity 245]

I'd like to see the offensive beam become something like a lightning bolt.  I'm not that flash with isi, but it doesn't seem to wipe the floor with anything in particular for me, and the stealth attack is still my best option.   You'll get fried or frozen very quickly if you try and go toe to toe.  At present I'd suggest nerfs on isi to isi healing to slow down training of them, and perhaps slowing healing on other turrets a little.

 

Aunty

[D.a.n.t.e 475]

How did it occurred to me to check your profile to see if you have Isida protection or not?

 

Maybe you people see Isidas as servants that should only be in the base healing team mates when they approach them, and you don't want to see them as a real turret that can do attacks and defend itself, that when they do that and are effective, mostly because your not defending well and not using the proper protection, you claim it to be Over Powered.

 

My equipments are about M2.5 and my protections are for different turrets equally and those are about M2s, including Isida protection. During this sales I only had crystals for one Micro Upgrade, and I MUed the one with... Magnum.

 

Don't blame Isidas for your loss, blame the system, because if your team is losing only noobs will join your team and then it will be worse of course, no smart person joins a losing team unless they are very brave and are not afraid of losing.

 

Isida needs a little buff for attack and a small nerf to healing that's it.

[I3.R.0 1,700]

Copycat. :ph34r:

 

@Mr.Meowth is the only cat in tanki.

[wild001 786]

isida is powerful, but like firebird, it is just powerful at very short period.

 

after that, it is 10 seconds of waiting for recharging, almost double of railgun reloading time,

 

your argue about first case is not fair, one fire or freeze vs any 2 tanks will lose anyway, you should put 2 fire or freeze vs a tank and a isida for fair situtation

 

------------

 

unlike thunder and hammer, which is constantly OP without slow down or waiting period. they can kill multiple targets without a rest. and there is no module againt them at same time.

 

----------

 

twins is even more OP when vs isida twin, it can ram through the whole with module like Smk, Twin, Isida on drug.

 

since isida train will be busy healing each other, and run out of energy quickly and give no damge to twins during time of healing, and also 10 sec reload,

 

twins can ram out everything like 4 sec per isida.

 

------

 

of course, only true isida user knows how weak we are.

 

we rarely kill other because our energy can only kill 1 enemy per 10 second. so we choose to healing as support most time, behind a heavy hull with constant firing power like twins, rico, fire

 

---

 

if one gun is OP, all people will buy it, like twins, we see more twins than isida.

[marc.jp_44 20,837]

 

Many of your points seem somewhat shifty. One Firebird beating 3-4 Isidas? With Isida's DPS and range, that seems unlikely. Isida is mainly difficult to outrun due to its rather decent range for a short-ranged turret and constant damage (regardless of distance). 

 

 

I acknowledge the fact that you made raised some fair points here but the major drawback you talk about is that fact that Isida is unable to attack multiple enemies at a time. To be fair, that is quite a large drawback but is somewhat compensated by Isida's crazy DPS. The simple fact is that, right now, Isida is simply too overpowered. Even Isida lovers have to acknowledge the fact that Isida's features heavily outweigh their few drawbacks. Many people have clearly not understood my intentions here. I am not saying that everything that is too OP for Isida needs to go. I am simply suggesting three ideas that I feel can somewhat dampen Isida's OP-ness, whilst not nerfing it to the point that it is useless (like what happened after rebalance). 

 

Maybe you should get a module with Isida protection. That should be your first recourse.

If you read my post in its entirity I raised a point saying that in theory, you should not have to actually protect against one specific turret solely because it is "too OP." You should choose a protection module according to a battle scenario and your role (sniper, camper, attacker, etc.). 

 

- every turret can "destroy the game balance" when they "group" up. Called team-work.  coughMagnumcough.

- Isidas don't have area affect like firebird and freeze - so they need to have higher DPS. Other turrets like hammer and twins have better range

 

1) you meant to say Make Isida's damage decrease over distance?

