declined Parkour Veteran Paint

[Guest]

Just to let you know I am in GTT for over a year

Just to let you know, I've tried to get into eSports and have participated in unofficial replicated tournaments. It was hard and I found it to be pretty boring since I used to lose all the time. I'm still currently in a clan and still trying to get into eSports. Being a parkourist too I can say both communities cannot be compared, and those who do compare them or think they can clearly aren't experienced enough. Also, as I said on a previous post in this topic already, there are lots of people with average Parkour abilities getting into these official clubs anyway either by luck for normal players, by being a helper or by being well known for something else. There are very few pros.

[Lankbouv 6,347]

Just to let you know, I've tried to get into eSports and have participated in unofficial replicated tournaments. It was hard and I found it to be pretty boring since I used to lose all the time.

Exactly, you lost a lot, yet you gave up.  In MOP you lose and you can repeat the trick))) You put finger on the exact reason Parkour is too easy. A parkour veteran would have to be judged only on live competitions.

[Jens 96]

Exactly, you lost a lot, yet you gave up.  In MOP you lose and you can repeat the trick))) You put finger on the exact reason Parkour is too easy. A parkour veteran would have to be judged only on live competitions.

Like it has been said a million times. Parkour veteran doesn't have to be given in the same way the normal veteran is given.

[Lankbouv 6,347]

 Parkour veteran doesn't have to be given 

Agreed

[Jens 96]

Agreed

Just stop, if you hate the whole parkour community, don't post such comments

[Guest]

Ehh, the OP says winning things such as MOP multiple times, there are no parkour tournaments that hard to win.  Nevertheless, if tournaments became more like MOP *FINALS*, I would support such a paint in the distant future, but no one has won anything under that pressure much at all yet, not even SwiftSmoky.

In case you're not up-to-date with Parkour-related contests, there is already one called Aerobatics in the registration stage in the RU community which is just that. A lot of people in the EN community from the official and supported clubs have already registered to take part in it. Also, I don't agree that parkour tournaments are easy, it takes time, dedication and good equipment to win. Skills and creativity too in some cases. A lot more creativity-based parkour contests are being made currently. The Parkour community is still receiving more attention, not everything can be changed right away, but changes are being made, it's just that you may not be noticing them.

Exactly, you lost a lot, yet you gave up.  In MOP you lose and you can repeat the trick))) You put finger on the exact reason Parkour is too easy. A parkour veteran would have to be judged only on live competitions.

Erm... I did not give up...

 

I'm still currently in a clan and still trying to get into eSports.

In MOP you lose and you can repeat the trick)))

You lose the contest then repeat the trick? I'm confused. That's like saying you lose an eSport tournament then practice more with that specific equipment, which I see nothing wrong in and is perfectly normal.

[Lankbouv 6,347]

In case you're not up-to-date with Parkour-related contests, there is already one called Aerobatics in the registration stage in the RU community which is just that. A lot of people in the EN community from the official and supported clubs have already registered to take part in it. Also, I don't agree that parkour tournaments are easy, it takes time, dedication and good equipment to win. Skills and creativity too in some cases. A lot more creativity-based parkour contests are being made currently. The Parkour community is still receiving more attention, not everything can be changed right away, but changes are being made, it's just that you may not be noticing them.

Erm... I did not give up...

You found it boring, so you implied you'd given up and became a parkourist or at least changed focus.

 

Also, "it takes time, dedication and good equipment to win" < this is exactly the point.  Everyone can have time dedication and good equipment.  The fact that skill is only needed in "some cases" as you said is ridiculous.

[Jens 96]

In case you're not up-to-date with Parkour-related contests, there is already one called Aerobatics in the registration stage in the RU community which is just that. A lot of people in the EN community from the official and supported clubs have already registered to take part in it. Also, I don't agree that parkour tournaments are easy, it takes time, dedication and good equipment to win. Skills and creativity too in some cases. A lot more creativity-based parkour contests are being made currently. The Parkour community is still receiving more attention, not everything can be changed right away, but changes are being made, it's just that you may not be noticing them.

 

Exactly, also.. Parkour survival isn't that easy, look at last year, only 7 teams (each 5 people) received a paint.

[Guest]

You found it boring, so you implied you'd given up and became a parkourist or at least changed focus.

Yes, I found it boring since I kept losing, but I didn't say I quit it for that reason. That's just my opinion on eSport although I knew if I improved I'd have a better P.O.V which is why I'm still currently in a clan.

 

Being a parkourist too

I did not change focus or revert to being a parkourist, I was always a parkourist.

 

The fact that skill is only needed in "some cases" as you said is ridiculous.

