Completed Magnum and why it should be nerfed

[Akame 4,587]

I still don't see magnum users as a threat compared to railgun users, how many of you guys actually find magnums more dangerous?, railguns have that instant shot u cant dodge in long range, whereas in space/large maps, u have plenty of time to make a decent dodge if u see the projectile, especially in Lost Temple CTF, aiming with magnum is much harder since u have to make a guesstimate while with rail u can simply get anyone u see, Also, lets not forget that the majority of times, if u get nudged even the slightest bit, or have a slight degree of less or more power, u will hit a roof or go way off where u want it to go.

 

I still stand at the point where magnum doesn't threaten me, my current module I use in universal battles, Twins/Fire/Rail, twins cuz it's more OP with the new repair, and similar with fire with its OP alteration and Rail since it is heavily more popular and more dangerous. I feel as such.

 

Why don't people use screenshots from battle with you using magnum? See how easy  it is.

[Somehow 31]

Nerf the Magnum-Dmg 30-35% down and all would be happy.

[T-34-3m 360]

magnum is already weak enough in DM :mellow:

It isn't made for DM.

[Akame 4,587]

It isn't made for DM.

Well DM's are where I only pretty much use magnum rarely to pull a few quick DD one-shot kills while sacrificing myself a third of the time.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

Well DM's are where I only pretty much use magnum rarely to pull a few quick DD one-shot kills while sacrificing myself a third of the time.

ahahaha i started out using magnum as my main turret on the br/es servers because i wanted to kill all those jump hackers. now i have become infamous there for getting 1st in almost every dm with very high k/d

[Crip 4,735]

I still don't see magnum users as a threat compared to railgun users, how many of you guys actually find magnums more dangerous?

 

Massive splash damage.

 

railguns have that instant shot u cant dodge in long range, whereas in space/large maps, u have plenty of time to make a decent dodge if u see the projectile

 

Massive splash damage.

 

u will hit a roof or go way off where u want it to go.

 

Massive splash damage.

 

I still stand at the point where magnum doesn't threaten me, my current module I use in universal battles, Twins/Fire/Rail, twins cuz it's more OP with the new repair, and similar with fire with its OP alteration and Rail since it is heavily more popular and more dangerous. I feel as such.

 

Massive splash damage.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

 

I still don't see magnum users as a threat compared to railgun users, how many of you guys actually find magnums more dangerous?

 

Massive splash damage.

 

railguns have that instant shot u cant dodge in long range, whereas in space/large maps, u have plenty of time to make a decent dodge if u see the projectile

 

Massive splash damage.

 

u will hit a roof or go way off where u want it to go.

 

Massive splash damage.

 

I still stand at the point where magnum doesn't threaten me, my current module I use in universal battles, Twins/Fire/Rail, twins cuz it's more OP with the new repair, and similar with fire with its OP alteration and Rail since it is heavily more popular and more dangerous. I feel as such.

 

Massive splash damage.

 

and if you're at the edge of a map behind a tall building with a roof?

[Crip 4,735]

and if you're at the edge of a map behind a tall building with a roof?

You move.

 

Problem solved.

[tidesbyu 151]

I still don't see magnum users as a threat compared to railgun users, how many of you guys actually find magnums more dangerous?, railguns have that instant shot u cant dodge in long range, whereas in space/large maps, u have plenty of time to make a decent dodge if u see the projectile, especially in Lost Temple CTF, aiming with magnum is much harder since u have to make a guesstimate while with rail u can simply get anyone u see, Also, lets not forget that the majority of times, if u get nudged even the slightest bit, or have a slight degree of less or more power, u will hit a roof or go way off where u want it to go.

 

 

Railgun requires line of sight. Railgun does not have enormous splash damage. Railgun can't one shot you with DD. Magnum can hit you on practically any part of the map, even if you are behind cover. Railgun can't.

 

Exactly. Also, while you can see the projectile shot from magnum, you can see the glow from rail. while they're not the same, both have a warning before the actual damage occurs.

[Desty 275]

So it was "Free" ... to a select few.

 

"they did give out free protection modules for shaft/magnum/striker - so when there are 5 + magnums in opposite team, just use protection." is kind of misleading.