 

2) You referring to just the healing energy consumption? Increasing the attack consumption so it lasts less than 5 seconds would be unacceptable.  Plus - as it stands now with just 5 seconds attack - if Isida attacks anyone it's healing useless for some time.

I agree that a group of Magnums are overpowered but that is evened out by their super long reload. Each shot matters for a Magnum and it most certainly has enough drawbacks. Currently, I feel that out of all the turrets, groups of Isidas are the absolute worst to deal with.

 

1) Yes, decrease over distance.

2) The attack consumption is fair but the constant DPS irrespective of distance isn't. 

 

 

I've already made my point about protection modules, no need to bring that point up again because it is invalid. To be completely fair, the role of an Isida was to be a Healer who therefore heals allies. Now Isida has become a crazy healer with an insane DPS that is simply too strong to deal with. 

 

of course, only true isida user knows how weak we are.

 

we rarely kill other because our energy can only kill 1 enemy per 10 second. so we choose to healing as support most time, behind a heavy hull with constant firing power like twins, rico, fire

I honestly have no issues with "true Isida users." I appreciate it when an Isida's main focus is to heal and support allies but Isida's purpose is being lost as with the assistance of supplies, it becomes easy for an Isida to become a menacing attacker. A "true Isida" who keeps healing allies as a primary focus is fine but now I feel that Isidas are focusing more on killing enemies as opposed to healing allies.

[D.a.n.t.e 475]

Here are my suggestions:

 

- Damage -10%

- Damage duration 6 seconds.

- Healing same as damage

- Healing duration 6 seconds.

- Reload 8 seconds. But could be 9 or 10 too.

- Delay to switch from attack mode to healing mode 1 second. Could be 2 seconds later depending how it functions.

- Increase the aim angle to 30 degrees. An alteration can have the 20 degrees with an increase in range. It is very hard to fight Twins, Ricos and Smokys with the 20 degrees. That would also help in Space and for tall turrets like Dictator, Hunter, Titan and Mammoth. Please don't use Twins, it is not funny.

- Healing turns tanks green and damaging turns tanks purple.

[defiant_777 2]

I have Isida m2 and i just LOVE it. However, it is not the most powerful turret ever, mainly because when fighting enemies it doesn't have the power to deal damage to more than one enemy tank. Also, even though its damage is pretty high, it doesn't have the special 'attacks' (freezing or burning), which pretty much makes it equal to other turrets. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

To be completely fair, the role of an Isida was to be a Healer who therefore heals allies. Now Isida has become a crazy healer with an insane DPS that is simply too strong to deal with. 

 

I honestly have no issues with "true Isida users." I appreciate it when an Isida's main focus is to heal and support allies but Isida's purpose is being lost as with the assistance of supplies, it becomes easy for an Isida to become a menacing attacker. A "true Isida" who keeps healing allies as a primary focus is fine but now I feel that Isidas are focusing more on killing enemies as opposed to healing allies.

That's your interpretation.

 

No one would buy/use a turret that was basically just a medic.  I own Isida (surprise!) but I would not buy a medic.  That's for role-playing.

 

This is an arcade game so all turrets need to be able to attack/defend themselves.  In overall scheme - killing tanks is main focus.

Half the battle-modes are dedicated to that, and even CP and CTF requires you to be able to kill a tank.  What's Isida going to do when it finds itself alone guarding a flag? Use harsh language?

[marc.jp_44 20,837]

Where did I say anything about one Firebird on it's own stopping an Isida train? ...surely you see how a multi-hit Firebird with alteration would drain the hp of a pack of Isida's? And Isida range is a moot point in this instance, the idea is to ambush them and inflict serious damage on them quickly. And like I said, any smart team would have more than just one Firebird defending against an Isida train. Any other defenders could inflict the hits to finish off the Isidas. If you don't defend smart as a team when necessary in this game, you lose. Whether it's against a train of attacker Isidas or just one clever, light, attack drugger doing laps of the map.

 

The point about Isida being difficult to outrun....firstly, this depends on hulls. Secondly, don't get in the position where you have to outrun it. All apart from 2 turrets have better range than Isida.

