invalid Make overdrive only affect self in CTF to reduce spawn camping

[donut70 97]

The Case:
Not completely sure if it's just because isidas are abusing it. But overdrive affecting teammates seems plain OP in CTF battles. (In DM it's just another supply. TDM the affect is not as bad. CP i have too little data on.)

One team starts to win, this racks up all of their overdrive counters faster. therefore power imbalance begins.

Losing team begins to get killed more often, respawning in new spots and generally having to scramble to find teammates to boost (who for all they know are now too worried about defence to benefit from it) and generally can't multiple the effects. therefore imbalance grows.

Then it proceeds to all out sieging and the overdrive does nothing for the losing team but let them live 2 seconds longer as they get pounded by eternally fully drugged clumps of overdrived siegers.

Honestly if it could be the least bit coordinated. the best tactic is to clump 3-4 guys for defence and 6-7 guys for attack in one big mass together to steamroller through one lane to the flag.
Forget about flanking, decoys, and timing. When you can simply apply 4x the damage the enemy team can reply with. the outcome becomes inevitable.

Unless we want the "meta" to become a speed game over who can tip the scales first (takes as little as 3 minutes in a 10 vs 10) and start the positive feedback loop, we need to reduce it's exponential power.

The Suggestion: 
Make the affect of overdrive change in a ctf to only affect the tank that used it. or as a compromise, ONE additional random tank within range of the original user.

Thoughts?

[Maf 32,326]

Valid

 

I personally don't think this is a problem. If the enemy team is able to coordinate themselves in order to boost each other with overdrives in an organised fashion, then they are simply better than you and deserve the advantage.

[PRZ 34]

Good Luck !

[fordmustang12345 3,910]

This would ruin it completly for team battles

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

This happens in all team battles. Overdrive is an unbalanced mechanic.

[BlackEliteEnemy2 250]

This happens in all team battles. Overdrive is an unbalanced mechanic.

Overdrive isnt so unbalanced. It is true that very better team uses more ods, but they are better at teamwork. If a team got all players using Ods just fo themselves, is that overdrive? Overdrive s just about teamwork.

 

 

Related to topic-> if you disable overdrive to affect everyone near you, that will affect worse team too... Its just, as Maf said, coordination in team.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Actually, as @ThirdOnion said, Overdrive is currently an unbalanced mechanic in all modes, as it leads to what I call an "overdrive chain" in team battles and in DMs the druggers get more Overdrives.

 

I showed in another post how the way Tanki sets up battles cycles down and degenerates into an unbalanced battle many times.

 

Well, going on pause just worsens the plight of those noble fools still flagging on.  Maybe more will go on pause, but that just results in an even more lopsided score and less chance of saviors joining the battle.  In the unlikely scenario where everyone goes on pause, the only result is wasted minutes for everybody.  The economy shouldn't force this choice between "leave and save my own skin" or "stick around to be clobbered in the interest of group-psychology."  The thing is, it's not just your choice to leave- it's how that influences the actions of others, and so forth.

 

What I'm trying to say is that this is an example of bad game design.  You have all these players who could be enjoying themselves running around finding battles or wasting their time in hopeless cases.  When a large portion of your time is spent looking for good battles (which will be ruined), you could be compared to a virus- destroy one battle and move on to the next- and the server becomes a failure.

 

But you have to consider why this is the case.  These battles certainly don't start out lopsided, at least never as much as the battles that end up this way.  I could go into the statistics but generally speaking, a random variation will eventually "spiral down" that is, players leaving.  There's a large chance of that happening, even to a battle seemingly without issues. Then it would take a disproportionate amount of "trials" to get back to the original state (players joining) but most will increase the problem.  For any near-balanced battle, it only takes 1 or 2 players to leave to start that whirlpool effect, and the battle sinks into decay.  This is a fundamental aspect of the way the battle-system and crystal economy is set up.

 

If everyone thought like I did, there wouldn't be an issue.  If everyone thought like you did (go on pause) it would be sort of okay.  But that's impossible.

 

So, it seems, are this game's chances at redemption under the current management.

 

 

 

Here's a thought: Overdrive should charge based on a factor of the Score difference in TDMs.

 

If a battle is tied 0-0, then Overdrives charge at a normal rate.  

 

But if a battle is 9-1 (assuming there is a 10 flag limit), then overdrives for the losing team get a 100% boost in charging speed.  Likewise the winning team gets their overdrives charging 50% slower.

 

If the battle is more balanced, perhaps 3-1, then there is a roughly 25% increase and decrease for the losing and winning teams, respectively.

 

Now, the main issue is that perhaps losing teams will use the faster Overdrives to their advantage and rack up many kills, treating the battle like a TDM, without going for the flags so they can get Overdrives fast and pad their k/d.  But then again, most non-buyers would still rather be a team winning by such a large margin.