Every day, from 21:00 UTC on Wednesday 22nd March, till 20:59 UTC on Wednesday 29th March, we’ll be compiling a list of those players who have made a minimum of 250 kills, 500 kills, and 1000 kills during that day. For their skill and dedication in hitting these kill tiers, players will receive the following reward:

 

Kill Tier 1: 250 kills – 3 Gold Boxes*

Kill Tier 2: 500 kills – 5 Gold Boxes*

Kill Tier 3: 1000 kills – 10 Gold Boxes + the «Griffon T-F» Protection Module (resistance against Magnum, Shaft, Striker)

 

If you made 1k kills, you got the protection. Not selected few.

[r_Issimo2 1,495]

Magnum plus hackum

 

 

If they can do this, then they can easily shot at any angle without having to wait for the angle meter to go up, I think.

[T-34-3m 360]

Magnum plus hackum

 

 

If they can do this, then they can easily shot at any angle without having to wait for the angle meter to go up, I think.

Turrectile Dysfunction. Tragic.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Every day, from 21:00 UTC on Wednesday 22nd March, till 20:59 UTC on Wednesday 29th March, we’ll be compiling a list of those players who have made a minimum of 250 kills, 500 kills, and 1000 kills during that day. For their skill and dedication in hitting these kill tiers, players will receive the following reward:

 

Kill Tier 1: 250 kills – 3 Gold Boxes*

Kill Tier 2: 500 kills – 5 Gold Boxes*

Kill Tier 3: 1000 kills – 10 Gold Boxes + the «Griffon T-F» Protection Module (resistance against Magnum, Shaft, Striker)

 

If you made 1k kills, you got the protection. Not selected few.

Tthe proportion of players reaching that is relatively small so using that as a basis of getting protection is invalid.

[tidesbyu 151]

Turrectile Dysfunction. Tragic.

:lol:

[r_Issimo2 1,495]

Add Brest to the list, when there are some enemy Magnums on top of the building it is very difficult to go from one building to the other.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Well, Magnum is fundamentally an artillery turret.  It's going to be extra effective against defenders; if you are the base-sitting type then yes, you will be vulnerable.  That's generally how it works in the real world as well.

The counter to a Magnum play-style is fast-moving tanks that can actively seek out and destroy Magnums.  In other words, attackers such as a wasp-ricochet.

Surely the maps weren't designed for indirect-fire turrets, but that is not a factor of geography, but size.  With less room to maneuver and one flag per team defense and offense is quite localized, providing easy targets.

 

 

Here's the thing- most of the changes/nerfs proposed to nerf Magnum would deprive it of its fundamental nature.  Nerfing the splash damage?  Artillery in real life hits hard and obliterates things around it.  Nerf the splash radius? This is even worse.  The whole point of Magnum is to be able to lob that shell into their base and damage all those sneaky hidden defenders.  That's why it's generally hard to aim accurately- cutting back the splash radius would be too drastic and kill its uniqueness.

 

There's a better way to do this- simply increase the reload.  It would enable it to keep those nice satisfying hits but lessen the effect it has on the game altogether.  By increasing the reload by a factor of 33%, we make it less of an Tokyo firebomb and more of conventional artillery.  The strength of a bombardment lies on the sheer number of artillery carriages firing at a target.  Each individual one doesn't have an efficient fire rate.

 

One Magnum shouldn't be able to cripple a defense, but a couple should.  On the other hand, let the players have their lethal howitzer. ;)

[Best_of_thunder_2015 1,354]

No. In real life if you die you don't respawn, that doesn't mean the same should apply for games. Realism should never get in the way of game balance, especially in a completely unrealistic game like TO.

Imagine missing a target or goldboxes.. players would yell..

Anyways your point is correct.

 

actually i would complain regarding Magnum.. a perfect percentage and power is enough to camp the map. A perfect hide spot is enough to be king of match.. When gold drops the wasp + magnum just uses the parkour moves takes the gold.

When magnum is aiming at someone.. The current player should a alert or warning or any red spots.

[ismael_loteso 0]

Tanki is so lame they cant predict what they will do with game therefore they dont make maps for that.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

No. In real life if you die you don't respawn, that doesn't mean the same should apply for games. Realism should never get in the way of game balance, especially in a completely unrealistic game like TO.