 

BTW, you have tried to tackle very few of the 10 points I've made and just dismissed them as “shifty”. They are valid arguments that need to be debunked if Isida is to be nerfed(again). If you're gonna post an idea to nerf someone's turret that they paid 100's of 1000's of crystals for, then be prepared to justify it.

My bad, I didn't read your post entirely. I was busy and had a really long essay due the next day. I misread your post as you saying that you finished off a horde of Isidas with just one Firebird. You have to understand, though, that alterations are one of those "uncontrollable variables" that doesn't necessarily come into play when talking about game balance. Obviously a Firebird with the alteration would be highly OP when taking out just about anything when in close range but without the alteration, the Isidas still have a pretty good chance.

 

You only spoke about half my point here. The other half was that there is no actual point of trying to outrun an Isida, as the constant damage (which does not decrease over time) drains HP at a constant rate. Once again, you can't simply say "don't get too close to an Isida" because that is completely invalid. What you're basically saying here is that in order to not die against an Isida, you simply have to be not too close to it (duhhh). I was talking about scenarios where an Isida catches you off guard and you're left with no hope.

 

I acknowledge that I did not necessarily answer each of them individually but I, too am preoccupied with real life things which, to be brutally honest, have a much higher priority than this game. Also, in all fairness, you did not tackle each and every one of my points either. 

 

That's your interpretation.

 

No one would buy/use a turret that was basically just a medic.  I own Isida (surprise!) but I would not buy a medic.  That's for role-playing.

 

This is an arcade game so all turrets need to be able to attack/defend themselves.  In overall scheme - killing tanks is main focus.

Half the battle-modes are dedicated to that, and even CP and CTF requires you to be able to kill a tank.  What's Isida going to do when it finds itself alone guarding a flag? Use harsh language?

Well, each turret has an ultimate purpose, which is complimented by its main feature(s). For example, a Magnum's purpose is to try to remain undercover and to mainly camp, there's no real point in attacking with Magnum. Similarly, Vulcan was built to serve as a camper who constantly chips enemies down, as the gyroscope makes it very difficult to attack. Of course, this can be argued but in my opinion, Isida's main purpose was to heal allies.

 

I don't remember me saying anywhere that Isida should be solely a medic? The "true" purpose of Isida was the keep allies' health in tact.

 

Once again, I never anywhere said that Isida should have all its damage removed or anything of the sort. I agree, the overall purpose is to kill tanks. Isida wasn't exactly made to be a menace in DM battles as its role was to be a healer. Over time, Isida was buffed to be an effective killer but now it's simply too overpowered. It's an OP healer and an OP killer ... something's not right there.

---

If you guys took the time to not only read my reasons as to why is Isida is too OP but to also read my proposals, they aren't (imo) unreasonable. Personally, I think Isida must have a decrease in damage over distance, practically every turret in the game has this drawback. Also, Isida's energy consumption must be reduced slightly, either while dealing damage or healing. Since it doesn't last very long when damaging, that can probably be left alone but Isida is most certainly too overpowered as it can heal for 10 seconds straight. That is absolutely ridiculous! The amount that it heals per second is also enormous, so this is simply nonsensical. An Isida can fully heal its meatshield and easily finish off the enemy, then heal their ally up again. Finally, the visual drawback can barely even be considered a nerf, Sorry but I don't see any of you guys actually rebutting any of my suggestions. I'd be most certainly interested to hear your opinions on my suggestions ... after all that was the point of the topic! 

[wolverine848 13,097]

I don't remember me saying anywhere that Isida should be solely a medic? The "true" purpose of Isida was the keep allies' health in tact.

 

An Isida can fully heal its meatshield and easily finish off the enemy, then heal their ally up again.

1) "The true purpose of keeping allies health intact" does sound like a medic to me.  I see it as 50/50 attacker/healer. Not sure where you place the ratio.

 

2) Not sure what you mean here... "and easily finish off the enemy, then heal..."  How many functions do you see it performing in how short a time?

It's healing - then attacking - then healing?  The 'juice' will run out much faster than that - especially if it does any attacking.