Yes, because I'm agreeing with you that MoP isn't as hard as it's not just about Parkour skills and creativity but about editing skills too and recording quality. I'm agreeing with your previous post, what are you confused about?

[Guest Maserati]

I have to agree with Spy on this one, not necessarily Lankbouv but most of his points are valid. I won MoP 2016 finals & 2017 finals both first place, and Parkour Survival. I didn't go in for number 1, just for fun. Parkour shouldn't be taken too seriously, let alone they already gave how many special paints for parkour? Quite a number to be honest..
 
Let's add up how many eSports paints there are: Star, Gladiator, Acid, Bronze, Silver, Gold, Impulse, Veteran. That's 8.
For Parkour: Traceur, MoP 2016, MoP 2017, Sky, Sky v2 (Soon), and Aerobatics. That's 6, but if you add up Phoenix, Aero and Glide that totals up to 9.
 
When, eSports is much more competitive, some people go in for fun, but a lot of people play for the competition. This is where some arrogance comes in :D and makes eSports much more engaging to see who will win (my opinion, yours could be different)
 
 
There's already a Parkour Hall of Fame, if you aren't aware.  And some people have Aero and Phoenix, it's like having both Silver and Gold, enough absurdity already

---

Edit:
 

Edit: btw, you should ask parkour clubs how much time they spend to make a single video.

GTT published 4-5 videos in 1 month last year, just depends on activity and dedication really...

[Lennard 3,270]

When, eSports is much more competitive, some people go in for fun, but a lot of people play for the competition. 

Exactly the same as parkour.

[Guest Maserati]

Exactly the same as parkour.

Doesn't change the remaining points

[Guest]

When, eSports is much more competitive, some people go in for fun, but a lot of people play for the competition. This is where some arrogance comes in :D and makes eSports much more engaging to see who will win (my opinion, yours could be different)

Parkour is becoming competitive too. It doesn't help if players call it useless because to some people it's a lot more fun and interesting. What players who are more fond of eSports say about Parkour, parkourists could say the same about eSports.

 

There's already a Parkour Hall of Fame, if you aren't aware.  And some people have Aero and Phoenix, it's like having both Silver and Gold, enough absurdity already

At the moment, no official club really has players who all in it are pros, there are a lucky few in there too who managed to somehow get their hands on such paints, for some possible reasons I've listed in a previous post. If I stayed in F&F just a month longer before the last time I had left it, I would've received Phoenix. I'm no parkour pro, I'm just a lucky guy who was able to get into the club but managed to make a small name for myself. Just because I would've had Phoenix wouldn't mean I deserved it.

[Guest]

Let's add up how many eSports paints there are: Star, Gladiator, Acid, Bronze, Silver, Gold, Impulse, Veteran. That's 8.

For Parkour: Traceur, MoP 2016, MoP 2017, Sky, Sky v2 (Soon), and Aerobatics. That's 6, but if you add up Phoenix, Aero and Glide that totals up to 9.

You forgot eSport paints aren't permanent and aren't obtainable only once. Parkour paints are, and new ones will obviously be made to be handed out to winners of future contests... There's many differences between the two communities as I've said numerously already.

[Jens 96]

 

GTT published 4-5 videos in 1 month last year, just depends on activity and dedication really...

I have my own opinions about GTT, in my eyes they don't spend that much time and effort like other clubs. Wich you can see on the originality and difficulty of the tricks. (own opninion before i get bombarded with hate) 

[Guest]

I have my own opinions about GTT, in my eyes they don't spend that much time and effort like other clubs. Wich you can see on the originality and difficulty of the tricks. (own opninion before i get bombarded with hate) 

I once gave constructive feedback just over a year ago or so regarding how rushed one of their montages were but in return got hate. Understandable thinking I may be attacking you being from another club but feedback is there to be taken into consideration and to be worked upon, especially when the person giving it wasn't even trying to mess with you.

[SwiftSmoky 8,445]

Ehh, the OP says winning things such as MOP multiple times, there are no parkour tournaments that hard to win.  Nevertheless, if tournaments became more like MOP *FINALS*, I would support such a paint in the distant future, but no one has won anything under that pressure much at all yet, not even SwiftSmoky.

 

Before you read this: it has nothing to do with the idea of parkour veteran paint, only a reaction to a few related things that Lankbouv said here.

 

I never liked these finals, ever since they were first announced I said it's a game of luck and not skill, because parkourists are not tested for their capabilities in performing difficult tricks that others wouldn't be able to complete successfully. and even worse - it is relying only on who lands first which depends a lot on luck and on preparing easy tricks ahead of time. One can land a trick in the first try and then spend the next hour failing to repeat it, while the other won't be so lucky and will land only on the 10th try, but will land 5 more times during this hour but his higher success rate won't be noticed because the finals look at a too small sample of time to measure the success rate, so it's just luck and choosing easy tricks.

