Declined suggest to daily mission

[fei502 9]

Tanki has been implemented several updates, which lots players didn't like at all. Examples are remove the regular battle create button and daily mission has to be done in regular battle. The worst is the recent unpopular 48 hours mm test, totally remove options from players.

 

The purpose of these updates is to prevent players "abuse" the system, to get daily mission done too easy.

 

I would suggest to change the daily mission to earn XP or Crystal, not just pick some kit boxes. To earn XP or Crystal, one must fight in the game. That's exactly what Tanki wants players do.

 

Let the players choose whatever battle mode, regular or pro, whatever map, etc...to finish their daily mission. Give the freedom to players. Let them enjoy the game, not suffer to get the mission done.

 

 

Thanks!

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Declined

 

unfortunately this will not work, as one of the most often repeated argument of the developers was (like) "and then they go into a private battle with their friends and play fire wasp to get even their supermissions done fast".

[Pink_Legacy 269]

Declined

 

unfortunately this will not work, as one of the most often repeated argument of the developers was (like) "and then they go into a private battle with their friends and play fire wasp to get even their supermissions done fast".

But private battles will no longer give experience or crystals, so it shouldn't be a problem anymore.

[Maf 32,326]

But private battles will no longer give experience or crystals, so it shouldn't be a problem anymore.

Still, one can get a group of 3-5 friends and create an open battle on Arena or something with limited spaces and play Wasp+Fire format. They will get EXP since it's not a private battle and will be able to complete missions far too easily.

[Pink_Legacy 269]

Still, one can get a group of 3-5 friends and create an open battle on Arena or something with limited spaces and play Wasp+Fire format. They will get EXP since it's not a private battle and will be able to complete missions far too easily.

....which is much worse that getting into a normal battle, taking up a spot, and multing for a few minutes because you've got to collect boxes?

 

Honestly, I really fail to see the problem with Fire/Wasp. If some blokes want to spend their evening on an Island map holding space bar pressed, what's the matter? They get the same crystal/experience reward than if they fought in fun battles. They just get it faster. So what? They will be at a higher level competing on equal grounds with other high lever players.

 

I'd much rather let those who want to play Fire/Wasp play it, than have my battle full of mults and saboteurs because they've got to pick up boxes, capture flags, or finish first.

[Maf 32,326]

....which is much worse that getting into a normal battle, taking up a spot, and multing for a few minutes because you've got to collect boxes?

capture flags, or finish first.

That's a different issue that requires a different solution. Developers clearly said that they are not OK with players EXP-boosting to complete missions in PRO battles.

 

If some people genuinely enjoy holding down spacebar on Island, they can continue to do so in private battes. You don't need to be able to complete missions in order to enjoy the game.

 

They get the same crystal/experience reward than if they fought in fun battles. They just get it faster. So what? 

Well, for devs that's a major problem. It takes out the challenge and makes rewards too easy to obtain.

[Pink_Legacy 269]

That's a different issue that requires a different solution. Developers clearly said that they are not OK with players EXP-boosting to complete missions in PRO battles.

I don't think it's a different issue. It rather seems the consequences of the developers' solution to the problem. Also, the experience-boosting and all that was a lame excuse.

 

For the over-a-year that I played the game before the "Battle!" button, nobody cared about players creating battles suitable to finish their missions. You'd see a battle with two slots per team on Düsseldorf, and you'd know that somebody was there collecting boxes while someone else finished first. People did that, everyone knew it, and nobody cared.

 

But when developers decided that players should no longer be able to create and choose their own battles, and players by and large ignored the "Battle!" button and played pro battles, then all of a sudden it becomes a huge problem that must be dealt with an iron fist. Later on, of course, developers acknowledged that missions weren't coming back to pro-battles because they needed players to use the matchmaking system (which says a lot about the faith that they've got on their wonderful matchmaking system).

 

The fact that people now go to battles to mult and sabotage others in order to complete their missions is the natural consequence of that. The very least that developers could have done is to make a mission system that rewards actually fighting in battles.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

But private battles will no longer give experience or crystals, so it shouldn't be a problem anymore.

 

But it was requested in the idea to make it work again, and the only necessary precaution would be the mission type (xp- or crystal- based).

 

I've quoted a section of the original idea below, and highlighted the problematic parts

 

I would suggest to change the daily mission to earn XP or Crystal, not just pick some kit boxes. To earn XP or Crystal, one must fight in the game. That's exactly what Tanki wants players do.

 

Let the players choose whatever battle mode, regular or pro, whatever map, etc...to finish their daily mission. Give the freedom to players. Let them enjoy the game, not suffer to get the mission done.

regular or pro -> problem

whatever map -> Arena, Island, .. are way more "efficient" in order to harvest xp for missons as the current non-pro maps

[dilsharox 2,395]

this is the main why we cannot complete missions in pro battles 

[Pink_Legacy 269]

But it was requested in the idea to make it work again, and the only necessary precaution would be the mission type (xp- or crystal- based).