 

As for your suggestions... not sure any are warranted as I really don't see as many "trains" as you are implying. And they do get countered when they appear. That being said I'm not totally opposed to doing one of them - not multiple nerfs.  That could have more drastic effects than intended.

either decreased damage over distance OR...

increased energy consumption -  but only on healing.  The 5 second drain when attacking is already short. Would be ridiculous to make it even shorter.

[Nicola_M 1,563]

Rubbish.

I've just had about three hours of Isida in Deathmatch DM and I got absolutely MULLERED.  That was with every hull I've got - Wasp M1, Hornet M2, Dictator M2 and even Hunter M0.

With all of them I was a sitting duck when everyone else is using M3 or above.

 

The cone angle of Isida is too narrow and it breaks too easily.  One Rico shot and you're shunted to one side and Isida breaks off.

Unless you're quick, your 10 seconds of use is wasted.  Then when you turn to aim again, you've run out of juice.

 

Isida is not overpowered.  Everyone else on the battlefield is.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Rubbish.

I got absolutely MULLERED. 

Had to google that one... :huh:    I take it you meant the German use, as opposed to the British? 

 

If British, might explain why you had some trouble...

[Truthteller 4,204]

You are forgetting that isida can only target one at a time

[Sliced 819]

We all know Isida trains are a pain to deal with, since they are hard to kill.

 

My idea is when an Isida uses its beam on another teammate with Isida, it will rapidly refill their energy, rather than healing. But, if they are full then it will heal but at a 25% slower rate than other players who don't have Isida. Also, if you're using your Isida to heal a teammate or kill an enemy, instead of refilling your energy, it will just stop it from being consumed by 50%. This is so you dont recharge, then heal because you're fully charged.

 

Isida trains will still be a thing, though. Have a row to keep the biggest guy in the pack loaded, but he won't heal and his beam will still deplete but half as fast, so getting your teammate in and out alive will be easier, but as the bad side, none of the Isidas are able to heal themselves.

 

Also, with no way to tell how much energy has been used up, there's no way to time it for the guy at the front to stop firing, and for his buddies to heal him. That in itself is a hard task.

[D.a.n.t.e 475]

I think some of the packs people complain about could be coordinated Isida friends, maybe even clans, where one or more of those Isidas have the Support Nanobots alteration, that alteration is nasty. If one of a three Isidas pack has that alteration, that pack will be hard to kill. But it is not bad only in packs, also among other turrets when those turrets are well positioned and defend the super healer.

 

There is another thing that may be happening, Isidas friend other Isidas over other people. I have added many good Isidas to my friends list over time when playing any turret, and when I play Isida many want to add me, but when you're playing Isida and you see another good Isida, there will soon be a friends request. Unlucky for me many of my friends don't play anymore and my adding is slow because I only add the very good.

 

Another dynamic that could be causing this perception of isida by many players, is that smart players see Isida as an important turret to have in their Garage and they maintain it well upgraded, and the same players, if F2P, probably have only one or two other turrets and one or two hulls at the most in their Garage, so their equipment is well upgraded, so when they play they do well, be it with Isida or any turret. And buyers too...

 

The question is, how to balance Isida for buyers, über missionaries, averages, casuals, noobs and those that don't even have Isida protection?

[marc.jp_44 20,837]

1) "The true purpose of keeping allies health intact" does sound like a medic to me.  I see it as 50/50 attacker/healer. Not sure where you place the ratio.

 

2) Not sure what you mean here... "and easily finish off the enemy, then heal..."  How many functions do you see it performing in how short a time?

It's healing - then attacking - then healing?  The 'juice' will run out much faster than that - especially if it does any attacking.

 

As for your suggestions... not sure any are warranted as I really don't see as many "trains" as you are implying. And they do get countered when they appear. That being said I'm not totally opposed to doing one of them - not multiple nerfs.  That could have more drastic effects than intended.

either decreased damage over distance OR...

increased energy consumption -  but only on healing.  The 5 second drain when attacking is already short. Would be ridiculous to make it even shorter.