 

If you look at the first finals at my team, you'll see we landed a very hard trick pretty fast (link) and later did worse on a much easier trick. If you say parkour is so easy you can try to repeat that trick to see for yourself, how long will it take you to finish a trick we finished in about one minute. Or you can blame luck which agrees with the reason why the finals are a bad way to decide who's the best.

 

Skill in parkour is measured in 2 things:

• Ability to perforn difficult tricks (even if it takes a long time to land it)
• Success rate (not how fast, but how often someone succeeds in a trick)

The harder the trick gets, the ability to perform the trick becomes more important and the success rate becomes more negligible. And the opposite is true when the trick gets easier. Why? because if someone takes forever to land an easy trick then he's a noob, but if someone is trying to do a very hard trick he will always have a very low success rate, especially when working with a team where there is randomness because every team mate does something different every time, and lag also can have a big effect on some tricks, so just the fact that he can pull this trick off already says something.

 

There are a few areas in parkour where players can show their skill better, for example in OMP (One Man Parkour) you don't depend on other people nor on lag, there are no excuses if you fail and a success rate of over 50% is achievable. Another such thing (which is sadly dead now) is Parkour Fighting - using parkour to gain advantage in battles. You either succeed or don't, you have to notice the chance to use parkour, react to it in half a second and succeed in it in the first and only try you get. Here you can see a good example of a parkour fighter's skill and reaction while being busy with the flag. Sadly I don't have a lot of footage from the old parkour fighters battles, but I hope you get the point, parkour fighters trained for very long in a very particular parkour style, the parkour you see nowadays got too much in it to master everything. Except very specific parkour styles, the time it takes to succeed depends on luck, not skill.

 

So if you want to judge a group of parkourists by their skill, the best thing you can do is watch the videos they create and see how difficult their tricks are, and not everything is as easy/hard as it looks so unless you tried enough yourself you can't be a good judge of what's harder, so saying that you don't do parkour because it's easy only proves that you didn't get to the hard part of parkour.

[Guest Maserati]

Parkour is becoming competitive too. It doesn't help if players call it useless because to some people it's a lot more fun and interesting. What players who are more fond of eSports say about Parkour, parkourists could say the same about eSports.

 

At the moment, no official club really has players who all in it are pros, there are a lucky few in there too who managed to somehow get their hands on such paints, for some possible reasons I've listed in a previous post. If I stayed in F&F just a month longer before the last time I had left it, I would've received Phoenix. I'm no parkour pro, I'm just a lucky guy who was able to get into the club but managed to make a small name for myself. Just because I would've had Phoenix wouldn't mean I deserved it.

Same with all team winning esports paints, you can always have a person who gets carried by a team and wins. You don't have to be pro or not.

Mmm, not going to lie, Parkour used to be fun few years ago. It was just for fun, 

 

You forgot eSport paints aren't permanent and aren't obtainable only once. Parkour paints are, and new ones will obviously be made to be handed out to winners of future contests... There's many differences between the two communities as I've said numerously already.

Yeah, eSports aren't permanent. So it makes it much more logical for veteran. If MoP paints weren't permanent, then perhaps a "parkour veteran" would be more suitable, but it's not the case unfortunately

 

EDIT:  Liking with your alts? Lost cause...

I have my own opinions about GTT, in my eyes they don't spend that much time and effort like other clubs. Wich you can see on the originality and difficulty of the tricks. (own opninion before i get bombarded with hate) 

Well, there was a lot of drama between GTT, I won't go into too much detail. But OR, incredibly creative, this is one of the videos:

 

 

 

 

I think most OR members left GTT, or have gone inactive. But, they are still awesome minded, especially the bugatys

Then in MoP, GTT won because of stealing other's tricks and doing easy tricks? This man knows it all, though I was talking about the past.

But then again, you can't satisfy everyone :D some people prefer green grapes over red grapes, and vice versa.

[akiket 402]

Far less dedicated? Try to produce the stuff we do in the same time frame as us. I'm not talking about any random Parkour club, try to replicate the sort of stuff F&F and NGU do. We spend 2-3 hours per hard trick, and have 15-20 of each per montage. I've once spent 5-6 hours straight on just doing 1 trick. Almost 20 hours at max on 1 trick spaced out over a few days. Moreover, creativity takes time too to think about.

Hey, dude, don't take it personal. Really. Please don't. I don't wanna start a fight again. In my opinion, parkourists in general are less dedicated than eSports players. That's all.