That wasn't the point.

We know Magnum needs to be nerfed.  My suggestion was to nerf it in way that keeps the character of an artillery turret. Look to why a single artillery piece isn't very effective in real life for inspiration.  We're not fixing the actual numbers for realism, only the stat balance.

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

 

Well, Magnum is fundamentally an artillery turret.  It's going to be extra effective against defenders; if you are the base-sitting type then yes, you will be vulnerable.  That's generally how it works in the real world as well.

The counter to a Magnum play-style is fast-moving tanks that can actively seek out and destroy Magnums.  In other words, attackers such as a wasp-ricochet.

Surely the maps weren't designed for indirect-fire turrets, but that is not a factor of geography, but size.  With less room to maneuver and one flag per team defense and offense is quite localized, providing easy targets.

 

 

Here's the thing- most of the changes/nerfs proposed to nerf Magnum would deprive it of its fundamental nature.  Nerfing the splash damage?  Artillery in real life hits hard and obliterates things around it.  Nerf the splash radius? This is even worse.  The whole point of Magnum is to be able to lob that shell into their base and damage all those sneaky hidden defenders.  That's why it's generally hard to aim accurately- cutting back the splash radius would be too drastic and kill its uniqueness.

 

There's a better way to do this- simply increase the reload.  It would enable it to keep those nice satisfying hits but lessen the effect it has on the game altogether.  By increasing the reload by a factor of 33%, we make it less of an Tokyo firebomb and more of conventional artillery.  The strength of a bombardment lies on the sheer number of artillery carriages firing at a target.  Each individual one doesn't have an efficient fire rate.

 

One Magnum shouldn't be able to cripple a defense, but a couple should.  On the other hand, let the players have their lethal howitzer. ;)

 

 

If you want to use "real-world" concepts (in a game with a Freeze-tank) then consider there's no air support. THAT would be used to take care of artillery hiding behind defenses. Plus - to use artillery effectively you need to know where enemy is camped. In this game there's a camera that bypasses the need to send scouts.

 

Magnum not only is great at long-range indirect fire, it is also effective at direct fire.  Your wasp-ricco will get destroyed with one hit as it tries to get a firing solution.  Additionally artillery with area effect (Splash) is high explosive.  You want area effect you need HE.  That ammunition though should not be as effective on armored vehicles.

 

So a few tweaks to consider - a variation of 1 or 2 or all 3 in different proportions...

1) Longer re-load as you suggest

2) Lower the direct hit damage and remove the connection to splash - keep splash damage as is

3) make it less useful in direct fire - don't let it fire below a 5-degree angle (or whatever angle prevents it from hitting a tank closer than 20 m)

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

If you want to use "real-world" concepts (in a game with a Freeze-tank) then consider there's no air support. THAT would be used to take care of artillery hiding behind defenses. Plus - to use artillery effectively you need to know where enemy is camped. In this game there's a camera that bypasses the need to send scouts.

 

Magnum not only is great at long-range indirect fire, it is also effective at direct fire.  Your wasp-ricco will get destroyed with one hit as it tries to get a firing solution.  Additionally artillery with area effect (Splash) is high explosive.  You want area effect you need HE.  That ammunition though should not be as effective on armored vehicles.

 

So a few tweaks to consider - a variation of 1 or 2 or all 3 in different proportions...

1) Longer re-load as you suggest

2) Lower the direct hit damage and remove the connection to splash - keep splash damage as is

3) make it less useful in direct fire - don't let it fire below a 5-degree angle (or whatever angle prevents it from hitting a tank closer than 20 m)

1. Lets consider air superiority equal- no advantage for either side here.

2. Camera? Can't really be helped.  All turrets can take advantage of this feature.  I use it myself with Freeze to fight railguns.

3. Maybe.  But consider artillery can't function well at close range.  Suggestions:  Slow down the movement of the turret.  Make it very slow to aim, so if you're driving a wasp and catch a Magnum lobbing shells to the other side, it can't react very fast.  The Magnum player will not be able to "bring down" his turret in time.  I don't know if this is viable but we could also double the self-damage it tanks, reflecting the general lack of armor for any artillery piece.