1) Bruh you're literally twisting my words to suit you. I clearly said "I don't remember me saying anywhere that Isida should be solely a medic? The "true" purpose of Isida was the keep allies' health in tact." You literally even deleted the sentence before that because it didn't suit your argument. Considering Isida's special ability is healing, I'd place it a 75/25 medic. 

 

2) With 10 seconds healing time, it can easily keep an ally's health fully in tact then finish off the enemy with just enough ammo. 

 

3) What I'm saying is that Isida currently needs at least one of those nerfs. It can't possibly have just about everything going for it. I agree that energy consumption for healing should be increased. 

 

Firstly, alterations are part of the game and should definitely be considered when discussing game balance. Firebird alteration in particular in this instance cos it's so damn effective in short distance encounters. Isida needs to be able to deal one-on-one with an altered Firebird...every time I use Isida against Firebird (or vice-versa) both end up destroyed. Firebird destroyed first but the burn effect then finishes off the Isida. This suggests these two turrets are balanced, at least against each other.

 

About 3 of the things u mentioned.........

U want Isida to have “A decrease in damage over distance..”

Totally unnecessary. Every other turret may have the drawback of damage inflicted decreasing over distance, but then practically every other turret has much longer range than Isida. And like I said before, Isida is number one target for everyone, therefore it needs to be able to defend itself against an enemy within its range. Frankly, if Isida's damage was decreased over distance like u suggest it wouldn't have any hope of defending itself. Usually, if someone spots a short-ranger just before being attacked by them, they back away from the short-ranger and shoot while doing so. Freeze can stop them doing this by slowing them down. Firebird has distance, damage and burn increasing alterations. With this change you suggest, Isida would just get annihilated by every long/mid-ranger if they were using the same speed hull as the Isida, cos Isida would not be able to do anywhere near enough damage to prevent a turret like Rico or Twins unloading loads of hits on them.

 

Also, what you say about an Isida “catches you off guard and you're left with no hope” Why not? Short distance encounters is when the Isida should have the advantage, if you think differently then I really don't get it. If you're caught off guard against any short-ranger then you're done for, simple as that. That's actually how it should be.

 

“Isida's energy consumption must be reduced..”

When I use Isida, the whole of its energy is used healing 2 heavily damaged heavy hull defenders, especially if those heavies are still taking damage. The max it can heal in one go at M4 level is 7600hp (less than 2x M4 Mammoths). If energy consumption was reduced to 9 seconds, instead of the usual 10, then it would seriously struggle to heal those 2 heavies in time. What use is it having a healer turret that is even more incapable of keeping a couple of under-fire heavy defenders alive?

 

“The amount it heals per second is enormous..”

Is it?, surely this depends on MU level? And is it so much more “enormous” than the damage that's being inflicted on the guy it's healing by the many high-damage turrets in Tanki. IMO, An Isida and a heavy defender should be able to see off any two attackers with ease. Do you think an Isida healing a heavy is guaranteed to see off an attacking firebird with alteration supported by a Magnum? From the experience of a Rio battle I had yesterday, No!....I could not heal quick enough and the splash damage from the Magnum meant that I was toast once the heavy defender was destroyed. There are quite a few other two tank combo's in this game that could have broken our defence. Which suggests Isida's heals per second is not OP....far from it.

Okay, sure. This could be avoided by circle strafing but obviously, it depends.

 

Isida is disadvantaged by not having range but even prebalance, its damage used to decrease over distance. Currently, though it may no longer have self-healing, it still has a much higher DPS which balances out offensively. Self-healing gave it a defensive balance (keeping health in tact) whereas the high DPS has increased it offensively (dealing max. damage in a short amount of time). 

 

I wasn't necessarily solely talking about dying. What I meant is that you can barely actually deal any damage to an Isida when caught off guard because a) if not looking at your HP bar, you can't even tell you're being attacked (from behind) and b) the DPS is so incredibly high that even if you do manage to turn around in time, you've got barely any time to properly retaliate.