 

There is also the point of justice, where if a team can use their overdrives effectively they deserve to win.  However, I believe that sometimes a good team player on the losing team will be losing crystals simply because his teammates can't use their overdrives effectively.  And I believe that countering the issue of slaughterhouses is much more important.

 

The amazing thing about this is that it is always trying to find equilibrium, that the rate of Overdrives is an active factor that increases even as the losing team falls behind.  It's like a pendulum balance mechanic. :)

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

Overdrive isnt so unbalanced. It is true that very better team uses more ods, but they are better at teamwork. If a team got all players using Ods just fo themselves, is that overdrive? Overdrive s just about teamwork.

As said by many other people before, OD creates a positive feedback loop.

[r_Issimo2 1,495]

Only join winning teams, at least until devs remove Overdrive. 

 

The revolution will not be video recorded!

[a7x_Pedro48 13,999]

Besides, soon, the actual overdrive will only be for Dictator. All other hulls will have a different overdrive, like the bomb for Wasp or Invincibility for Mammoth.

[Possibility 282]

Just leave da battle bro. 

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Come-from-behind wins were more common in CP games than in CTF or TDM even before the Overdrive system was added. I tend to agree the OD system has made that worse. That being said I am not sure this is the right approach. The better approach is to create a system which works well in all conditions. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

Under review

 

I personally don't think this is a problem. If the enemy team is able to coordinate themselves in order to boost each other with overdrives in an organised fashion, then they are simply better than you and deserve the advantage.

I think you are assuming the teams start off even every time and in reality it often does not. Team that starts with advantage quickly builds up OD sooner. Once that happens the advantage gets bigger.  Battle decided quickly even if half the time remaining.

 

Overdrive isnt so unbalanced. It is true that very better team uses more ods, but they are better at teamwork. If a team got all players using Ods just fo themselves, is that overdrive? Overdrive s just about teamwork.

 

 

Related to topic-> if you disable overdrive to affect everyone near you, that will affect worse team too... Its just, as Maf said, coordination in team.

OverDrive makes a bad (unbalanced) battle even more unbalanced.  Not necessarily related to teamwork - many reasons for the Imbalance.

 

All Overdrive does it make players on the "losing" team jump ship faster... making it a complete route.  Thank Goodness for the Timer.

[Maf 32,326]

I think you are assuming the teams start off even every time

They will after MM is released.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

They will after MM is released.

Even in hull count but I suspect Wolv meant uneven in overall capabilities.

[Maf 32,326]

Even in hull count but I suspect Wolv meant uneven in overall capabilities.

What do you mean by "overall capabilities"?

[Desty 275]

It is sick how unbalanced games in normal mode currently are. 70% drug anyway, so this is not an issue. But all it takes, is to have 5/10 coordinated people with overdrives and drugs and game  ends up being one sided. Not that I complain it's really good to have this as I play with few selected people always, but end of day, it gets boring killing games all the time.Talking about CTF. Year or two ago I use to say GG every second match, now it's 1/10, when it feels challenging and you get that rush when you have 1 minute left and tied 3:3 - I consider that a good game! Now most games end up 2/10 with 4 mins left.

 

But I think this will change(hopefully), when new and different overdrives will be in game.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

What do you mean by "overall capabilities"?

Equipment quality, supplies availability, willingness to use said supplies, player skill, and so forth. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

They will after MM is released.

You mean system whereby I...

- Can't pick the map?

- might be dropped into a half-finished battle?

- might be placed on a team getting spawn-killed?

- get placed into a battle I don't like, exit, try again only to end up in same battle?

 

No Thanks.  I'll give up the daily/weekly missions and just play Custom Battles when that comes back.

[Maf 32,326]

 

Hopefully not. I'm not sure if developers will deliver, but based on what they described, the MM system will make battles balanced and unlikely to be one-sided. And most of the time you will start from the beginning or join a battle within the first few minutes of the game.

[a7x_Pedro48 13,999]

It does not change the fact that we will not be able to chose the map we want. Wtih that Match Failing system, a lot of players will stop doing their missions.

I don't get why they want to remove all the free battles from the battles list.

Oh yeah, to prevent the mults. I forgot...

But I don't see how it will reduce the number of mults, especially that mults are actually a bigger problem for pro battles.

Because rewards in pro battles are bigger, so noobs clans would use mults more in PB than in free battles.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

If The MM system gives me fun battles I will not mind the random maps. I am willing to see what happens. I cannot say though that confidence is high. 

 

As for the Pro section ... in nearly a year and a half I've seen it full if mindless meatgrinder games and precious little else. Confidence is even lower that the Pro section will make up for a bad MM implementation.  But we'll see what we see.

[RIDDLER_8 5,557]

I disagree with donut70. There is no potential needs to modify the overdrive in CTF battles. The overdrive in CTF battles must remain as normal as within other battle modes.