 

I think most OR members left GTT, or have gone inactive. But, they are still awesome minded, especially the bugatys

Bugatys are the best!!  :wub:

[Jens 96]

 

Well, there was a lot of drama between GTT, I won't go into too much detail. But OR, incredibly creative, this is one of the videos:

 

 

 

 

I think most OR members left GTT, or have gone inactive. But, they are still awesome minded, especially the bugatys

Then in MoP, GTT won because of stealing other's tricks and doing easy tricks? This man knows it all, though I was talking about the past.

But then again, you can't satisfy everyone :D some people prefer green grapes over red grapes, and vice versa.

oh yes, i totally agree on that one, OR is a god when it comes to parkour and you can see that on the video you mentioned there. But nowadays (idk if OR is still in) i don't think OR has a function in GGT, not the function he had before anyways. And thats why the videos of GTT are "less good" i would say. But we shouldn't discuss either GTT is good or not here, so i'm going to leave it by this. 

[Lankbouv 6,347]

 

So if you want to judge a group of parkourists by their skill, the best thing you can do is watch the videos they create and see how difficult their tricks are, and not everything is as easy/hard as it looks so unless you tried enough yourself you can't be a good judge of what's harder, so saying that you don't do parkour because it's easy only proves that you didn't get to the hard part of parkour.

You should read what am I saying which is that the famous parkourists like you do great videos which I enjoy but take ages and multiple attempts to achieve them.  Veteran parkour paint should only be given when someone can do it in a pressured situation as fast as someone else and my point is TO has not yet standardized its parkour assessment.  Parkour is not really worthy for a veteran paint anyway IMO, in the sense that I wouldn't give Tanki artists any paint either like Veteran.  Veteran has specific connotations, and what Parkourists can also get in paints is enough.  Parkour is great in videos, like the F&F videos, and as someone who played TO since 2012 and eSports, F&F videos were one of the few I have ever enjoyed.  You deserve your paint for it, but not a Veteran paint like eSports has.

 

And your arbitrary measurements of success are incorrect.  The speed someone can do it has to be included, not just their success rate and definitely not the difficulty of the trick alone.  What you are suggesting is like giving XP youtubers who can do spin  shots the eSports Veteran paint.

 

These live events definitely test the skill, and such events are the only way to objectively test the 2 important parts of parkour: 1) How hard the trick is 2) How quickly they can achieve it .  Your point about their reliability of doing it is tested in how quickly they can do it.  That's the only feasible way to put it into a live stream.  

 

Also, it is ridiculous to say that the difficulty of tricks is crucial if someone takes ages to perform it.  Or, if you want to say that it doesn't matter how long, because videos are like that, then fine, I am okay with that.  But it is therefore not a competitive objective sport for competition which deserves a Veteran paint.

[Lankbouv 6,347]

(and parkour is easy because you can try a 1000 times and make an epic video, if you mess up in eSports, it's all over)

 

The only part of parkour that is not easy is being tested on a stream

[SwiftSmoky 8,445]

You should read what am I saying which is that...

 

Before you read this: it has nothing to do with the idea of parkour veteran paint, only a reaction to a few related things that Lankbouv said here.

You try to convince me about the veteran paint, which I didn't talk about. I talked about how bad livestream are in measuring a parkourist's skill.

 

I never felt pressure in mop finals, I succeeded a super hard trick in one minute and then failed a 5 times easier trick, if the livestream is so good for testing skill how did I do worse according to it on a way easier trick?

If you succeed a trick once every 20 minutes on average, the first success can be the first try or the 20th. Only when the time given is long enough to let people finish the trick several times then you can see the success rate but as you said:

 

...tested in how quickly they can do it.  That's the only feasible way to put it into a live stream.

Livestreams are just not good for testing the success rate, nothing is, except watching the parkourists for very long which would be very boring for any contest. So what's left to measure is the ability to perform difficult tricks that others aren't capable of, and that is why the first stage of mop is the best part, there people show that they can do tricks that others can't.

[SwiftSmoky 8,445]

(and parkour is easy because you can try a 1000 times and make an epic video, if you mess up in eSports, it's all over)

 

The only part of parkour that is not easy is being tested on a stream

In eSports the probability of a well trained player who mastered this game to perform good is very high, so you don't feel the effect of success rate, in parkour such a high success rate is unachievable so the success rate can't be ignored

[Lankbouv 6,347]

In eSports the probability of a well trained player who mastered this game to perform good is very high, so you don't feel the effect of success rate, in parkour such a high success rate is unachievable so the success rate can't be ignored

 

You've got no idea what you're talking about. ahahah this is one of the funniest things I've heard.  It's too basic to refute