completed Thunder nerf - too OP

[marc.jp_44 20,837]

A turret should be judged on it's own merits, not on whether or not the user will encounter protection modules against it.

Yes, but that way of judging is also dependent on other things. If there already are a lot of people using Thunder modules, then that inadvertently makes Thunder a lot weaker than its stats actually show.

 

IMO, the only time you'd not take modules into consideration is if someone asks for a nerf to a turret and someone says "if you don't like it, buy a module." In that case, it is wrong to say that if a turret is strong, you can just buy protection.

 

The number of protection modules being used against a turret, however, is applicable and does need to be taken into consideration. 

[sensei_tanker 3,098]

1. Clay, Africa, Emerald, Prodigi LGCs all have decent thunder protection whereas only Zeus and Inferno have good freeze prot. Yes, LGC modules have become less common than they used to be and will continue to become less common, but both Thunder and Freeze have 15 Trio Modules that protect from them so idk where you are seeing all this Freeze prot.

2. Most turrets can kill the thunder or get away from it because of the repair. Also, smoky does not suffer from repair kits like Thunder does because it has a much faster reload time, most noticeable at M3, so it interrupts the health over time much sooner than thunder. Smoky is far superior to Thunder in supply on battles. Railgun and Shaft both have high damage boost alterations that allow them to 2 shot medium hulls, and 3 shot with repair. 

3. You can not escape all the time. ​Sometimes there is nowhere to go but to hold your camping spot or block the road. Continuously backing up means that they can just turn off somewhere else and you lose the kill and probably what damage you did is repaired or healed. You're a trash short range player if you are coming to the forums because you're getting beat up by thunders.

4. Thunder isn't better short range than a good shaft. Thunder has self damage, I don't know why you are saying Thunder is good in short range when you just said to get out of short range at all costs. Shaft does as much damage and often more because of a absence of shaft modules and quick scoping. 

5. Of course they don't. You think I don't know? And no thunder does not pack a decent punch it's nothing. 

1. I was counting ALL paints including LGC (i counted trash stuff like lava and metallic in it too)

2. I personally disagree with smoky being a better option than thunder in drug wars but I guess I can see that way. 

3. You can escape most of the time unless you are in the corner of the map. Honestly, the short-range should be crippled after a couple shots because they are usually light or medium tanks, no matter what 50% thunder module they use, so even holding your ground you should win

4. Shaft scope in short range rotates too slow so people can circle around. The arcade mode does less damage and reloads slower than thunder even with the assault emitters alt on shaft. The self damage to thunder is nothing to worry about compared to its damage output on enemy tanks. Sorry, I mean "better THAN short range". 

5. So this point is not viable

[wolverine848 13,097]

Yes, but that way of judging is also dependent on other things. If there already are a lot of people using Thunder modules, then that inadvertently makes Thunder a lot weaker than its stats actually show.

 

IMO, the only time you'd not take modules into consideration is if someone asks for a nerf to a turret and someone says "if you don't like it, buy a module." In that case, it is wrong to say that if a turret is strong, you can just buy protection.

 

The number of protection modules being used against a turret, however, is applicable and does need to be taken into consideration. 

 

Those without need to buy a module in order to find it "normalized"?

 

Sorry, I can't agree.

[sensei_tanker 3,098]

Thunder is not OP. It used to be able to kill Wasp in 2 shots, Hornet, Hunter, and Viking in 3 shots, Dictator and above in 4 to 5 shots. Now it takes 3 shots for light hulls and 4 for mediums. If you get in close they're dead. If they really bother you, buy a Thunder protection, it helps.

It still 2 shots light hulls (3 shots far away)... but no matter where you go, I have to counter-drug double armor because every single thunder at there carries double power, which means your wasp can be gone by the tap of a space bar. 

 

I can't stress this enough. THUNDER SELF DAMAGE IS NOTHING COMPARED TO ITS DAMAGE OUTPUT ON ENEMIES.

[Amagi 1,728]

Thunder is the kind of gun that's really strong until you put on even the slightest protection module against it, then it becomes a slow peashooter.

