Declined better roof hitboxes

[ismael_loteso 0]

Roofs now

Roofs after

So what do you think?

Roofs arent square.

[Maf 32,333]

Declined

 

It's a valid point, but developers said that fixing it is not worth the effort. Tanks aren't meant to be on top of roofs anyway, while occasions when shots are blocked by invisible roof corners are not so problematic and don't require changes.

[EgYpTiAn.SOLDiER 25]

Declined

 

It's a valid point, but developers said that fixing it is not worth the effort. Tanks aren't meant to be on top of roofs anyway, while occasions when shots are blocked by invisible roof corners are not so problematic and don't require changes.

Tanks aren't meant to be on top of roofs anyway, 

Then why implement that update in TX 

[Maf 32,333]

Tanks aren't meant to be on top of roofs anyway, 

Then why implement that update in TX 

Because TX is a more advanced game with less technical limitations, so if they can make more detailed props there, then there's no reason to keep this flaw there. I don't know the exact details, but Tanki Online has to have these weird roof hitboxes because making them tilted (or any non-cuboid shape) will probably be complicated and/or will affect the performance of the game.

[ismael_loteso 0]

Because TX is a more advanced game with less technical limitations, so if they can make more detailed props there, then there's no reason to keep this flaw there. I don't know the exact details, but Tanki Online has to have these weird roof hitboxes because making them tilted (or any non-cuboid shape) will probably be complicated and/or will affect the performance of the game.

Dude... Hazel told.. When there was no magnum. And no. Hitboxes dont make stuff more complicated. Look at the original post of this idea and.. people defeated your points pretty easy.

Tanks arent meant to be on roofs anyways.. Havent u seen all those parkour clans and competitions? Parkour survival stated that players MUST be on roofs and idk if u know anything about gaming, but i clearly know that testers are meant to break the game as much as they can and report it to devs and if not even a single tester got on house roofs to report that they are broken, they are bad testers And how does slopes work without decreasing performance? Just use the same method they used on slopes. Where is problem?

The reason why i think u declined is because you dont want this game to become better and hazel told you that last year.

[Maf 32,333]

Dude... Hazel told.. When there was no magnum. And no. Hitboxes dont make stuff more complicated. Look at the original post of this idea and.. people defeated your points pretty easy.

Tanks arent meant to be on roofs anyways.. Havent u seen all those parkour clans and competitions? Parkour survival stated that players MUST be on roofs and idk if u know anything about gaming, but i clearly know that testers are meant to break the game as much as they can and report it to devs and if not even a single tester got on house roofs to report that they are broken, they are bad testers And how does slopes work without decreasing performance? Just use the same method they used on slopes. Where is problem?

The reason why i think u declined is because you dont want this game to become better and hazel told you that last year.

Notice how in my post I said that this is "a valid point"? What I mean is that I completely agree with this idea. Yes, I find it weird that you float in the air when you parkour onto a building and stay on its edge. And yes, I've been mildly annoyed many times when my shot didn't hit the target because of an invisible hitbox. But like I said, if the lead game designer says that they will not change the hitboxes, then there's no point approving the idea.

 

Anyway, the point of the ideas section is to bring your ideas to developers to consider, so in that sense the topic has served its purpose. The idea has been discussed with them and they are aware of this issue.

[Lankbouv 6,347]

Notice how in my post I said that this is "a valid point"? What I mean is that I completely agree with this idea. Yes, I find it weird that you float in the air when you parkour onto a building and stay on its edge. And yes, I've been mildly annoyed many times when my shot didn't hit the target because of an invisible hitbox. But like I said, if the lead game designer says that they will not change the hitboxes, then there's no point approving the idea.

 

Anyway, the point of the ideas section is to bring your ideas to developers to consider, so in that sense the topic has served its purpose. The idea has been discussed with them and they are aware of this issue.

You write "declined", are you a developer?  Do you take each suggestion to a developer?

 

On this topic, the MOP contest basically is an endorsement of being on roofs, hence your argument is invalid MAf.

[Maf 32,333]

You write "declined", are you a developer?  Do you take each suggestion to a developer?

 

On this topic, the MOP contest basically is an endorsement of being on roofs, hence your argument is invalid MAf.

In case of this particular idea, yes, I got a comment directly from Hazel Rah saying that they do not consider this to be a serious issue and will not be fixing it.