 

Actually, I said that the energy consumption should be increased as opposed to decreased but that was just a typo on your part. You can't be for real ... healing two Mammoths? You can't seriously say that Isida should be able to heal two of the heaviest hulls in one go? Remember that Mammoth has the most HP in the game and you want an Isida to be able to heal both of them in just one tank? Also, why do they need to constantly be on full HP, that makes no sense mate. Mammoth has 4000hp, that's plenty of health to survive a barrage of enemy fire whilst still having enough health to wait at least a few seconds. In my opinion, Isida should be able to heal only 1.5 Mammoths on one tank, not 1.8 Mammoths!! If healing, an Isida should already be safeguarded behind a meatshield, thus alllowing for it to wait to recharge, without having to panic that it's losing HP. Remember this is only taking Mammoths into consideration ... not medium hulls. Imagine more popular medium/light hulls, an Isida can heal 3.33 Vikings in just one tank, in 10 seconds. That's absolutely ridiculous. There's no way that Isida should have so much recharge to heal that many tanks in such a short amount of time. 

 

Regardless of whether you managed to heal your teammate, you still would've died from the splash from the Magnum, what's your point? Those alterations are intentionally meant to make turrets overpowered, with a cost and drawback. With Isida, you get the full package with barely any drawbacks. 

 

The cone angle of Isida is too narrow and it breaks too easily.  One Rico shot and you're shunted to one side and Isida breaks off.

Unless you're quick, your 10 seconds of use is wasted.  Then when you turn to aim again, you've run out of juice.

 

Isida is not overpowered.  Everyone else on the battlefield is.

There's a really simple fix for that ... simply use a more stable hull, problem solved! I use Viking-Isida on my alt and I don't experience any of that. Little piece of advice for you, Dictator is really bad with Isida, don't use such a high hull, Viking and Hunter pair much better. :)

 

Sorry to burst your bubble mate but if "everyone else on the battlefield" is supposedly OP, that simply means that you're just not playing as well as them. If every tank in a battle is better than you, that doesn't make them overpowered, that just means you're doing something seriously wrong. 

 

You are forgetting that isida can only target one at a time

Okay but this is compensated heavily by the high DPS, allowing it to finish off an enemy and move to the next one quite quickly. 

 

The question is, how to balance Isida for buyers, über missionaries, averages, casuals, noobs and those that don't even have Isida protection?

Probably the best post I've seen in this topic so far. It is laughable to say that Isida is currently balanced right now. The "simple fix" for dealing with Isidas most certainly cannot just be "buy protection." I know a few buyers who use Isida and they are absolutely unstoppable whereas there are noob Isidas who can't turn their turrets who place last. There are also just those average players who get the odd kill here-and-there but there needs to be a happy medium found.

[wolverine848 13,097]

1) Bruh you're literally twisting my words to suit you. I clearly said "I don't remember me saying anywhere that Isida should be solely a medic? The "true" purpose of Isida was the keep allies' health in tact." You literally even deleted the sentence before that because it didn't suit your argument. Considering Isida's special ability is healing, I'd place it a 75/25 medic. 

 

2) With 10 seconds healing time, it can easily keep an ally's health fully in tact then finish off the enemy with just enough ammo. 

 

3) What I'm saying is that Isida currently needs at least one of those nerfs. It can't possibly have just about everything going for it. I agree that energy consumption for healing should be increased. 

1) No "Bruh" I'm not.  I just happen to disagree on what "true purpose" means. I say attack AND heal.  75/25... so... pretty much a medic ;)

I deleted sentences because you tend toward walls of text.  Keep it brief and no need to delete.

 

2) Wrong.  Spend close to 10 seconds healing you have either 0 seconds attack (no alteration) or 1.67 seconds attack (with alteration - and 1/2 damage). That is not even close to enough juice to "finish off the enemy".

 

3) "needs at least" one of those nerfs?  Again... I disagree.  It needs at most one of those nerfs... I haven't seen much evidence yet that indicates it needs any nerf.  Isida "trains" are one scenario.  You don't nerf a turret based on that.