[mhh.2000 888]

i was just playing DM with thunder . it's so annoying that everyone has protection against it , my shot always gets cut down by about 25% (depending on the tank i'm up against ) , it's bad enough you can't have a full damage shot . but i still managed to climb to the 2nd place in that game . nerfing thunder is not necessary since it's not op in higher ranks . maybe adding some balance to thunder in the lower ranks is needed . 

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Thunder, just by looking at its stats, does not look that menacing. However, thunder is one of those weapons where it has the most optimal damage and reload speed to destroy most hulls quicker and more efficient than other turrets. 

 

What I mean is that a double power thunder can one shot wasp or hornet, an instant space bar press and that's a kill. It's reload speed is much faster than that of a railgun, and railgun cannot one shot these hulls anymore either without double power.

 

Now, thunder against medium hulls will take 2 hits for them to kill with double power. 2 thunder shots takes about the same time as 1 railgun shot. Railgun with double power cannot destroy these hulls in one shot, making thunder the much quicker killer.

 

Thunder against heavy hulls will take 3-4 shots to kill with double power. Railgun will take 2-3 with double power. Again, 2 thunder shots = 1 railgun shot based on time spent so thunder will be much quicker. 

 

Thunder can fire off 2 shots in the time it takes a shaft to fully charge up scoped, making thunder the quicker killer. Thunder outranges all the turrets that has a higher dps than it, allowing thunder to possibly not take any damage from higher dps turrets (firebird, freeze, isida, hammer). Thunder has a higher dps than any other non-short range turret. 

 

Not to mention, it has splash damage. Which allows it to get many kills at once many times. 

 

You may be thinking that thunder is only useful with double power, so you can simply drug double armor to counter. Well, its dps no matter what will still be higher than everything it doesn't outrange, which makes it still OP. 

I agree 100%

At my ranks, 4 out of 7 enemies use Thunder because of its OP-ness.

But what about Striker? Striker has a far higher DPS than Thunder, and longer range.

But....it's harder to aim with Striker.

Thunder's shells instantly hit the enemy upon firing.

Striker's missiles need to travel.

Thunder is the kind of gun that's really strong until you put on even the slightest protection module against it, then it becomes a slow peashooter.

I have 14% Thunder protection, yet I still think Thunder is unaffected by the module.

(I still get 4-shotted)

Thunder is the weakest gun in non pro battles without a doubt.

No its not.

At my rank, 3 out of 4 Thunder users drug.

It is really annoying.  :angry:

thunder is very weak and most of the player has protection against thunder 

I disagree 110%

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Really? Why hasnt this been declined already? Thunder is fine

Really? Do you think its annoying when a Thunder shoots at you and your Twins, Ricochet, and Firebird don't have the range to take him down?

[aizatt 32]

Under review

 

On high ranks it's already nerfed because everyone uses thunder modules. I would love to use it more, but the only reason I don't is because it's too weak. Making it even weaker would totally ruin the turret.

You should declined this ideas because every player have their own playing skills. As all players know magnum is the strogest and annoying turrets in this game. There are a few advantages and disadvantages when you use Thunder and Railgun.

 

Thunder:                               Railgun:

Shoter time taken                Longer time taken 

to reloading.                         to reloading.

 

Mid Ranged turret.              Long Ranged turret.

 

Have Splash Damage            No Splash Damage and 

and Self-Damage.                 no Self-Damage.

 

Trash Alerations.                 Great Alterations.

 

 

 

 

P/S: Sorry for using colored text because if i use the normal color many player will not read this :D

[aizatt 32]

I am a railgun and thunder player and both turrets is really great and no reason why its need to be nerf.

 

Modules can't be make as a reason why it should be nerf. Its depends on the play if they want to use it or not.

[TakeAShower 300]

You should declined this ideas because every player have their own playing skills. As all players know magnum is the strogest and annoying turrets in this game and thunder. There are a few advantages and disadvantages when you use Thunder and Railgun.

 

Thunder:                               Railgun:

Shoter time taken                Longer time taken 

to reloading.                         to reloading.

 

Mid Ranged turret.              Long Ranged turret.

 

Have Splash Damage            No Splash Damage and 

and Self-Damage.                 no Self-Damage.

 

Trash Alerations.                 Great Alterations.