 

And this thing doesn't stop players from doing parkour, so the issue isn't serious.

[Lankbouv 6,347]

"DO you take each suggestion to a developer" - that was the question, I'm aware you did for this one.

 

 

And this thing doesn't stop players from doing parkour, so the issue isn't serious.

It makes Parkour in TO like unprofessional, landing on thin air.

[Maf 32,333]

"DO you take each suggestion to a developer" - that was the question, I'm aware you did for this one.

No, I don't. I'm experienced enough to decide whether or not something can be done. If I'm not sure about an idea, I consult with other helpers, and if I'm still not sure then, I take it to the devs. Even if I decline an idea that could be valid, it's still possible for the players to explain to me where I went wrong and if you give a good reason, I will change the idea's status.

 

As you can probably guess, I can't discuss every single idea with devs, so this is the best system we can have. A lot (if not most) other communities of similar size use the same system for user-developer relations. If not this, then we'd go back to what we had in 2014, where ideas had no order and it was close to impossible to find relevant ideas amongst a pile of rubbish topics.

[Lankbouv 6,347]

I think it's a good system, I just think you should be careful not to say you take everything to the devs, which you implied.  Keep up the good work.

[ismael_loteso 0]

Anyone told hazel about points made in my topic? Hazel probably isnt even playing the game or doing parkour, so he doesnt know how it feels or noone has informed him and he just thinks, but whatever he thinks, it isnt a fact. He may be thinking earth is cubic 1000x1000x1000 km. Is that a fact because he told you that?

[Gubitnik 401]

pipes are extra detailed and houses are  pure boxes  :blink:  :blink:  :blink:  :blink:  :blink:  :blink:  :blink:  :blink:  :blink:

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

Anyone told hazel about points made in my topic? Hazel probably isnt even playing the game or doing parkour, so he doesnt know how it feels or noone has informed him and he just thinks, but whatever he thinks, it isnt a fact. He may be thinking earth is cubic 1000x1000x1000 km. Is that a fact because he told you that?

You made 0 points in this topic. Did you know that there have been several topics similar to your before this, ones that gained much more attention than yours which were rejected by the developers? He's seen this idea before. And you may not like what he thinks, but in the end he makes the decisions and not you.

[ismael_loteso 0]

You made 0 points in this topic. Did you know that there have been several topics similar to your before this, ones that gained much more attention than yours which were rejected by the developers? He's seen this idea before. And you may not like what he thinks, but in the end he makes the decisions and not you.

I quoted maf and im 90% sure who am i and so he knows about this idea. Original idea was moved to archieve. But if u like, i will copy/paste things from the original topic.

[ismael_loteso 0]

Posts are taken from this topic- http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=334628&p=5746392 and 15 people liked that idea onision.

 

This response got 20 likes

 

 

Posted 05 Sep 2016 - 19:02

Mafioso, on 05 Sept 2016 - 17:39, said:

Declined

 

Tanks aren't meant to be on the roofs anyway, so having this feature will have no benefit for battles. Parkour is OK even with this visual glitch, therefore the change isn't necessary. The only thing it will do is cause maps to load slower and possibly cause more lag because the building's hitbox will be more complicated and will require more complex processing in-game. This will probably be fixed in TX (if it isn't already).

How does madness loads in fast with all those complicated hitboxes?

 

And here is example what i expeience A LOT

 

 

Posted by GoldRock

 

 

Posted 05 Sep 2016 - 19:50

 

DageLV, on 05 Sept 2016 - 19:02, said:

 

How does madness loads in fast with all those complicated hitboxes?

 

 

 

And here is example what i expeience A LOT

Spoiler

 

Hm, this guy actually makes a strong response with a couple good points. If hitboxes weren't so disproportionate to the actual prop, it would likely improve gameplay since anyone who's played XP/BP regularly would have experienced obtrusive hitboxes on more than one occasion. That valid point makes this part of the response misguided...

 

 

Mafioso, on 05 Sept 2016 - 17:39, said:

 

Declined

 

 

Tanks aren't meant to be on the roofs anyway, so having this feature will have no benefit for battles.

 

...and then Dage also makes a fair point in refuting what you say here:

 

 

Mafioso, on 05 Sept 2016 - 17:39, said:

 

The only thing it will do is cause maps to load slower and possibly cause more lag because the building's hitbox will be more complicated and will require more complex processing in-game.