4.  Not exactly.  The large-caliber HE shells that artillery fires will annihilate a tank on a direct hit from above.  Tanks are actually designed to deflect fire from an equal level of height.

[Akame 4,587]

How many have used Magnum in halloween map and even hit top 3? I've seen railgun users make it in top 3, not 1st, a twins/rico usually has 1st...

 

Still no game pics with people using magnum to show how 'OP' it is in comparison to railgun...if some evidence is supplied rather than theory, i'd maybe want to believe that magnum needs more of a nerf than railgun, but how this debate stands, i see them as equals but railgun more popular as usual.

 

In my latest couple battles, I maybe saw 3/4 magnums only? Logic would say that people would use a strong turret in battles, i've seen way more rails then magnums in the past few days too.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

How many have used Magnum in halloween map and even hit top 3? I've seen railgun users make it in top 3, not 1st, a twins/rico usually has 1st...

 

Still no game pics with people using magnum to show how 'OP' it is in comparison to railgun...if some evidence is supplied rather than theory, i'd maybe want to believe that magnum needs more of a nerf than railgun, but how this debate stands, i see them as equals but railgun more popular as usual.

 

In my latest couple battles, I maybe saw 3/4 magnums only? Logic would say that people would use a strong turret in battles, i've seen way more rails then magnums in the past few days too.

i managed to secretly play 4 battles at where i take classes yesterday. i played them on my spanish account with magnum and guess what, i finished 1st in all 4 battles.

 

okay, it was during the 10x gold and i took advantage of every single gold to get kills, maybe it won't be so easy now, but yes i finished 1st in 100% of the battles i played with magnum, couldn't take any screenshots tho, it wasn't my computer.

 

then again, i already finish first in almost every DM i play over there

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

How many have used Magnum in halloween map and even hit top 3? I've seen railgun users make it in top 3, not 1st, a twins/rico usually has 1st...

Still no game pics with people using magnum to show how 'OP' it is in comparison to railgun...if some evidence is supplied rather than theory, i'd maybe want to believe that magnum needs more of a nerf than railgun, but how this debate stands, i see them as equals but railgun more popular as usual.

In my latest couple battles, I maybe saw 3/4 magnums only? Logic would say that people would use a strong turret in battles, i've seen way more rails then magnums in the past few days too.

I would agree that Magnum is not as OP as some think it is.  It should be tweaked rather than reaped. But consider:

 

There are two measures of how overpowered a turret is.  One is found in the "hard stats"- how many people use it and get a good k/d, good place, good score, total damage dealt, etc.  Sure, a Magnum player may find it the hardest turret to use and get in first.  You may get less kills and more deaths and less score than that Shaft over there.

 

But there are also the "soft" stats.  How does it affect a battle?  A Magnum has a disproportionate effect on the battle.  While the actual turret isn't doing much, the effect of a regular splash damage in your base, which you can't counter, looms large in the movement and progression of the battle.  And it is this effect on the battle, the forcing players to change their whole strategy, that people complain about.    A Magnum, by simply firing, forces players to spend an over-large period of time trying to dodge and counter it, more than is normally due to one player.  

[wolverine848 13,097]

1. Lets consider air superiority equal- no advantage for either side here.

2. Camera? Can't really be helped.  All turrets can take advantage of this feature.  I use it myself with Freeze to fight railguns.

3. Maybe.  But consider artillery can't function well at close range.  Suggestions:  Slow down the movement of the turret.  Make it very slow to aim, so if you're driving a wasp and catch a Magnum lobbing shells to the other side, it can't react very fast.  The Magnum player will not be able to "bring down" his turret in time.  I don't know if this is viable but we could also double the self-damage it tanks, reflecting the general lack of armor for any artillery piece.

4.  Not exactly.  The large-caliber HE shells that artillery fires will annihilate a tank on a direct hit from above.  Tanks are actually designed to deflect fire from an equal level of height.

1) Air to air would cancel. Now decide what you want your bombers to target. I'm thinking Magnum...

2) Only a Magnum can use the camera to advantage when it can't see it's target.  How does it help shaft if target is not in LOS?

3) You have a lot of IFs here.

4) The magnum seems to do same damage to front of tank as it does to top of tank. It has the best of both worlds.