 

 

 

 

P/S: Sorry for using colored text because if i use the normal color many player will not read this :D

I agree. Railgun is made for the "peek-a-boo" technique. Thunder can be played like this, or like a Smoky or Twins, out in the open. Thunder is a bit of an all-rounder. Railgun also has unlimited range, while Thunder does half it's max. damage after a relatively short distance. Thunder can be beaten by a Railgun at point-blank range, due to self-damage. Though Thunder does have a higher damage-per-second, as mentioned by the topic creator, that does not matter as Railgun is not made for that kind of gameplay.

[KILL_BILL_CHAUHAN 2,505]

A turret should be judged on it's own merits, not on whether or not the user will encounter protection modules against it.

 

I could turn this around and say...

If so many people are using protection modules against it - maybe the reason is that it is OP.

In my opinion the reason why most of the people use thunder is simple. Before game re-balance thunder was the first m3 which one can buy in a kit (I think bulldozer kit). So people just play and MU thunder and it is easy to play turret. 

[sensei_tanker 3,098]

Only the next modification can two shot light hulls. If you are going to include drugs in your argument, then your main point becomes that drugs are OP, and not Thunder. I can say that Railgun is OP because it one-shots my Viking on DD, but that would not be so much the fault of Railgun as of supplies.

 

You can stress that, sure, but a Thunder confronted by tank at short range is more often than not a dead Thunder.

Railgun doesn't DD 1-shot medium hulls anymore, unless with the OP modification. Drugs aren't OP because everyone has enough drugs now to counter-drug. *overdrive is OP but im not here to complain in this thread* Either ways, both DD cripple their entended tank no matter what, however thunder is an instant and it couple splash many other tanks in the process. Both have their own separate OP uses with DD, but personally I feel like thunder is the stronger one because in the tap of a space-bar you are crippled and in another second, you are dead. Railgun has to deal with that reload time or 100000 crystals for the one shot. 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Railgun doesn't DD 1-shot medium hulls anymore, unless with the OP modification. Drugs aren't OP because everyone has enough drugs now to counter-drug. *overdrive is OP but im not here to complain in this thread* Either ways, both DD cripple their entended tank no matter what, however thunder is an instant and it couple splash many other tanks in the process. Both have their own separate OP uses with DD, but personally I feel like thunder is the stronger one because in the tap of a space-bar you are crippled and in another second, you are dead. Railgun has to deal with that reload time or 100000 crystals for the one shot.

 

Look, if you think that thunder is "so OP", then why not just buy an m3 version of it and play with it for an hour or two?

[mhh.2000 888]

Railgun doesn't DD 1-shot medium hulls anymore, unless with the OP modification. Drugs aren't OP because everyone has enough drugs now to counter-drug. *overdrive is OP but im not here to complain in this thread* Either ways, both DD cripple their entended tank no matter what, however thunder is an instant and it couple splash many other tanks in the process. Both have their own separate OP uses with DD, but personally I feel like thunder is the stronger one because in the tap of a space-bar you are crippled and in another second, you are dead. Railgun has to deal with that reload time or 100000 crystals for the one shot. 

maybe thunder and railgun are the most powerful and most-used turrets in the game , but we both know that each one has its separate uses . for instance , in big maps like highways thunder is useless because it deals very little damage , which is where railgun and shaft thrive and (naturally) take the top 3 spots in the team . thunder is also weak in small maps like ping pong or island because of the self-damage it does . medium maps are thunder's arenas , this is where it becomes powerful and effective . as for railgun it works fine in all maps except for the small ones because it does not keep up with the continuous  damage that firebird , isida , and freeze do .

 

However , this thread is not meant to be a comparison so I think i made my point , but let's be clear on something , if all thunder users use DD that does not make thunder OP , it makes DD OP . to judge fairly go to pro battles without supplies , you'll find it interesting that there are not as many thunders there as in non-pro battles 

[sensei_tanker 3,098]

maybe thunder and railgun are the most powerful and most-used turrets in the game , but we both know that each one has its separate uses . for instance , in big maps like highways thunder is useless because it deals very little damage , which is where railgun and shaft thrive and (naturally) take the top 3 spots in the team . thunder is also weak in small maps like ping pong or island because of the self-damage it does . medium maps are thunder's arenas , this is where it becomes powerful and effective . as for railgun it works fine in all maps except for the small ones because it does not keep up with the continuous  damage that firebird , isida , and freeze do .