 

It would seem many maps with complicated hitboxes don't have severely different loading times or lag based on this factor, and remain perfectly playable despite their complexity.

 

I would also doubt how much changing say, a dozen hitboxes in a large map to make them more complex would really affect the in-game processing when the map has hundreds of other hitboxes to load already?

 

And finally...

 

 

 

Mafioso, on 05 Sept 2016 - 17:39, said:

 

This will probably be fixed in TX (if it isn't already).

 

Surely this isn't actually a reason for rejecting an idea for Tanki Online? After all, they're two separate games. If an improvement can be made to Tanki, I question how "TX will have this improvement" is a valid solution to the problem, for the improvement is desired in Tanki Online.

 

 

 

Heck, to address the only part of the explanation offered for Declining this idea that I haven't yet touched ("Parkour is OK even with this visual glitch, therefore the change isn't necessary"): it actually does make parkour more annoying for those who aren't 'parkour pros', as an unnatural and obstructive feature for parkour that one must get used to.

 

In short, I think this player has a valid point when raising an example of the general problem of very inaccurate hitboxes, and that there's definite merits to 'fixing' these hitboxes for TO's gameplay which haven't been properly addressed here. It's not a huge deal, but this fix would certainly improve both gameplay experience and the quality of the battle environment.

 

 

 

P.S. And I wouldn't normally comment, but I personally think this idea needs reconsidering or rejecting on a much stronger basis than the one offered.

 

 

 

 

Post made by Viking4s

 

 

Posted 06 Sep 2016 - 09:08

 

Mafioso, on 05 Sept 2016 - 17:39, said:

 

(edit) Under review

 

[gmpl] [mps] [improv]

 

Tanks aren't meant to be on the roofs anyway, so having this feature will have no benefit for battles. Parkour is OK even with this visual glitch, therefore the change isn't necessary. The only thing it will do is cause maps to load slower and possibly cause more lag because the building's hitbox will be more complicated and will require more complex processing in-game. This will probably be fixed in TX (if it isn't already).

 

Great spot DageLV, one of your idea is finally going to pay off.

 

 

 

If TO goes with the Arty (the Artillery turret) they will have to improve the hit box of the roofs of building otherwise the shell gonna explode on many roof (for no reason) and considerably reduce the efficiency and field of operation of the Arty turret.

 

 

 

Posted by BlackWasp666

 

 

How should better hitboxes of a roof increase your lag? Could you explain that pls?

 

I doubt that their algorithm checks each shot against each and every triangle on the map, but only vs those triangles in the way.

 

 

 

there is also not a serious point with higher loading time -> what exactly are we talking about here?

 

We talk about -> lets say -> 15 roofs per map (in average), which now consist of 1 set of data (roof alone) while whith better hitboxes you would need 4 sets of data (2 sleeves + 2 sides). Each set has the size of less then 70 byte. There is no reason to be afraid of loading 3600 additional bytes over your network connection (3 IP packets maybe?).

 

 

 

On the other hand we have the client now. So over the time all the maps you've played are pre-downloaded in your local computer; so the battle-entry-time will not increase at all.

 

 

 

I hardly doubt that those things will have an effect that you can notice.

 

 

Swifty Smoky posted-

 

 

 

2090 posts

Profile

 

Posted 15 Apr 2017 - 21:35

 

BlackWasp777, on 15 Apr 2017 - 16:58, said:

 

What is the effect on parkour?

 

It will require smaller jumps to get on houses, making parkour easier which is good for beginners

Staying on the roof after landing will become harder because of the slope, and flipped tanks will slide down sometimes so their friend might not be able to shoot them to flip them back in time

The sloped roofs will be like ramps that can be used for jumping between roofs easily and to make many more tricks that involve the special roof shapes

A single player will be able to reach almost every single place in any map with OMP (One Man Parkour), as well as making the "twisted Edge Jump" skill more useful (right now there is only 1 spot in the whole game where it can be used)

A few things that are easy now will become harder (for example having tanks with hammer to shoot a jumper that reaches the roof to redirect him to another roof without landing on the first roof is gonna require another player for the shooters to lean on to not aim down, or will require them to swing on the roof to shoot almost straight don and bounce their bullets off of it into the jumper)

Roofs will become good spots for positioning shooters that have to shoot at an angle of ~45º (both up and down) which can be useful in many tricks

In maps with many close buildings (such as Dusseldorf) it will be possible to jump between almost all buildings even without space mode, making roofs racing more fun and challenging when playing with normal gravity, but in space mode roofs racing will become much easier and boring

Creates a good reason to remove the kill zone in normal battles from the roofs of some buildings that will become easily accessible for everyone, which will add back a nice little element of parkour–fighting

 

I think I covered pretty much everything :)

 

 

SwiftySmoky posted again...