[...]

whatever map -> Arena, Island, .. are way more "efficient" in order to harvest xp for missons as the current non-pro maps

No, she requested that missions be allowed to be completed in pro battles again, not in private battles. It's slightly different. Also, if maps such Arena and Island are a problem, why have them to start with?

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

No, she requested that missions be allowed to be completed in pro battles again, not in private battles. It's slightly different. Also, if maps such Arena and Island are a problem, why have them to start with?

The original idea was declined for the parts that I high-lighted in the quote.

 

The original idea did say nothing about private battles. You brought private battles into the discussion, and I think it does not make much of a change.. the reasons for the decline are still valid.

 

Example: you have 5 friends online, you create a pro battle (public) for 5 players, all join, you are fine, as no other person can join and spoil your mission power run. So a key criteria that makes the idea "not work" is the ability to join _only_ people of same interest in one battle, and no one else. Therefore the private criteria makes it easier, but is not crucial for the abuse.

 

Regarding your sectence about the maps.. I am sorry, I think I do not get your point (or your sentence makes no sense.. but as I am not a native English speaker and very, very tired already, I think the issue is on my side :p). Could you please rephrase? Thanks!

[Pink_Legacy 269]

The original idea was declined for the parts that I high-lighted in the quote.

 

The original idea did say nothing about private battles. You brought private battles into the discussion, and I think it does not make much of a change.. the reasons for the decline are still valid.

No I didn't! Developers did. See?  :D 

 

. . . one of the most often repeated argument of the developers was (like) "and then they go into a private battle with their friends and play fire wasp to get even their supermissions done fast".

But I'm starting to think that maybe you meant pro battles all along.

 

Example: you have 5 friends online, you create a pro battle (public) for 5 players, all join, you are fine, as no other person can join and spoil your mission power run. So a key criteria that makes the idea "not work" is the ability to join _only_ people of same interest in one battle, and no one else. Therefore the private criteria makes it easier, but is not crucial for the abuse.

As I said previously, I can't see why this is an issue. People who do Fire/Wasp all evening on an Island map do not get a higher crystal/experience ratio. They get the exact same ratio. The only difference is that they get it faster. But that only affects them, as they will get to higher ranks with less experience. Equipment-wise, they'll have no advantage. I would be really grateful if somebody could enlighten me and explain why it is an issue.

 

 

Regarding your sectence about the maps.. I am sorry, I think I do not get your point (or your sentence makes no sense.. but as I am not a native English speaker and very, very tired already, I think the issue is on my side :P). Could you please rephrase? Thanks!

Yup, I'll try and elaborate a bit on that.

 

If the fact that players get more experience in maps such as Arena or Island is a problem, the solution is obviously not taking away the possibility of completing mission battles in those maps. Players get more experience points in them regardless of whether they are completing a mission or not. Therefore, if that is a problem (which I doubt), then the solution goes through either redesigning those maps, or getting rid of them. "You can't complete missions in those maps because you get more experience there" is simply a poor excuse.

 

 

I do understand that missions will not come back to pro battles. However, unless somebody prove me wrong, I hold that the only real reason is this, not the rubbish that Tanki sold us that players' completing missions in pro battles magically became a problem shortly after the "Battle!" button came.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Ah, I see.. well this clears things up :)

 

 

Warning.. long answer

 

Disclaimer:

the following just reflects my personal opinion, and may under no circuimstances taken as official statement from Tanki

 

 

 

 

Why do missions exist

 

 

• It's not about an additional income source for players, it's mainly to get players to play the game on a regular base. So that they will not forget about it, it will become a habbit, and > important > to have many players online during the week. So missions offer a bonus to the players in order to make them act as it's useful to the game.
  In the past this was done by daily gifts, but it ended up in having some players login for 2 weeks daily to collect their gifts and then play with full supplies for a few hours during a weekend. So the mission system did turn it to the better.

 

 

 

 

Problems with mission system as it was before the infamous "mission update":

 

 

• missions were an easy access to crystals, without playing the game
  • They claimed their mission rewards carefully, so that they could keep up their weekly chains. Play one day to solve 3 mission and then keep the chain going for 2 more days without any gameplay
  • This all leads to less pressure on small-term buyers to purchase crystals before a sale to have enough crystals in time (heavy buyers do not care for that anyways).
• mission harmed the gameplay
  • people used to come online to solve their mission only, and they tried to solve them as fast as possible. This does not bring a reasonable amount of players online during the week
  • In the worst case they also left battles as soon as their mission was done. This harms gameplay for all other players
  • clever players with patience had multiple accounts and did nothing but missions. They xp increased slow, while their crystal income was awesome. Those will harm gameplay with overpowered gear, while they did not pay money (support the game) in trade for this advantage
• Supermissions (which take time, and time is either precious or boring, so players tend to shorten it -> lure players into drugging ) could be bypassed easily..
  • ..in private battles (fFireWasp, Island, Arena, ..) without spending a single drug
  • ..or at least in pro battles (XP/BP Polygon CP, XP/BP Desert DM) without spending a single drug.
  • As the time consumption of supermission can be shortened by that way, players had even less motivation to play anything else (where they need to spend drugs) until they had their mission solved.
    (of course some players played normal battles, and stole kills by Rail on DP.. but the pressure to do so was actually low).