 

However , this thread is not meant to be a comparison so I think i made my point , but let's be clear on something , if all thunder users use DD that does not make thunder OP , it makes DD OP . to judge fairly go to pro battles without supplies , you'll find it interesting that there are not as many thunders there as in non-pro battles 

i compared thunder DP against other turrets DP and thunder imo stands out the most. 

Look, if you think that thunder is "so OP", then why not just buy an m3 version of it and play with it for an hour or two?

I'm sorry, but not everyone is a pay to win. 

[mhh.2000 888]

I'm sorry, but not everyone is a pay to win. 

it might not be any of my business but as far as I know i am not a buyer and i still managed to get thunder M2 and it's 4/10 right now and i still got more than 200k crystals to finish the job . you just need to be patient and collect crystals :)

[NamesAreForNoobs 324]

1. I was counting ALL paints including LGC (i counted trash stuff like lava and metallic in it too)

2. I personally disagree with smoky being a better option than thunder in drug wars but I guess I can see that way. 

3. You can escape most of the time unless you are in the corner of the map. Honestly, the short-range should be crippled after a couple shots because they are usually light or medium tanks, no matter what 50% thunder module they use, so even holding your ground you should win

4. Shaft scope in short range rotates too slow so people can circle around. The arcade mode does less damage and reloads slower than thunder even with the assault emitters alt on shaft. The self damage to thunder is nothing to worry about compared to its damage output on enemy tanks. Sorry, I mean "better THAN short range". 

5. So this point is not viable

1. All right, I guess it's fair to count all modifications and ranks, although thunder has a very late m1 unlock rank and strong m1 stats so I don't hold this opinion for m1 ranks and same for m2. 

3. Again we've got a ranks issue. Most people use Viking with short range in high rank non pro battles and most people sneak up from behind rather than just straight on driving which yes backpedalling can counter but still, you do lose your kill once they turn off if you backpedal too far. 

4. Shafts can't defend themselves if they cant one shot. Thunder can't one shot. Thunder's self damage dooms it against anything that gets close to it. 

5. Fire/Freeze/Isida have zero need for impact force because they have rotation speed and damage and can defeat the majority of what theyre fighting infront of them. So this argument isn't viable. 

[sensei_tanker 3,098]

I would like to throw this point on the table:

 

Thunder is easily the most overused turret (besides isida). If it is the worst turret in the game, why does everyone use it? 

[mhh.2000 888]

I would like to throw this point on the table:

 

Thunder is easily the most overused turret (besides isida). If it is the worst turret in the game, why does everyone use it? 

no one said it's the worst , and it is overused indeed . but that's not because of it being OP . it's just that it fits in most maps , and can be used in so many different ways , which makes it extremely flexible .

but you actually have a point there , a turret being OP is only judged by how much that turret is seen in the game .

[eminem9870 605]

I don't agree. I feel like you would have to fix everything else. Because what turret can't destroy both Wasp and Hornet easily? I don't think thunder is the gun that needs to be nerfed.

[lukey0 27,543]

I don't agree. I feel like you would have to fix everything else. Because what turret can't destroy both Wasp and Hornet easily? I don't think thunder is the gun that needs to be nerfed.

Agreed. Any turret kills Wasp easily. Its a light hull. 

[meir1 55]

yea. .  thunder is awesome :), but SO many people have protection against it. . .

 

also its funny i see this because i saw another topic saying all other turrets are more op than thunder lol. . . 

[LittleWillie 3,199]

The fact a lot of ppl use modules against a certain turret is a strong indicator that turret is considered a bigger threat than most. Or IAW OP.

 

I do not think Thunder itself is all that OP that it needs a full-court nerf. Maybe some fiddling around the edges.

 

But OTOH I wish splash damage was toned down throughout the game. Tone down splash across the board and most ppl would not worry too much over Thunder. (I use Striker but I still think splash is too OP in TO.)

[sensei_tanker 3,098]

Agreed. Any turret kills Wasp easily. Its a light hull. 

I'm just sitting here using freeze/firebird/isida and never be able to reach the wasp.