 

 

Just for the curious people out here (and to kill time cause I'm bored), here's the programmatic perspective on the matter:

 

 

 

Will detailed collision affect FPS / game performance?

 

Shortly, not much.

 

More in detail:

 

Making more detailed collision means that the physics engine of the game will have to loop through more surface pieces (roofs will be made out of a few rectangles and triangles instead of a single rectangle) and your computer will have to perform collision checks for each one of them. It might sound like a big deal for maps like Dusseldorf that have tons of houses with fancy roofs in them, but there is a simple and well known technique of splitting the map into chunks so the game will only have to check for collision with what's in the chunk the player is in (or a few more chunks if the player stands at the border between chunks), using this technique means the game doesn't "think" about what's too far from the player so making more detailed collision will have much smaller effect on the game's performance. Also, the same concept could be applied to very complex objects to simplify the collision checks even more - make all the complex objects (that could be made out of hundreds of triangles) have a hitbox (cuboid) that the game will check collision with it instead of the object itself, and then only if it finds out that the player is inside that hitbox then it will check all the triangles of the detailed object. That way the game can completely ignore the complexity of all objects except the ones the player is touching or almost touching. I doubt tanki uses or even needs this technique because they don't have objects with such complex collision anyway, they use mostly simple flat "props" without any structure beyond completely flat surfaces (with the exception of pipes, but they aren't complex either), but I'm mentioning this just to make it clear that complex hitboxes are very much not a big deal for your FPS.

 

 

 

Will it slow down the loading of maps?

 

Shortly: just a few milliseconds, you won't mind it.

 

More in detail:

 

The maps are stored as XML (text) files in your cache, which means you don't have to download them from the server every time so we can just ignore the increase in file size. The loading of the map itself won't change much since it is just 3 numbers per triangle (corner coordinates) that the game has to remember, which is nothing compared to loading all the textures which is what takes most of the time when loading the map.

 

 

 

Will it increase lag?

 

Shortly: nope.

 

More in detail:

 

Two things can increase lag: increasing the traffic (amount of data constantly sent to and from the server), and increasing the server load (the work the game servers have to do).

 

The game has to send larger files to players who download maps, but since most players only download each map once, and most players in the game are long time players that already have these maps downloaded, the server will only have to occasionally send these maps to new players or ones that just cleared their cache, which means it's not a thing that is gonna keep happening constantly on such a scale that could have a meaningful effect on the server load.

 

But you can completely ignore the above paragraph because most maps don't even have enough houses to make a significant difference in the file size.

 

 

 

The game had roofs with detailed collision many years ago, why not anymore?

 

Because it simplifies the process of creating models and decreases the chance of prop design errors. It does count as optimization because it positively affects game performance and traffic, but on such a small scale that it's hard to believe performance has anything to do with the houses not having detailed collision. They simply didn't care about the places they didn't expect players to go, and apparently didn't expect it to block shots that should have hit the target otherwise, so they decided to save some time and effort on the design of the houses.

 

 

The-Game-2017 posted

 

 

Posted 07 May 2017 - 14:47

so u have cube houses and completely precise pipes, house with 2 more parts would cause lag and pipes which have 100 edges dont?

 

 

[Gubitnik 401]

 

 

The-Game-2017 posted

 

 

Posted 07 May 2017 - 14:47

so u have cube houses and completely precise pipes, house with 2 more parts would cause lag and pipes which have 100 edges dont?

 

 

exactly, just look at tanki testing tool and you will understand ;)

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

Posts are taken from this topic- http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=334628&p=5746392 and 15 people liked that idea onision.

I am completely aware of this. What I am saying is that you literally copied and pasted a previous topic which was declined and then wonder why it is declined again.

[r_trooll15 827]

I think that it would be easy to change hitboxes and would make parkour easier

[Gubitnik 401]

 

 

 

 

[Gubitnik 401]

o lol we can stell edit posts