 

 

 

 

How did the mission update help to solve that

 

 

 

The mission update, as infamous as it was, truely solved many issues and made most other less worse.

Players now have to spend time in real battles, as a 1vs1 TDM to be first and collect some boxes can not be done anymore. As they want to keep their mission chain, they have to play more during the week (although it may feel like work.. which it actually is). It is harder to earn crystals by missions (crystals per time ratio) but still rewarding to do so (crystals per xp ratio). You can still claim your rewards over multiple days, but you have to invest more in advance. As you have to play more in battles where drugs are enables by default, you will spend more of them - and Tanki can sell more of them. As it takes longer to collect your 7 boxes in a battle, you could as well finish it anyways, once you have your boxes and only 3:40 are left on the clock to gain some battle fund as well. The strategy to harvest missions on multiple accounts was hit-and-sunk as the time consumption was raised per account. Supermissions are now a serious thing to lure drugs out of you, so you will be likely to buy some to stock up in the meanwhile. Supermissions do not suck players out of all other battles any more. The large amount of players in "mission optimised maps" like Island, Arena, and so on dropped a lot, and as so they have to play regular missions spending drugs and time again. All that helps the game mode and map diversity.

 

 

 

If you allow missions in pro battles players will fall back in optimizing it.. and all the gains are lost.

As you might noted, I mentioned drugs very often. Judge yourself ;)

 

 

Finally most important: Matchmaking

 

 

The only thing that I would emphesise even more then drugs, is the matchmaking system.

This was planned a long time ago. But actually sooo many players have no motivation at all to join matchmaking battles. A large portion of the audience plays xp/bp (guessing 10..15%?), quite some more favor drug free battles (above a certain rank about 40% of the players, which we could see in a week when the pro pass was free), and an other large portion likes to play their favorite maps (fits their game style and equipment and habbits) and to pick their battles (maximise win propability).

This leaves almost no players that would "love" matchmaking.. but a matchmaking system works only (only !!!) if a lot of players use it. Else you have too long waiting times and the players leave the queue and never come back.

 

 

The mission update was >the< most important motivation to get the people play matchmaking battles on a regular base.

 

 

 

 

From all of the above, missions in Pro Battles make no sense at the moment. There would be so many restrictions needed and a redesign of many mission types, and maybe also different rewards for solving them in Matchmaking vs ProBattles, to make this benefit the basic ideas and purpose of missions.

 

Again, I have not more access to their internal reasoning as you. So those are no official statements. But after a lot of thinking and talking to other, analytical players, these are the conclusions.

[Pink_Legacy 269]

I agree on pretty much everything that you said. It is just the optimistic view on the way the mission update solved things that I've got issues with.

 

People were not playing battles. Well, then the obvious solution is to get rid of stupid missions such as collecting boxes or capturing flags. The mission update has generated a lot of sabotage and multing problems. People join normal battles and avoid getting any experience while they pick up boxes or are busy keeping their teammates from capturing flags. This doesn't sort out the problem of having free players get too much income and isn't likely to go away with matchmaking.

 

It is true, however, that the update (and especially when matchmaking kicks in) that missions such as finish first and kill tanks are now more difficult to bypass. Not happy with people trying to flip the top scorer on their team, though.

 

I do understand why Tanki won't allow missions in pro battles, and I think it's perfectly reasonable. I only wish the official discourse was less "hey, we want to solve issues with mission abuse" (because the solution to that is to majorly overhaul the mission system, not to limit it to normal battles) and more "hey, we want you to actually play using the matchmaking system and use up more supplies." I would respect that.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

 I would respect that.

I fear there are not many like you around.

 

Funny thing is, that the concerns you have about the mission system (people stealing/blocking/asking for flags, people camping for boxes while doing nothing for the battle) were the same that I rose when the mission system came into life. I found them to happen.. but the higher I ranked the less I saw from them (in pro battles, back when the missions could still be done there).

 

You do have a point. A very much better set of missions could make the situation better. imho the "gain xp/gain crystals" missions do exactly that.

[Pink_Legacy 269]

I fear there are not many like you around.

Many people around can't seem to understand what online games are about.

 

Anyhow, thank you for the discussion. I feel it's been very enriching.